Signature Ban Appeal and Q&A : appeal your sigban here

[hosemary]

I'm trying to find a way to do this as unbiased as possible, and even though there's a large potential backlog of candidates, its probably better if I do something closer to random sampling.

This is great.

I'm really glad about theymos' decision. I've been waiting for something like this for a long time and I believe you are an excellent choice for the role. The forum needs to get rid of spammers.
I am pretty sure I will agree with almost all your decisions, even if you make them entirely on your own. However, I still would like to see a transparent process with a clear criteria. Otherwise, every signature ban can lead to a never ending debate. Everyone should respect your final decision, though.

Now that you are going to make the process more transparent, I am sure the system will become better and better over time and I hope it serves its purpose well.

[bangjoe]

But I have a little question about the points to focus on in the violations that are made, I think this should be clearer, such as if Bob violate only one of all that is prohibited, then how long the punishment will be given, we need clearer criteria about any law in the forum, or maybe it depends on the subjectivity of the assessor?

How about not doing any of those things, and that way not having to worry about getting signature ban?

Of course it's better and that's what we all hope for, but people's perspectives may be different and we need clearer criteria and transparency, as hosemary said, because otherwise there will be a lot of questions about the same thing going forward in the appeal.
Looks like the OP will update it in the coming days on this.

So far I've seen 4 banned members:

Why I am not surprised that 3/4 are Stake members. 

Anyway, I am glad that theymos decided to try something new to fight the spam, and most importantly he couldn't chose the better person to do it.

That's a good first step.
I also welcome it very much, as it will change over 90% of how people make posts on forums (if they read this thread).

BTW I've created a thread about this on my local forum so that it becomes a special attention as important information that needs to be spread. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5588955.msg66962618#msg66962618
I hope other local forums do as well, as it's rare for people to come to read what's on Meta.


Update on members whose signatures were banned, I hope nothing was missed.

No	|	User Names	|	Rank Forum	|	Last Signature	|	Ban Expiration Date	|
1	|	virasog	|	Hero Member	|	Stake Campaign	|	January 16, 2027, 07:46:00 AM	|
2	|	Akbarkoe	|	Legendary	|	Stake Campaign	|	July 15, 2027, 07:33:04 AM	|
3	|	fuguebtc	|	Hero Member	|	Stake Campaign	|	January 16, 2027, 07:30:09 AM	|
4	|	topbitcoin	|	Hero Member	|	Kikabet Campagin	|	January 16, 2027, 07:31:02 AM	|
5	|	tygeade	|	Legendary	|	Bitz.io Campaign	|	January 16, 2027, 11:58:40 PM	|
6	|	FanEagle	|	Legendary	|	Bitz.io Campaign	|	January 16, 2027, 11:59:55 PM	|
7	|	Danica22	|	Full Member	|	Stake Campaign	|	January 17, 2027, 12:01:00 AM	|
8	|	Farhan99	|	Hero Member	|	Rainbet Campaign	|	July 16, 2027, 12:02:07 AM	|
9	|	bitgolden	|	Legendary	|	Stake Campaign	|	January 17, 2027, 12:02:58 AM	|
10	|	livingfree	|	Hero Member	|	Bitlist Campaign	|	July 16, 2027, 12:04:40 AM	|
11	|	Jody.Drummer	|	Hero Member	|	-	|	January 16, 2027, 07:32:34 AM	|
12	|		|		|		|		|

Looks like there will be more...

[nutildah]

Will that include answers to the questions being asked on the thread so far, that does not relate to what method you’re using ?

I guess people want answers now, so OK I will answer all the questions already asked, and updated the thread title to fit. In the future this thread will be locked to prevent it from ironically becoming a spam megathread, at which point sigban appeals will have to be individual threads, but for now let's answer some Qs.

What actually make or determine a post to be a low effort reply.

A few different things. Is the post saying anything of substance or relevance? Does it constitute an attempt to add to discussion, or is just there to occupy space?

What are the measures used to determine if members are posting in principle for signature campaign payment and not for the sake of contributing actual discussion?

This is actually based on a combination of all the other factors, and the picture they paint of the account's overall behavior.

