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Author Topic: How to improve privacy before paying someone in a safe way?  (Read 342 times)
Satofan44
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September 12, 2026, 05:14:12 PM
Merited by ABCbits (3), vapourminer (1)
 #21

The part in bold is not true. There are some free tools and there are many paid tools with which you can check if the coins are "tainted". Putting aside our ideological disagreement with the tainted bullshit, these tools will give you exactly what an receiving institution or exchange is going to see when they receive said coin.
How do you know that an exchange uses those tools? Maybe they do, maybe they don't and have some other tools.
Tools that are industry standard rely on the same data sources, they don't have to use the same exact tool to see the exact same information -- If this was not the case, there would be complete chaos and it would be near impossible to use multiple reputable exchanges at the same time in any sane way. Furthermore, experimental evidence will confirm it but you have to do it yourself. I have tried with countless transactions using clean coins, and sometimes with tainted coins to see what would happen down the road with one of these systems. If you don't believe in the theory/research, then you can do the tests yourself with some tools assuming that you have money that you could burn as an expense to verify it for yourself.

Not sure what you mean by "wallet accounts". Im mostly familiar with Bitcoin Core and Electrum.
Coin Control without accounts is for noobs, and mostly old timers that have outdated methods and knowledge tend to suggest people things like that. A single seed can derive countless addresses in countless accounts, so you would have something like this:
seed - coin - account 0
seed - coin - account 1

By using them this way, you can ensure that there is no leaking between your accounts. For example, account 0 can be your bigger hot-wallet stash. Account 1 can be restaurant payments. If you use accounts correctly no error that you commit within a single account will leak anything about the rest of what you have going on in the same wallet. Whereas with traditional single-account coin control, all you need is a single basic mistake to undo a lot of work and reveal a big portion of your history. Accounts are pretty easy to do in Sparrow: https://www.sparrowwallet.com/docs/connected-wallet.html#bonus-adding-an-account. Try it, you will understand best by trying it.

As far as atomic swaps, are those the same as "no-KYC swap services"? are those the same as "aggregators"? It's confusing differentiating all of these.
No, they are not. They are completely different services. Some classes that are relevant:
1) Atomic swaps, for example those that serve XMR <-> BTC. Here the limits are technical, and liquidity. You are not going to find various routes for different coins or tokens, depending on what you have and need. However, you get the most anonymity here.
2) Decentralized bridges, for example those related to THORchain. Here the limits are related to anonymity, a technologically adapt observer can trace your routes. The benefit here is that it can not be stuck for AML/KYC reasons, and it would auto refund.
3) "No-KYC" swap services such as ChangeNOW. The downside to this is that it is centralized compared to the first two. In most cases you will not have any issues, but if you are unlucky or trigger the system in some way you will be forced to do AML/KYC or abandon the coins that you are currently swapping. Upside here: Only the service can de-anonymize you, and the coins that you receive from them are AML friendly.

Strongest anonymity: Atomic swaps.
Decentralized with many routes: Decentralized bridges.
AML friendly coins with most routes: Swap services.

That is how I would rate them in general. Please keep in mind the risks and disadvantages of the options, and use what you personally need -- don't listen to the biased idiots on this forum. I have used hundreds of services while testing systems in the last few years, I have very rarely encountered issues with anything and even in those cases there are many things that you can do. Experience is key, therefore pick something and start practicing with small amounts.

Anyway, nonetheless im interested in what AML checking services do you know, because like I said, from what I have read, the powerful AML checkers are reserved to professionals, so you would need to pay a lawyer/tax guy to check your addresses out if you want a real peace of mind, compared to some free AML checkers which we also don't really know how they work or who is behind. However doxing yourself to pay some guy to check your addresses on that professional software has risks in itself. What if you hold risky AML coins and they show up? It's a bit of a slippery slope, that is why I never saw a clear way to deal with crypto payments and been treating it mostly as a store of value and barely moving any funds.
I would not recommend doxxing yourself to some "guy" to do an AML check for you, it brings no advantages at all nor does it bring any guarantees of anything. This kind of service is more for the people that have not grown out of the thinking in "authorities" way, you know the kind of people that would ask their doctor how they should drink a glass of water.  Roll Eyes Here are some right now, keep in mind that things change over the years (and I hope that I pasted the right links):
https://amlbot.com
https://www.scorechain.com/resources/crypto-glossary/aml-wallet-check-free

The best solution for this kind of topic for those that really need it is to be in the network of someone who has access to Chainalysis. I've had the best success with that, I don't remember a single case of coins that were graded as low risk by Chainalysis having issues later. Of course, the biggest obstacle here is getting access to Chainalysis.

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September 13, 2026, 08:15:30 AM
Merited by LoyceV (4), vapourminer (1)
 #22

3) "No-KYC" swap services such as ChangeNOW. The downside to this is that it is centralized compared to the first two. In most cases you will not have any issues, but if you are unlucky or trigger the system in some way you will be forced to do AML/KYC or abandon the coins that you are currently swapping. Upside here: Only the service can de-anonymize you, and the coins that you receive from them are AML friendly.

