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Author Topic: New attack on the bitcoin network.  (Read 1987 times)
VolanicEruptor
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April 06, 2014, 04:45:32 PM
 #1

Just look at the recent blocks solved.  Very few transactions are even making it through right now because of it. 
Of course they picked a Sunday to do this, when nobody is around to fix this BS. 

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April 06, 2014, 04:51:01 PM
 #2

Just look at the recent blocks solved.  Very few transactions are even making it through right now because of it. 
Of course they picked a Sunday to do this, when nobody is around to fix this BS. 

I always think its a problem... but due to my limited knowledge in mining algo, I cant justify it.

Ref 1: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551616.0

Ref 2: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551649.0

VolanicEruptor
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April 06, 2014, 04:56:02 PM
 #3

I've mentioned before that being able to pass blocks through without transactions is an economic waste.  I was burned at the cross for not acknowledging that the system is democratic and miners can do whatever they want.  Meanwhile people can't get their transactions through.  What a fucking joke..

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April 06, 2014, 04:56:07 PM
Last edit: April 06, 2014, 05:28:47 PM by DannyHamilton
 #4

Just look at the recent blocks solved.

I'm looking.  I don't see any problem that needs to be fixed.  Perhaps you can explain what it is that I'm not seeing?

Very few transactions are even making it through right now because of it.

Making it through where?

Of course they picked a Sunday to do this, when nobody is around to fix this BS.  

Not around?  Where do the people who can fix problems go to on Sundays? Mars?

Perhaps a few more details about what it is that has you in a panic would help others put your mind at ease.



EDIT:

Sorry, I failed to realize I was dealing with a troll.

Please don't feed the trolls.  This post has been edited to remove the troll food.

VolanicEruptor
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April 06, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
 #5

Quote

Making it through where?

If you can't figure out that this means an unreasonably long confirmation time, you shouldn't be in this thread.  I shouldn't have to spell that out for you.



Quote

Not around?  Where do the people who can fix problems go to on Sundays? Mars?


Sundays are common times to spend time with the family instead of at work or at the computer.  You didn't know this?

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April 06, 2014, 05:15:45 PM
 #6

Quote

Making it through where?

If you can't figure out that this means an unreasonably long confirmation time, you shouldn't be in this thread.  I shouldn't have to spell that out for you.



Quote

Not around?  Where do the people who can fix problems go to on Sundays? Mars?


Sundays are common times to spend time with the family instead of at work or at the computer.  You didn't know this?

So what would they do to fix it if it weren't Sunday?
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April 06, 2014, 05:17:48 PM
 #7

I've mentioned before that being able to pass blocks through without transactions is an economic waste.  I was burned at the cross for not acknowledging that the system is democratic and miners can do whatever they want.  Meanwhile people can't get their transactions through.  What a fucking joke..


It's not necessarily an economic waste. If you include many Tx in your Block it will be bigger in size and therefore propagate slower through the network, making it more like to be an orphan.
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April 06, 2014, 05:31:54 PM
 #8

I can't make a conclusion of this due to my limited knowledge in mining
BunsenBurner
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April 06, 2014, 06:08:58 PM
 #9

I don't see anything wrong with the blocks.
Even if we have 1 or 2 selfish miners, there is not much problem as the unconfirmed tx will be picked up by the next block or so.
After all, we are still far from the 1MB block limit.

VolanicEruptor
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April 07, 2014, 02:55:03 AM
 #10

I don't see anything wrong with the blocks.
Even if we have 1 or 2 selfish miners, there is not much problem as the unconfirmed tx will be picked up by the next block or so.
After all, we are still far from the 1MB block limit.

Okay, so what happens if every miner turns selfish?  Do you expect most of them to always be good at heart?

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April 07, 2014, 02:56:18 AM
 #11

Quote

Making it through where?

If you can't figure out that this means an unreasonably long confirmation time, you shouldn't be in this thread.  I shouldn't have to spell that out for you.



