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Author Topic: Moderator bribed to delete scam accusations against Winna  (Read 1418 times)
xLays
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Today at 12:19:22 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #21

Damn. That sucks to hear and I fear it will lower peoples trust in the staff. :/

I think this isnt the first time a staff member has done something that affected the community's trust. I remember the former Global Moderator Dabs who defaulted on more than $50,000 worth of loans.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=54791

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Today at 12:21:38 PM
 #22

what scummy thing to do from both parties, they have no fucking shame whatsoever.
in a way i'm glad this happened so everyone can see the underhanded tactics winna uses, they do everything but the right thing.

Hhampuz and myself were fairly sure that Sapta was responsible for the whole Betmanor scam as well.
oh wow.

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Today at 12:21:50 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #23

@sapta: Your Mod-payments were several times the average salary in Indonesia. Was the bribe worth it?
When greed sets in, rational reasoning and contentment disappears. I will not be surprised he made the first contact, maybe he's been looking for an opportunity to make dirty money with his position as Mod or he's been getting away with shady practices in the past but not this time.

I don't know, the only thing I have in mind currently is paying the staff more. Though it's a wild idea.
Increasing remuneration wouldn't keep a disloyal person in check. If this was about pay, sapta would've asked for a raise and not abuse his Mod position. There should be stricter monitoring on the Mods, sapta isn't possibly be the only culprit.

 
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Today at 12:32:42 PM
 #24

Someone should make request to archive those thread to archive.org and archive.today. At very least, it will annoy whoever bribed this former moderator.

A now-removed moderator

His punishment only removed as moderator and a negative tag from you? IMO it's rather lenient.

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Today at 12:47:14 PM
 #25


Well well well, shady places do shady thing. Been calling winna out for months now but not many people want to listen unfortunately. And yet again my feeling was right, just as it has been before with several other sites.
I mean they (benett) might deny it but obviously what other person would be interested to get threads deleted other than the accused party.

Glad this came to light, great work by theymos also making it public once this was discovered.

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Today at 12:52:05 PM
 #26

His punishment only removed as moderator and a negative tag from you? IMO it's rather lenient.
What do you propose, a ban? I am not sure Theymos can hand out any further punishment in this situation, except he believes the offense is worthy of a ban. I believe this situation of a mod accepting a bribe is a first of its kind, so whichever way it is handled would set a precedent on similar cases in the future.

 
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Today at 12:53:03 PM
Last edit: Today at 04:07:13 PM by hilariousandco
 #27

Otherwise, who else has benefits if the scam accusation thread is deleted?
After a cursory check, I see that the allegations are for fraud amounting to almost 7 million euros. Even if you spent 100,000 on bribes, you'll still benefit because, at a minimum, search engines won't index these threads and associate words like "Scam" with the brand name.

Holy f***...

Otherwise, who else has benefits if the scam accusation thread is deleted?
After a cursory check, I see that the allegations are for fraud amounting to almost 7 million euros. Even if you spent 100,000 on bribes, you'll still benefit because, at a minimum, search engines won't index these threads and associate words like "Scam" with the brand name.

Holy f***...

Edit: it needs quite some balls to admit accepting bribes of this quality. Poah...

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Today at 12:56:08 PM
 #28

Hey everyone,

We were surprised to learn about this situation. Winna did not instruct or authorize anyone to pay for the removal of forum posts or scam accusations.

In each of the referenced cases, we have publicly responded with our side of the situation and explained why we disagree with the version of events presented in the respective accusation. We therefore had no reason to seek the removal of these discussions.

We are now reviewing our relationships with external agencies and contractors to determine whether any third party may have acted independently and without our approval. We take this matter seriously and will cooperate with the forum administration where necessary.
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Today at 12:59:16 PM
 #29


We are now reviewing our relationships with external agencies and contractors to determine whether any third party may have acted independently and without our approval. We take this matter seriously and will cooperate with the forum administration where necessary.


