BIP-110 Split

[asUHWEceyc]

It's hard not to agree on sentiment if not the methods [which seem destined to fail]...what with BS hiring dreaded ethfigs to protocolize permissioned p2p michael saylor dikpix microlending on the sidechain. Seems like a marginally circuitous path to researching a sound money future

[athanred]

Isn't 84 bytes allowed by BIP-110?

No, 83 is allowed, everything above it is not.

P2PK isn't that deprecated or considered unsafe by now?

If you think it is unsafe, then go on, and move thousands of BTCs, sitting now on P2PK, into your address. Early miners put them 50 BTC per public key, so go on, there is a lot of incentive, if you think it can be broken.

Yes, it is "deprecated", but you can still use it, if you want. For example: https://mempool.space/tx/909b486928dc415d9b6613fcc70ccdbfb4d2f88516a040522365b95794774608

BIP-110 supporters often said, that no payments are affected. Which means, that they probably consider P2PK to be "not a payment", or "a spam", even though it works, it is used since 2009, and Satoshi used it in the first transactions. Which is why using P2PK is a nice way to troll them, because it pushes less on-chain bytes, than for example P2PKH, and at the same time, this less spammy method is blocked by BIP-110 for absolutely no reason (because P2PK for compressed and uncompressed keys is always smaller than 83 bytes, allowed in OP_RETURN; it is funny to use less bytes than OP_RETURN allows, and still be blocked by them).

I think this whole thing started with SegWit anyway.

Yes, of course. The same things can be pushed through 15-of-15 multisigs inside P2SH. What then?

Im not going to be doing anything different because of Luke's fork.

Your coins, your choice. If you don't care, then your transactions could be just replayed in both networks.

How do I check if the coins I own are already splitted anyway?

If you copy-paste your transaction to another network, and it will be broadcasted, then your coins are not splitted.

what block explorer will show this?

non-BIP-110: https://mempool.space/
BIP-110: https://mempool.guide/

[stompix]

~

There's a higher probability for Luke Dash Jr. to get some of the 200 Bitcoin that he lost by having some sort of premine of filterboicoin then selling that to the BIP-110 cult followers than trying to "burn everything" by destroying Bitcoin.

If you're right about his agenda, then he himself lost the plot by believing that a small group of PLEBS in the internet could take Bitcoin down.

Maybe that was the plan when it started
This can't be the plan now, he yelled so much against people taking over, dictatorship in core, the mining monopoly, all that stuff, he has advocated so much for the plebs, that this is their chain and so on, the moment he tries to pull this card out of the hat is the moment he gets eaten alive.
I'm pretty sure even he is surprised what charcters his has given birth to, at this point he must act like a politician, he must go with his followers as there is no turning back, even if the train is on fire and is going 200 miles an hour on a track that has just one more mile

Probably he has thought of something smart before being drowned in stupid...

Anyhow, do they have a plan for what they are going to do in September or it's just "we switch to blake and God will guide us for the rest" ?

[philipma1957]

~

There's a higher probability for Luke Dash Jr. to get some of the 200 Bitcoin that he lost by having some sort of premine of filterboicoin then selling that to the BIP-110 cult followers than trying to "burn everything" by destroying Bitcoin.

If you're right about his agenda, then he himself lost the plot by believing that a small group of PLEBS in the internet could take Bitcoin down.

Maybe that was the plan when it started
This can't be the plan now, he yelled so much against people taking over, dictatorship in core, the mining monopoly, all that stuff, he has advocated so much for the plebs, that this is their chain and so on, the moment he tries to pull this card out of the hat is the moment he gets eaten alive.
I'm pretty sure even he is surprised what charcters his has given birth to, at this point he must act like a politician, he must go with his followers as there is no turning back, even if the train is on fire and is going 200 miles an hour on a track that has just one more mile

Probably he has thought of something smart before being drowned in stupid...

Anyhow, do they have a plan for what they are going to do in September or it's just "we switch to blake and God will guide us for the rest" ?

oh ye of little faith one must follow the savior til the end.

