BIP-110 Split

[stompix]

Failing that kind of live calibration they could instead take the recent hashrate on their fork (about 7 EH per ocean stats), convert that to power usage (about 100 MW conservatively), then convert that to hashrate with the asics available for their new work function (works out to maybe 500 PH).   It might still be way off, but it could be a starting point for a system that could recover on its own.   If they're not able to get 100MW on their "real bitcoin" they can't really sustain those claims.

No way in hell are there at least 10k ASICs from 2018-2019 able to mine on blacke2b still working on this entire planet and no way in hell is Goldshell being able to pump out 20-30k SC5 units right now, you have to pay those fabs in advance now and still wait in line  and by the time you have the chips there might be no buyers.

They will put a target at a maximum of 1.5x the total hash rate available now for Sia, which is about 10Ph/s and maybe even lower than, I mean, you can't be dumb enough to risk a force adjustment and end up with a stalled chain again....

Always a nutcase villain:
https://postimg.cc/YhnxDCPq
https://postimg.cc/cr9ckLzg
https://i.postimg.cc/Df4XWBB9/involving-a-child-not-a-young-adult.png
https://postimg.cc/VdLRFCKS

-Dave

So, any method to get these inscribed in a block (when it's mined) on their spam-free chain?  

[DaveF]

Since they are forking to another algo to mine and making other changes can we please move all of the 110 discussions to the altcoin sections now?

Who remembers how the Bitcoin Cash discussion evolved here? Did it initially take place in the main sections, and then all BCH-related threads were moved to Alternative Cryptocurrencies? Or were new threads created there, while the old ones in the Bitcoin sections just gradually died down?

More or less were always in altcoin section:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2061984.0

So, any method to get these inscribed in a block (when it's mined) on their spam-free chain?  

Many, just about all inscriptions will work with 110. Would wait for them to get the chain moving and then you can split your coins and spend them to push images into the 110 blocks. But there is probably going to be a lot of competition to do it.

Probably the only thing that is really going to be happening on it since nobody outside of lukes group seem to even care about it.

-Dave

[gmaxwell]

They will put a target at a maximum of 1.5x the total hash rate available now for Sia, which is about 10Ph/s and maybe even lower than, I mean, you can't be dumb enough to risk a force adjustment and end up with a stalled chain again....

They're not using SIA's hashfunction: their (presumably rigged) selection selected blake2b. Sia previously hardforked to move off blake2b to blake2b-sia.  I think the goldshell miners you mentioned are blake2b-sia only though there are blake2b asics from before the sia hardfork (and I think some other altcoins).  

As far as it being on-topic, the split issues e.g. fork point, replay protection or lack there of are of interest, particularly as we may need to give advice on how to not lose your bitcoins dumping this stuff assuming it ever gets any exchange support or a market price.

On that subject: they're going with the original fork point so it launched without any replay protection at all, and it sounds like they're going to only implement one-way optional replay protection with a specific and express goal of disrupting bitcoin users.  Of course, this greatly increases the odds that it never has meaningful economic value or exchange adoption.

[pooya87]

Considering how things developed (no replay protection, no exchange listing, etc.) I've got a feeling that they might have gotten caught up inside their own "echo-chambers" that became delusional enough to think that the Bitcoin community would just abandon its own principles and accept their malicious ultra-minority chain as the "Bitcoin Chain"!

Now that they're out of the echo-chamber, they're beginning to face reality with their shit-chain stuck.

[Danish Ali]

Now that they're out of the echo-chamber, they're beginning to face reality with their shit-chain stuck.

There is one thing I would point out in that comparison, though, this is not quite the same failure mode as the Bitcoin Cash split was. At least BCH did try to get exchange listings early – as pointed out in this thread (pooya87), and if you think about it, they should have done what Bcash did, an exchange listing before the split, not after.

