How to improve privacy before paying someone in a safe way?

[takuma sato]

What I mean is the following. For instance you have a public address (public as in also known to the public, such as a public donation address posted somewhere that identifies you, that could be Googled and found). For your own safety, the idea is to hide that address belongs to you, but also not end up with tainted coins that could put you or the receiver in problems eventually.

It would look as following:

(Your public address) ---> (Service or software that improves your privacy) ---> (Receiving address) ----> (Person/Entity puts coins in exchange/pays taxes)

Back then it was very common and everyone used mixers and people understood it was common sense to use them in order to improve your privacy, but given that recently they randomly incriminate mixer users, how could this be solved?

When the person/entity deposits the coins you sent them into an exchange and/or pays taxes on those gains, and if you are unlucky and you received coins that are tainted during the mixing process, they would be in problems and may point to you as the previous owner of the coins. This is a fact and some people live in a parallel reality when they claim "tainted coins do not exist" so im not here to discuss facts, just looking for solutions.

I've heard about aggregators, or certain exchanges that may be useful here and minimize ending up with tainted coins when improving your privacy.

LN is out of the question, im not using that for now.

For BTC, im using Electrum with Tails, which as far as I know, does not have Coin Control, and for this setting, im not using Bitcoin Core. I will also need to deal with ETH, ERC-20 and XMR payments.

If someone knows a service/software that could allow this that remains good for your privacy (KYC and Tor friendly) please let me know.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I think what you're looking for is Wasabi Wallet with its new "Coinjoin Payments" feature. Both the sender and receiver gain privacy, and there is no need to consolidate any private coins that creates toxic change. You kill two birds with one stone.

I never had a problem with "tainted coins".

[Mia Chloe]

~snip

Basically what you are asking is to clean tainted coins and you already highlighted one way to do that which is using mixers. Other methods are there too some people can make use of coinjoins instead. Also if I can vividly remember there's a new method around too... Octojoin that combines both coin join and  lightning.

Alternatively you can get a very trusted DEX sometimes a coin bridge fixes the taint on coins more like a BTC to XMR swap and then probably to USDT or BTC again when you feel it's safe to use according to you you can then proceed to use CEX to get rid of tax charges.

[Forsyth Jones]

Mixers or exchanges are not recommended for sending coins directly to the recipient.

For any operation, whether using a mixer or an exchange, always receive the coins in your self-custody wallet first and then pay the recipient. Use AML checkers to verify the score.

This way, if you receive compromised coins, you can use a reliable and reputable solution to obtain coins with low AML scores.

You can exchange your coins on exchanges without KYC, such as the well-established ones on the forum like b1exch, sageswap, and ccecash (I use them quite often).

You can use wallets that support silent payments (like Sparrow, Cake wallet) to further increase your privacy (I believe this doesn't influence the AML score) and agree with the receiver also using it.

In most cases, the service that indicates the UTXO is compromised will request some proof of deposit and other types of evidence that may be sufficient to release the funds, the person you paid doesn't even need your intervention, except in more serious cases.

I think what you're looking for is Wasabi Wallet with its new "Coinjoin Payments" feature. Both the sender and receiver gain privacy, and there is no need to consolidate any private coins that creates toxic change. You kill two birds with one stone.

I never had a problem with "tainted coins".

Doesn't this increase the risk of both parties receiving coins with high AML? Coinjoin often comes with high AML.

[bitmover]

Back then it was very common and everyone used mixers and people understood it was common sense to use them in order to improve your privacy, but given that recently they randomly incriminate mixer users, how could this be solved?

When the person/entity deposits the coins you sent them into an exchange and/or pays taxes on those gains, and if you are unlucky and you received coins that are tainted during the mixing process, they would be in problems and may point to you as the previous owner of the coins. This is a fact and some people live in a parallel reality when they claim "tainted coins do not exist" so im not here to discuss facts, just looking for solutions.

I've heard about aggregators, or certain exchanges that may be useful here and minimize ending up with tainted coins when improving your privacy.

LN is out of the question, im not using that for now.

If someone knows a service/software that could allow this that remains good for your privacy (KYC and Tor friendly) please let me know.

I have several addresses from several different sources.
Some of them I think are anonymous enough and low aml to send to anyone.