[takuma sato]

Isn't 84 bytes allowed by BIP-110?

No, 83 is allowed, everything above it is not.

P2PK isn't that deprecated or considered unsafe by now?

If you think it is unsafe, then go on, and move thousands of BTCs, sitting now on P2PK, into your address. Early miners put them 50 BTC per public key, so go on, there is a lot of incentive, if you think it can be broken.

Yes, it is "deprecated", but you can still use it, if you want. For example: https://mempool.space/tx/909b486928dc415d9b6613fcc70ccdbfb4d2f88516a040522365b95794774608

BIP-110 supporters often said, that no payments are affected. Which means, that they probably consider P2PK to be "not a payment", or "a spam", even though it works, it is used since 2009, and Satoshi used it in the first transactions. Which is why using P2PK is a nice way to troll them, because it pushes less on-chain bytes, than for example P2PKH, and at the same time, this less spammy method is blocked by BIP-110 for absolutely no reason (because P2PK for compressed and uncompressed keys is always smaller than 83 bytes, allowed in OP_RETURN; it is funny to use less bytes than OP_RETURN allows, and still be blocked by them).

I think this whole thing started with SegWit anyway.

Yes, of course. The same things can be pushed through 15-of-15 multisigs inside P2SH. What then?

Im not going to be doing anything different because of Luke's fork.

Your coins, your choice. If you don't care, then your transactions could be just replayed in both networks.

How do I check if the coins I own are already splitted anyway?

If you copy-paste your transaction to another network, and it will be broadcasted, then your coins are not splitted.

what block explorer will show this?

non-BIP-110: https://mempool.space/
BIP-110: https://mempool.guide/

Nobody is going to be using P2PK. So everyone's coins would be at risk. So I assume you are exaggerating this. There's no way that exchanges, Microstrategy and so on are going to move millions of BTC into P2PK in case Lukecoin blockchain replay their coins. Unless im not following something, because if someone can fork Bitcoin and screw with your coins on the other end of the chain then the project is f*cked since that is a massive attack vector. So assuming if im understanding this properly, this would only be a risk IF you start moving coins on the Lukecoin blockchain. So what 99% of people are going to do is exactly nothing, that is, do not move your BTC into some deprecated address format (satoshi's coins would be the first to be attacked in a quantum attack beside of the fact that they are public, because they are also in that format) and just do not ever interact with Lukecoin blockchain which is going to have a value of $0 anyway.

[athanred]

do they have a plan

Of course not. Otherwise, they would make any kind of testnet for BIP-110. Then, they would also know, that unconditionally activating new rules with 2.5% hashrate is going to make their chain 40 times slower. If they didn't test it then, why should they test it now? It seems they like testing things in production, without any testnets.

we switch to blake and God will guide us for the rest

It would be funny to see different versions of Knots, being incompatible with themselves. Who knows, maybe some users won't agree to change the Proof of Work? Because unlocking the BIP-110 chain will obviously make it more spammy, than it currently is. And if their hard-forked chain, with 10 minutes per block, will contain all kind of BIP-110-compatible spam, then who knows, if some rollback to SHA-256 will be needed.

oh ye of little faith one must follow the savior til the end

Does it mean using the SHA-256 version?

BIP-110 is the best soft-fork in the Bitcoin history.

Why people should change their Proof of Work, if BIP-110 is the best soft-fork? It successfully stopped all of the spam, what else do you want? If you have one block per few days, then your chain is less spammy, isn't it?

Also, if it is the best soft-fork, then imagine how the worst one could look like.

Edit:

Nobody is going to be using P2PK.

Of course. And my transaction doesn't exist, right? Or its second version isn't confirmed on BIP-110 chain, right?

So everyone's coins would be at risk.

