Gambling Discussion has been ruined — action is needed

[stompix]

Since you can't control other users' behaviour, you have to change your own behaviour.

Yeah good choice
- wear bulletproof vest in schools cause we can't enforce gun laws
- teach your wife sex with strangers is good cause we can't send rapist to jail
Any more marvels like this?

[Mia Chloe]

Any more marvels like this?

Since you can't control other users' behaviour, you have to change your own behaviour.

Wanna know what disgusts me the most concerning posts that complain about the endless spam in the gambling board? it is the fact that it is always same empty discussions every now and then. They just complain and complain and talk bad about it and in the end nothing changes and that makes me wonder what exactly is the reason for the complaints in the first place.

Just like in previous threads, i always ask what next? yeah we know the board is full of spam so what exactly are you guys gonna do about it the only reasonable and quick to think of solution is to make moderation there stricter and all they can do to assist is to report low quality.

[khatarnak]

I also agree. Reporting is a largely thankless task and new mods rarely get added these days so it is probably a waste of time to most users. I do think there should be some small rewards for high reporters as an incentive to keep reporting though. Reporter badges with perks, or maybe high reporters are entered into a monthly/yearly raffle with bitcoin prizes.

The main issue is that people do not take the Gambling Discussion board seriously anymore.

The same people who spend all day posting on Meta, Politics or Off-topic also post on every sports thread because it is easy to make another post.

Reporting these posts is not really a solution.
It becomes a matter of deciding which user to report and which one to ignore.
Feels like it's about the person, rather than solving the problem.

Look at the Mining board for example
If people open threads like :

"Is mining profitable these days?"
"Do you mine while sitting on the toilet?" 
"Would your wife leave you if you mined?"

Those threads would get laughed out of the board because people still see Mining as a technical board.
These types of threads would not go on for 20 pages in three days.

The problem is that people do not treat Gambling Discussion the same way they treat the technical boards.
It doesn't feel like a board for bettors anymore. It just feels like another place to meet a posting quota.

_________________________

One idea that might help is having a few permanent sticky threads dedicated to betting discussion.

Something like:

- Betting Strategies
- Value Betting & EV Discussion
- Finding Value Bets

These discussions would always be visible, not getting lost on page 10 after a couple of days because of low-effort threads.
At least people who actually bet would know where to go for a proper discussion.
It also makes reporting much easier, because it would no longer feel like you are picking and choosing which users to report.

[DubemIfedigbo001]

Okay, I know alright that there are lots of spam in the gambling board, but there surely exists some useful discussions as well. I'm only pissed when I see another less informative thread about gambling addiction and I think the Mods should tighten their crackdown on such kind of threads.

The gambling board isn't as messed up as you think, I think most people who get there care less about reporting useless posts spotted there, it's still the duty of users to use the report to moderator button when they see such posts. I think before anybody complains bitterly, they should be able to indicate how many posts they reported in that section as a contribution to sanitizing the board.

I scan the board for valuable information and when I see one, I contribute. There are still good posts there.

[coinlary]

~snip~

Well, I think reporting can be made every users job .

But how? Simple, the same way theymos tried to combat spam.

Hear me out:

Merit was created to reduce spam, right? So why not create a system where a certain number of valid reports earns a user a sigle merit airdop? Or dependg on how valuable a report is, moderators handling such reports could reward users with a fraction of a merit. It doesn't necessarily have to equal one full merit, but a one-merit reward could also be possible imo.

Reports could also have different weights depending on rank, board, topic type (mega threads), merit, etc. I mean, coming up with a formula shouldn't be that difficult.

I'm sure this would definitely help since reports are anonymous anyway . There might even be a need for more moderators f9r reviewing if the report chart  starts indicating  spikes.

[stompix]

Hear me out:
Merit was created to reduce spam, right? So why not create a system where a certain number of valid reports earns a user a sigle merit airdop? Or dependg on how valuable a report is, moderators handling such reports could reward users with a fraction of a merit. It doesn't necessarily have to equal one full merit, but a one-merit reward could also be possible imo.

On a forum where:
- people ask questions with their alts then reply with their main account immediately to gain merit
- people make alts and post AI spam that they report with their main account to gain merits

You want to reward with merits for reporting spam based on quota?

Trust me, it will make things 10x worse!

[Lida93]

Wanna know what disgusts me the most concerning posts that complain about the endless spam in the gambling board? it is the fact that it is always same empty discussions every now and then. They just complain and complain and talk bad about it and in the end nothing changes and that makes me wonder what exactly is the reason for the complaints in the first place.

Just like in previous threads, i always ask what next? yeah we know the board is full of spam so what exactly are you guys gonna do about it the only reasonable and quick to think of solution is to make moderation there stricter and all they can do to assist is to report low quality.

Actually nothing really changes that much even if the complains is to be coming every now and then and they'd because gambling board alone gives one of the highest volume of traffic to the forum, more than any other board in the forum even though it doesn't seem like that was what the forum was particularly created for.

