Can Provably Fair games still be rigged?

[Livingleged]

Is there even anything as provably fair game as regards the casino’s? I really doubt. I’m a believer that everything about casinos is built based on randomness,I suppose that’s the fairness you’re referring to, and that’s why winnings happen. However I find it difficult to balance my belief with idea that the casinos are built in such away the outcome favours the house always.
With this I don’t think there is any form of manipulation if we’re agreeing that everything is based on randomness but I’m open to you guys point of views.

[Bigjoe33]

When we say that a game is probably fair, what is meant is that the outcome of that particular game was generated from the committed inputs and was not actually altered afterwards, but does that automatically prove that the entire game or the subsequent input’s implementation is or will be honest? Definitely not. There could still be subsequent manipulations in the payout logics, probability mappings, and several other areas in or outside of the seed generation process. So probably fair doesn’t automatically mean a game cannot be rigged.

Yea, for the fact that these gambling sites or a gambling company is created sorely for profit, gives me the right to this k otherwise and not trust any of there dealings. Facially, it could look very much fair and clean, reproducing the main results, but somehow, there could still be a temper from the inside based on there programming or any means they have set to rig or manipulate the final results. Thus, gambling is all risky, and gamblers should be ready to accept what they see, as they themselves are also out for our money.

[Patikno]

Not because a game is provably fair and the seed can be verified means it is already completely free from manipulation.

I was reading about this and I was surprised that manipulation can still be possible even when the seed and hash check out. I won't put here what I read for now because I want to see what you guys know about it. Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

Speaking of possibilities, I think a game that "claims" to offer a provably fair system could still be manipulated, especially when it comes to proprietary or "original" games. That said, I haven't actually seen any specific cases of cheating involving rigged games, or instances where manipulation was definitively proven. I think determining this with certainty requires deeper technical knowledge, which is likely why there are sites offering casino auditing services to conduct comprehensive analyses.

[Itz-prisigold]

Is there even anything as provably fair game as regards the casino’s? I really doubt. I’m a believer that everything about casinos is built based on randomness,I suppose that’s the fairness you’re referring to, and that’s why winnings happen. However I find it difficult to balance my belief with idea that the casinos are built in such away the outcome favours the house always.
With this I don’t think there is any form of manipulation if we’re agreeing that everything is based on randomness but I’m open to you guys point of views.

Personally, I also believe that a casino is mostly designed to favour the casino more than the users. Because everything that happens and even each results of every game is controlled by the casino, so we don't really know what happens behind those close doors. Things can easily be manipulated because it's difficult to know what is happening.

Some months ago, I decided to play ludo on the gambling site just to kill boredom, ludo is a game that is quite common in my country so I already know how to play it. The casino will pair you with other players, but after playing for a while, I later discovered that this gamble site have a way of favouring some players. No matter how good you play or how good your strategy is, you'll never win. But this casino calmed the game was provably fair, when you can clearly see that the game is always been rigged. So now I'm asking myself what provably fair really covers?

[Bright0515]

Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

Funny how many people start to think whenever they bet conservatively but they are not winning often, so think begin to think that the casino is manipulating the results meanwhile they are not lucky.
But when they begin to win or whenever they are on winning streak they won't blame the casino or even complain to know if it's some sort of glitch or whatever.

Yea, for the fact that these gambling sites or a gambling company is created sorely for profit, gives me the right to this k otherwise and not trust any of there dealings. Facially, it could look very much fair and clean, reproducing the main results, but somehow, there could still be a temper from the inside based on there programming or any means they have set to rig or manipulate the final results. Thus, gambling is all risky, and gamblers should be ready to accept what they see, as they themselves are also out for our money.

For the fact that both players and the casino owners are there to make profits shows that both parties will take advantage of each other if there's a slight opportunity for that. Just like what I said earlier, that when a gamblers is winning consecutively they will not care to know if it's a system glitch or whatever, likewise the casino, whenever their players do not care, they will probably rigg the result on most of their games.

[goldkingcoiner]

Not because a game is provably fair and the seed can be verified means it is already completely free from manipulation.

I was reading about this and I was surprised that manipulation can still be possible even when the seed and hash check out. I won't put here what I read for now because I want to see what you guys know about it. Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

I think anything can be rigged. It really depends on how hard you try to rig it and keep it rigged without anyone, especially regulators, noticing. But if they do catch you, you can kiss your casino business goodbye. Or at the very least have to pay a fine that will hurt your pockets quite deeply.

So most big and well known casinos will not even dare to dream of trying to rig their games. They stand to make way more money by playing it fair. Or however fair they can possibly play it without getting in trouble...

[Chinesebaby]

Not because a game is provably fair and the seed can be verified means it is already completely free from manipulation.