No, because miners already moved some of their newly minted coins. And every coin they touched is also splitted correctly.

if someone can fork Bitcoin and screw with your coins on the other end of the chain

Anyone can always make any altcoin. I can release a new chain tomorrow, where you will get my "athanred coins" for every successful attempt of double-spending any coins. So what? You can't stop people from making altcoins, even if they are stupid, or harmful.

this would only be a risk IF you start moving coins on the Lukecoin blockchain

If you use already splitted coins, then the risk is very low. Unless you think, that BIP-110 supporters will decide to reorg their own chain, and send their coinbase rewards to the same mining pools, which produced non-BIP-110 blocks. Because only then they could unsplit some coins: by producing a matching transaction IDs on both chains, to make the same signatures valid on both chains.

[Wind_FURY]

~

There's a higher probability for Luke Dash Jr. to get some of the 200 Bitcoin that he lost by having some sort of premine of filterboicoin then selling that to the BIP-110 cult followers than trying to "burn everything" by destroying Bitcoin.

If you're right about his agenda, then he himself lost the plot by believing that a small group of PLEBS in the internet could take Bitcoin down.

Maybe that was the plan when it started
This can't be the plan now, he yelled so much against people taking over, dictatorship in core, the mining monopoly, all that stuff, he has advocated so much for the plebs, that this is their chain and so on, the moment he tries to pull this card out of the hat is the moment he gets eaten alive.
I'm pretty sure even he is surprised what charcters his has given birth to, at this point he must act like a politician, he must go with his followers as there is no turning back, even if the train is on fire and is going 200 miles an hour on a track that has just one more mile

Probably he has thought of something smart before being drowned in stupid...

Anyhow, do they have a plan for what they are going to do in September or it's just "we switch to blake and God will guide us for the rest" ?

Although, it's probably also THIS "plan"? There's probably more ways Luke could get his 200 Bitcoin back, no?

   

I thought my theory that Luke Dash Jr. turning into a nefarious entity to get his 200 Bitcoin back was an original idea.

Just floating this theory…

1. Lose ~200 btc in a server hack

2. Buy up a bunch of Siacoin ASICs

3. Launch a UASF that has no prayer of success, but that helps you assemble a large cult of naive plebs

4. Announce that you’re launching a new fork that uses the same mining algo Siacoin does

5. Encourage your cult to buy your new token, the “real Bitcoin”

6. As the biggest miner on the network, mine ~50% of the blocks

7. Dump ~200 coins a day on an exchange. Even if they are only worth 1% of BTC, that’s $130k/day out of cultist  pockets and into yours

8. Hope you can keep the pump-and-dump going for a few months, that should be enough to recoup the $10m - 20m stolen from you.

That like a pretty good plan, doesn’t it?🤔

https://x.com/rleder/status/2089745085202108499

[DaveF]

I thought my theory that Luke Dash Jr. turning into a nefarious entity to get his 200 Bitcoin back was an original idea.

Willie Sutton: "Why do I rob banks?, Because that is where the money is"

He denied saying it but it's still a great quote.

The problem is now luke would be going after people with very little BTC. People who for some reason think running a node should be cheap and they should not have to pay 10's a dollars to buy a 2TB drive.
Or that there is some mining cartel or something.

He could have just sat there and made money skimming the % from ocean. And / or done some back end fuckery to redirect some hash.

Yes, I do think that this entire thing is *in part* related to him getting some of his BTC / net worth back.
But I think that the larger part is him going down a long road of wanting vindication about he was correct and everyone else is wrong.

Either way 11 more days and they are completely an alt coin.

Still wonder if any CEX or DEX is going to list it.

-Dave

[NotFuzzyWarm]

To say the least, things are not going well for the Lukecoin folks... https://news.bitcoin.com/featured/bip-110-breakaway-chain-faces-a-long-fight-to-survive/

In other news, seems Luke and a few others are taking sabbaticals away from Ocean... https://news.bitcoin.com/crypto-news/luke-dashjr-comms-chief-step-away-from-dorsey-backed-mining-pool-ocean/

[takuma sato]

I thought my theory that Luke Dash Jr. turning into a nefarious entity to get his 200 Bitcoin back was an original idea.

Willie Sutton: "Why do I rob banks?, Because that is where the money is"

He denied saying it but it's still a great quote.