But then, look around the service board and tell me how many signature campaigns are there that ain't about gambling and compare it to the ones that are gambling (casinos) sig campaigns. Each of those signature campaigns makes it compulsory for a weekly quota that must go to gambling section, hence even when a user doesn't have anything meaningful to say he still has to write something to fulfil obligation. So now do you still think anything much can really be done?

[nutildah]

I mostly agree with you. There is some decent sports discussion, but it's drop in the ocean compared to the noise of people just churning out lazy nonsense.

Yes there is definitely some worthwhile discussion happening in that section. I sometimes appreciate it and will be back when the NFL season starts, enjoying the camaraderie of our NFL thread, discussions, predictions & contests, etc. Saying its all bad would be an overstatement.

I think an appropriate question to ask is how do we separate "good faith" conversation from lines of text constructed simply to add to a post tally?

Ideally there are some objective metrics we can use that when summed as a whole can paint a picture of a user's general behavior on the forum. Some simple ones might be

- posts deleted/made ratio
- average depth of post in thread (deep depth indicates consistent megathread posting)
- burst posting frequency
- something involving merits

So while each metric doesn't necessarily mean anything by itself, all 4 metrics taken together could be capable of producing a "good faith" posting score, or something like that. And this score could be used to implement some kind of corrective action.

[Majestic-milf]

 The gambling board is regarded as the section with the most number of spam. I'm just coming from there and I've seen very unnecessary posts being created which should have originally being paired with other existing posts but I guess the creators felt since its a different topic, it should be created separately.
 You can find good posters in that section but doing that is like finding a needle in a haystack. I prefer that instead of whining about the ruin of that board, you rather do your bit by posting quality and not promote spam.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Wanna know what disgusts me the most concerning posts that complain about the endless spam in the gambling board? it is the fact that it is always same empty discussions every now and then. They just complain and complain and talk bad about it and in the end nothing changes and that makes me wonder what exactly is the reason for the complaints in the first place.

Has anyone stopped to think about what would happen if strict moderation were applied to the gambling sections?

Most campaigns require a minimum number of posts in those sections. If posts and threads started being deleted left, right and centre, there would be a flood of complaint threads on Meta.

I sometimes see locked threads there that could have been trashed and I suppose this has something to do with it.

[PrivacyG]

Has anyone stopped to think about what would happen if strict moderation were applied to the gambling sections?

Most campaigns require a minimum number of posts in those sections. If posts and threads started being deleted left, right and centre, there would be a flood of complaint threads on Meta.

I sometimes see locked threads there that could have been trashed and I suppose this has something to do with it.

I am sorry but the most stupid thing Staff can do is let spam be only because there are signature campaign quotas to meet.  If deleting B S posts makes them disqualified for the week then GREAT.  AWESOME.  AMAZING!  Maybe it makes everyone finally write things that are actually useful and well thought.

Please tell me a legitimate reason why this Topic should not be trashed or archived considering this subject has been discussed probably every single week since the existence of the Gambling discussion Board,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5588037.0

Being kicked out of a signature campaign once myself for burst posting, it made me feel so guilty and bad about myself that it really made me think and change my behavior immediately.

[Btcdeybodi]

IMHO, i will suggest that there should be dedicated threads for sporting events and casino events why other threads that talks about gambling addiction and stories about gambling should be scrapped. It's annoying when you see repeated threads about gambling addictions but those threads that discusses sports events like boxing, rugby, cricket and football matches should be allowed.

[LoyceV]

Has anyone stopped to think about what would happen if strict moderation were applied to the gambling sections?
Most campaigns require a minimum number of posts in those sections. If posts and threads started being deleted left, right and centre, there would be a flood of complaint threads on Meta.

Many users complained when Merit was introduced, but eventually they got used to it. Let them complain about their spam being removed!

Being kicked out of a signature campaign once myself for burst posting, it made me feel so guilty and bad about myself that it really made me think and change my behavior immediately.

I wouldn't adjust my posting habits for any campaign. If the campaign manager doesn't like "burst posts", he should just not pay for those, instead of removing the user.

A staff member of his own volition could spend all day every day deleting spammy threads in sports discussion and it wouldn't make a dint in it and they're unlikely to be financially compensated unless there's reports on those posts/threads so it also would be a waste of time

So you're saying Mods only get paid if they act on Reports, not if they do a good job keeping their board clean on their own? If that's the case, shouldn't the whole "payment system" be adjusted? Mods shouldn't feel that it's a thankless task to clean up "their" board.

[stompix]

Ideally there are some objective metrics we can use that when summed as a whole can paint a picture of a user's general behavior on the forum. Some simple ones might be

- posts deleted/made ratio
- average depth of post in thread (deep depth indicates consistent megathread posting)
- burst posting frequency
- something involving merits

So while each metric doesn't necessarily mean anything by itself, all 4 metrics taken together could be capable of producing a "good faith" posting score, or something like that. And this score could be used to implement some kind of corrective action.