I want to add few things

1. I know you don't recommend ChangeNOW, but i believe everyone should not use ChangeNOW. Aside from accusation of shotgun KYC or stealing coin under prtense of KYC/AML check, they also lie being non-custodial service, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5592492.msg67094753#msg67094753.
2. There are few swap services that claim you can do either free AML check before actually make any deposit or refund  any suspicious deposit. Either claim aren't 100% guaranteed, even if you use aggregator (such as OrangeFren), but IMO it's worth to be considered.
3. Coin received from exchange/swap service without strict strict AML/KYC could be categorized as suspicious or risky. An example from AML checker service,

Quote from: amlbot.com/crypto-checker
Suspicious sources

Exchange | High Risk
An entity becomes high-risk based on the following criteria:

No KYC: does not require any customer information before allowing any level of deposit/withdrawal, or makes no attempt to verify that information.

Criminal Ties: Criminal charges against the legal entity in connection with AML/CFT violations.

Impact: High exposure to risky services such as darknet markets, other high-risk exchanges, or mixing is defined as a service whose direct high-risk exposure differs by one standard deviation from the average of all identified exchanges over a 12-month period.

Jurisdiction: based in a jurisdiction with weak AML/CFT measures.

Unlicensed: does not have any specific license to trade cryptocurrencies.

Satofan44
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September 14, 2026, 02:52:15 PM
 #23

2. There are few swap services that claim you can do either free AML check before actually make any deposit or refund  any suspicious deposit. Either claim aren't 100% guaranteed, even if you use aggregator (such as OrangeFren), but IMO it's worth to be considered.
To be honest, if this AML/KYC was not a whole scam this kind of tool would be default on each website. That they make it hard for anyone to check on their own before actually sending coins tells you the real intentions behind the industry regulations.

3. Coin received from exchange/swap service without strict strict AML/KYC could be categorized as suspicious or risky. An example from AML checker service,
They will be categorized as low risk if we are talking about a big swap service, in the yellow category if color coded. At least that is how it was the last time I checked it. If it is some new, no name swap service then obviously it is going to be marked suspicious.

3) "No-KYC" swap services such as ChangeNOW. The downside to this is that it is centralized compared to the first two. In most cases you will not have any issues, but if you are unlucky or trigger the system in some way you will be forced to do AML/KYC or abandon the coins that you are currently swapping. Upside here: Only the service can de-anonymize you, and the coins that you receive from them are AML friendly.
I want to add few things

1. I know you don't recommend ChangeNOW, but i believe everyone should not use ChangeNOW. Aside from accusation of shotgun KYC or stealing coin under prtense of KYC/AML check, they also lie being non-custodial service, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5592492.msg67094753#msg67094753.
It is a good addition to my post! I do not recommend any particular service, I just used one of the most popular ones as an example. Users can take a look at Trustpilot or Reddit and they will find nightmare stories for all of these services. There are many reasons for this, but they group into 2 large categories:

1. Illegal coins or suspicious behavior that triggers review (use of TOR being one example).
1a) The user is actually aware that they have illegal coins or suspiciously acquired coins, but they refuse to admit this and pretend to be innocent in public while blaming the service.
1b) The user is not aware at all that something is wrong with their coins, but they blame the service for acting on it instead of blaming the source of their coins.

2. The service trying to selectively scam to claim coins after sufficient time has passed. The users might not be able to provide the necessary documentation or in the case of criminals, they might not want to all.


Because of a combination of these two large groups of events, every single Swap Service is going to have many nightmare stories. Keep in mind that, when talking about legitimate services, we are talking about a very small % of transactions having issues, probably much fewer than 0.1% or possibly even 0.01%. Nevertheless, this is why it is important to highlight the disadvantages of each option and let the user decide for themselves what they want to do.



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September 15, 2026, 05:54:03 PM
 #24

Tools that are industry standard rely on the same data sources, they don't have to use the same exact tool to see the exact same information
How do you know? I've heard plenty of cases of some coinjoined coins being treated as "tainted" on one exchange and "clean" on another.

Quote
If this was not the case, there would be complete chaos and it would be near impossible to use multiple reputable exchanges at the same time in any sane way.
I think it's pretty acknowledged by now that various exchanges will treat your coins as tainted, even though some others disagree.

