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Author Topic: 🔓 Lock.com - Software isolation will replace the hardware wallet [PREVIEW]  (Read 2164 times)
Pmalek
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September 03, 2026, 03:28:19 PM
 #101

Yes, this is obtainable. Some software providers keep certain parts and patches of their software in private repositories for specific reasons

You may want to read this from Exodus
Quote
Although Exodus is built on many open-source components, there are components of Exodus that are not open-source.

Exodus publishes some open-source work used in Exodus on GitHub. You can view the source code, history, and continually published updates by visiting: Exodus Movement.
https://www.exodus.com/support/en/articles/8598678-is-exodus-open-source?
Exodus Wallet isn't open-source regardless of what their people claim or not. Unless something has changed, you can't build the binaries yourself using publicly available code. A partially open-source app, where some components are open-source while others aren't can't be classified as open-source software. Ledger used to do that and called themselves open-source. The firmware that runs on each hardware wallet of Ledger is closed-source. They conveniently avoid to mention this. Their native Ledger app and the coin apps that you need to install on your device are open-source, but that's not enough. When you consider the entire package, it's closed-source software.

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oll
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September 04, 2026, 10:10:27 AM
 #102

I went back to take another look at Lock’s activity on X and I’d like to say that the earlier assumption that their account posts automatically is incorrect. They comment on crypto‑related events several times a day, leaving their responses under the news of other crypto communities and projects. Or they simply sometimes comment on the thoughts of Bitcoiners and traders. For example, right now it seems that there was a hack of Multiple Avici, and Lock.com is expressing sympathy for such situations in the comments. Indeed, I have the feeling that wallet and service hacks have become the new reality.
The hacks we are seeing now are the negative sides of AI. Most loopholes in firmwares of hardawre wallets being compromised and software wallets loop-holes are all AI-driven bug detection being exploited. It's good these things are coming now and ColdCard is taking these into account prior to their launch, so they know areas constantly exploited and how to tighten security of their clients assets.

It turns out that not all modern hacks and thefts from hardware wallets are related to AI these days. You may have heard that yesterday news came out about the largest lawsuit, worth 500 million, filed by victims of a long‑ago Ledger hack. And now the representatives of this hardware wallet will need to defend their reputation, even though there are many victims and huge sums were stolen from each of them. And all of this is due to a database hack in 2020. For the Lock team, this is another opportunity to remind the community about their new technological solution in comparison with “hardware” methods.

Ashawowo(OS)
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September 04, 2026, 10:49:04 AM
 #103

Yes, this is obtainable. Some software providers keep certain parts and patches of their software in private repositories for specific reasons

You may want to read this from Exodus
Quote
Although Exodus is built on many open-source components, there are components of Exodus that are not open-source.

Exodus publishes some open-source work used in Exodus on GitHub. You can view the source code, history, and continually published updates by visiting: Exodus Movement.
https://www.exodus.com/support/en/articles/8598678-is-exodus-open-source?
Exodus Wallet isn't open-source regardless of what their people claim or not. Unless something has changed, you can't build the binaries yourself using publicly available code. A partially open-source app, where some components are open-source while others aren't can't be classified as open-source software. Ledger used to do that and called themselves open-source. The firmware that runs on each hardware wallet of Ledger is closed-source. They conveniently avoid to mention this. Their native Ledger app and the coin apps that you need to install on your device are open-source, but that's not enough. When you consider the entire package, it's closed-source software.
Yeah, actually we were differentiating between an open code and an open-source earlier and exodus happens to fall into the category of open code. Most essential components are hidden in private repositories, so we cannot call it open-source, but an open code, but I didn't see it as to be totally categorized as close source. However, another wave of thought have flashed through my mind while I read your write-up.

Is there such situation whereby a wallet provider making every component of their code base (including the binaries) public, but restricting the legal rights of it being reproduced? This is to be more precise in my categorization between open code and closed source.

It turns out that not all modern hacks and thefts from hardware wallets are related to AI these days. You may have heard that yesterday news came out about the largest lawsuit, worth 500 million, filed by victims of a long‑ago Ledger hack.
I saw the newsflash in my notification panel during my off-screen time, I'll visit it later and revert. It is really worth discussing.

