Is provably fair really real?

[EluguHcman]

My cousin who have been a gambler in the past and quit said that if gambling is truly provably fair many casinos won't make it because there is always a load of people testing that one game and they will win even more which will result in loss for the casino, do you believe what he said about this?

If he can not provide evidence on how the casinos are not being fair, then I should disbelieve what he is saying because there is no essence to be convinced.

I don't also expect it to be true that a casino have to run bankruptcy before proving to be fair in their system processions. The outcome of most casino games is processed by the RNG which means the state of the probabilities to win is below that of the house edge advantage giving the hedge to the casinos.

Perhaps we are talking about pure lucky gaming event here which it is also possible that you can spin on several occasions and not be lucky.

[BRINIRHA]

My cousin who have been a gambler in the past and quit said that if gambling is truly provably fair many casinos won't make it because there is always a load of people testing that one game and they will win even more which will result in loss for the casino, do you believe what he said about this?

If he can not provide evidence on how the casinos are not being fair, then I should disbelieve what he is saying because there is no essence to be convinced.

I don't also expect it to be true that a casino have to run bankruptcy before proving to be fair in their system processions. The outcome of most casino games is processed by the RNG which means the state of the probabilities to win is below that of the house edge advantage giving the hedge to the casinos.

Perhaps we are talking about pure lucky gaming event here which it is also possible that you can spin on several occasions and not be lucky.

Casinos will only go bankrupt if there are no visitors who come to gamble or there are other problems in their internal, other than that they will never go bankrupt especially if gamblers always come to their site considering the site is just like a shopping place when the more people who come, the greater the profits that will be obtained.

As for the issue of fair or not as long as the casino has a good enough reputation and can be trusted then it already means it is said to be fair but when talking about the problem of winning and losing this should have nothing to do with fairness because gambling for players is always synonymous with losing and sooner or later defeat will come so I think just because the defeat/victory factor that is the focus of justice is too much.

[Onyeeze]

The word "provably fair" is what casinos use to let you know that the result of your bet was fair without being manipulated but that doesn't mean that they didn't designed their algorithm to favor them more than the gamblers.

that is a trick, they are using such word to make people to feel relaxed in their casino platform so that they will think that there is no manipulation and their casino platform is standard, we cannot rely on casino platform statement most of what they do in their platform favor them but they will bring a word that will make you to feel relax thinking that there are all saint but in normal sense it is a word to fool you, I think that we should know that all gambling platform does not want you to the winning every time what they want is something that will profit them more not to the gamblers, but when looking at it you're thinking that the rules and the regulation of Casino gambling platform favors you more than them but not knowing that it is something that favors them most

[Hispo]

My cousin who have been a gambler in the past and quit said that if gambling is truly provably fair many casinos won't make it because there is always a load of people testing that one game and they will win even more which will result in loss for the casino, do you believe what he said about this?

the problem I have with provably fair is we can't ever know how true it is, even a casino that can't be trusted will use the same language that they are transparent to enhance players confidence in them, there is no probably fair verification, the cryptographic algorithm and others aren't enough.

What about you? What do you think about provably fair language from casinos?

To be honest with you, I think you cousin does not even understand what the point of Provably fairness is and what it is supposed to accomplish on casinos.
Provably fairness it is real and it is supposed to be used to verify the casino it actually sticking to the house edge they claim to be using on their games.

Also, cryptographic hashes can be verified in third party programs to see whether the results we were getting during our gambling section matched with what it is given by our hashes combination.

Provably fairness is important and it should not be underestimated as something niche, Specially since the whole point of Cryptocurrencies is having the chance to verify transactions and not to depend on trust.

[Sonia_123]

No matter any kind of language being used by the casino to make you comfortable, they must always be on the winning side, they cannot lose because that is where they make their money from, probably fair has said it all and so you need to understand it and see that casinos do predetermine their game and that is why you don't need to be chasing your losses or wins because you will keep losing more, therefore if you are lucky in your first and second game it is better you call it a day if not the next game will have to collect all you have won.

