If you got in this situationn! What will you?

[cryptoaddictchie]

I saw this topic on Reddit/Bitcoin, and got curious if this ever happened on anyone. What actually will they do? Or does this kind of scenario implicate some lawful violations. Considering that someone didnt use any sort of unlawful stuff like knocking on someone door and forced to give a private key and steal it.

Lets just say a dormant wallet for a long time and someone luckily guess the keys.




Different questions on my mind pops up regading this scenario like these:

1. Did that someone break any Law upon discovery of this ^{(Based on country probable geolocation Laws exist for digital)}?
2. Is he allowed to spend it or transfer to another wallet and sold it
3. Technically on bitcoins perspective anyone control the keys or able to sign a message = own the bitcoin ^{(Is this somehow exempted?)}
4. Does he own now the bitcoin assuming the owner is probably dead and he can sign a message?
5. Is he fortunate or like win a Jackpot or just place himself more in danger upon discovering this?

Technically this is a huge debate Im surely wanted to know some answers. Whats your thought on this?

[un_rank]

1. Did that someone break any Law upon discovery of this ^{(Based on country probable geolocation Laws exist for digital)}?
2. Is he allowed to spend it or transfer to another wallet and sold it

No laws were broken except there is someone with a claim to the funds that can provide proof of that. Even in that situation, it still doesnt break any criminal law I know of

If you have the keys you can spend the coins (no exception). You will struggle to find liquidity from exchanges and will very likely need to provide source of funds when you sell up to a certain amount.

4. Does he own now the bitcoin assuming the owner is probably dead and he can sign a message?
5. Is he fortunate or like win a Jackpot or just place himself more in danger upon discovering this?

Yes.
Except there is a mafia looking for that money and you do not go announcing it on your local radio, there is no danger.

Technically this is a huge debate Im surely wanted to know some answers.

More like wishful thinking.

- Jay -

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

I saw this topic on Reddit/Bitcoin, and got curious if this ever happened on anyone. What actually will they do? Or does this kind of scenario implicate some lawful violations. Considering that someone didnt use any sort of unlawful stuff like knocking on someone door and forced to give a private key and steal it.

Lets just say a dormant wallet for a long time and someone luckily guess the keys.

Dormant or new private keys, you can not know that the owner lost the wallet or still own it with accessible private keys. If you don't know that but you still steal the coins, you are a criminal, surely.

If the owner lost the keys, for example in dormant wallet case, it is still morally wrong if you steal the coins in that wallet.

In legal aspect, if you steal something from anyone, it's illegal and you're a criminal.

You can not bruteforce my email password, access it and say you don't do anything wrong both morally and legally.

[Faisal2202]

Guessing a key is not that easy, and I am not that lucky to guess a key or seed phrase that can unlock me a wallet with $1 billion in it haha. I love to daydream as well, but this one never came to my mind.

But let's just say we did not guess the keys, but we found a wallet with a page attached to it on which the seed phrase is written, and now we have access to a wallet which has $1 billion dollars. So technically I don't own them even if I own the keys and can sign, because on a legal basis I have to prove everything, and if I fail to, then I might not own them, although who would know the wallet is with me? Anyway, there are many possibilities, but I know those funds don't belong to me. So yes, I will try to haaaaaaaaaaaaa, it's hard to say even haha, but I will return haha.

But how can I know who the real owner is?

Coldcard hacker had the seed phrase, so that did not make him the rightful owner, he stole so he is on the run, can be sued legally, so owning keys alone doesn't make you the rightful owner in legal terms.

[Odohu]

I saw this topic on Reddit/Bitcoin, and got curious if this ever happened on anyone. What actually will they do? Or does this kind of scenario implicate some lawful violations. Considering that someone didnt use any sort of unlawful stuff like knocking on someone door and forced to give a private key and steal it.

Lets just say a dormant wallet for a long time and someone luckily guess the keys.

I don't think this is possible to happen but for the fun of it, if I find a private key containing this amount, the first thing I will do is to move the money to a new wallet that I control the private keys before initiating the steps of getting to the rightful owner. I could create a topic here or on any crypto forum where my privacy is guaranteed and the post will request for anyone that have the private keys of the other wallet to come forward and prove ownership by signing a message from the wallet. If that is confirmed publicly, then we can begin discussing ways of returning his money.