For those which are highly linked to my identity (or my forum persona), I usually convert them into usdt when I need to spend.
I convert using some of the kyc exchnages known in this forum, or even hyperliquid.

Mixers are good also, some of them offer low AML coins. But they are more expensive.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

I think what you're looking for is Wasabi Wallet with its new "Coinjoin Payments" feature. Both the sender and receiver gain privacy, and there is no need to consolidate any private coins that creates toxic change. You kill two birds with one stone.

I don't know about their new feature but Wasabi wallet received many questions, discussions in the forum about their cooperation with Chainalysis - not sure my memory is too correct but you can check here. It is like severe concern on why Wasabi wallet team did that while they claimed to provide products for privacy and anonymity for their users.

I never had a problem with "tainted coins".

Likely you are knowledgeable and skillful to do that without problems but with the others, it is not too easy. There are ways to do bypass tainted coin problem but not all people can do that.
Bitcoin Q&A: Blacklists, Taint, and Wallet Fingerprinting.

[takuma sato]

~snip

Basically what you are asking is to clean tainted coins and you already highlighted one way to do that which is using mixers. Other methods are there too some people can make use of coinjoins instead. Also if I can vividly remember there's a new method around too... Octojoin that combines both coin join and  lightning.

Alternatively you can get a very trusted DEX sometimes a coin bridge fixes the taint on coins more like a BTC to XMR swap and then probably to USDT or BTC again when you feel it's safe to use according to you you can then proceed to use CEX to get rid of tax charges.

No, im not really asking that. The coins are not tainted (as far as I know, since I have no control of where the coins that I get have been through before arriving in my wallet). I just want to make a payment without the coins being attached to your identity.

Example, you accept donations in an address, and everyone can find this address as it is public in order to accept donations. Well before paying you want to break this link from that address to you.

Btw, if XMR is involved im going to need an XMR wallet isn't it? What wallet can I use that is not annoying to use? like an Electrum type wallet.

Mixers or exchanges are not recommended for sending coins directly to the recipient.

For any operation, whether using a mixer or an exchange, always receive the coins in your self-custody wallet first and then pay the recipient. Use AML checkers to verify the score.

This way, if you receive compromised coins, you can use a reliable and reputable solution to obtain coins with low AML scores.

You can exchange your coins on exchanges without KYC, such as the well-established ones on the forum like b1exch, sageswap, and ccecash (I use them quite often).

You can use wallets that support silent payments (like Sparrow, Cake wallet) to further increase your privacy (I believe this doesn't influence the AML score) and agree with the receiver also using it.

In most cases, the service that indicates the UTXO is compromised will request some proof of deposit and other types of evidence that may be sufficient to release the funds, the person you paid doesn't even need your intervention, except in more serious cases.

I think what you're looking for is Wasabi Wallet with its new "Coinjoin Payments" feature. Both the sender and receiver gain privacy, and there is no need to consolidate any private coins that creates toxic change. You kill two birds with one stone.

I never had a problem with "tainted coins".

Doesn't this increase the risk of both parties receiving coins with high AML? Coinjoin often comes with high AML.

Yeah, I would never send directly from an exchange, that's why im asking above what XMR wallet would you recommned that is easy to setup, as I don't want to download the blockchain. I could just use Tails that comes with Electrum for BTC, and then install there the XMR wallet to get the XMR and make the payment for the VPN.

As far as AML checkers, do they really work? What free AML checkers work? as far as I know the legit ones are paid and only accessible to professionals.

As far as this:

You can exchange your coins on exchanges without KYC, such as the well-established ones on the forum like b1exch, sageswap, and ccecash (I use them quite often).

So you are saying, I can just send my BTC to these exchanges, sell the BTC for XMR or whatever, and that's about it? How much protection do they give? How long would you wait to get the XMR out to pay for the VPN? I will also need either ETH or some of these USD stablecoins to pay for the service I need. Do these have XMR, USDC, ETH and DAI? which one of these 3 exchanges would you recommend in particular?

Also, as far as ETH and it's ERC-20 tokens, what could I use that works with Tails? I mean for the wallet. I just want to move some small amounts for this so I don't want to download whole blockchains or anything.

[LoyceV]

I just want to make a payment without the coins being attached to your identity.

I think you're overthinking this. Just keep different wallets for different purposes: if you have one known publicly and don't want it linked to something, use another wallet.
Label your inputs and manually send the right one.