Quote
If you don't believe in the theory/research, then you can do the tests yourself with some tools assuming that you have money that you could burn as an expense to verify it for yourself.
I don't have the time, but I do have read plenty of cases, and that is enough for me to comprehend that basically each exchange buys from different chain analysis firms, and each database may often be updated, for example after a certain hack happens.

takuma sato (OP)
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September 15, 2026, 06:17:49 PM
 #25

Tools that are industry standard rely on the same data sources, they don't have to use the same exact tool to see the exact same information -- If this was not the case, there would be complete chaos and it would be near impossible to use multiple reputable exchanges at the same time in any sane way. Furthermore, experimental evidence will confirm it but you have to do it yourself. I have tried with countless transactions using clean coins, and sometimes with tainted coins to see what would happen down the road with one of these systems. If you don't believe in the theory/research, then you can do the tests yourself with some tools assuming that you have money that you could burn as an expense to verify it for yourself.

How do you know? im pretty sure the top tier tools for these things have privileged information. On the other hand, like I said, you have no way to know how free services are doing it. In fact, im sure top tier ones work with Chainalysis and others and have updated cross-chain databases.

Coin Control without accounts is for noobs, and mostly old timers that have outdated methods and knowledge tend to suggest people things like that. A single seed can derive countless addresses in countless accounts, so you would have something like this:
seed - coin - account 0
seed - coin - account 1


By using them this way, you can ensure that there is no leaking between your accounts. For example, account 0 can be your bigger hot-wallet stash. Account 1 can be restaurant payments. If you use accounts correctly no error that you commit within a single account will leak anything about the rest of what you have going on in the same wallet. Whereas with traditional single-account coin control, all you need is a single basic mistake to undo a lot of work and reveal a big portion of your history. Accounts are pretty easy to do in Sparrow: https://www.sparrowwallet.com/docs/connected-wallet.html#bonus-adding-an-account. Try it, you will understand best by trying it.
 

Never got around Sparrow Wallet. I think there's more risk in screwing up with a software you are not familiar with. I like seeing the complete list of inputs as seen in Coin Control of Bitcoin Core and just click whatever you want to use. If you label things properly it shouldn't be a problem. The accounts thing looks interesting tho. But multiple wallets is easy in Bitcoin Core now if you need that. If I have the time I will check Sparrow Wallet's account workflow and if it's good it could be suggested to Bitcoin Core and Electrum developers.

No, they are not. They are completely different services. Some classes that are relevant:
1) Atomic swaps, for example those that serve XMR <-> BTC. Here the limits are technical, and liquidity. You are not going to find various routes for different coins or tokens, depending on what you have and need. However, you get the most anonymity here.
2) Decentralized bridges, for example those related to THORchain. Here the limits are related to anonymity, a technologically adapt observer can trace your routes. The benefit here is that it can not be stuck for AML/KYC reasons, and it would auto refund.
3) "No-KYC" swap services such as ChangeNOW. The downside to this is that it is centralized compared to the first two. In most cases you will not have any issues, but if you are unlucky or trigger the system in some way you will be forced to do AML/KYC or abandon the coins that you are currently swapping. Upside here: Only the service can de-anonymize you, and the coins that you receive from them are AML friendly.

Strongest anonymity: Atomic swaps.
Decentralized with many routes: Decentralized bridges.
AML friendly coins with most routes: Swap services.

That is how I would rate them in general. Please keep in mind the risks and disadvantages of the options, and use what you personally need -- don't listen to the biased idiots on this forum. I have used hundreds of services while testing systems in the last few years, I have very rarely encountered issues with anything and even in those cases there are many things that you can do. Experience is key, therefore pick something and start practicing with small amounts.

Could you mention what you think the best services are for each option? Were would b1exch and Trocador.app fall there?

I would not recommend doxxing yourself to some "guy" to do an AML check for you, it brings no advantages at all nor does it bring any guarantees of anything. This kind of service is more for the people that have not grown out of the thinking in "authorities" way, you know the kind of people that would ask their doctor how they should drink a glass of water.  Roll Eyes Here are some right now, keep in mind that things change over the years (and I hope that I pasted the right links):
https://amlbot.com
https://www.scorechain.com/resources/crypto-glossary/aml-wallet-check-free

The best solution for this kind of topic for those that really need it is to be in the network of someone who has access to Chainalysis. I've had the best success with that, I don't remember a single case of coins that were graded as low risk by Chainalysis having issues later. Of course, the biggest obstacle here is getting access to Chainalysis.



Depends on the context. Say BTC goes to $500,000 and you want to cash out some funds that are not KYC'd to buy real estate. Well, hiring a lawyer that has expertise in this field and has the top tier tools would allow you to produce a report that you can send to various compliance departments as needed. It's better than checking some random "AML checker" under a VPN or something. That's useful as a preview or funds you don't really need for anything relevant like paying for cheaper services, not doing a proper investment that requires big volume transactions. Like I said I really doubt you can compare these free AML checkers to the top tier ones which I assume have the most up to date databases that work with Chainalysis and have cross-chain information, plus if you are going to buy real state or something big you are going to be doxed anyway and would be best to work close with a lawyer expert in crypto and compliance, I would invest extra on this to produce the best report possible rather than use the free ones and send them to the CEX hoping you are not locked out and then hire a lawyer to try to send them a letter explaining how you acquired the funds.

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