[Mia Chloe]

~snip

Well to start with the entropy required to generate a private key is just two random for you to guess out of the blue even if it's where seed phrases it would be almost impossible for that to actually happen. Anyways depending on the kind of country you are in you may not even be able to spend it properly.

However if it was of a dormant address then probably it's a lost one because the chances of an individual Hodling such huge amounts is very slim. Suck kind of amount draws a lot of attention. They could tag it stolen funds and we know how the government handles them obviously.

[Ambatman]

Did that someone break any Law upon discovery of this (Based on country probable geolocation Laws exist for digital)?

The Blockchain doesn't care about who's behind the key but the key itself.
But controlling the key doesn't automatically mean legal ownership.

Is he allowed to spend it or transfer to another wallet and sold it

There's nothing stopping them from spending the coins
And on legal ground if there's no one to claim ownership no ones is going to know.

Does he own now the bitcoin assuming the owner is probably dead and he can sign a message?

The owner might be dead doesn't mean they didn't keep the keys for an heir
But it gets complicated if the keys dies with them.

Is he fortunate or like win a Jackpot or just place himself more in danger upon discovering this?

Depends on the decision he takes later on.
I would say he could start by moving the coin to a new address
Await if anybody calls it out but if it stays silent which I doubt any owning billions worth of Bitcoin would
It means nobody has access or tracks the coin
And if they do
It's easy to explain yourself or send it back.

[Sobz]

Guessing a key is not that easy, and I am not that lucky to guess a key or seed phrase that can unlock me a wallet with $1 billion in it haha. I love to daydream as well, but this one never came to my mind.

I dont even think this is even possible. The seedphrase is so difficult that if you dont know it take advantage of wallet you cant have access. If it wee easy for scammers to guess words to have access of wallets,  many wallets would have been compromised and because of this non custodial wallet would have been one not to rely one for security. The seedphrase is so difficult to try that even if some of them are exposed and the others are still hidden it will still be difficult to login.

[crwth]

Oh, the hypotheticals The wishful thinking that we all want, lol.

I mean, I think if you have access to the wallet, you can prove you own it by signing a message, and that would help prove it's yours.

OR

It can be considered abandoned or lost property, don't you think? It will depend on how you access it as well because if there is hacking or something, then one can be liable.

[Charles-Tim]

1. Did that someone break any Law upon discovery of this (Based on country probable geolocation Laws exist for digital)?
2. Is he allowed to spend it or transfer to another wallet and sold it

If the bitcoin belongs to someone and the person said his coin got lost. People will not say he guessed it, they will say he hacked into the wallet and compromised it.

He should report it instead to the authority.

I am not implying he should not try his luck, but he should also think that he can get arrested for it. So he should be able to face the consequences if police arrest the him or her.

[Silverstonez]

There is no way to justify this because stealing is stealing. And, if I may ask, what would make someone start guessing private keys if not for the fact they have bad intentions. It is not normal to sit down comfortably and start guessing private keys, you do that because you intentionally want to steal from others which is very wrong. Even if someone mistakenly send funds to you wallet and you keep them without making any effort to return them it is still stealing, because you can send the funds back to them same wallet address that sent it to you mistakenly.

[_act_]

There is no way to justify this because stealing is stealing.

How can someone even know or guess someone's bitcoin private key? That is not possible. I totally agree that stealing is stealing. There is nothing it should be called than stealing.

And, if I may ask, what would make someone start guessing private keys if not for the fact they have bad intentions.

This is not even possible. He stole the bitcoin, simple.

Even if someone mistakenly send funds to you wallet and you keep them without making any effort to return them it is still stealing, because you can send the funds back to them same wallet address that sent it to you mistakenly.

Yes, but people should not make the mistake because the bitcoin sent to a wrong addressay be gone forever. Many people are wicked and see it as opportunity, especially if the money is not up to what the victim can investigate about.

[Renampun]

Say that you can do it, but I think it's still theft and it's against the law because basically you're forcing your way into a wallet that doesn't belong to you.. maybe you think there's no law that can punish you, but if the wallet owner notices what happened and reports it to the authorities, the authorities can still investigate and pursue you for hacking someone's wallet. Especially now, tracking Bitcoin transactions is so advanced, done by firms and authorities for transactions recorded on a public blockchain.. even if you move the funds across different wallets or platforms, you can still be traced and caught sooner or later.

[BIT-BENDER]

Number 1. Since you have already said it wasn't unlawful then how do you expect it to be against the law, yes the image has created the scene but you actually added to the seen now we have to work with what you added.