Dareo
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September 04, 2026, 11:37:22 AM
 #104



While checking my email today, I got an update from Lock.com. They recently had a meeting with security researchers and developers about self custody at the Berlin Blockchain Week. And that might be why they haven't been able to provide regular updates on this thread. When I first got the email I thought I might have gotten early access, but no it was just an update. But even though it's not a huge update, the team is actually interacting with the community at various events, which is nice. Now let's see what kind of updates they come up with for their software.

Pmalek
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September 04, 2026, 04:39:14 PM
 #105

Yeah, actually we were differentiating between an open code and an open-source earlier and exodus happens to fall into the category of open code.
The Exodus Wallet belongs to the category of closed-source software. If you can't build it from source and you can't use the codebase freely, it's closed-source.

Is there such situation whereby a wallet provider making every component of their code base (including the binaries) public, but restricting the legal rights of it being reproduced?
What you are describing is the way Coldcard works. Their code is publicly verifiable but they don't have an open-source license. So even if the code is there for public scrutiny, it doesn't fulfil the criteria to be called open-source. You can't use their codebase, add to it, and create your own product. However, you can do that with Trezor's code if you wanted to. That's because Trezor, unlike Coldcard, is open-source software.

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September 04, 2026, 05:17:30 PM
 #106

I received an email from the team. I used AI to compare why they are promoting that their wallet will be better than a hardware wallet. I am posting a screenshot of what the team is building differently. I am not so much into wallets and their logic. I request those who are good with it to look into the comparison sheet.



I have included a direct link to the screenshot. Clicking it will take you to the detailed image since the width of the screenshot is quite large.

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September 04, 2026, 06:40:22 PM
 #107

I received an email from the team.
...

Hmm, email? But for what purpose?
Did you also join their early access at the initial stage? Because if you received an email regarding this matter, than i have not received any email till now. Because I had also requested/joined early access a long time ago. Can you tell me something more about what the email was about?

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Pmalek
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September 05, 2026, 07:27:38 AM
 #108

I received an email from the team. I used AI to compare why they are promoting that their wallet will be better than a hardware wallet. I am posting a screenshot of what the team is building differently. I am not so much into wallets and their logic. I request those who are good with it to look into the comparison sheet.
None of that matters until and unless Bitcoin's consensus changes to adopt the post-quantum signatures that Lock.com wants to work with. Lock can make their software safer but they can't get rid of ECDSA on their own and have those changes apply to the entire network. Bitcoin right now doesn't know what to do with their ML-DSA signature scheme and won't recognize it. Even if Lock.com is or becomes quantum-safe tomorrow, the Bitcoin network isn't because it relies on legacy signatures that aren't quantum-safe. Lock's developers, staff, whatever... can say whatever they want, but if they want to send bitcoin on the Bitcoin blockchain today, they can only do so by using legacy signature schemes and not post-quantum ones.

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September 05, 2026, 11:51:40 AM
 #109

~
Yes, I did, and if you are using Gmail, then check the Promotions tab. I saw that mail there.
~~
Your reply gives me a clear understanding what actually is being promoted and the reality. Thanks for the deep dive into the comparison table.

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September 05, 2026, 02:34:21 PM
 #110

None of that matters until and unless Bitcoin's consensus changes to adopt the post-quantum signatures that Lock.com wants to work with. Lock can make their software safer but they can't get rid of ECDSA on their own and have those changes apply to the entire network. Bitcoin right now doesn't know what to do with their ML-DSA signature scheme and won't recognize it.
That’s a good point. the term usually implies that the wallet is quantum-safe unlike standard hardware wallets, meaning the client's funds are secure on their end. I still don't understand how new seed will be stored, given that their current system makes it difficult to write down on paper.

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September 06, 2026, 07:39:41 AM
 #111

That’s a good point. the term usually implies that the wallet is quantum-safe unlike standard hardware wallets, meaning the client's funds are secure on their end.
You still need strong foundations and that's the blockchain. If there will ever be a quantum threat, it's the blockchain that needs to be made robust. A quantum attacker isn't going to try to break the security of your Lock.com wallet. They don't need to if the network protecting your stash, my stash, and all other bitcoins isn't secure.