If it's the former only, are you going to make another thread where users can request accounts be looked into or would that be too much drama in your opinion?

For now that might not be a good idea, but in the future maybe.

Serious question: do you also have the ability to "undo" those bans? As far as I know most "normal" Mods can only ban, not unban.

Yes, I do... I can also extend them or lessen them.

Will you sig ban users based on previously left AI tags by individuals, or this thread marks a new beginning for all.

No, I'm not issuing any retroactive sig bans for AI tags. Its a "new beginning" alright, but I'm not sure we're thinking the same thing.

If you will sig ban users posting previously expressed ideas, this will leave many people banned after the 5th page of every thread.

I'm not being that strict. 5th page is still pretty fresh and young compared to the 1765th page.

But I have a little question about the points to focus on in the violations that are made, I think this should be clearer, such as if Bob violate only one of all that is prohibited, then how long the punishment will be given, we need clearer criteria about any law in the forum, or maybe it depends on the subjectivity of the assessor?

You will never be sigbanned for only a single violation or a single weakness. I'm looking at a bunch of different things all put together.

Do you decide on your own analysis whether someone should have their signature banned?

Yes, but using guidelines given by theymos.

I still would like to see a transparent process with a clear criteria. Otherwise, every signature ban can lead to a never ending debate.

That's understandable. Coming up.

[notocactus]

It might be nice if any of their signatures were banned, we need to mention the name of the campaign manager as well to let the manager know.

It's not necessarily as it's manager job. Each week a manager has to check participants' posts and the very first step is click on a link to open that participant profile page, before clicking on post history page to check post quality, and count eligible posts.

If a manager does a proper management job, it's no chance that he does not know a participant already has avatar, signature, personal text disabled by this new ban type.

I guess this signature, avatar, personal text ban is like an experimental one so that it was not initially announced by theymos.

This is great.

I'm really glad about theymos' decision. I've been waiting for something like this for a long time and I believe you are an excellent choice for the role. The forum needs to get rid of spammers.

theymos barely changes the forum but when he does it, usually it is harsh change.

It's great but let's return to why merit system worked well, then failed, what's the turning point for all this?

It's like a root cause when merit sources asked for more merit, new merit sources approved and with time, there is no attention on post quality of merited post. People made it like they can merit shitposts, exchange merit without any demerit that is very popular in local boards.

[Mitchell]

Good stuff nutildah, keep it up!

It's great but let's return to why merit system worked well, then failed, what's the turning point for all this?

Not the point of this topic, best to create a new one as to not derail this one.

[LoyceV]

I'll skip this one for now.

Even with a provided log?

Tempting! It would be interesting to see how many users just abandon their account until the ban expires, and only come back after 6, 12 or 24 months. I expect many of them to have many alt accounts, so they'll just continue spamming elsewhere.

I already found 2 users in my files whose signature ban expired:
https://loyce.club/signatures/222284.html
https://loyce.club/signatures/3474688.html

I prefer to focus on quality rather than quantity.

You're funny!

Those threads move very fast, and it's simply not possible to read every single post because many users write long replies. Even then, I usually make only 2-3 posts per day in sports threads.

That sums up the problem: you and many others post without reading.

For those wondering how it works, I will make the process of signature ban candidate selection a little clearer and more transparent in the next couple days.

Be careful not to give away too much information (to spammers).

[hosemary]

Be careful not to give away too much information (to spammers).

Although I suggested having a transparent process and clear criteria in my previous post, on second thought, I think you are right.
Maybe it's better to review users' posts on a case by case basis, instead of relying on predefined criteria, and let nutildah make the final decision.

[Xiestar]

For those wondering how it works, I will make the process of signature ban candidate selection a little clearer and more transparent in the next couple days.

Be careful not to give away too much information (to spammers).

But why? The reason why there’s a signature ban is to clear the forum from spammers. Forcing them to improve just to avoid being banned makes this movement already served its purpose.

Do you preferred banning instead of improving? There’s no guarantee that this spammer will stop creating new account or use their other account. Consistently banning is just a band aid solution instead of motivating them to improve posting. It’s probably the reason why @Nutilda mentioned a potential to justify the ban after an improvement was made.