Hmm, good in theory, bad in BTT practice
1)  Yup, this one I agree with
2)  Nope, they will just open topic after topic and only post on the first page, too easy to manipulate, for example, WO guys would be at a disadvantage just because you want genuine conversation
3)  Nope, they can simply wait and post from a different account meanwhile,  won't mean much as most of them have ready-to-go posts anyhow always funny how I  see guys posting about a team match that happened two weeks ago instead of the current one that just ended
4)  Yeah...maybe... hmmm

Has anyone stopped to think about what would happen if strict moderation were applied to the gambling sections?
Most campaigns require a minimum number of posts in those sections. If posts and threads started being deleted left, right and centre, there would be a flood of complaint threads on Meta.

Oh no!!!! You know the really bad outcome of this?
Signature managers will find out a ton of their sigs are seen only by spammers! That is the shit that is under the rug right now!

[libert19]

...

- average depth of post in thread (deep depth indicates consistent megathread posting)

What's wrong with posting in mega threads? If particular mega thread is spam, just trash it otherwise don't consider posting there wrong.

...other threads that talks about gambling addiction and stories about gambling should be scrapped.

Gambling addiction topics are so frequent, I am sure nobody on this forum needs awareness about it anymore. As for stories, they are fine, personal stories are always welcome but I often wonder how many stories posted there are are actually real.

It's annoying when you see repeated threads about gambling addictions but those threads that discusses sports events like boxing, rugby, cricket and football matches should be allowed.

Agree but not sure about different topics on same sports. I don't know man, shouldn't there be one single topic to discuss football instead of separate topics about each league? I can take it and see some justification, but I still wonder.

[Btcdeybodi]

It's annoying when you see repeated threads about gambling addictions but those threads that discusses sports events like boxing, rugby, cricket and football matches should be allowed.

Agree but not sure about different topics on same sports. I don't know man, shouldn't there be one single topic to discuss football instead of separate topics about each league? I can take it and see some justification, but I still wonder.

NO, it's not possible to have discussion about football matches in a single thread. Football has different leagues, if every discussion about football is done is a single thread that is where you will see the real spamming and random discussions about football. It will really be a mess if all discussion about football is made in a dedicated thread.

[Free Market Capitalist]

It's annoying when you see repeated threads about gambling addictions but those threads that discusses sports events like boxing, rugby, cricket and football matches should be allowed.

Agree but not sure about different topics on same sports. I don't know man, shouldn't there be one single topic to discuss football instead of separate topics about each league? I can take it and see some justification, but I still wonder.

NO, it's not possible to have discussion about football matches in a single thread. Football has different leagues, if every discussion about football is done is a single thread that is where you will see the real spamming and random discussions about football. It will really be a mess if all discussion about football is made in a dedicated thread.

I agree. Following that logic, all discussions about Bitcoin should be consolidated into a single thread.

[coinlary]

Trust me, it will make things 10x worse!

Yeah. with that specific point , I trust you  

Agree but not sure about different topics on same sports. I don't know man, shouldn't there be one single topic to discuss football instead of separate topics about each league? I can take it and see some justification, but I still wonder.

It won't work. We already have users complaining about threads reaching thousands of pages. Imagine combining every football discussion into one thread. You should expect nothing less than 50k pages before mid-season lol.

We have the UEFA CL, La Liga, Premier League, Serie A, Bundesliga, national leagues (grouped together as "National"), transfers and speculation, friendlies, international breaks, and so on.

You're suggesting this because you're trying to reduce spam, but trust me (just like stompix said to me ), it'll make things 50x worse. Posts will easily go out of scope, and there'll be no such thing as making a good post in tje such thread anymore.

[LTU_btc]

I am sorry but the most stupid thing Staff can do is let spam be only because there are signature campaign quotas to meet.  If deleting B S posts makes them disqualified for the week then GREAT.  AWESOME.  AMAZING!  Maybe it makes everyone finally write things that are actually useful and well thought.

Yeah, I don't see any problem if Meta would be filled with complaints thatsomeone didn't reached their sig. campaign quota because of deleted posts. It's their problem, not ours and I don't give a shit about it.
Like said above, when Merit system was introduced, Meta also was full of complaints that Merit system ruined their life and so what. Eventually forum turned into a bit better place.

What's wrong with posting in mega threads? If particular mega thread is spam, just trash it otherwise don't consider posting there wrong.

Everything is wrong about it. Nobody doesn't read what was written above, people just repeat what was already said many times and there is no real discussion.

Agree but not sure about different topics on same sports. I don't know man, shouldn't there be one single topic to discuss football instead of separate topics about each league? I can take it and see some justification, but I still wonder.

Not sure it's serious suggestion or not, but how you imagine such thing. Discussing everything from EPL, CL, La Liga  to transfers and various lower tier leagues. It would be something awful. 10-15 pages each day filled with mix about everything. There won't be any discussion, it will be just some kind of chatbox.

[Woodie]

What I think happened...when m*xers were banned, what was left on BCT is 75% of gambling related services and signatures which pushed alot of users into unfamiliar territories and people were forced to talk about gambling because the users are required to post  in gambling boards by their sigs or are just are advertising for such a product and they need to walk the talk... and also maybe because people don't even gamble in the first place and only gamble by text not risking any money on the line..