Btw, if XMR is involved im going to need an XMR wallet isn't it? What wallet can I use that is not annoying to use? like an Electrum type wallet.

Feather.

[Mia Chloe]

Example, you accept donations in an address, and everyone can find this address as it is public in order to accept donations. Well before paying you want to break this link from that address to you.
Btw, if XMR is involved im going to need an XMR wallet isn't it? What wallet can I use that is not annoying to use? like an Electrum type wallet.

Well assuming you are talking about a mobile wallet the best I can actually recommend for a situation like this is cake wallet. Aside from the fact that the support XMR you can also choose to swap it to any coin of your choice and their fees for swaps are very considerate actually.

Besides it's close to cleaning in the occasion of if the coins are probably tainted. For something like this I suggest a multi coin wallet.

[PrivacyG]

I also believe you are complicating the situation way too much.  Do what LoyceV said and have two separate Wallets for public versus private use or make all your Bitcoin private and then use Coin Control to control which UTXOs are linked, spent and the remaining Bitcoin anonymized again.

[Forsyth Jones]

Yeah, I would never send directly from an exchange, that's why im asking above what XMR wallet would you recommned that is easy to setup, as I don't want to download the blockchain. I could just use Tails that comes with Electrum for BTC, and then install there the XMR wallet to get the XMR and make the payment for the VPN.

As far as AML checkers, do they really work? What free AML checkers work? as far as I know the legit ones are paid and only accessible to professionals.

As far as this:

You can exchange your coins on exchanges without KYC, such as the well-established ones on the forum like b1exch, sageswap, and ccecash (I use them quite often).

So you are saying, I can just send my BTC to these exchanges, sell the BTC for XMR or whatever, and that's about it? How much protection do they give? How long would you wait to get the XMR out to pay for the VPN? I will also need either ETH or some of these USD stablecoins to pay for the service I need. Do these have XMR, USDC, ETH and DAI? which one of these 3 exchanges would you recommend in particular?

Also, as far as ETH and it's ERC-20 tokens, what could I use that works with Tails? I mean for the wallet. I just want to move some small amounts for this so I don't want to download whole blockchains or anything.

I don't use XMR frequently, I've tried it a few times and only have experience with the XMR gui wallet (full node), but with it you have the option of SPV connection or full node. If you want other suggestions, you can follow the tips from other friends in this thread.

About the AML bots, they check if your address is on any blacklist or has any compromising history and give you an indicator from 0 to 100 points, the higher the score, the more compromising, this includes theft, gambling, mixing, terrorism (rare), etc. You can use the free AML Bot from b1exch.io, you can find it in the members signatures space who carry it or access it directly here: https://b1exch.to/Tools/AmlChecker

You don't necessarily always need to use XMR as a privacy bridge. Remember, using instant-exchanges doesn't always guarantee you'll receive coins with low AML, you can use stablecoins like USDC as a bridge as well.

I think Tails needs some manual configuration to install other software like Sparrow, etc. Consult a expert in this area.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I don't know about their new feature but Wasabi wallet received many questions, discussions in the forum about their cooperation with Chainalysis

It's been a long time since then. The zkSNACKs company has shut down, and the project is maintained by a few contributors ever since.

No, im not really asking that. The coins are not tainted (as far as I know, since I have no control of where the coins that I get have been through before arriving in my wallet).

Actually the reason why the coins are or aren't "tainted" is not because you have no control of the coins you get, but you have no way to tell what a "tainted coin" is. It's a made up term and there is no way to tell what a chain analysis company deems as "tainted". It's completely arbitrary as far as anyone can tell.

I just want to make a payment without the coins being attached to your identity

Then either use coinjoin or BTC<->XMR swaps.

[LoyceV]

Actually the reason why the coins are or aren't "tainted" is not because you have no control of the coins you get, but you have no way to tell what a "tainted coin" is. It's a made up term and there is no way to tell what a chain analysis company deems as "tainted". It's completely arbitrary as far as anyone can tell.

"Taint" is a business model for the companies selling the Naughty list and it's an attack on Bitcoin's fungibility.

[Satofan44]

(Your public address) ---> (Service or software that improves your privacy) ---> (Receiving address) ----> (Person/Entity puts coins in exchange/pays taxes)

Back then it was very common and everyone used mixers and people understood it was common sense to use them in order to improve your privacy, but given that recently they randomly incriminate mixer users, how could this be solved?