Number 2. Since it's lawful and he has access to it certainly there is no restrictions to what he does with it, again I am working with the scene you created.
Honestly for me the other questions are just going to have the same answer because you have already said it is lawful and the person has access.

[Mrbluntzy]

Out of curiosity, I would love to ask you @OP, over your long time of being into Bitcoin and altcoins, have you heard that someone luckily guess and formed a private key or seed phrase that lead them to an address holding funds in it? I am sure that people have tried this many times but they will definitely keep arriving in an empty address, that's why I can not even imagine that what is described in that Reddit post can ever happen.

For the first question you asked which am going to skip because it leads to the second question, assuming the "someone" we are referring to spent the coins he found in that wallet, that's a crime that can be labeled as theft. Imagine he spent the coins through a decentralized platform meanwhile the owner of those coins has already reported to the right authority and then the case in being investigated on. What do you think will happen to this "someone"  that spent the coins that doesn't belong to him?

If the owner of the address is dead and doesn't have a heir, then I assume you already know the answer to that your question.

[Donk1]

Well it's technically not a simple task to guess someone's private keys and hopefully you find that kind of amount of funds inside. To me there are two options, which is you either transfer the funds to another wallet, which isn't something I would consider, or you log out of the wallet It is as simple as that best to say  in such scenarios anything can happen because the possibilities are endless. For me, if you are an honest person, you wouldn't take what isn't yours in the first place. Like put yourself in the person's shoes and ask yourself, how would they feel? So yeah it's wrong. Except you want to get involved in looking for the owner, but that shouldn't be your business in the first place even if you say it's a lost wallet, you still wouldn't be able to tell if it's someone's actual wallet or not.so the fact remains,taking funds is still legally considered theft. Even though the system is decentralized, real world property laws still apply. Even if there is no one to judge you, your actions are what matter, and you can choose to do the right thing or the wrong thing. That's all......

[NeuroticFish]

How can someone even know or guess someone's bitcoin private key? That is not possible.

Since internally a private key is just a random number in an overly huge interval, collision is not impossible.

I totally agree that stealing is stealing. There is nothing it should be called than stealing.

I completely agree. Stealing is stealing and it's an awful thing.

if this ever happened on anyone. What actually will they do?

In order to answer to the topic too, I gave this quite some thinking.
First idea was to move the coins under my control and then leave details for the rightful owner to contact me so I can return them safely.
But it's difficult. What if my fresh wallet is not as safe as I'd think and a hacker steals everything? What if, for some reason I die before the rightful owner finds my note?
So as a second thought I think that the best thing I can do is to leave (anonymous) details (and a signed message) proving that I can access those funds and urge the owner move them.
After all, the chances somebody else gets too the same collision are incredibly small.

And please, imho this "dormant wallet" phrasing is a trap: many can have dormant wallets and still keep an eye on them. Also many dormant wallets are tied to collectibles. Stealing is still stealing.

[Obim34]

Technically this is a huge debate Im surely wanted to know some answers. Whats your thought on this?

A dormant wallet, which seems inaccessible to the owner, keeping aside the possibility of something like this happening, doesn't change why we call it theft. Originally, the Bitcoin doesn't belong to you, whether for any reason or how it became possible, and you gain access to the wallet and plan to take the coin, that's theft, taking what doesn't belong to you, It's you and your conscience.

In all of these circumstances, what concerns the government? Worse of it is reporting the case to the government and handing over the keys.

[Asuspawer09]

I believed there was no broken law if you just discover it unless you do it intentionally, like hack or phising a private key for sure it will all going to depend on the situation or the intention of it.

Depending on the local law for sure there are going to be some claims that is going to happened. I believe there are always claims if you are the owner of the funds, if you pick someone's money on the road, spend it or having the intent of keeping it for your own is going to be against the law here in my country if im not mistaken.

For me it might be a different story the owner is dead, and no one is going to claim the funds... but it might be fortunate for someone, since you could easily get tempted by this. Technically, you are hacking someone's wallet and get there funds. You might be able to get away with it, and get lucky, but there are for sure going to be some problems if you get traced.

[Findingnemo]

Technically, if you hold the private key, then you are the owner of those addresses, so the first thing I would do is a sweep.

I am a kind-hearted person and will be returning them if it is in hundred but a billion dollar treasure is no joke and everyone would do the same thing in my opinion.