Moderator bribed to delete scam accusations against Winna

[theymos]

A now-removed moderator was mass-deleting Winna scam accusations, starting around April. These threads were deleted, but they are now all restored:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5552844.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5560973.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5564518.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5564449.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5578267.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5560841.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5563216.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5560692.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5559158.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5556286.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5573314.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5579411.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5568456.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5583371.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5580783.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5577325.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5554571.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5545779.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5582037.0

There was also one scam accusation for gamdom.com that he removed.

After being discovered, the moderator admitted to being paid to remove these threads. While I can't be 100% sure that Winna was the one behind this bribery, it seems likely, especially given the volume of scam accusations against them.

The moderator was only a patroller and a moderator of the Indonesian sections, so he could only delete stuff posted by newbies or stuff posted in the Indonesian sections. He didn't have access to any sensitive information such as emails or IP addresses. All moderation actions are logged, and I couldn't find any abuses other than the above items in the logs. The moderator also claims that the above items were the only abuses.

My takeaways:
 - This makes Winna look very, very shady.
 - Bribing a moderator to act against policy is likely a criminal act, so I'll be preserving all records related to this incident so that they're available in the event of a future criminal investigation.
 - I'm disappointed that it took 3 months before this was noticed. Since these topics were typically deleted months after they were created, long after they died down, nobody noticed/complained until recently. Once somebody did post about one of the missing topics in Meta, I discovered the abuse within hours. Possibly, the ability of this to go undetected was exacerbated by the fact that the topics were deleted by means of moving them to the non-public "Trashcan" section, which isn't an action listed in the public modlog. I will probably change the modlog page to register such moves as deletions in the near future. (Though I'm not sure that anyone monitors the modlog page closely enough for such things to be noticed even then.)
 - It's incredibly disappointing to see a moderator go rogue, but it's not unexpected for this to happen every once in a long while. That's why moderator actions are set up to be as easy to undo as possible, and why access is on a least-privilege basis.

[Mitchell]

Damn. That sucks to hear and I fear it will lower peoples trust in the staff. :/

[shahzadafzal]

- It's incredibly disappointing to see a moderator go rogue, but it's not unexpected for this to happen every once in a long while.

nah i think this wasn't just a moderation mistake; it was a failure of basic ethics. It almost feels like he clicked "Delete ethics" before clicking "Delete topic."

That's why moderator actions are set up to be as easy to undo as possible, and why access is on a least-privilege basis.

That's good and it shows forum's the logging system and audit trail you have put worked as intended.

Damn. That sucks to hear and I fear it will lower peoples trust in the staff. :/

You're right.

The topics can be restored, but trust is much harder to restore. That's the real damage in situations like this.

[yahoo62278]

Hhampuz and myself were fairly sure that Sapta was responsible for the whole Betmanor scam as well. We couldn't be 100% sure and had no proof so he was left untagged. Glad he was finally found out and can now do no more harm to the community.

[bitgolden]

~9 months back itself, LoyceV notified about one of Winna's bad behaviour:

"Winna" refused to pay $80k^* to a user. The user won this in Mines, but Winna claims he was counting cards and basically says users aren't allowed to want to win. They should change their name to Losaa.

^* OP says it's "resolved", but it's not:

it's both extortion and coercion imo.
they strong armed him to either take the $5k or get nothing leaving him with no choice but to accept

[icopress]

I also notified him that he was removed from the campaign.

It's a shame that the project resorted to bribery instead of resolving problematic cases. 

[NotATether]

This is a serious breach of trust.

What will be done to prevent this from happening in the future?

[PostQuantumBTC]

Damn. That sucks to hear and I fear it will lower peoples trust in the staff. :/

But this will already teach other staff a lesson that if they are noticed of any wrongdoing, they are not above the law. I just like that this happened for the justice of the members of the forum. Staff are receiving enough incentives already and they have higher advantage to be in a campaign. What theymos had done now will make people think that nobody is above the law on this forum.

What will be done to prevent this from happening in the future?

What Theymos did now is enough to prevent it from happening or another staff will be removed.

[The Cryptovator]

After being discovered, the moderator admitted to being paid to remove these threads. While I can't be 100% sure that Winna was the one behind this bribery, it seems likely, especially given the volume of scam accusations against them.

It is also quite dangerous that you aren't sure Winna is behind this bribery. Otherwise, who else has benefits if the scam accusation thread is deleted? This is normal; only winna will benefit from such thread deletes. Their competitors won't pay for this at all; you have to understand the logic and take action accordingly.

I have seen the thread, and I have asked the moderator to explain why the thread was deleted since I haven't found any valid reasons except some links in the thread that I am unfamiliar with.

https://bitlist.co/topic/5564518?page=1

Could you please clarify the reason behind the thread deletion?

Very rarely have I heard about moderation abuse, especially related to scams. Because scams haven't been moderating on the forum. This is a punishable offense for both winna and moderators. Try to investigate and find whoever is more involved with that shady attempt. Other moderators should take lessons from that.

However, at least add some drop-down reason why a thread has been deleted if it's impossible to input manually. I am talking about the main thread only, not about replies. So there would be a mod log as well for why the thread has been deleted.