When the person/entity deposits the coins you sent them into an exchange and/or pays taxes on those gains, and if you are unlucky and you received coins that are tainted during the mixing process, they would be in problems and may point to you as the previous owner of the coins. This is a fact and some people live in a parallel reality when they claim "tainted coins do not exist" so im not here to discuss facts, just looking for solutions.

You can get tainted coins from any activity that does not include a fully regulated financial establishment, including receiving payments, donations and so forth. So you can put that topic aside as it applies to everything. For what you are looking for your solution is:
1) Wallet accounts.
2) Atomic swaps or "no-KYC" swap services. I mention both because each comes with its own benefits and drawbacks, therefore you can decide what you want.

Create a sufficient number of fresh wallet accounts, each one funded by a clean conversion from Monero to Bitcoin using one of the two options in number 2. By having many accounts like this: Your history is clean, you always have funds for payments ready, you can combine unused accounts if the payment amount goes beyond what you have in one account. Once an account has been used or is low in funds, you can atomic swap it back into Monero and stop using it.
If your priority is to not have tainted coins, then those "no KYC" swap services are your solution. Coins that come from there are not tainted, and have a low AML risk. There is a low risk of being flagged for KYC/AML if you do something wrong, but if the amounts in question are low then so be it? If you are risking only $100 - $1000 per transaction for a huge boost in anonymity, is this not a cost that you'd be willing to pay if eventually some transaction fails?

Actually the reason why the coins are or aren't "tainted" is not because you have no control of the coins you get, but you have no way to tell what a "tainted coin" is. It's a made up term and there is no way to tell what a chain analysis company deems as "tainted". It's completely arbitrary as far as anyone can tell.

The part in bold is not true. There are some free tools and there are many paid tools with which you can check if the coins are "tainted". Putting aside our ideological disagreement with the tainted bullshit, these tools will give you exactly what an receiving institution or exchange is going to see when they receive said coin. That said, an exchange can still flag you for other reasons even if coins are not tainted making the whole ordeal even more stupid.

[Cinexa]

No. Mixer is not a good idea for now if next hop is KYC deposit.

To your flow: public addr no-KYC swap (cce.cash, Mobit, Sideshift) their addr. They pay from their hot wallets, so you are clean from mixing fingerprint without Mixer. Tor is okay, small one for tests please.

Or Sell / Re buy Bisq/Hodl to break the chain further.

Don't sell Anything with"coin cleaning".

[BlackHatCoiner]

The part in bold is not true. There are some free tools and there are many paid tools with which you can check if the coins are "tainted". Putting aside our ideological disagreement with the tainted bullshit, these tools will give you exactly what an receiving institution or exchange is going to see when they receive said coin.

How do you know that an exchange uses those tools? Maybe they do, maybe they don't and have some other tools.

[joniboini]

Maybe they do, maybe they don't and have some other tools.

If the source comes from a tainted coins comes from a high-profile activity (major exchanges hacker and so on), I guess those tools can be useful. The problem is always going to be smaller ones like deposit related to casino addresses, and so on. Although the solution given by some people is simple, such as depositing the fund to your own address first before you sent them to an exchange. I doubt it will last very long, especially with how stricter some KYC rules have become. CMIIW.

[takuma sato]

I just want to make a payment without the coins being attached to your identity.

I think you're overthinking this. Just keep different wallets for different purposes: if you have one known publicly and don't want it linked to something, use another wallet.
Label your inputs and manually send the right one.

Btw, if XMR is involved im going to need an XMR wallet isn't it? What wallet can I use that is not annoying to use? like an Electrum type wallet.

Feather.

With Coin Control in Bitcoin Core you don't need different wallets, not sure if Electrum does have something similar to send specifically from a particular address. However, once you have funds in a public address and you make a single transaction, it's too easy to see that the previous transaction is from a known public address that belongs to you, so I don't consider one single hop an increase in privacy enough.

About Feather wallet, will look it up but what do you think about Cake Wallet? I have seen this one recommended for XMR. I have also seen recommendations on aggregators to increase privacy without AML risk or at least minimizing it a lot compared to classic mixing solutions.