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September 06, 2026, 01:00:31 PM
 #112

While checking my email today, I got an update from Lock.com. They recently had a meeting with security researchers and developers about self custody at the Berlin Blockchain Week. And that might be why they haven't been able to provide regular updates on this thread. When I first got the email I thought I might have gotten early access, but no it was just an update. But even though it's not a huge update, the team is actually interacting with the community at various events, which is nice. Now let's see what kind of updates they come up with for their software.
So everyone who gave their email for early access received the same email. Thanks for sharing it here, otherwise many might not have noticed it. They gave important details about their timeline, and these updates are important for the community to know where the project currently stands.


Their Berlin presence is really very meaningful, because they need investors, that's what they are telling us, and these events can bring them great exposure because these events in just one week can help them build great relationships within the developer community rather than just marketing to retail investors.

The real talks always happen over coffee, not on stage. In this industry, most of these collaborations are also formed in informal settings.
It's great to know that they have made some partnerships as well, because this transparency will determine the confidence.


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batang_bitcoin
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September 06, 2026, 01:10:09 PM
 #113

While checking my email today, I got an update from Lock.com. They recently had a meeting with security researchers and developers about self custody at the Berlin Blockchain Week. And that might be why they haven't been able to provide regular updates on this thread. When I first got the email I thought I might have gotten early access, but no it was just an update. But even though it's not a huge update, the team is actually interacting with the community at various events, which is nice. Now let's see what kind of updates they come up with for their software.
I also checked my email and received the same email so it's for all of those who have been listed for the early access. Will wait for further updates about the product itself and I think that we'll have it in a couple of weeks on how it goes after all of these participations they went.

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kizilhare
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September 06, 2026, 01:16:24 PM
 #114

I received an email from the team.
...

Hmm, email? But for what purpose?
Did you also join their early access at the initial stage? Because if you received an email regarding this matter, than i have not received any email till now. Because I had also requested/joined early access a long time ago. Can you tell me something more about what the email was about?

I had signed up for early access quite a while ago, but I received an email on September 4th.
The content of the email was a promotion for Lock.com; I didn't receive any notification confirming my inclusion in the early access program.
I have started following the Twitter account.
Since I received the promotional email, I assume I'll get emails about early access and the like from now on. For the time being, that is the only communication I've received.

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September 07, 2026, 02:56:39 PM
Merited by joker_josue (2), Dareo (1)
 #115

[UPDATE] Lock beta status and answers to the main technical questions

Hi all,

There have been a lot of thoughtful questions in this thread, particularly around the signing boundary, comparisons with offline Electrum, the scope of our post-quantum claims, and how the architecture will be validated.

The team has been focused on moving Lock into beta and internal testing, so this is a good point to bring the main answers together and provide a current status update.

CURRENT STATUS

Lock is now in beta and internal testing, with early access coming shortly.

The rollout is planned in stages:

  • Wallet and Treasury first
  • Node following soon after

This is a release sequence rather than a change to the reference architecture. Lock remains designed around three cooperating roles: Treasury, Wallet, and Node.

The exact operating-system and CPU architecture matrix for the first packaged release is still being finalised. We will publish that once the release builds are locked.

We also do not currently support Bitcoin testnet3 or testnet4.

Several people here asked for Bitcoin testnet support because they understandably do not want to evaluate preview wallet software with mainnet funds. That is a useful point, and we want to be clear about the current limitation.

WHAT TREASURY ACTUALLY IS

Some of the earlier discussion used the phrase "Treasury OS", which has created an understandable impression that Lock is developing a new operating system.

That is not the architecture.

Treasury is the signing application and security boundary. In the intended high-security deployment, it runs on commodity hardware as a dedicated air-gapped or internet-isolated signing device.

It uses the underlying operating system and the protections available on that platform. The implementation includes platform-specific hardening paths for Windows, macOS, and Linux, including process and debugger restrictions, core-dump controls, machine-bound key protection, and, where configured, a separate Vault daemon running under another OS user.

Lock is therefore not attempting to build and maintain its own kernel, hardware drivers, or general-purpose operating system across arbitrary devices.

There is also an important distinction between air-gapped and internet-isolated use.

A fully air-gapped Treasury uses a deliberate physical transfer workflow. An internet-isolated Treasury may communicate over a constrained local or physical transport while remaining unable to make general public-network requests.