The problem is now luke would be going after people with very little BTC. People who for some reason think running a node should be cheap and they should not have to pay 10's a dollars to buy a 2TB drive.
Or that there is some mining cartel or something.

He could have just sat there and made money skimming the % from ocean. And / or done some back end fuckery to redirect some hash.

Yes, I do think that this entire thing is *in part* related to him getting some of his BTC / net worth back.
But I think that the larger part is him going down a long road of wanting vindication about he was correct and everyone else is wrong.

Either way 11 more days and they are completely an alt coin.

Still wonder if any CEX or DEX is going to list it.

-Dave

You don't need to agree with Luke's hard fork adventure to defend a lightweight node running experience, which is a key part of keeping the network decentralized. Also it's not only space but the increasingly complex computing power needed as all these convoluted uses of UTXOs need you to have more RAM to run the nodes as well as CPU power. And as far as the fork replay protection attack goes, my conclusion is, just do nothing, do not interact with the other chain.

And from what I've heard by Mathew Kratters lately, lack of replay protection was a temporary thing and when the PoW change happens and they "actually fork" then there will be replay protection and you could safely dump the fork's coin if any exchanges list it safely in theory, no different from BSV or BCH back then. I will not even bother personally.

[DaveF]

You don't need to agree with Luke's hard fork adventure to defend a lightweight node running experience, which is a key part of keeping the network decentralized. Also it's not only space but the increasingly complex computing power needed as all these convoluted uses of UTXOs need you to have more RAM to run the nodes as well as CPU power. And as far as the fork replay protection attack goes, my conclusion is, just do nothing, do not interact with the other chain.

And from what I've heard by Mathew Kratters lately, lack of replay protection was a temporary thing and when the PoW change happens and they "actually fork" then there will be replay protection and you could safely dump the fork's coin if any exchanges list it safely in theory, no different from BSV or BCH back then. I will not even bother personally.

Nope. Wrong.
1st of all 110 is going to have more UTXOs to be stored forever more then likely. With the shrinking of the limits that they did it's now cheaper to keep stuff there instead of op_return

RAM & CPU have very little to do with it after IBD.

As I and others have pointed out a 6th gen i5 PC with 8GB of RAM is more then capable of running a full node.
Yes doing an IBD on a spinning drive with that setup is not fun or quick. But, it's still a set it and forget it thing.

At this point you need a 2TB drive for the OS & BTC node. You can squeeze it on a 1TB but not for long. Assuming full blocks from here on out you are still years and years and years away from needing to go over 2TB.

Saying anything about the hardware for running a node is disingenuous at best and flat out BS for the most part.

-Dave

[ABCbits]

Also it's not only space but the increasingly complex computing power needed as all these convoluted uses of UTXOs need you to have more RAM to run the nodes as well as CPU power.

There's nothing convoluted or complex UTXO created by TX that intend to add arbitrary data. All UTXO are stored with same way with nearly identical size, where certain locking script uses more bytes. Most of the issue people face when running or syncing node comes from many new UTXO created during Ordinal hype.

And from what I've heard by Mathew Kratters lately, lack of replay protection was a temporary thing and when the PoW change happens and they "actually fork" then there will be replay protection and you could safely dump the fork's coin if any exchanges list it safely in theory, no different from BSV or BCH back then. I will not even bother personally.

Luke says there's plan to add replay protection on upcoming PoW change.

This is a hardfork for Bitcoin, not an altcoin. It would be a major issue if legitimate transactions became invalid. The burden to implement replay protection falls to Spamcoin that just airdropped incompetently.

That being said, once RDTS is active (#358 includes that in the hardfork), you can just make 84-byte OP_RETURNs to prevent altcoin transactions from being valid on Bitcoin.

In case it's not obvious, "spamcoin" and "altcoin" refer to coin in non BIP 110 chain (that most of us call it Bitcoin), while "Bitcoin" refer to coin in BIP 110 chain.

[Wind_FURY]

I thought my theory that Luke Dash Jr. turning into a nefarious entity to get his 200 Bitcoin back was an original idea.