[TypoTonic]

I cannot assess either whether the provably fairness they claim is real or not, but I rely on people with better knowledge than me to carry out the due research, at least when it comes to the biggest casinos, and if they find something shady they will publish it. A few days ago I read the thread written by a user in this forum warning about his doubts about the provability fairness of certain platform, and it's being reviewed.

I haven't tried playing at BetFury, but we can always check their documentation.^[1][2] It seems like the problem is that they use RNG in combination with the server seed, instead of using the client seed and a per-bet nonce. So basically, the randomness fully depend on them since there's no player-induced entropy, and there's no way for us to know what the randomly generated number is.


[1] https://betfury.com/news/fairness-system
[2] https://betfury.com/fairness

[Hispo]

No matter any kind of language being used by the casino to make you comfortable, they must always be on the winning side, they cannot lose because that is where they make their money from, probably fair has said it all and so you need to understand it and see that casinos do predetermine their game and that is why you don't need to be chasing your losses or wins because you will keep losing more, therefore if you are lucky in your first and second game it is better you call it a day if not the next game will have to collect all you have won.

I would say provably fair games are not directly about making people aware of the fact the casino is supposed to be profitable, but it is rather about proving gamblers there is nothing to hide from them and there is rigging behind the fact the casino is supposed to be profitable.

If a casino has big enough volume and enough bankroll to pay occasional winners, there is no need for them to cheat or rig with games at all, as the edge of the house would do all the hard work and bring money slowly but steadily.

[laijsica]

No matter any kind of language being used by the casino to make you comfortable, they must always be on the winning side, they cannot lose because that is where they make their money from, probably fair has said it all and so you need to understand it and see that casinos do predetermine their game and that is why you don't need to be chasing your losses or wins because you will keep losing more, therefore if you are lucky in your first and second game it is better you call it a day if not the next game will have to collect all you have won.

You won't know at the beginning of the day which day you are lucky because I have won a lot of times after losing my first bet. Or I have lost several times after starting with a win. Most of the time, casinos operate their operations to win, some are a little more flexible towards gamblers, some are stricter.
To be fair everyone wants to make a lot of profit, but reputable casinos have a long term business strategy where they make a profit for themselves as well as give gamblers a chance to win, which means they are not so strict towards gamblers.

[Pikiboy]

What about you? What do you think about provably fair language from casinos?

This is a regular language which everyone should get used and it’s a best selling words that is mostly being used by all gambling site to sell themselves more better over the community. If a gambling company doesn’t used this language it’s considered as the one that is not properly doing the right marketing for themselves that is why you see most gambling site ideally use this word or terminology as the first gambling site that is provably fair.

[bitbollo]

in the past I have seen explanations about some cheats made with a "provably fair" casino.
It's not matter of language, in a short way, this can be trusted but there are specific rules / criteria to be sure they are not just tossing random numbers (or pre-seeding like during automatic sessions...)
- access to all bet history
- players must change their seed / nonce
- each verification of seed player would change server seed
- third party verifier allowed

[Insanity]

No matter any kind of language being used by the casino to make you comfortable, they must always be on the winning side, they cannot lose because that is where they make their money from, probably fair has said it all and so you need to understand it and see that casinos do predetermine their game and that is why you don't need to be chasing your losses or wins because you will keep losing more, therefore if you are lucky in your first and second game it is better you call it a day if not the next game will have to collect all you have won.

You won't know at the beginning of the day which day you are lucky because I have won a lot of times after losing my first bet. Or I have lost several times after starting with a win. Most of the time, casinos operate their operations to win, some are a little more flexible towards gamblers, some are stricter.
To be fair everyone wants to make a lot of profit, but reputable casinos have a long term business strategy where they make a profit for themselves as well as give gamblers a chance to win, which means they are not so strict towards gamblers.

It's important to note that a casino's main objective is to make money, but all games do not have to be rigged. Provably Fair games use cryptographic seeds that the players are able to check after the round. This doesn't mean that the casino is going to have to get in the way of individual success to break even over the long term. The casino still has a house edge. No session win or loss can determine the outcome of the session. Rounds are independent of one another and by chasing losses and believing that they're due, you are committing a common gambling mistake.