In Lock's default strict-egress posture, Treasury does not call public blockchain RPCs or other public internet services. Those network-facing responsibilities sit outside the signing boundary.

Treasury can still accept an approved Wallet connection over Lock's authenticated and encrypted protocol. The transport moves the data; the application protocol establishes the trusted session.

The aim is not to claim that an offline device is invulnerable. Removing public-network access greatly reduces the remotely reachable attack surface, but privileged compromise, malicious firmware, kernel or hypervisor attacks, physical access, side channels, and poor recovery practices remain relevant.

The security objective is containment and a smaller blast radius.

WHAT WE MEAN BY A "SMALL" TREASURY

When we describe Treasury as small, the important property is not a tiny line count.

The more precise word is narrow.

Treasury owns seed handling, key derivation, signing policy, and signing. Those are substantial responsibilities and there is meaningful implementation behind them.

What Treasury does not need to own is equally important.

Public RPC integrations, provider aggregation, market data, transaction tracking, and the other noisy network-facing systems live outside it. The Node is the largest subsystem in Lock because it absorbs most of that public blockchain complexity.

The objective is to keep seed-dependent operations within the smallest practical privilege and trust boundary.

The current whitepaper does not publish a Treasury-only line count, so we are not presenting one.

HOW THIS COMPARES WITH OFFLINE ELECTRUM

A Bitcoin-only setup using an offline Electrum signer and a separate online watch-only wallet is already a strong custody model.

Lock is not based on the premise that this setup is ineffective.

The difference is the surface over which Lock is trying to preserve the same general isolation principle.

The architecture separates:

  • Treasury: seed storage, derivation, signing policy, and signatures
  • Node: public-chain connectivity, providers, tracking, and other network-facing work
  • Wallet: presentation, orchestration, and user intent
  • Vault daemon: optional additional isolation of the device key under a separate OS user

In the high-security deployment, Treasury can live on a dedicated device while Wallet and Node remain outside the signing boundary.

That becomes particularly relevant for users who want active self-custody across a broader surface: multiple chains, swaps, bridges, Lightning, messaging, storage, and smart-contract interactions.

The goal is to prevent those additional functions from gradually pulling the seed into the same environment that handles the everyday interface and public network.

For someone who only needs Bitcoin cold storage and already operates an offline Electrum setup correctly, Lock has to earn its place through the released product rather than through an architectural slogan.

DOES LOCK MAKE HARDWARE WALLETS OBSOLETE?

Our thesis is that, for a meaningful share of active self-custody, an isolated software Treasury running on a dedicated device can replace reliance on a proprietary hardware-signing peripheral.

That does not mean every hardware wallet is insecure or no longer useful.

Hardware wallets solved a real problem and remain an effective way to narrow key-extraction risk, particularly when the user wants a simple and well-understood signing device.

Lock is testing a broader custody model in which key isolation is combined with:

  • Separate signing, UI, and network roles
  • Signing policy and parameter limits
  • Public-network isolation for Treasury
  • Authenticated communication between components
  • Signed update verification
  • Optional Vault isolation of the device key

Within that model, "safer" has a specific meaning:

  • Compromising the Wallet should not directly expose the seed
  • Compromising the Node should not by itself authorise a spend
  • Compromising a transport should not reveal signing keys

Those boundaries do not make every component harmless when compromised.

A fully compromised and already-authorised Treasury remains dangerous. If an attacker extracts the seed itself, Lock's signing policy cannot stop it being used outside Lock.

The architecture is designed to force an attacker across several boundaries rather than allow one compromised component to inherit every secret and authority.

OPEN CODE, TESTING, AND INDEPENDENT REVIEW

Another important distinction raised in the thread is the difference between code being available and code being independently audited.

Nobody should be expected to personally review an entire wallet codebase before using it.

The Lock whitepaper is an implementation-authored description of the system, its trust boundaries, and its known limitations. It is not an independent security audit, and it is not a formal isolation proof.

The tests described in the paper establish particular invariants under particular conditions. They complement, rather than replace:

  • Independent security review
  • Hostile-host testing
  • Fault injection
  • Live-network interoperability testing
  • Operational security assessment

We are currently selecting independent audit partners.

Once internal testing is complete, we will update the public repository. Repository and licensing details will be published alongside that update.

