Facebook Marketplace, Amazon, Airbnb and Cash App, in one platform priced in sat

[TheButterZone]

All this clamoring for escrow needs to stop. If you think your counterparty is untrustworthy, you can't trust any escrow your counterparty wants to use either. I'd rather never sell anything than risk everything on escrow.

[jhone225]

If you think your counterparty is untrustworthy, you can't trust any escrow your counterparty wants to use either.

Thanks TheButterZone. Agreed on random escrow a stranger brings to a deal.

[dkbit98]

The shipping one is the part I cannot argue with. Vinted works because the buyer and seller never have to meet, and that needs courier deals and holding the money until it arrives. Both of those are out of reach for me on my own with no funding.

This is why I am saying it is hard to compete with Vinted, especially when you know they are expanding to US soon.
Instead I would like to see someone working on building on top of Vinted so that people can pay with bitcoin.
Again, I am not against your idea for Marketplace, but I am just being realistic.

[Ucy]

the Needlist is specifically designed for Bitcoin Circular or Self-sustaining Economy

Thanks Ucy. I like the idea and I am considering building it. The only thing holding me back is that right now it would be an empty page. Not enough people on there yet for it to be worth putting up.

What you said about the fiat system is my main reason for all of this. It keeps inflating and it keeps making life harder, and I want out of it. People can still price in fiat on CashSats if they want, but bitcoin is the focus, not an asset controlled by someone else.

So getting people trading in bitcoin is the whole point, and the need list fits that, somewhere to find the things people need day to day.

The list is what brings in the users.
Let's assume the Marketplace is international and for virtual goods and services, a placement like I sell this and often need a  programmer, NFT creator, an artist, etc, will attract many people who will first register, also list what they sell, create their needlist and then contact or get paired with the one who attracted them to the marketplace. The list is a great incentive that people will compete to fulfill

[jhone225]

Instead I would like to see someone working on building on top of Vinted so that people can pay with bitcoin.

Fair enough, and I get why you see it that way. Building on top of Vinted puts you at their mercy though, they can shut it off whenever they want. I would rather own the thing, even if it grows slower.

The list is what brings in the users.

Thanks Ucy. I see what you mean, the list comes first and the users follow.

I will be honest with you though. Running this on my own, what I have seen so far is that the group of people who actually treat bitcoin as a replacement for fiat is very small. I have pitched this to a lot of people, bitcoiners included, and it made me wonder whether I am wrong about CashSats having a market at all. Most of them want to keep using fiat day to day and just hold bitcoin, which is the opposite of Satoshi's vision in the 2008 white paper, a peer to peer electronic cash system.

I understand the speed argument. What I do not understand is why we are happy to let BlackRock and the big firms decide what bitcoin becomes, when fiat keeps debasing and there is no ceiling on the debt.

So the thing I keep coming back to is this. If bitcoiners themselves will not spend it, how do I convince anyone else to.

[dkbit98]

Fair enough, and I get why you see it that way. Building on top of Vinted puts you at their mercy though, they can shut it off whenever they want. I would rather own the thing, even if it grows slower.

You are right, but it's not like you are going to have it easy ride doing it your way, isn't it?
Growing slower is ok, but not growing at all is more realistic outcome.

I understand the speed argument. What I do not understand is why we are happy to let BlackRock and the big firms decide what bitcoin becomes, when fiat keeps debasing and there is no ceiling on the debt.

I was not happy about that at all, but I guess many bitcoin whales wanted that

[Ucy]

Thanks Ucy. I see what you mean, the list comes first and the users follow.

I will be honest with you though. Running this on my own, what I have seen so far is that the group of people who actually treat bitcoin as a replacement for fiat is very small. I have pitched this to a lot of people, bitcoiners included, and it made me wonder whether I am wrong about CashSats having a market at all. Most of them want to keep using fiat day to day and just hold bitcoin, which is the opposite of Satoshi's vision in the 2008 white paper, a peer to peer electronic cash system.

I understand the speed argument. What I do not understand is why we are happy to let BlackRock and the big firms decide what bitcoin becomes, when fiat keeps debasing and there is no ceiling on the debt.

So the thing I keep coming back to is this. If bitcoiners themselves will not spend it, how do I convince anyone else to.

Ofcourse, jhone225. Those are the major issues well-meaning Bitcoiners are trying to sort out. There are couple of very workable solutions, one of which is the Needlist... I believe it will attract them quickly. It's a very potent incentive and works effortless. it's like a Job offer list, many people want to work and get paid, they flock to job sites. Research real job sites and you'll understand better.