That's some nice excuse.There is no way someone else paid money from their own pocket to save your casino! I just created a type 1 flag - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3561

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Today at 01:03:04 PM
 #30


Well well well, shady places do shady thing. Been calling winna out for months now but not many people want to listen unfortunately. And yet again my feeling was right, just as it has been before with several other sites.
I mean they (benett) might deny it but obviously what other person would be interested to get threads deleted other than the accused party.

Glad this came to light, great work by theymos also making it public once this was discovered.
I believe you are 100% correct. What other person besides someone from Winna would care to pay money? What would anyone besides the site gain? It's no surprise how I feel about the site. Look at my previous posts regarding them.
Hey everyone,

We were surprised to learn about this situation. Winna did not instruct or authorize anyone to pay for the removal of forum posts or scam accusations.

In each of the referenced cases, we have publicly responded with our side of the situation and explained why we disagree with the version of events presented in the respective accusation. We therefore had no reason to seek the removal of these discussions.

We are now reviewing our relationships with external agencies and contractors to determine whether any third party may have acted independently and without our approval. We take this matter seriously and will cooperate with the forum administration where necessary.

I don't believe you!!!

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Today at 01:08:22 PM
 #31

That's some nice excuse.There is no way someone else paid money from their own pocket to save your casino! I just created a type 1 flag - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3561
Since the Mod already accepted he was paid to take down accusation threads against Winna, why not push for him to spill everything at once, who contacted him to do what he did? He already lost everything, Mod privilege and a tag from theymos.

It may not have been this part of the team (bennettwinna precisely), someone else might have contacted him separately with a different ID or did he reach out to them himself.


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Today at 01:26:37 PM
 #32

Hey everyone,

We were surprised to learn about this situation. Winna did not instruct or authorize anyone to pay for the removal of forum posts or scam accusations.

In each of the referenced cases, we have publicly responded with our side of the situation and explained why we disagree with the version of events presented in the respective accusation. We therefore had no reason to seek the removal of these discussions.
you still did have a reason, so don't try hiding behind that excuse. only a few of those accusations you replied to and even fewer you "resolved", the rest you didn't even touch or acknowledge.
and having a lot of unresolved scam accusations against you simply looks bad and the biggest reason to remove them, is they were indexed on google if anyone searches winna + scam.

We are now reviewing our relationships with external agencies and contractors to determine whether any third party may have acted independently and without our approval.
already prepared a scapegoat i see.

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Today at 01:28:23 PM
 #33

I am so ashamed that someone from my country could do such heinous act. After all Sapta was very trusted and amazing person in our Indonesian community.

If this keeps happening, who can we trust? Admin's job should be to enforce the rules, not to be a judge. The truth of the accusation against a casino should be determined based on the community, DT member and evidence.

Scam Accusation threads should never be silently removed. If for some reason action has to be taken then a public placeholder should be left and the reason should be mentioned. Then everyone will know what happened.


My takeaways:
 - I'm disappointed that it took 3 months before this was noticed. Since these topics were typically deleted months after they were created, long after they died down, nobody noticed/complained until recently. Once somebody did post about one of the missing topics in Meta, I discovered the abuse within hours. Possibly, the ability of this to go undetected was exacerbated by the fact that the topics were deleted by means of moving them to the non-public "Trashcan" section, which isn't an action listed in the public modlog. I will probably change the modlog page to register such moves as deletions in the near future. (Though I'm not sure that anyone monitors the modlog page closely enough for such things to be noticed even then.)
 - It's incredibly disappointing to see a moderator go rogue, but it's not unexpected for this to happen every once in a long while. That's why moderator actions are set up to be as easy to undo as possible, and why access is on a least-privilege basis.
I would tell theymos that even though a moderator has limited power, if his work goes unmonitored for months then that is a weakness. What do you think about requiring approval from a second moderator before a thread in Scam Accusations or Reputation board can be deleted or moved to the Trashcan? IMO the four eyes principle can be useful in reducing internal fraud.

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Today at 01:33:36 PM
 #34

Humans will always be human; to err is human.