What they did not do is even make that effort, as per gmaxwell comment above, they did not do any proper replay protection, and one way replay protection was designed to aggravate bitcoin users. It is not a movement an “echo chamber” just falls into, it feels like the chain was more conceived as a tool for disruption, and a usable financial asset comes second, if at all.

So the "facing reality" moment is not about their perception that community will not accept them, but it is because there is one door BCH was able to walk through, and they just could not credibly walk through that same door. Combined with the statement earlier about PoW mathematically removing the possibility to ‘course-correct' back to any previous state once the split has been made, it is not a ‘chain' that can ‘course-correct' its way out in the end, the ‘course-correct' was not in the design.

[DaveF]

They will put a target at a maximum of 1.5x the total hash rate available now for Sia, which is about 10Ph/s and maybe even lower than, I mean, you can't be dumb enough to risk a force adjustment and end up with a stalled chain again....

They're not using SIA's hashfunction: their (presumably rigged) selection selected blake2b. Sia previously hardforked to move off blake2b to blake2b-sia.  I think the goldshell miners you mentioned are blake2b-sia only though there are blake2b asics from before the sia hardfork (and I think some other altcoins).  

As far as it being on-topic, the split issues e.g. fork point, replay protection or lack there of are of interest, particularly as we may need to give advice on how to not lose your bitcoins dumping this stuff assuming it ever gets any exchange support or a market price.

On that subject: they're going with the original fork point so it launched without any replay protection at all, and it sounds like they're going to only implement one-way optional replay protection with a specific and express goal of disrupting bitcoin users.  Of course, this greatly increases the odds that it never has meaningful economic value or exchange adoption.

A discussion on how to avoid loosing coins may be appropriate in the BTC sections.  Probably start the post with a guide or two on how to do it and then options and help. But, not anything else all this discussion although enjoyable should be in the alt section. 

As I said Greg, you are a better person then me. Let the 110 people loose it all.

I don't care anymore. Let the 110 users loose everything and live homeless under a bridge.

As for the blake2b, yeah the original ASICs for that are probably 8+ years old at this point with some newer ones coming out over the years. One of them be it luke or one of his people probably got a great deal from someplace on them since at this point they really are only used for some tiny worthless alts. Which when you think about it is what 110 is.

Enjoy the weekend all. Go outside, touch some grass, relax. It's been a week since they forked off, 110 is now just a zombie corpse, let the 110 supporters spend the weekend posting memes on X and Reddit. We don't really have to think about them anymore.

-Dave

[Wind_FURY]

the worst part is all the FUD he is spreading - stating that Knots/BIP110 is the valid Bitcoin and all the miners colluded to fork off and that what we call Bitcoin is really the forked shitcoin.

niave people are believing him because of who he is.

a very good reason not to have heros - at some point they all become villians.

Who said that? Luke Dash Jr.? Laughable. He's a scammer now. It's not a month yet, and I believe that some people in the filterboi community have started to be against him because Luke wants a POW change, and fork away from what they call "the legacy chain".

 

Plus didn't some filterbois call their UASF the most important Bitcoin event since SegWit?

Spend some time on their subreddit bitcoinismoney or reading their twitter feeds.
It's worth it for the laughs. It's a true cult at this point.

But as said by others at this point no legit exchange is going to touch it. Some of the fringe ones might because they really don't care about getting hit with lawsuits.

I figure the supporters are going to get hit with tons of donation requests by the miners to "keep things going" while they work on it.

Or the other claims about people attacking them and they need money.
Whatever.

Since they are forking to another algo to mine and making other changes can we please move all of the 110 discussions to the altcoin sections now?
This way they can just fade away into obscurity like all the other forks.

I mean, we can still keep posting about it and laughing at them but at least it will not be showing on the main boards.

-Dave

I did as well, and their PLEBS are probably the most stupid group of PLEBS in the whole crypto community. Our fellow PLEBS in BitcoinTalk have at least a basic understanding of Bitcoin's economics, of its incentive structure, and the game-theory behind why it works.