[SPIDERMAN008]

Casino sites never want to make  loss. I have never heard of any casino site being closed due to excessive loss. Rather, those who own the casino site become much richer. They also manipulate people through the casino games in the casino site. Since they are developers, it is not unusual for them to have control. In addition, many times a user faces various problems when they try to withdraw their winnings.  intentional delays can also be observed many casino site . However, to stay away from such problems, you can get some relief by choosing a trusted casino site and doing sports betting there. Because no one can control which team will win or lose in sports betting. Analyzing through experience, it is possible to make a profit by betting on sports betting, but no type of bet gives a guaranteed profit. It is possible to bet within the limit by accepting that there may be losses.

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

My cousin who have been a gambler in the past and quit said that if gambling is truly provably fair many casinos won't make it because there is always a load of people testing that one game and they will win even more which will result in loss for the casino, do you believe what he said about this?

the problem I have with provably fair is we can't ever know how true it is, even a casino that can't be trusted will use the same language that they are transparent to enhance players confidence in them, there is no probably fair verification, the cryptographic algorithm and others aren't enough.

What about you? What do you think about provably fair language from casinos?

One thing gamblers need to understand is that when a casino claims to be probably fair, it literally doesn't mean that they are going to be giving you all their hard earned money simply because you gambled on the casino, but rather what it meant is that for every bet you place, it's outcome is completely random and the casino do not have control over it, as it operates on an open source code. And by virtue of that, it definitely didn't mean you will be winning more, because I'm sure the reason why people always alleged that a casino is not provably fair is after they may have tried multiple times and weren't lucky to hit a huge sum of money from it, as it's obvious they might have been winning, but not much. So indeed provably fair games are actually real, but only on a reliable and reputable casino.

[Nwada001]

I saw a response that resonates very well with what I had in mind when I was reading through this thread. It said that provably fair is simply how casinos show you that your bet result is correct and not forged, but it doesn't mean that it makes the algorithm a fair one for the gambler.

At least this explanation is down to the level an average man can understand it; some people don’t know the difference between provably fair and house edge since there are rumors of some casinos manipulating their game results. Making the game seed available so that it can be verified that the result is not manipulated, the game by design is already in the favor of the casino to be on the winning side; they just don’t control what the next game will be like. The system handles that.

There are some that claim to be provably fair, but they don't have anything set up for their users actually to verify their bets. So not all casinos that say they are provably fair are actually fair.

Most casinos are now working on releasing their own provably fair technology, which can be used to track and verify all game results. I think Stake has that now, and most will over time emulate it. If some casinos still feel like keeping things under wraps and not making code public for easy verification, they might be able to retain the people’s trust for long.

[Royal Cap]

What about you? What do you think about provably fair language from casinos?

Provably fair does not mean that the casino will not have a house edge or that the player will profit in the long run. The main purpose of this is to ensure that the results of each round can be verified later, so that the casino cannot change the outcome midway.  However there is one thing that can be questioned, If the logic of the casino's game or the entire system is not transparent then there is no reason to blindly trust just by seeing the words provably fair. So this tag can be seen as an additional advantage but not as the only reason to trust.

[ProvablyFair.org]

I audit provably fair games for a living. Provably fair is real and it does protect players, but only if it's implemented correctly, and a large percentage of casinos don't implement it correctly.
The problem is there's no standard. A provably fair system needs all of its core components. Get 4 out of 5 right and the casino can still choose your result. Most players have no idea, they see something that looks legit and trust it.

To be clear about what "fair" means here: the game is as advertised, house edge included. Provably fair doesn't mean you'll win. It means you don't have to take their word for anything.

What "provably fair" actually requires

1. The casino commits first.
They publish a hash of their server seed before you play, and before you set your client seed. Order matters. If they see your seed first, they can pick a server seed that pairs badly with it.