The security argument has to be supported by inspectable implementation, reproducible testing, and external scrutiny.

WHAT "QUANTUM-SAFE" MEANS IN LOCK

Lock does not make Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, or any other existing blockchain quantum-safe.

On-chain transaction signatures remain whatever each blockchain's wire format and consensus rules currently require.

The cryptography Lock can control is its own internal and off-chain protocol layer.

Selected Lock-controlled paths use hybrid classical and post-quantum constructions:

  • X25519 + ML-KEM-768 for hybrid key establishment
  • Ed25519 + ML-DSA-65 for hybrid digital signatures

Under the intended constructions, defeating only the classical component or only the post-quantum component is insufficient.

The whitepaper applies these hybrid primitives to long-lived Lock-controlled surfaces including Wallet-to-Treasury and Wallet-to-Node channels, selected authentication paths, and chat envelopes.

SLH-DSA is also implemented as a separate stateless hash-based signature option. It is deliberately standalone rather than paired with a classical signature.

The term "quantum-safe" therefore applies to selected Lock-controlled off-chain protocols.

It does not mean:

  • Every cryptographic operation in Lock is hybrid
  • Existing blockchains have become quantum-safe
  • Endpoint compromise is no longer relevant
  • Recovery risk has disappeared
  • Lock is "quantum-proof"

WHAT HAPPENS IF BITCOIN'S CRYPTOGRAPHY IS BROKEN?

That remains a Bitcoin-level migration problem.

Lock cannot independently change Bitcoin's consensus signature scheme.

If a sufficiently capable quantum computer made secp256k1 practically breakable before Bitcoin migrated to a resistant signature system, affected funds would inherit that chain-level risk regardless of which wallet produced the transaction.

Lock can protect the communications and protocol identities whose cryptography it controls.

It cannot override the cryptographic rules of an external blockchain.

That boundary is deliberate and is stated explicitly in the whitepaper.

THE UNIVERSAL QUANTUM SEED

UQS addresses a different part of the long-term security model: generation, transcription, and recovery of the wallet's root seed.

The 36-word UQS format encodes 272 bits of entropy and includes a 16-bit checksum.

Its derivation pipeline is:

Code:
HKDF-Extract
-> PBKDF2-SHA-512
-> Argon2id
-> HKDF-Expand

The operating-system CSPRNG is the security floor.

Timing measurements, scheduling jitter, and optional user input provide supplemental diversity. They are not treated as seven independently strong entropy guarantees.

UQS uses 256 visual icons mapped consistently across 42 language tables. The same icon sequence can therefore be recognised and re-entered through different localised labels.

Recovery does not depend on a Lock server.

The seed backup is the recovery root. The machine-bound device key protects local state, but it is not the user's ultimate backup. If the local device protection is lost, the intended recovery path is to restore from the seed and rebuild the protected local state.

Lock also supports importing conforming BIP-39 seeds.

UQS is not based on a claim that properly generated BIP-39 seeds are suddenly unsafe or that existing users need to migrate immediately.

It is a more conservative default chosen for newly created Lock wallets.

BIP-39 also has a much more mature ecosystem of independent recovery tools. As UQS documentation and tooling are published, independent recovery and interoperability will need to be part of its review.

WHERE WE ARE NOW

To bring the current position together:

  • Lock is in beta and internal testing
  • Early access is coming shortly
  • Wallet and Treasury are planned to launch first
  • Node will follow soon after
  • Bitcoin testnet is not currently supported
  • The exact first-release OS and CPU matrix is still being finalised
  • Independent audit partners are currently being selected
  • The public repository will be updated after internal testing
  • The whitepaper documents the implementation and its trust assumptions; it is not an independent audit

We will also keep this thread updated directly as the beta, documentation, repository, and review process progress.

Please keep challenging the assumptions and the boundaries. That is why we brought the architecture here before release.

Cheers,

Lock
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September 07, 2026, 03:01:27 PM
 #116

I received an email from the team.
...

Hmm, email? But for what purpose?
Did you also join their early access at the initial stage? Because if you received an email regarding this matter, than i have not received any email till now. Because I had also requested/joined early access a long time ago. Can you tell me something more about what the email was about?