This improvement will push farmer to focus on few accounts to improve their post quality.

[JollyGood]

The modlog shows some interesting patterns on the accounts that have received signature bans. You can only see their profiles after clicking the IDs and you will note that several of them are participating in the Stake campaign. Well, they were until they received the signature ban.

I am in favour of any initiative that helps clean up the forum but am curious how this was started. Did nutildah approach theymos with the idea?

[hosemary]

But why? The reason why there’s a signature ban is to clear the forum from spammers. Forcing them to improve just to avoid being banned makes this movement already served its purpose.

The question is how to make spammers improve their posts quality.

Assume that nutildah introduces a rule saying if you make more than 5 posts after page 100, you will be banned from displaying signature.
What will happen? The spammer will probably make 4 posts after page 100 and after that they will spam other threads.

It may not be possible to reduce spam just by introducing new rules. I think it's more required to check users' post history on a case by case basis to see if they are just trying to fullfill their campaign requirements.

[promise444c5]

Will that include answers to the questions being asked on the thread so far, that does not relate to what method you’re using ?

I guess people want answers now, so OK I will answer all the questions already asked, and updated the thread title to fit.

Gracias..

I'll skip this one for now.

Even with a provided log?

Tempting!

Please..please.. please  scrape it  

It would be interesting to see how many users just abandon their account until the ban expires, and only come back after 6, 12 or 24 months. I expect many of them to have many alt accounts, so they'll just continue spamming elsewhere.

Most if not all will abandon account  or drastically reduce  their activity.. Abandoning such accounts for months could make some lose  interest in making such account become active  for the purpose of earning once again  . So there’s high possibility of having a reduced number of active users with the update.

I already found 2 users in my files whose signature ban expired:
https://loyce.club/signatures/222284.html
https://loyce.club/signatures/3474688.html

only one is active but with less activity.

[NotATether]

Dang, after a long time, something good finally happened on forum. let's see where all the spammers run off to.

So far I've seen 4 banned members:

virasog - Stake campaign
Akbarkoe - Stake campaign
fuguebtc - Stake campaign
and topbitcoin - Kikabet campaign

I tagged them so they get notified about this thread and can give their comments if they want.

If you ask me, I think 80% of the Stake campaign participants are probably going to end up sig banned.

[LoyceV]

Based on their signatures (1, 2, 3, 4), I think they were banned 4-5 days ago. Usually, shitposters stop posting the moment their signature gets banned, but all 4 of them are still posting! If they would be human, they'd realize their signature is gone. Are they all bots?

My assumption was wrong: bans aren't for 6 or 12 months, they're for 180 or 360 days. So those signatures were not banned a few days earlier. Now it makes more sense: they've all stopped posting the moment they stopped earning.
Does an account deserve to continue wearing a signature if it doesn't post at all while sigbanned? That makes it obvious they're only here to promote their signature.

[eternalgloom]

If you ask me, I think 80% of the Stake campaign participants are probably going to end up sig banned.

I completely agree,

My suggestion would be not to ban everyone all at once. Give it some time and see how they respond after this action from theymos and nutildah. If they improve quality of their posts and stop spamming, that's a good outcome.

If they keep spamming despite the warning, then banning them gradually would be the more reasonable approach.

they've all stopped posting the moment they stopped earning.
Does an account deserve to continue wearing a signature if it doesn't post at all while sigbanned? That makes it obvious they're only here to promote their signature.

Do you really think they're just going to sit around doing nothing for the next 360 days?

I don't think anyone who puts their full effort into a single account naturally becomes a spammer. When they juggle multiple accounts, trying to keep all of them active is what leads to spam.

At the end of the day, their goal is to milk as many campaigns as possible with multiple accounts.

[LoyceV]

Do you really think they're just going to sit around doing nothing for the next 360 days?
I don't think anyone who puts their full effort into a single account naturally becomes a spammer. When they juggle multiple accounts, trying to keep all of them active is what leads to spam.

That's my point: if they don't post on the sigbanned account, and presumably continue on other accounts, their sigban should never end.