I was reading about this and I was surprised that manipulation can still be possible even when the seed and hash check out. I won't put here what I read for now because I want to see what you guys know about it. Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

Yes, it's true that a provably fair casino game can actually be manipulated. And moreover, when a casino claims to offer a provably fair game, it simply means its game could be verified by a third party how it's random outcome is been generated per bet slip. And considering the fact that it's only the casino who has access to its back-end, it's very possible that the games outcome can be altered when a casino starts to display incorrect game mathematics, whereby the game can generate random numbers while playing, and still uses incorrect payout formala, making it possible that you can keep gambling for long, and still not win anything, simply because it's payout formala have already been altered by the casino owners. So it's actually possible that a probably fair game can be manipulated.

[alastantiger]

I was reading about this and I was surprised that manipulation can still be possible even when the seed and hash check out. I won't put here what I read for now because I want to see what you guys know about it. Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

Only if you can open your eyes to see then you will really know how the whole world is been ran then you will understand that many things we think are fair are not but instead they are rigged because there are people controlling how the world is operating. How did we come to the conclusion of 7 days in a week and 4 weeks in a month which equals to 7x4 = 28 days yet we have 30 or 31 days in a month. We just have to understand that there are many things that are not fair hence casinos or sports games can not be all fair despite how fair they look. Casinos know how to manipulate those games that you play to go in their favour not minding the unfairness and that is why they keep on making money. As you are gambling just know that it is only luck that is helping you when you win.

[Charles-Tim]

Is there even anything as provably fair game as regards the casino’s? I really doubt. I’m a believer that everything about casinos is built based on randomness,I suppose that’s the fairness you’re referring to, and that’s why winnings happen. However I find it difficult to balance my belief with idea that the casinos are built in such away the outcome favours the house always.
With this I don’t think there is any form of manipulation if we’re agreeing that everything is based on randomness but I’m open to you guys point of views.

I have posted about this several times, that there is nothing called provably fair about casinos, but some people that know the difference between provably fair and house edge are the ones that will argue but not thinking deeper. We have discussed on this forum before that about 97% of gamblers are losing every year, so what is provably fair about that.

[Donk1]

Provably fair is only there to guarantee that the gambling site did not cheat or change the result a person's game after they have placed their money. The server seed will show proof that the result was accurate, but it doesn't stop the casino from changing some stuff without you noticing.Basically they could purposely pick seed sequences that would be in their favour. Because of this the casino can easily stack the odds against players if they want to and you as a gambler would not even know it.It's more like the game rules are created to favour them only. Still when a casino sets up their platform this way they do it to protect their business. So while game might be honest, the casino already made calculations based on which setup will give them the edge. That's just how it is gambler's gamble to win and at the same time, the casino is doing that too in their own ways that's all.....

[leonair]

Not because a game is provably fair and the seed can be verified means it is already completely free from manipulation.

I was reading about this and I was surprised that manipulation can still be possible even when the seed and hash check out. I won't put here what I read for now because I want to see what you guys know about it. Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

Prabhavly Fair technology keeps records of all bets and generates cryptographic hashes so I don't think there is any chance of rigged here. Many people are very serious about Prabhavly Fair but gamblers rarely check it. I also never want to check it but when it comes to a big win and then there is some kind of problem or the casino platform presents it as a glitch then it can help to verify the validity of the bet. But I trust Prabhavly Fair and I don't think for a moment that there is any rigged here

[DiMarxist]

The question is are there games that, could be considered not not fair in sport espercially, football the truth is that all gsmes are fair and again all ganes are not even fair. The reason why i say this is that, when it comes to sport betting games are rated based on the strength and weakness of the two teams involved. This is the basis of even odds been given to the teams that are involved. And so a team with muxh better training facility, better players and even better exposure will likely with a team whose players are not that good and with less equipment.

Another point we should consider too is that, with the current state of the sporting industry we we are having , allegations of favoritism even coming from various sporting bodies , most espercially football using the just concluded world cup as example. One is tempted to say that there is high level of interest and when there is an interest coming from even organisers of sporting events. The probability of duch an event or game been fair will be low.

Lastly we should also know that this is sport, and in sport you dont expect gsmes to go as expected no matter how good a team is there is always the elements of surprice which can rise up. So this is a very sensible topic that has different sides to it.

[Churchillvv]

This is where backends comes in, the casino could have a back door where they can manipulate what the outcome of a game would and a prepare seeds for each other the outcome they want to give it and then give you a provable fair game. I believe once the gamblers seed is checked and it seem to be correct it could be at exact thing they want you to see that would be displayed but however we are making guesses here I would really want to see someone who is in to it to explain outrightly if it’s possible or not.

[Odohu]

Not because a game is provably fair and the seed can be verified means it is already completely free from manipulation.

I was reading about this and I was surprised that manipulation can still be possible even when the seed and hash check out. I won't put here what I read for now because I want to see what you guys know about it. Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

This is not impossible because a lot of things can happen in this digital age. What I do find somehow difficult to comprehend is at what point will the games be rigged considering that the providers are different from the casino operators. Are you saying that both of them will collude to rig the game against the gamblers? Or could it be that the casino operators can tamper with the game without the knowledge of the providers? I really want to know what point the game is rigged based on what you have read.