Quote

Not around?  Where do the people who can fix problems go to on Sundays? Mars?


Sundays are common times to spend time with the family instead of at work or at the computer.  You didn't know this?

So what would they do to fix it if it weren't Sunday?

They would call the Greenbay Packers, of course.

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April 07, 2014, 03:01:03 AM
 #12

I don't see anything wrong with the blocks.
Even if we have 1 or 2 selfish miners, there is not much problem as the unconfirmed tx will be picked up by the next block or so.
After all, we are still far from the 1MB block limit.

Okay, so what happens if every miner turns selfish?  Do you expect most of them to always be good at heart?

if mining pools put in silly rules such as what eligius have done in the past.. then if it causes too much trouble, people will not use those mining pools and instead make new pools that have better code to be more honest.

after all if a pool is going to mess with peoples transactions so they cant even cash out their bitcoin into an exchange. then they wont use the pool.

mining pool owners love shooting themselves in the foot due to greed.. im glad the number of feet they have to shoot is limited before their left crawling on their hands and knees.

if anyone finds out which pools are messing with blocks/transactions. post the pools IP so everyone can remove the ip from their supernodes lists, allowing for other pools that are more ethical to receive transactions. then the miners will move onto the more ethical pools, because they will learn they wont be able to withdraw any unethical block rewards. wasting their mining hashpower on an unethical pool that wont pay out

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skooter
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April 07, 2014, 03:19:39 AM
 #13

I don't see anything wrong with the blocks.
Even if we have 1 or 2 selfish miners, there is not much problem as the unconfirmed tx will be picked up by the next block or so.
After all, we are still far from the 1MB block limit.

Okay, so what happens if every miner turns selfish?  Do you expect most of them to always be good at heart?

if mining pools put in silly rules such as what eligius have done in the past.. then if it causes too much trouble, people will not use those mining pools and instead make new pools that have better code to be more honest.

after all if a pool is going to mess with peoples transactions so they cant even cash out their bitcoin into an exchange. then they wont use the pool.

mining pool owners love shooting themselves in the foot due to greed.. im glad the number of feet they have to shoot is limited before their left crawling on their hands and knees.

if anyone finds out which pools are messing with blocks/transactions. post the pools IP so everyone can remove the ip from their supernodes lists, allowing for other pools that are more ethical to receive transactions. then the miners will move onto the more ethical pools, because they will learn they wont be able to withdraw any unethical block rewards. wasting their mining hashpower on an unethical pool that wont pay out

The fuck are you on?

If anything the reward for mining for an "unethical" pool would be higher, if only slightly.

Every tx you add to a block slightly increases the odds of it being orphaned. So if a pool say, refuses to add any tx that doesn't have at least a meaningful fee (say .0001), that's BENEFICIAL to pool members.
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April 07, 2014, 03:22:39 AM
 #14

Complaining about a day of bitcoin trouble in spring 2014 is like complaining about a day of internet trouble in spring 1994.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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April 07, 2014, 03:40:50 AM
 #15


The fuck are you on?

If anything the reward for mining for an "unethical" pool would be higher, if only slightly.

Every tx you add to a block slightly increases the odds of it being orphaned. So if a pool say, refuses to add any tx that doesn't have at least a meaningful fee (say .0001), that's BENEFICIAL to pool members.

what da' crap are you on.. the idea of blocks is to confirm transactions.. if people are ignoring transactions then they are ignoring the whole point in mining.. and only doing it for greed.. meaning unethical..

no transaction should be ignored. otherwise the benefits of bitcoin disintegrates..

hmm let me guess you dont care about bitcoin. you just want to cash out your mining reward back to fiat and store it in a bank account. and you dont give a fuck about the benefits bitcoin can bring.

lets get to your point though

if i had 1000 transactions, they are just 1000 transactions whether they have a fee or dont have a fee, they are just transaction data.
the fee does not change the chances of a orphan.
pool owners want to reduce the 1% risk of an orphan by only allowing in 100 transactions of data.. again whether with fee's or not, does not affect orphan chance. but what does affect orphan chance is data amount.

pools are getting so greedy by not just accepting transactions. that they are forcing people to add fee's. not because it reduces the risk of orphans. but because it gives them VIP status to be allowed into a small and limited block.

which goes totally against what bitcoin was all about. transaction freedoms.

we are trying to move away from the banking system that requires high transaction costs just to do business EG Mastercard Black

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
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April 07, 2014, 04:17:39 AM
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The fuck are you on?

