Aggregator vs non-KYC exchange to improve BTC privacy before transactions

[takuma sato]

I have two questions. What is best to use before paying someone with BTC without having to use altcoins in the process?

1) An aggregator, like Trocador.app
2) Simply sending your funds into a non-KYC exchange like b1exch, waiting for some time, then withdrawing back to your local wallet

And an additional question: Are these services legal within EU and USA? Sometimes I may be traveling and I may be within these areas, or the reciever may live there. It's confusing because notkyc.me states this about Trocador.app:

Geographic Restrictions

Services are prohibited for residents of the US, EEA, and sanctioned regions. OFAC-sanctioned wallet addresses are automatically rejected

The funds im moving are lawful obviously, im just trying to have some privacy when transacting. I know the morons that make laws know nothing about how Bitcoin works and they put us all in trouble by getting rid of mixers or anything that can help you remain safe, however if im transacting to someone with a fully doxed service, I do not want to put them in trouble if after making my coins more private I get some unlucky AML risk coins and then sent them to them.

So basically, does anyone know if a non-KYC exchange is just good enough, or should I use an aggregator?

How do we know they are legit?

If someone has experience working in this context and has sufessfuly improved privacy on their BTC funds and then sent to a CEX or something like that to really test that nothing wrong happens please let me know so I can decide what to use.

Edit: I have just checke b1exch, and it does not allow BTC to BTC, so I would need to go through some altcoin? That's annoying since I don't have any altcoin software installed. Trocador.app allows BTC to BTC, but im not sure if using it from what I've said above.

[Findingnemo]

Privacy on what level? You don't want the receiver to know your address, or you don't want the government to know that?


There are many swap exchanges, but I doubt any of them have BTC-to-BTC service. You can send BTC on other chains at best, but if you don't want to use a mixer, then just do it with two swaps, convert BTC to a stablecoin then convert the stablecoin into BTC which gives privacy from the receiver.

[PrivacyG]

Edit: I have just checke b1exch, and it does not allow BTC to BTC, so I would need to go through some altcoin? That's annoying since I don't have any altcoin software installed. Trocador.app allows BTC to BTC, but im not sure if using it from what I've said above.

If b1exch allowed Bitcoin to Bitcoin it would be a Mixer, particularly considering they offer 'clean Bitcoin' and you would not hear about it on Bitcoin Talk.

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If you are not willing to do any Bitcoin to Altcoin exchanges, why do you not use Wasabi or Join Market instead?

[sergiorus]

Edit: I have just checke b1exch, and it does not allow BTC to BTC, so I would need to go through some altcoin? That's annoying since I don't have any altcoin software installed. Trocador.app allows BTC to BTC, but im not sure if using it from what I've said above.

If b1exch allowed Bitcoin to Bitcoin it would be a Mixer, particularly considering they offer 'clean Bitcoin' and you would not hear about it on Bitcoin Talk.

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If you are not willing to do any Bitcoin to Altcoin exchanges, why do you not use Wasabi or Join Market instead?

Wouldn't it be easier to just deposit BTC on some non-kyc exchange like MEXC (unless the size is very large, they have strict withdrawal limits with no-kyc) and then just withdraw it directly to their friend's wallet, or another non-custodial wallet created to deal with their friend's funds?

[BABY SHOES]

You want to exchange BTC to BTC then obviously it is considered a mixer, some instant swaps do not accept that processing, but there is one mixer that offers a 100% profit that will not be detected from the mixer, the source of the coins comes from the exchange again, so you will be free when submitting to CEX directly.

Note... I myself have not used this mixer myself.

[PX-Z]

Edit: I have just checke b1exch, and it does not allow BTC to BTC, so I would need to go through some altcoin? That's annoying since I don't have any altcoin software installed. Trocador.app allows BTC to BTC, but im not sure if using it from what I've said above.

That's the difference of aggregator and instant swap/exchange. Afaik swapzilla offers the same although not same on mainnet, it ciuld be against wrapped btc or lightning. Because if most instant exchanges do, it will be considered as mixer and they won't be  available on this forum to start with.

[RGBTC]

I don't have direct experience with this, but I am fairly certain that the geo-restrictions rely on detecting the IP address you use to access Trocador.
As I mentioned in another thread, if your goal is simply to maintain privacy relative to other users while ensuring the coins remain acceptable on any centralized platform, you need to make sure the route you choose on Trocador adheres to AML rules. Essentially, you are taking the risk upon yourself before the recipient of your bitcoin has to face it.