[eternalgloom]

Do you really think they're just going to sit around doing nothing for the next 360 days?
I don't think anyone who puts their full effort into a single account naturally becomes a spammer. When they juggle multiple accounts, trying to keep all of them active is what leads to spam.

That's my point: if they don't post on the sigbanned account, and presumably continue on other accounts, their sigban should never end.

TBH your point is really sharp and I completely agree.

This will force them to post quality or at least put genuine effort into one account.

SMH, this will make life really hard for spammers.
Those who are real contributors will not get sigban. And those juggling multiple accounts will have to realize that if they can't consistently make quality posts on one account, they won't be able to get rid of the sig ban.

[xLays]

Dang, after a long time, something good finally happened on forum. let's see where all the spammers run off to.

So far I've seen 4 banned members:

virasog - Stake campaign
Akbarkoe - Stake campaign
fuguebtc - Stake campaign
and topbitcoin - Kikabet campaign

I tagged them so they get notified about this thread and can give their comments if they want.

If you ask me, I think 80% of the Stake campaign participants are probably going to end up sig banned.

If I remember correctly, something similar happened before with the Yobit signature campaign members. Almost everyone who participated in the Yobit.net signature campaign ended up getting signature banned. I never expected something like this would happen again.

Back then, the yobit signature campaign payouts were even directly connected to their exchange.

I wonder what is the status now to the members who were signature banned from the Yobit campaign.

[tbct_mt2]

If I remember correctly, something similar happened before with the Yobit signature campaign members. Almost everyone who participated in the Yobit.net signature campaign ended up getting signature banned. I never expected something like this would happen again.

Back then, the yobit signature campaign payouts were even directly connected to their exchange.

I wonder what is the status now to the members who were signature banned from the Yobit campaign.

That campaign was very noisy in 2019.
Yobit spam on the forum.
Yobit and campaign manager discussion.

129 users banned but not too long time, only 14 days, while Yobit signature was filtered and banned for 60 days.

129 users who were wearing a yobit signature and had at least 1 good report against them in the last 14 days are banned for 14 days. All yobit signatures are wiped. Signatures containing "yobit.net" are banned for 60 days.

Some people were talking about neg-trusting spammers for spamming. This is not appropriate; report the posts, and if that doesn't seem to be working well, come to Meta with specific examples and suggestions.

[Lucius]

Based on their signatures (1, 2, 3, 4), I think they were banned 4-5 days ago. Usually, shitposters stop posting the moment their signature gets banned, but all 4 of them are still posting! If they would be human, they'd realize their signature is gone. Are they all bots?

It's possible that this company (and some others) bought a bunch of BTT accounts which they then used for self-promotion on this forum. These accounts are probably part of a bot network that is operated from one of the horrible places that exist in Cambodia where tens of thousands of people are forced to work in various online scams.

~snip~
If I remember correctly, something similar happened before with the Yobit signature campaign members.

This is nothing compared to what happened in 2019, when around 700 forum users were banned in two days, and it all continued for months afterwards. It was the biggest cleanup of the forum since it existed.

A wave of bans: 400 yesterday, 300 the day before. What changed?

[stompix]

For those wondering how it works, I will make the process of signature ban candidate selection a little clearer and more transparent in the next couple days.

Be careful not to give away too much information (to spammers).

But why? The reason why there’s a signature ban is to clear the forum from spammers. Forcing them to improve just to avoid being banned makes this movement already served its purpose.
Do you preferred banning instead of improving? There’s no guarantee that this spammer will stop creating new account or use their other account. Consistently banning is just a band aid solution instead of motivating them to improve posting. It’s probably the reason why @Nutilda mentioned a potential to justify the ban after an improvement was made.
This improvement will push farmer to focus on few accounts to improve their post quality.

Because they will NOT improve, what they will do is find ways to cheat the detection.

Would nutildah say he targets people with under 5 merits in last year, the spammers will share 5 merits to each account.
Will he say he targets spammers in meathreads that have more than 50% in certain topics, they will move their spam somewhere else.
People will not improve because they find out the criteria to get on the watchlist, the ones that want to improve their posts would do so with the help of the 100001111333311 topics on how to post and how to get merit on this forum.

This aside, when do we hit 100 bans to finally pop some champagne?