Example, you accept donations in an address, and everyone can find this address as it is public in order to accept donations. Well before paying you want to break this link from that address to you.
Btw, if XMR is involved im going to need an XMR wallet isn't it? What wallet can I use that is not annoying to use? like an Electrum type wallet.

Well assuming you are talking about a mobile wallet the best I can actually recommend for a situation like this is cake wallet. Aside from the fact that the support XMR you can also choose to swap it to any coin of your choice and their fees for swaps are very considerate actually.

Besides it's close to cleaning in the occasion of if the coins are probably tainted. For something like this I suggest a multi coin wallet.

Im on desktop.

I also believe you are complicating the situation way too much.  Do what LoyceV said and have two separate Wallets for public versus private use or make all your Bitcoin private and then use Coin Control to control which UTXOs are linked, spent and the remaining Bitcoin anonymized again.

I am aware on Coin Control but for this setup I want to use Electrum. If Electrum has no Coin Control like feature I guess I need a separate wallet per address which is annoying but I guess that's better than having no control over what address you are sending from.

Yeah, I would never send directly from an exchange, that's why im asking above what XMR wallet would you recommned that is easy to setup, as I don't want to download the blockchain. I could just use Tails that comes with Electrum for BTC, and then install there the XMR wallet to get the XMR and make the payment for the VPN.

As far as AML checkers, do they really work? What free AML checkers work? as far as I know the legit ones are paid and only accessible to professionals.

As far as this:

You can exchange your coins on exchanges without KYC, such as the well-established ones on the forum like b1exch, sageswap, and ccecash (I use them quite often).

So you are saying, I can just send my BTC to these exchanges, sell the BTC for XMR or whatever, and that's about it? How much protection do they give? How long would you wait to get the XMR out to pay for the VPN? I will also need either ETH or some of these USD stablecoins to pay for the service I need. Do these have XMR, USDC, ETH and DAI? which one of these 3 exchanges would you recommend in particular?

Also, as far as ETH and it's ERC-20 tokens, what could I use that works with Tails? I mean for the wallet. I just want to move some small amounts for this so I don't want to download whole blockchains or anything.

I don't use XMR frequently, I've tried it a few times and only have experience with the XMR gui wallet (full node), but with it you have the option of SPV connection or full node. If you want other suggestions, you can follow the tips from other friends in this thread.

About the AML bots, they check if your address is on any blacklist or has any compromising history and give you an indicator from 0 to 100 points, the higher the score, the more compromising, this includes theft, gambling, mixing, terrorism (rare), etc. You can use the free AML Bot from b1exch.io, you can find it in the members signatures space who carry it or access it directly here: https://b1exch.to/Tools/AmlChecker

You don't necessarily always need to use XMR as a privacy bridge. Remember, using instant-exchanges doesn't always guarantee you'll receive coins with low AML, you can use stablecoins like USDC as a bridge as well.

I think Tails needs some manual configuration to install other software like Sparrow, etc. Consult a expert in this area.

Where can you read about how exactly is the address you enter in there checked? how do we know they are not keeping logs?

Do you know any other such services? I guess the more we use, the more certainty we get that our coins are good to go.

It is crazy that we have to do this, but what can you do? I mean, to access the high end tools, you would need to pay a lawyer, so what happens if you have some old coins that have high AML risk, you send your public addresses to the lawyer or tax specialist that may access to these tools and you end up in trouble? But that would be the only way to get a real peace of mind to know you are not sending high AML risk coins to an exchange. I doubt these free public AML checkers are as powerful as the "real deal" tools that you have to pay to access, but like I said, that involves doxing yourself to some specialist with the tools to pay for the service. Has anyone done this before? would be specially relevant if you are looking to cash out substantial amounts. Years ago a lot of people used mixers as it was the best way to get any safety and privacy when dealing with transactions, so the oldest your coins the higher chances they have been throught them. You would think if your coins didn't move in many years and you can explain a context that makes sense they would be reasonable but I wouldn't want to risk sending any coins in a CEX to cashout a substancial amount unless I got top of the line AML tools and good lawyers involved to explain the situation in case funds are frozen.

[BlackHatCoiner]

If the source comes from a tainted coins comes from a high-profile activity (major exchanges hacker and so on), I guess those tools can be useful.

Maybe. Maybe the hacker figured out exactly the tools the exchange uses. Maybe the exchange updates their chain analysis program after it got hacked, and has different updated tools.