I also left my email in the field for early access testers on their website, but I haven't received any email yet. Although it seems to me that it would be logical to receive an answer: "your application will be reviewed as soon as a new stage of wallet testing begins. It is possible that you will participate." I was calm, knowing that my application had worked. Well, it's okay, we'll wait until we get letters about approved testing applications in the third quarter of this year. Who knows, maybe we'll be the ones who stand at the threshold of something great. I personally love being a beta tester. This feeling of being a pioneer is always exciting and wonderful.

[UPDATE] Lock beta status and answers to the main technical questions

Wow, guys! We so glad to see your post!  Shocked

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September 08, 2026, 03:49:55 AM
 #117

HOW THIS COMPARES WITH OFFLINE ELECTRUM

A Bitcoin-only setup using an offline Electrum signer and a separate online watch-only wallet is already a strong custody model.

Lock is not based on the premise that this setup is ineffective.

The difference is the surface over which Lock is trying to preserve the same general isolation principle.
Thanks for this follow-up on your older reply.

So basically, the difference is; Lock is "modular" using only the necessary features that it needs in each specific device, no more no less;
while Electrum has to use the full binary even in the air-gap machine where its other features aren't required.

Honestly,
It's not something that will make me switch my existing setup but its other features are worth checking out.

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September 08, 2026, 09:04:15 PM
 #118

[UPDATE] Lock beta status and answers to the main technical questions

Hi all,
We will also keep this thread updated directly as the beta, documentation, repository, and review process progress.

Please keep challenging the assumptions and the boundaries. That is why we brought the architecture here before release.

Cheers,

Lock
Thanks for the update team. The whole concept is very easy and hard at the same time. I understand the architecture, but I hope the final product is simple enough that a non-technical person can actually use it

I understand the main components, and the most important one is treasury, so not that everything you said is hard, but just asking, can a teenager be able to understand it all?

For treasury, you are not depending on any kind of hardware wallet, so let's see how it turns out to be. I am excited. Transparency about the audit makes me believe it even more. I can see it becoming either something too big or at least not too small. The concept of the whole thing is understandable. What I tried to say in the start is that I hope it turns out to be user friendly.
Also did any of the investors on that event asked this question? Asking for a friend  Wink


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September 10, 2026, 01:06:45 PM
 #119

I received an email from the team. I used AI to compare why they are promoting that their wallet will be better than a hardware wallet. I am posting a screenshot of what the team is building differently. I am not so much into wallets and their logic. I request those who are good with it to look into the comparison sheet.
I have included a direct link to the screenshot. Clicking it will take you to the detailed image since the width of the screenshot is quite large.
This is a misinterpretation of the email, lock was only sharing insights from their meetups with builders, security researchers and blockchain experts in Berlin, Germany. They had several discussions on the future of blockchains when quantum threats becomes very real, they were just sharing their findings on the best possible approach.

None of that matters until and unless Bitcoin's consensus changes to adopt the post-quantum signatures that Lock.com wants to work with. Lock can make their software safer but they can't get rid of ECDSA on their own and have those changes apply to the entire network. Bitcoin right now doesn't know what to do with their ML-DSA signature scheme and won't recognize it. Even if Lock.com is or becomes quantum-safe tomorrow, the Bitcoin network isn't because it relies on legacy signatures that aren't quantum-safe. Lock's developers, staff, whatever... can say whatever they want, but if they want to send bitcoin on the Bitcoin blockchain today, they can only do so by using legacy signature schemes and not post-quantum ones.
Lock is positioning itself to contain quantum computing threats and not trying to change bitcoin blockchain or trying to do away with ECDSA ahead of bitcoin or all of that. Lock is more about better protecting access to user funds from within the wallet and positioning itself to quickly adapt to quantum threats, that should be the unique niche they project, more like preparing critically for the future from the present. They have made it clear that they're not guaranteeing to protect funds from blockchain limitations.

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September 10, 2026, 07:11:28 PM
 #120


THE UNIVERSAL QUANTUM SEED

UQS addresses a different part of the long-term security model: generation, transcription, and recovery of the wallet's root seed.

The 36-word UQS format encodes 272 bits of entropy and includes a 16-bit checksum.
It is more secure than the current 12-word BIP system; however the 36-word UQS visual icon format implies that the seed backup must be stored digitally. Is there any way to write it down on a piece of paper, or must it be kept in digital form?

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