2. The next seed is committed too.
While your current seed is still active, you should already be able to see the hash of the next one. Without that, the casino generates the new seed after seeing your new client seed. Same hole, one step down the line.

3. Something they can't control contributes to the result.
Either a client seed you choose, or an external randomness beacon like drand or a future blockchain block hash.

4. The nonce increments by exactly 1, with no gaps.
Every bet moves the counter up one. Gaps or repeats mean rounds could be discarded or re-rolled.

5. The result comes from a published formula you can run yourself.
Dice, for example:

Code:

hash = HMAC-SHA256(key: server seed, message: client seed:nonce)
first 4 bytes of hash -> a number between 0 and 1
roll = floor(number x 10001) / 100   ->   0.00 to 100.00

The same three inputs always produce the same roll.

Break any one of the five and the operator can choose your result.

All five depend on one thing: reproducibility.
You need to be able to recompute any past bet from the revealed server seed, your client seed and the nonce, using code that didn't come from the casino. If their verifier is the only way to check, none of the five are verifiable and you're back to trusting the casino.

This covers the large majority of provably fair games. Some newer on-chain casinos work differently, VRF, block hashes, on-chain commit-reveal. The principles hold, the mechanics vary.

[Sanitough]

As a regular gambler, I can certainly tell that provably fair is real. But that does not mean that since the casino is transparent and fair, then we will always be winning our bets. There is still house edge, the mathematical advantage is always on the house, and that gives us lower chances to win most particularly for luck and chance based games.

However, the term ''provably fair'' is definitely in favor for the gamblers, but even if the games are random and transparent, the nature of the gambling games still favored the casino in the end, not with the gamblers.

[348Judah]

What about you? What do you think about provably fair language from casinos?

Provably fair does not mean that the casino will not have a house edge or that the player will profit in the long run. The main purpose of this is to ensure that the results of each round can be verified later, so that the casino cannot change the outcome midway.  However there is one thing that can be questioned, If the logic of the casino's game or the entire system is not transparent then there is no reason to blindly trust just by seeing the words provably fair. So this tag can be seen as an additional advantage but not as the only reason to trust.

We need to trust the casino to deliver up to expectation from the process down to the finishing end being not tampered, this is why we play our games and entrust the entire process with them, which is why many will also give it a provably fair game, but once this cannot be established, then it is something else and we cannot be sure of having it 100% provably Fair game, just that many gamblers don't concentrate much on this, because they don't know how to verify the process, they will rather concentrate much in playing their games.

[KiaKia]

The algorithm will never be fair for gamblers, it's going to be really unfair from gamblers side if what we want is winning more than losing, these casinos won't even last longer before they close their business.

A smart gambler must understand that for a casino business to survive they games must not be fair, it is why the house will always win in the end, and this whole game is based on emotions which is why gamblers always come back after they have won.

Not to make more money but to pay back what they won some weeks ago, I ask questions when gambling is favouring me, I've won three times in a week before and I kept asking why, because I know I was extremely lucky that week.

I later decided to quit for a while to avoid feeling like I got it right in three different days and I will keep getting it right, it's a trap or something I said to myself, like saying "don't be too fair to me, you also need money to survive too", lol.

[qwertyup23]

My cousin who have been a gambler in the past and quit said that if gambling is truly provably fair many casinos won't make it because there is always a load of people testing that one game and they will win even more which will result in loss for the casino, do you believe what he said about this?

It depends on the experience of that gambler.

Remember, every person has their respective experience on the games that we play. For example, you may experience a losing streak or an overall unpleasant experience; while others may have the opposite luck that you are feeling.

the problem I have with provably fair is we can't ever know how true it is, even a casino that can't be trusted will use the same language that they are transparent to enhance players confidence in them, there is no probably fair verification, the cryptographic algorithm and others aren't enough.

What about you? What do you think about provably fair language from casinos?

Now, it will really depend on the reputation of the casino in which you would trust.

Generally a well-established and reputable casino would have all the means in the world. Meaning, they have the capital and active players that fund their game from time-to-time. They will not ruin their reputation for a mere small increase or rigging their rates for a small profit.