Regarding those unwilling to spend their bitcoins... the main reason they do this is to let the bitcoins appreciate in value, right? What if there are other things they are sure will give them equal or greater value as Bitcoin. This is why we focus more on Needs rather than Wants (the unnecessary or less profitable things). A cattle or poultry farm could give you greater value than what Bitcoin could give you in couple months. If you invest your bitcoins in chicks, in a maximum of six months, they would grow many folds in terms of sizes and monetary values. Compare that to holding bitcoins within thesame period. And when you sell matured chickens you get paid in bitcoins. You buy the chicks from a Bitcoiner and you sell to another bitcoiner, that's basically what circular Bitcoin economy is all about. It's the kind of Economy or Marketplace we want to see developed. By the way, if you invest $500 worth of bitcoins in the Poultry business, you could gain additional bitcoins, or maybe a minimum of 30% profit in bitcoins. That's is an increase in your bitcoin valuable after the chickens are sold. Ofcourse, you also need to know how to raise chickens and be profitable.

We expect most things that will be sold on such Marketplace to be "Needs" (necessary or profitable things). Another term for this is Investing in Productivity. If you invest in stuff like coffee, it could help you become more productive and earn more bitcoins. If you invest in poultry, you sell mature chickens for more bitcoins. If you invest in profitable bitcoin project/business, it earns you more bitcoins.
In summary, if you want people to spend their bitcoins, have them spend them on things that earn them more bitcoins. It's almost thesame as holding bitcoins.


Finally,  people who join the Marketplace for "job offers" will have to include on their Sell Sections the list of products/services they sell, and that will include the Needlists of other members they join the marketplace to fulfill. It may just be the Needlists of others that they add on their sell sections if they want to..This Sell part is easy to setup. Then the next step is setting up their own Needlists (or what they would want to buy from other members).

[jhone225]

Growing slower is ok, but not growing at all is more realistic outcome.

Hard to argue with that. Most of these die and I know it. But building on someone else’s platform means they decide when it ends, not me, and it would only ever be a bitcoin button bolted onto their idea.

What I am after is a bitcoin economy in one place. An auction section, a wallet that can stand next to Strike and the rest, a booking section for hotels and flights, an events section, and eventually jobs for people who want to be paid in bitcoin. None of that is possible sitting on top of someone else’s site.

It’s like a Job offer list, many people want to work and get paid, they flock to job sites.

Thanks Ucy. The job board comparison makes sense, but a job site works because there are thousands of listings on it. With the number of users CashSats has, a needs page would show a handful of rows and tell a seller there is no business here.

I mocked it up to see it properly and it does not hold up yet. Parking it until there are enough people on there for it to mean something.

[Ucy]

Thanks Ucy. The job board comparison makes sense, but a job site works because there are thousands of listings on it. With the number of users CashSats has, a needs page would show a handful of rows and tell a seller there is no business here.

I mocked it up to see it properly and it does not hold up yet. Parking it until there are enough people on there for it to mean something.

Would you mind revealing the method used for the mock up... I mean, were the members real members with real needlists that participants can get paid for, and with proven bitcoin reserves?
Maybe try sharing that part on this forum to see how forum members react to it. I believe many forum members will join to get paid in bitcoins if there is reasonable gurantee that the listings are genuine and that they will get paid after completing the tasks


It's important that you inform intending participants that new members with buy sections ("I buy" section) that have what the Needlisters they hope to work for need, have higher chances of getting accepted by them.   That's, if a Needlister has coffee on his sell section ("I sell" section) and chicken on need/buy section, a new member who wants to get accepted quickly should have coffee on his buy/need section and then chicken on his sell section.
* Chances of getting accepted further increase if new members share thesame location with Needlisters and are reputable/reliable. The chance factors are not necessary but important, to increase one's chances of getting accepted in highly competitive marketplace. You can just focus on selling and still get accepted if no fellow competitors have higher competitve edges

[jhone225]

Would you mind revealing the method used for the mock up... I mean, were the members real members with real needlists that participants can get paid for, and with proven bitcoin reserves?

Nothing real in it, Ucy. I drew a page with made-up rows to see how it would look and feel. No members, no money, just a layout.

On the two-way matching, I get the idea, but finding two people in the same city who both want what the other has to sell will be hard outside a small community. Unless you mean matching people across countries, but then shipping becomes a problem.

On jobs, I like the idea, but I cannot do it yet. Fake listings that collect people’s details are common, and without escrow, someone could do the work and disappear without paying.

Maybe I need to step back and rethink the approach. Perhaps the needlists need to be presented differently, or CashSats needs to offer something else besides what it does now. Even the payment method might need a rethink. Getting people to join has been harder than I expected, so maybe I need to look at the idea from a different angle.