But don't sell your worth and conscience for a peanut.
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Today at 01:42:08 PM
Last edit: Today at 01:58:50 PM by Kazkaz27
 #35

Hmmmmm and who was it that recently cast doubt upon an OP and their winna.com scam accusation? — Oh yeah, Nutildah.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5588726.new#new

Not the first time I’m sure this type of thing has happened. My reputation on here was smeared long ago by a group of cronies on the forum. All a bunch of hurt feelings police.

I lost my trust in this forum and it’s policies/policing long ago. It’s corrupt beyond repair. Some here get special treatment, protection and privileges. I’ve seen Theymos himself “make exceptions” and allow posts against even his own “rules”. The most “trusted” should actually be the most trustless. This debacle only strengthens it.

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Today at 01:43:23 PM
 #36

Humans will always be human; to err is human.

But don't sell your worth and conscience for a peanut.

This story seems to confirm the proverb that everyone has their own price🤷‍♀️. Someone will sell their conscience for a few cents and will sleep peacefully, not realizing that one day something called "karma" will happen to them. How they will live after what is comparable to betrayal will always feel different for everyone.

Should we ban such a moderator? But why? He has already done everything, and the attitude towards him already says more than he can tell if he somehow wants to explain what happened.

Now everyone involved with this topic will "bury their heads in the sand" to deflect suspicion from themselves, but actions will always speak more than words.

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Today at 01:44:05 PM
 #37

If this keeps happening, who can we trust?
This doesn't happen often, moderators do not go rogue every day, so i don't think this is enough to break the trust in the forum's administration. The mod in question was also a Patroller, if it were to be a mod of higher privilege, say a Global Moderator, then the weight of the crime would have been heavier.
What do you think about requiring approval from a second moderator before a thread in Scam Accusations or Reputation board can be deleted or moved to the Trashcan?
That would amount to extra work for the moderators. And it is not like abuse of this kind can easily be pulled off and go unnoticed forever, plus, since mod actions can quickly be reversed, i don't think any immediate change is necessary.

 
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Today at 01:48:02 PM
 #38

Hey everyone,

We were surprised to learn about this situation. Winna did not instruct or authorize anyone to pay for the removal of forum posts or scam accusations.

In each of the referenced cases, we have publicly responded with our side of the situation and explained why we disagree with the version of events presented in the respective accusation. We therefore had no reason to seek the removal of these discussions.

We are now reviewing our relationships with external agencies and contractors to determine whether any third party may have acted independently and without our approval. We take this matter seriously and will cooperate with the forum administration where necessary.


I went through those links that theymos provided and you know what? Even if you were able to prove that you are not responsible for those bribery payments, the accusations are enough to avoid you like the plague. Because if you go through those allegations, frankly, it doesn't look to me as if you had any chance to convincingly refute all of them, especially if you see how coherent the allegations are although all have been raised independently.

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Today at 01:58:14 PM
 #39

Damn. That sucks to hear and I fear it will lower peoples trust in the staff. :/
Yes, and this is one of the reasons why i like Satoshi for creating Bitcoin to be a trustless system becuse the middle man can do things like what we witness today at some point.

Winna should receive a permanent ban from this forum. I am curious how much he got paid also there are more people involve with this case. I think we need a proper investigation. This is something the forum admin panel should not ignore and take neccassary steps to prevent it for future.
As everything is exposed now to the public with Theymos posting the accusation, I don't see every stone left unturned.
Therefore, the permanent ban of the brand needs to be upheld until a proper investigation is conducted.

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Today at 02:01:24 PM
 #40

Holy shit! Now, that's an event!

- It's incredibly disappointing to see a moderator go rogue, but it's not unexpected for this to happen every once in a long while.
nah i think this wasn't just a moderation mistake; it was a failure of basic ethics. It almost feels like he clicked "Delete ethics" before clicking "Delete topic."

That's good one. Well, at least at top we have ethical person in charge — this must not change and of course Theymos himself must not go rogue.

Hmmmmm and who was it that recently cast doubt upon an OP and their winna.com scam accusation? — Oh yeah, Nutildah.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5588726.new#new

What's wrong with asking evidence to back the words said?

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