[ABCbits]

So basically, does anyone know if a non-KYC exchange is just good enough, or should I use an aggregator?

Before making decision, i would suggest you to check if the aggregator claim to offer any benefit than using the exchange/swap service directly. Some possible claimed benefit you may see are full/partial refund if the exchange/swap service perform scam and no KYC/AML on any scenario.

How do we know they are legit?

Not really different with other centralized service, you need to review other people review or testimony.

[takuma sato]

Edit: I have just checke b1exch, and it does not allow BTC to BTC, so I would need to go through some altcoin? That's annoying since I don't have any altcoin software installed. Trocador.app allows BTC to BTC, but im not sure if using it from what I've said above.

That's the difference of aggregator and instant swap/exchange. Afaik swapzilla offers the same although not same on mainnet, it ciuld be against wrapped btc or lightning. Because if most instant exchanges do, it will be considered as mixer and they won't be  available on this forum to start with.

Well Trocador.app is considered an aggregator and from what im seeing on the menu, you are able to select BTC to BTC. I have not tried it but in principle it works.
The problem with having to use some alt is it creates a taxable event, so with BTC to BTC you would avoid that.

[PX-Z]

Well Trocador.app is considered an aggregator and from what im seeing on the menu, you are able to select BTC to BTC. I have not tried it but in principle it works.
The problem with having to use some alt is it creates a taxable event, so with BTC to BTC you would avoid that.

What would be the reason for wanting to swap or make a btc to btctransaction in the first place? If you are already concerned about the reputation and reliability of non-kycservices and aggregators, why not simply send the btc directly from your own wallet?

You can also use coin control to select the specific utxos you want to spend, avoiding the unnecessary consolidation of unrelated utxos . That seems much simpler and avoids introducing another service.

[examplens]

2) Simply sending your funds into a non-KYC exchange like b1exch, waiting for some time, then withdrawing back to your local wallet

It seems you may not understand how b1exch works (or how any other instant exchanger works).
Instant swap exchange works according to the model, they send you coins after confirming your online deposit transaction. There is no possibility of a special withdrawal request.

[FinneysTrueVision]

You want to exchange BTC to BTC then obviously it is considered a mixer, some instant swaps do not accept that processing, but there is one mixer that offers a 100% profit that will not be detected from the mixer, the source of the coins comes from the exchange again, so you will be free when submitting to CEX directly.

Note... I myself have not used this mixer myself.

I think you are talking about a Jambler mixer. They do not offer 100% profit. They allow you to mix without paying fees, but it is limited to mixes of exactly 0.001 BTC. Mixing a large amount of BTC, 100k sats at a time, would be very inconvenient and time consuming. It is also not true that they cannot be detected. Anybody, including blockchain surveillance companies, can use those mixers and track their withdrawals across many hops by tracing their peel chains.

2) Simply sending your funds into a non-KYC exchange like b1exch, waiting for some time, then withdrawing back to your local wallet

b1exch is an instant exchange. You can’t deposit funds and then choose when to withdraw them. There are some other non-KYC exchanges you can register on and gain some privacy by doing this. If you consider NEAR Intents to be reputable, you can do that with confidential accounts on near.com.

[takuma sato]

Well Trocador.app is considered an aggregator and from what im seeing on the menu, you are able to select BTC to BTC. I have not tried it but in principle it works.
The problem with having to use some alt is it creates a taxable event, so with BTC to BTC you would avoid that.

What would be the reason for wanting to swap or make a btc to btctransaction in the first place? If you are already concerned about the reputation and reliability of non-kycservices and aggregators, why not simply send the btc directly from your own wallet?

You can also use coin control to select the specific utxos you want to spend, avoiding the unnecessary consolidation of unrelated utxos . That seems much simpler and avoids introducing another service.

Because you may have funds you want to use that are in an address that can be googled and tied to an identity of yours. So you need additional hops to break that link otherwise the receiver can google your address and find information about it plus whatever amount you have saved there.

2) Simply sending your funds into a non-KYC exchange like b1exch, waiting for some time, then withdrawing back to your local wallet

It seems you may not understand how b1exch works (or how any other instant exchanger works).
Instant swap exchange works according to the model, they send you coins after confirming your online deposit transaction. There is no possibility of a special withdrawal request.

Yeah I thought b1exch was a non-KYC exchange as in with an actual order book and so on.