[Little Mouse]

What a shitshow! It's a shame for both.

After being discovered, the moderator admitted to being paid to remove these threads. While I can't be 100% sure that Winna was the one behind this bribery, it seems likely, especially given the volume of scam accusations against them.

There's almost no way anyone else will pay for removing these threads unless the mod sold himself for a few bucks. I sent a DM (in Telegram) to Benett to come here and explain.

[mindrust]

Why don't you tell us the name of the moderator? It is probably not that hard to find the name since you said you removed him/her. That seems weird to me. You gotta choose them staff people more carefully at the very least.

[icopress]

Otherwise, who else has benefits if the scam accusation thread is deleted?

After a cursory check, I see that the allegations are for fraud amounting to almost 7 million euros. Even if you spent 100,000 on bribes, you'll still benefit because, at a minimum, search engines won't index these threads and associate words like "Scam" with the brand name.

[Taricoins]

Why don't you tell us the name of the moderator? It is probably not that hard to find the name since you said you removed him/her. That seems weird to me. You gotta choose them staff people more carefully at the very least.

I think there is no need for that since theymos said he has already handled the issue but just incase you still want to have a clue to names

Hhampuz and myself were fairly sure that Sapta was responsible for the whole Betmanor scam as well. We couldn't be 100% sure and had no proof so he was left untagged. Glad he was finally found out and can now do no more harm to the community.

[adultcrypto]

This gets to show that no system is perfect and free from being exploited. Good that Theymos is able to spot this and also make it public in the spirit of transparency. It also helps to know that sharp practices can happen at any level as long as the price is enticing. Thank you Theymos for the effort to keep the forum clean and as you promptly nipped this in the bud.  

[JeromeTash]

Why don't you tell us the name of the moderator? It is probably not that hard to find the name since you said you removed him/her. That seems weird to me. You gotta choose them staff people more carefully at the very least.

Clue: Indonesian board
Archive - https://web.archive.org/web/20260717215943/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=191.0

It's sapta. He should be tagged, flagged and excluded from the trustlists

I never interacted with him before, but what a lowlife!

[Murat]

Winna should receive a permanent ban from this forum. I am curious how much he got paid also there are more people involve with this case. I think we need a proper investigation. This is something the forum admin panel should not ignore and take neccassary steps to prevent it for future.

[LoyceV]

I will probably change the modlog page to register such moves as deletions in the near future. (Though I'm not sure that anyone monitors the modlog page closely enough for such things to be noticed even then.)

If the data is available, TryNinja's Telegram bot would be the perfect tool to alert people when a topic they posted in is deleted.

~9 months back itself, LoyceV notified about one of Winna's bad behaviour:

Back then, I removed my negative feedback after reading posts of legal threats (not directed at me). It felt like it wasn't worth the risk to me.

What will be done to prevent this from happening in the future?

What can be done? I don't think this can be prevented entirely.

You gotta choose them staff people more carefully at the very least.

We've seen many reputable members turn into scammers. I'd say Mods are doing better than average. Given the number of Moderators and how rare this is, I'd say Mod selection is doing just fine.

Why don't you tell us the name of the moderator?

Check theymos' sent feedback.

@sapta: Your Mod-payments were several times the average salary in Indonesia. Was the bribe worth it?

[NotATether]

Otherwise, who else has benefits if the scam accusation thread is deleted?

After a cursory check, I see that the allegations are for fraud amounting to almost 7 million euros. Even if you spent 100,000 on bribes, you'll still benefit because, at a minimum, search engines won't index these threads and associate words like "Scam" with the brand name.

BitList and Loyce.club would still have them though. And possibly my search engine as well since it hasn't completely finished re-indexing yet (there are only about 100K topics remaining to update), though it's not designed for that purpose.

Winna should receive a permanent ban from this forum. I am curious how much he got paid also there are more people involve with this case. I think we need a proper investigation. This is something the forum admin panel should not ignore and take neccassary steps to prevent it for future.

+1, but we need confirmation first.

What will be done to prevent this from happening in the future?

What can be done? I don't think this can be prevented entirely.

I don't know, the only thing I have in mind currently is paying the staff more. Though it's a wild idea.

[Swordsoffreedom]

Winna should receive a permanent ban from this forum. I am curious how much he got paid also there are more people involve with this case. I think we need a proper investigation. This is something the forum admin panel should not ignore and take neccassary steps to prevent it for future.

This incident shows how important the bitcointalk forum is for every casino.

It was not a small bribe to get the moderator to do such a thing. Instead of bribing Sapta, they could have solved at least one scam accusation with that money. Later, they would have solved the rest gradually. Moreover, they are also investing a lot of money in the forum for signature campaigns.

I am withdrawing all my funds from winna right now. Others should do the same, before anything bad happens.
Let's see what Bennett has to say about this.

[SuperBitMan]

I’m not surprised to see this kind of news because majority of the casinos and exchange running promotions on this forum has agents, this agents are reputable members in this forum and they are being employed by the casinos or exchange to defend them when they are being called out for scamming someone.
I believe this staff you mentioned is an agent for Winna and he was employed to do all he did for them to be protected in the forum.
If you look deeper you will see more scam accusations being covered by some reputable members.