Although the solution given by some people is simple, such as depositing the fund to your own address first before you sent them to an exchange. I doubt it will last very long, especially with how stricter some KYC rules have become. CMIIW.

Maybe it's going to work. MAYBE. Maybe not. Who knows.

[takuma sato]

(Your public address) ---> (Service or software that improves your privacy) ---> (Receiving address) ----> (Person/Entity puts coins in exchange/pays taxes)

Back then it was very common and everyone used mixers and people understood it was common sense to use them in order to improve your privacy, but given that recently they randomly incriminate mixer users, how could this be solved?

When the person/entity deposits the coins you sent them into an exchange and/or pays taxes on those gains, and if you are unlucky and you received coins that are tainted during the mixing process, they would be in problems and may point to you as the previous owner of the coins. This is a fact and some people live in a parallel reality when they claim "tainted coins do not exist" so im not here to discuss facts, just looking for solutions.

You can get tainted coins from any activity that does not include a fully regulated financial establishment, including receiving payments, donations and so forth. So you can put that topic aside as it applies to everything. For what you are looking for your solution is:
1) Wallet accounts.
2) Atomic swaps or "no-KYC" swap services. I mention both because each comes with its own benefits and drawbacks, therefore you can decide what you want.

Create a sufficient number of fresh wallet accounts, each one funded by a clean conversion from Monero to Bitcoin using one of the two options in number 2. By having many accounts like this: Your history is clean, you always have funds for payments ready, you can combine unused accounts if the payment amount goes beyond what you have in one account. Once an account has been used or is low in funds, you can atomic swap it back into Monero and stop using it.
If your priority is to not have tainted coins, then those "no KYC" swap services are your solution. Coins that come from there are not tainted, and have a low AML risk. There is a low risk of being flagged for KYC/AML if you do something wrong, but if the amounts in question are low then so be it? If you are risking only $100 - $1000 per transaction for a huge boost in anonymity, is this not a cost that you'd be willing to pay if eventually some transaction fails?

Actually the reason why the coins are or aren't "tainted" is not because you have no control of the coins you get, but you have no way to tell what a "tainted coin" is. It's a made up term and there is no way to tell what a chain analysis company deems as "tainted". It's completely arbitrary as far as anyone can tell.

The part in bold is not true. There are some free tools and there are many paid tools with which you can check if the coins are "tainted". Putting aside our ideological disagreement with the tainted bullshit, these tools will give you exactly what an receiving institution or exchange is going to see when they receive said coin. That said, an exchange can still flag you for other reasons even if coins are not tainted making the whole ordeal even more stupid.

Yes, anyone can get tainted coins at any moment, but if you deposit them in a CEX, the problem is yours unfortunately. And if you pay someone, and then they put it on a CEX, they will point to you as the previous hop. So im looking to avoid such problems.

Not sure what you mean by "wallet accounts". Im mostly familiar with Bitcoin Core and Electrum. As far as atomic swaps, are those the same as "no-KYC swap services"? are those the same as "aggregators"? It's confusing differentiating all of these. I have seen Trocador being recommended around as a way to get some privacy with low AML risk, however im not sure if those are available in western countries, as there is a warning sign in a website that lists such services that says it's not available for western country residents. If im paying for a service, there does exist a scenario in which they may ask the service provider for the person behind the payment, and so you don't want to be doing anything that's not allowed beside not holding AML risky coins. This sucks because it makes dealing with crypto payments so complicated. Having to go thought so many hops to pay for some service. A debit card transfer seems less risky at this point, even if it has zero privacy, it's a legal service anyway, but it sucks you have to give up on privacy, but at the same time using crypto payments leaves some permanent record, bank statements are eventually removed after some years. Anyway, nonetheless im interested in what AML checking services do you know, because like I said, from what I have read, the powerful AML checkers are reserved to professionals, so you would need to pay a lawyer/tax guy to check your addresses out if you want a real peace of mind, compared to some free AML checkers which we also don't really know how they work or who is behind. However doxing yourself to pay some guy to check your addresses on that professional software has risks in itself. What if you hold risky AML coins and they show up? It's a bit of a slippery slope, that is why I never saw a clear way to deal with crypto payments and been treating it mostly as a store of value and barely moving any funds.