Willie Sutton: "Why do I rob banks?, Because that is where the money is"

He denied saying it but it's still a great quote.

The problem is now luke would be going after people with very little BTC. People who for some reason think running a node should be cheap and they should not have to pay 10's a dollars to buy a 2TB drive.
Or that there is some mining cartel or something.

He could have just sat there and made money skimming the % from ocean. And / or done some back end fuckery to redirect some hash.

Yes, I do think that this entire thing is *in part* related to him getting some of his BTC / net worth back.
But I think that the larger part is him going down a long road of wanting vindication about he was correct and everyone else is wrong.

Either way 11 more days and they are completely an alt coin.

Still wonder if any CEX or DEX is going to list it.

-Dave

Although I don't support Luke Dash Jr.'s actions behind BIP-110, I don't have ANY sympathy for those people who are currently supporting him, and behaving like they're morally above everyone in the Bitcoin community.

If they lose their Bitcoin to a nefarious entity, then that's will be their HARD LESSON to learn from.

[DaveF]

Although I don't support Luke Dash Jr.'s actions behind BIP-110, I don't have ANY sympathy for those people who are currently supporting him, and behaving like they're morally above everyone in the Bitcoin community.

If they lose their Bitcoin to a nefarious entity, then that's will be their HARD LESSON to learn from.

Agreed, I have said it many times. I really don't care if these people loose all their BTC.
Heck, I hope they loose everything.
If you don't want to learn how thins work, and follow something that everyone is telling you is wrong except for a few people then as the saying goes. "Sucks to be you"

Now, I know it's not the reason, but we can torment them saying "Look, now that it's obvious that you are forking off and leaving the price of BTC has gone back up over 20%, that is how wrong you are"  I know that is not the reason why the price is spiked, but it follows their insane lack of logic.

-Dave

[stompix]

oh ye of little faith one must follow the savior til the end.

Pretty much  

Just floating this theory…
~
1. Lose ~200 btc in a server hack
2. Buy up a bunch of Siacoin ASICs

1) is losing 12 mils
2) needs 12 mils

See the problem?  
If he had money to spend on ASICs, he would have spent it on S23Us

Also, the math is really bad there, if he earns 130k a day, which would be before electricity and well, as a former miner that went out of business because of this, I don't even want to recall all the other shit involved, it will still take him like ages to recover that, plus, he needs a business partner, even 100 Asics are not a one man operation so this is splitting the money
My opinion is that he would still have been way better with a onlyfans , uff my bad, livestream donations

You don't need to agree with Luke's hard fork adventure to defend a lightweight node running experience, which is a key part of keeping the network decentralized. Also it's not only space but the increasingly complex computing power needed as all these convoluted uses of UTXOs need you to have more RAM to run the nodes as well as CPU power.

The moment you want to challenge the multi-trillion banking industry but you can't get 10k people out of 8 billion to spend $500 on a node is the moment you lost.

[MoparMiningLLC]

have seen on Twitter - there is yet another fork - this one forked off from BIP110 - called Bitcoin Purity

https://mempool.bitcoinpurity.org/

so this is what now? 3 forks?

BIP110 SF with upcoming HF, Bitcoin Purity and the upcoming HF eCash (not to be confused with existing eCash)?

[DaveF]

have seen on Twitter - there is yet another fork - this one forked off from BIP110 - called Bitcoin Purity

https://mempool.bitcoinpurity.org/

so this is what now? 3 forks?

BIP110 SF with upcoming HF, Bitcoin Purity and the upcoming HF eCash (not to be confused with existing eCash)?

We're going to party like it's 1999 2017
It's the fork explosion all over again.

Has anyone heard anything about the Paul Sztorc / drivechain / eCash fork?
Did a quick google on it and found just about nothing. But as I say a lot of times, didn't look that hard since I don't care that much.

-Dave

[MoparMiningLLC]

I read it was slated for oct 31st for the eCash HF - but cant find where I read it at now lol twitter shit gets lost so easily.