If anything the reward for mining for an "unethical" pool would be higher, if only slightly.

Every tx you add to a block slightly increases the odds of it being orphaned. So if a pool say, refuses to add any tx that doesn't have at least a meaningful fee (say .0001), that's BENEFICIAL to pool members.

what da' crap are you on.. the idea of blocks is to confirm transactions.. if people are ignoring transactions then they are ignoring the whole point in mining.. and only doing it for greed.. meaning unethical..

no transaction should be ignored. otherwise the benefits of bitcoin disintegrates..

hmm let me guess you dont care about bitcoin. you just want to cash out your mining reward back to fiat and store it in a bank account. and you dont give a fuck about the benefits bitcoin can bring.

lets get to your point though

if i had 1000 transactions, they are just 1000 transactions whether they have a fee or dont have a fee, they are just transaction data.
the fee does not change the chances of a orphan.
pool owners want to reduce the 1% risk of an orphan by only allowing in 100 transactions of data.. again whether with fee's or not, does not affect orphan chance. but what does affect orphan chance is data amount.

pools are getting so greedy by not just accepting transactions. that they are forcing people to add fee's. not because it reduces the risk of orphans. but because it gives them VIP status to be allowed into a small and limited block.

which goes totally against what bitcoin was all about. transaction freedoms.

we are trying to move away from the banking system that requires high transaction costs just to do business EG Mastercard Black


Yeah, that might've been the pipe dream, but the reality is people paid millions for asic hardware to be greedy and make a profit.
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April 07, 2014, 04:28:49 AM
 #17

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22cohy/8024121746_mining_18_blocks_today_containing/
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April 07, 2014, 07:36:49 AM
 #18

The fee for transactions is not determined by the client. It's determined by miners. If miners want to charge more, they can. Other miners can undercut them, but now that a few big mining pools have most of the hash capacity, it's in their interest to crank up the fees. If you want fast confirmations (or, during busy periods, any confirmations) it's going to cost you.

Cutting the default fee in the Bitcoin client was probably a mistake. That cut the fees paid to miners. They didn't have to put up with that, and it looks like they're pushing back.

If you put a fee of 1% of the transaction cost on a transaction, does it get confirmed quickly?
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April 07, 2014, 08:21:38 AM
 #19

The fee for transactions is not determined by the client. It's determined by miners. If miners want to charge more, they can. Other miners can undercut them, but now that a few big mining pools have most of the hash capacity, it's in their interest to crank up the fees. If you want fast confirmations (or, during busy periods, any confirmations) it's going to cost you.

Cutting the default fee in the Bitcoin client was probably a mistake. That cut the fees paid to miners. They didn't have to put up with that, and it looks like they're pushing back.

If you put a fee of 1% of the transaction cost on a transaction, does it get confirmed quickly?

The miners generally make there decision based on fee per kilobyte, not fee per BTC.

Therefore, a 1 BTC transaction that is smaller than 1 kilobyte and pays a 1% fee will almost certainly be in the next block that includes transactions. Meanwhile, a 0.001 BTC transaction that is larger than 1 kilobyte might have to wait hours or days before a miner that's willing to confirm the transaction solves a block.

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April 07, 2014, 03:06:18 PM
 #20

Well yeah, I guess someone should fix it, the bitcoin foundation should be held repsonsible in doing that, if they cant do it , then bring a new foundation, The foundation of the Bitcoin,  Grin

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