The filterboi PLEBS actually believe that their beliefs could bend the laws of Physics, and force the miners to accept less incentives and join them. LAUGHABLE.

 

[pooya87]

A discussion on how to avoid loosing coins may be appropriate in the BTC sections.  Probably start the post with a guide or two on how to do it and then options and help.

There is not much to say in such a topic though. At this point bluke is basically a dead chain, I don't think there is any point in creating and broadcasting a transaction that is not going to get confirmed for weeks if ever. There is also no place to send it since it is not listed on any exchanges and is pretty much useless.

I think we should wait and see what Luke is gonna do with bluke coin and then create guides. Other than that, there are bunch of topics from years ago written about bcash and other bcopies that are valid for bluke as well.

Enjoy the weekend all. Go outside, touch some grass, relax.

Man... it's almost 40°C outside and the grass is on fire
I'd rather sit close to my A.C. with some cold beverage.

[MoparMiningLLC]

has anyone else seen this? Luke is off his rocker.

claiming that the BIP110 HF coming in September switching the algorithm to Blake2b is actual "real" Bitcoin

man is seriously delusional

[ABCbits]

has anyone else seen this? Luke is off his rocker.

claiming that the BIP110 HF coming in September switching the algorithm to Blake2b is actual "real" Bitcoin

man is seriously delusional

It's planned for next month, but https://github.com/bitcoinknots/bitcoin/pull/359 shows that code isn't ready yet. I also find the algorithm choice is odd. It's not ASIC resistant, but at same time https://www.asicminervalue.com/efficiency/blake2b shows last Blake2b ASIC released in 2019.

[Wind_FURY]

has anyone else seen this? Luke is off his rocker.

claiming that the BIP110 HF coming in September switching the algorithm to Blake2b is actual "real" Bitcoin

man is seriously delusional

?

WHY DESTROY HIS OWN REPUTATION?

He probably wants the 200 Bitcoin that was stolen from him back, and he will do anything to get it back - even if it turns him into a villain? Because what is his actual incentive in this situation? High probability it's ALWAYS money/financial.

[stompix]

has anyone else seen this? Luke is off his rocker.

I'm surprised he didn't use Bpedo for the chart:

https://x.com/LukeDashjr/status/2087581635294470415

Facts:
1) Saturday, bad actors attempted a contentious hardfork with the purpose of forcing users to distribute CSAM. This spawned a new scamcoin with an airdrop (I call Bpedo).
2) Most formerly Bitcoin pools (a small handful of people) then began to attack the Bitcoin network to try to deceive the world into thinking Bpedo is "the real Bitcoin".

https://x.com/LukeDashjr/status/2086941843703353465

Do realize that Bpedo (or Corecoin, or whatever you want to call it) is _exactly_ what "Segwit2X" and BCash would have looked like if the miners went along with them.

He lost it completely!

WHY DESTROY HIS OWN REPUTATION?
He probably wants the 200 Bitcoin that was stolen from him back, and he will do anything to get it back - even if it turns him into a villain?

Nope, he wants everything to burn because he lost his coins!
This is not about "cleaning" Bitcoin, this is about trying to screw everyone!

[pooya87]

has anyone else seen this? Luke is off his rocker.

claiming that the BIP110 HF coming in September switching the algorithm to Blake2b is actual "real" Bitcoin

man is seriously delusional

He is actually proving one of the most important principles of Bitcoin which is it's decentralization and this other little thing called consensus. He is singlehandedly proving that they work very well.

In a decentralized world, anybody can copy the code, copy the entire blockchain, modify the protocol any way they wish and create a fork. Nobody can prevent that. There is no centralized authority and no "protocol owner" that can take them to court for having changed the code. The network decides everything through consensus.

That's the beauty of what Satoshi Nakamoto invented more than 17 years ago. The supermajority will decide what bitcoin is and what is not. And the network has spoken very loudly when nobody even bothered to mine Lukecoin (by the way I say we call it Lukecoin from now on and not B.I.P.-110 as in Bitcoin Improvement Proposal).