Has anyone tried b1exch recently, or Trocador or any other solutions, and has tested their AML risk scores? What did it say?

[PrivacyG]

Wouldn't it be easier to just deposit BTC on some non-kyc exchange like MEXC (unless the size is very large, they have strict withdrawal limits with no-kyc) and then just withdraw it directly to their friend's wallet, or another non-custodial wallet created to deal with their friend's funds?

I personally do not trust that MEXC does not have some 'Shotgun Know Your Customer' kind of schemes ready for customers.  Particularly if the customer is seen having a habit of constantly depositing and withdrawing.

And then.  That could work in a way, particularly the 'send from one Address to the exchange and withdraw to another'.  But that has to happen with at least a few conditions.  Depositing and withdrawing the approximately same amount and in a short time window can be correlated.  I send 0.15 Bitcoin to MEXC.  If someone else receives 0.15 Bitcoin minus their Fee from MEXC, that can be suspected to be the same person who initially deposited.  OP would need to withdraw in chunks, days apart.  But again.  I would not personally trust MEXC with this.

[sergiorus]

Wouldn't it be easier to just deposit BTC on some non-kyc exchange like MEXC (unless the size is very large, they have strict withdrawal limits with no-kyc) and then just withdraw it directly to their friend's wallet, or another non-custodial wallet created to deal with their friend's funds?

I personally do not trust that MEXC does not have some 'Shotgun Know Your Customer' kind of schemes ready for customers.  Particularly if the customer is seen having a habit of constantly depositing and withdrawing.

And then.  That could work in a way, particularly the 'send from one Address to the exchange and withdraw to another'.  But that has to happen with at least a few conditions.  Depositing and withdrawing the approximately same amount and in a short time window can be correlated.  I send 0.15 Bitcoin to MEXC.  If someone else receives 0.15 Bitcoin minus their Fee from MEXC, that can be suspected to be the same person who initially deposited.  OP would need to withdraw in chunks, days apart.  But again.  I would not personally trust MEXC with this.

I don't think that would be a problem. That's not against their terms of service. Moreover, funds and OTC desks/trading firms do that all the time for the privacy purposes.

After all, you pay the withdrawal fee to the exchange so it's not like you abuse some of their features for free.

[NotATether]

1) An aggregator, like Trocador.app
2) Simply sending your funds into a non-KYC exchange like b1exch, waiting for some time, then withdrawing back to your local wallet

Neither of these. Privacy depends on the service operator. It is better to do an XMR bridge, Near Intents, Thorchain or, dare I say it, Tornado Cash (it has been allowed by the government now!) - these are all more private than a swap or a mixer service.

Coinjoins are good too, but they ruin your AML score.

[hugeblack]

Has anyone tried b1exch recently, or Trocador or any other solutions, and has tested their AML risk scores? What did it say?

Trocador is not an option when discussing privacy; it never touches or holds your funds, but rather routes your transaction across multiple underlying platforms to find the best rates. If we look at their list of partners, we find...

FixedFloat
ChangeNOW
StealthEX
SimpleSwap

If you search for these services on the forum, you will find that some of them are scams or, at the very least, require KYC.

[NIka_now]

Hi,

We completely understand your frustration. We know that dealing with an additional review can be stressful, especially when your funds are involved.

ChangeNOW supports legitimate crypto activity and follows industry security and AML standards. We do not support illegal activity or transactions involving stolen, fraudulent or otherwise illicit funds. These safeguards are in place to protect our clients and the wider crypto ecosystem.

When using ChangeNOW, you agree to our Terms of Use, including our AML/KYC Policy: https://changenow.io/terms-of-use/aml-kyc.

We understand that having a transaction placed on hold can be stressful, especially when you know your funds were obtained legitimately. Please be assured that legitimate funds will be either processed or refunded based on the outcome of the review. We know this process can be frustrating and we're doing everything we can to make it as smooth as possible and minimize the inconvenience for our clients.

We understand why this situation may affect your trust, but an AML review is a security measure and should not be taken as evidence that ChangeNOW is a scam.


ChangeNOW

[PrivacyG]

We understand that having a transaction placed on hold can be stressful, especially when you know your funds were obtained legitimately. Please be assured that legitimate funds will be either processed or refunded based on the outcome of the review.

We appreciate your reply but you completely forgot to add a '*' with a foot note that this stress may last over 500 days.  It would be good to let your customers know in advance so they can purchase some anti stress medication because it is definitely not healthy to be stressed out for that many days in a row.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5545617.0