[DPHOR]

This is where backends comes in, the casino could have a back door where they can manipulate what the outcome of a game would and a prepare seeds for each other the outcome they want to give it and then give you a provable fair game. I believe once the gamblers seed is checked and it seem to be correct it could be at exact thing they want you to see that would be displayed but however we are making guesses here I would really want to see someone who is in to it to explain outrightly if it’s possible or not.

I do not really see that there is no possibility to what the OP outrightly said about.
Nowadays I strongly believe that casino or gambling site to make sure they do whatever they felt like, so that they could be on more profits where they would say they are probably fair and at last they are not what they proves to be.
I am not much diversed into much of how casinos works at the backend.

[adultcrypto]

Not because a game is provably fair and the seed can be verified means it is already completely free from manipulation.

I was reading about this and I was surprised that manipulation can still be possible even when the seed and hash check out. I won't put here what I read for now because I want to see what you guys know about it. Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

Do not let us be deceiving ourselves, the gambling sites are using the house edge to take advantage of gamblers, but it is not manipulation because the gamblers know about it. If you can check a game seed, it means no manipulation if there is no manipulation after you check the seed and see no manipulation.

A gambling site is always profitable if they have customers.

We know about the house edge but I think it is a different thing the OP is saying. Are you of the opinion that apart from the house edge that provably fair games cannot be manipulated? If the answer is a yes, then the OP have to refer to the document he read that says otherwise. I also do not want to believe that provably fair games can be manipulated for the sake of my sanity because if I have the mindset that they are manipulated as well, I may not have the confidence to play the games.

[MRY]

Not because a game is provably fair and the seed can be verified means it is already completely free from manipulation.

I was reading about this and I was surprised that manipulation can still be possible even when the seed and hash check out. I won't put here what I read for now because I want to see what you guys know about it. Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

This is not impossible because a lot of things can happen in this digital age. What I do find somehow difficult to comprehend is at what point will the games be rigged considering that the providers are different from the casino operators. Are you saying that both of them will collude to rig the game against the gamblers? Or could it be that the casino operators can tamper with the game without the knowledge of the providers? I really want to know what point the game is rigged based on what you have read.

Provided the design of current digital systems forbids access to the codebase by the administrators, there is a classic manipulation leak when a malicious site redirects access to a self provisioned fake server.

The results of this program cloning allow unscrupulous operators full power to distort the results. One of the factors that can be used to ascertain the legitimacy of a digital game round are the authenticity of the official server connection.

[EluguHcman]

Not because a game is provably fair and the seed can be verified means it is already completely free from manipulation.

I was reading about this and I was surprised that manipulation can still be possible even when the seed and hash check out. I won't put here what I read for now because I want to see what you guys know about it. Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

A lot pondering in my head like I will be glad if you can on your own tell me or us what it means for games or casino sites to be provably fair. I guess the best moments to give casino that remark or complement of being fair is when our winning luck is shining and withdrawal also goes smoothly.

There is no guaranteed provable that a casino is fair.
You just have to read the sites terms and conditions including bonus and service offers carefully and if it suits you and you give their service try and no complains after much long term experience, you can probably say the casino is fair.
Of course transparency is highly considered too.

[lombok]

Not because a game is provably fair and the seed can be verified means it is already completely free from manipulation.

I was reading about this and I was surprised that manipulation can still be possible even when the seed and hash check out. I won't put here what I read for now because I want to see what you guys know about it. Do you think a provably fair game can still be manipulated even if everything looks valid when you verify it?

A lot pondering in my head like I will be glad if you can on your own tell me or us what it means for games or casino sites to be provably fair. I guess the best moments to give casino that remark or complement of being fair is when our winning luck is shining and withdrawal also goes smoothly.

There is no guaranteed provable that a casino is fair.
You just have to read the sites terms and conditions including bonus and service offers carefully and if it suits you and you give their service try and no complains after much long term experience, you can probably say the casino is fair.
Of course transparency is highly considered too.

The idea of provably fair is the cryptographic algorithmic scheme that is independent of being able to verify the results of betting. Prior to round, the provider and the player combine secret random codes so as to keep the dealer unchanging the result.

Whereas payout that succeed are gratifying, honest fairness lies in the goodness of mathematical formula. This computer transparency verifies that the round of the game are balanced and do not have any manipulation by the games management within the casino.

[uneng]

Well, if it cannot be proven fair then it is not provably fair, now is it?

Yes, if outcomes can be manipulated by the casino somehow, the mechanism they use shouldn't be called provably fair. It's must to have a system where outcomes are randomly picked from every potential scenarios, without any other interferences. If this system can't be ensured to be working properly, the possibility of a rigged outcome will be always present.

However, hardly ever you see gamblers concerned about this matter nowadays. The stupid social influencers who are constantly promoting gambling should be also promoting this kind of discussion to educate their audience.