The longest chain not only serves as proof of the sequence of events witnessed, but proof that it came from the largest pool of CPU power. As long as a majority of CPU power is controlled by nodes that are not cooperating to attack the network, they'll generate the longest chain and outpace attackers.

We have outpaced attackers and will continue doing so.

[takuma sato]

They will put a target at a maximum of 1.5x the total hash rate available now for Sia, which is about 10Ph/s and maybe even lower than, I mean, you can't be dumb enough to risk a force adjustment and end up with a stalled chain again....

They're not using SIA's hashfunction: their (presumably rigged) selection selected blake2b. Sia previously hardforked to move off blake2b to blake2b-sia.  I think the goldshell miners you mentioned are blake2b-sia only though there are blake2b asics from before the sia hardfork (and I think some other altcoins).  

As far as it being on-topic, the split issues e.g. fork point, replay protection or lack there of are of interest, particularly as we may need to give advice on how to not lose your bitcoins dumping this stuff assuming it ever gets any exchange support or a market price.

On that subject: they're going with the original fork point so it launched without any replay protection at all, and it sounds like they're going to only implement one-way optional replay protection with a specific and express goal of disrupting bitcoin users.  Of course, this greatly increases the odds that it never has meaningful economic value or exchange adoption.

I don't get it. Why they didn't implement replay protection? isn't this considered a standard safety measure when forking? As far as I remember none of the previous forks, including BCH, BSV and "Bitcoin Gold" (whatever the ticker was) would ever put you in a situation where you would be at risk of moving coins on chain A that also move at the same time on chain B or have some sort of risk of the same transaction happening twice at some point because it was separated.

So how does one stay away from any of this? Is this temporary and when in september they launch the new PoW thing, then this gets solved? Or does it stay like this? I saw a video on Mathew Krammer's YouTube channel and said they recommended not to move any coins for now until "this resolves".

I never accessed any of the forked coins for safety's sake, but this time im not even sure if doing transactions on the BTC blockchain would put one at risk at least until this fully resolves, so im just not going to be doing any transactions for at least until October and I guess by then everything will be clear. As far as value of the Blakecoin, im assuming it's not going to have any liquidity on exchanges. It would be great that Ordinals were not a thing and only monetary transactions were allowed on the BTC chain but im not taking the risk of a hardfork with no support so I will not do anything for a month and run Bitcoin Core 29.4.

[nc50lc]

So how does one stay away from any of this? Is this temporary and when in september they launch the new PoW thing, then this gets solved? Or does it stay like this? I saw a video on Mathew Krammer's YouTube channel and said they recommended not to move any coins for now until "this resolves".

Looks like they're talking about which chain would be the real Bitcoin by saying "until this resolves".
In that case, it's already resolved and Knots' chain is an Altcoin.
Because when a user still don't know which will be "Bitcoin" (although obvious), he might be opening himself for replay attack in the Bitcoin chain after he moved a coin on the chain that'll be an altcoin.
The recommendation is most likely for users who don't know what they're doing.

For the replay issue, it's only per UTXO that's existing in both chains.
Not its children after you managed to "split" it.

For example:
UTXO- "0123456:0" is in Bitcoin and Knots chain since it remained unspent before the fork.
You spent it in Bitcoin blockchain creating new UTXO- "0000001:0" in Bitcoin Blockchain.
Then, the transaction above is not replayed in Knots blockchain and you spent it with a different output, creating a new UTXO- "1111112:0" in Knots Blockchain.
With that, UTXO- "0123456:0" is now spent in both chains.

The newly created UTXO ("0000001:0" and "1111112:0") are exclusive in their respective chains since those are created after the fork.
So, replaying the transactions that will spend those will be invalid in the other chain because the UTXO used as in its input doesn't exist there.
This applies to those UTXO's children as well.

The edge case here is if the newly created UTXO is exactly the same in both chains.
That could happen in you use the exact same output, amounts, and everything in the transaction that will produce the same hash,
basically replaying your own transaction from the other chain so the new UTXO is still the same in both chains.

I don't get it. Why they didn't implement replay protection? isn't this considered a standard safety measure when forking?

If one is in a delusion that its blockchain will be the real "Bitcoin", enabling replay protection wouldn't be necessary since other clients would be forking away instead in that mindset.

[ABCbits]

I don't get it. Why they didn't implement replay protection? isn't this considered a standard safety measure when forking? As far as I remember none of the previous forks, including BCH, BSV and "Bitcoin Gold" (whatever the ticker was) would ever put you in a situation where you would be at risk of moving coins on chain A that also move at the same time on chain B or have some sort of risk of the same transaction happening twice at some point because it was separated.

Because they're crazy.

Knots is on the main chain. SHA2 ex-miners are attempting a hostile contentious hardfork, and fooling users without a full node. Giving in to their attack is just insanity. Hashpower is NOT king.

This is a hardfork for Bitcoin, not an altcoin. It would be a major issue if legitimate transactions became invalid. The burden to implement replay protection falls to Spamcoin that just airdropped incompetently.

He claim BIP 110 chain as main or Bitcoin chain and falsely claim Bitcoin (non BIP 110) chain is the one that perform fork as justification of not adding replay protection and other change.

So how does one stay away from any of this? Is this temporary and when in september they launch the new PoW thing, then this gets solved? Or does it stay like this? I saw a video on Mathew Krammer's YouTube channel and said they recommended not to move any coins for now until "this resolves".

As stated on other thread, move your Bitcoin with TX that violate BIP 110. That way, your TX won't be relayed by BIP 110 nodes. Theoretically miner can manually include such TX before BIP 110 rule is enforced, but the odds is very low.

[athanred]

Why they didn't implement replay protection?

Because they don't have to. Just use anything, what is blocked by BIP-110, for example P2PK, or OP_RETURN with 84 bytes, and then your coins will be splitted.

Or, you can also use any already splitted coins. If something is included in one of those BIP-110 blocks, then they won't include any conflicting transaction later. And it is quite unlikely, that they will reorg these Roughnecks blocks, after Proof of Work change.

[Wind_FURY]

WHY DESTROY HIS OWN REPUTATION?

He probably wants the 200 Bitcoin that was stolen from him back, and he will do anything to get it back - even if it turns him into a villain?

Nope, he wants everything to burn because he lost his coins!
This is not about "cleaning" Bitcoin, this is about trying to screw everyone!

There's a higher probability for Luke Dash Jr. to get some of the 200 Bitcoin that he lost by having some sort of premine of filterboicoin then selling that to the BIP-110 cult followers than trying to "burn everything" by destroying Bitcoin.

If you're right about his agenda, then he himself lost the plot by believing that a small group of PLEBS in the internet could take Bitcoin down.

[Andrew_W]

man i feel u, same tx in two blocks sounds like cheating lol. i'd be confused too. hope someone breaks it down simple. respect for digging into this stuff.

[MoparMiningLLC]

has anyone else seen this? Luke is off his rocker.

claiming that the BIP110 HF coming in September switching the algorithm to Blake2b is actual "real" Bitcoin

man is seriously delusional

It's planned for next month, but https://github.com/bitcoinknots/bitcoin/pull/359 shows that code isn't ready yet. I also find the algorithm choice is odd. It's not ASIC resistant, but at same time https://www.asicminervalue.com/efficiency/blake2b shows last Blake2b ASIC released in 2019.

no issue with him doing a HF to make his own shitcoin - the issue is with his attempt at re-writing reality and acting as if his posts make it real.

?

WHY DESTROY HIS OWN REPUTATION?

He probably wants the 200 Bitcoin that was stolen from him back, and he will do anything to get it back - even if it turns him into a villain? Because what is his actual incentive in this situation? High probability it's ALWAYS money/financial.

agreed 100%