[WARNING] Grading Redeemed Coins

[minerjones]

I recently bought a redeemed Casascius 25 BTC coin to add to my collection.

It came with the hologram still "attached" to where it still stuck to the coin when out of the capsule

I sent it into NGC to be graded and they sent it back with no hologram.... yet there are still first-bits on the slab.

Now how can a coin with no hologram have first bits?

NGC claims it might have not been included or lost and will not reimburse me due to their "Fragile Coin" policy.


BEFORE GRADING:



AFTER GRADING:

[Rymaster]

Jeez how disheartening, after I’m sure you went out of your way to obtain a coin with a hologram vs without. Clearly NGC had the hologram at some point also, as you pointed out with them including the firstbits.

[rsincognito]

this is so sad, sorry bro =(. 

[krogoth]

Another reason for me not sending any coins for grading

[timbodine]

Bush league

[alandelon]

Hi MinerJones, I’m really sorry. I can’t believe they could be so incompetent. Why didn’t you get it graded by PCGS?

[MoparMiningLLC]

I wonder...

if you send them an unredeemed coin and the holo goes "missing" does it still count as not their liability due to their "Fragile Coin" policy?

[2stout]

Hi MinerJones, I’m really sorry. I can’t believe they could be so incompetent. Why didn’t you get it graded by PCGS?

PCGS isn't really any better:  They charge 2- 3x more, mess up label descriptions, and even damaged a note of mine by creasing a corner.  My saving grace was I had before pics showing no damage to it in the protective holder with the Submission and Line # sticker affixed; however, although agreed up, reimbursement has been slow and not received yet.  And, don't get me started on inconsistent grading.

[minerjones]

Hi MinerJones, I’m really sorry. I can’t believe they could be so incompetent. Why didn’t you get it graded by PCGS?

PCGS isn't really any better:  They charge 2- 3x more, mess up label descriptions, and even damaged a note of mine by creasing a corner.  My saving grace was I had before pics showing no damage to it in the protective holder with the Submission and Line # sticker affixed; however, although agreed up, reimbursement has been slow and not received yet.  And, don't get me started on inconsistent grading.

I agree with you 100%. Seemingly taking longer and longer for their so called "Express" service
At least NGC is cheaper and better turn-around times

Labeling is the most frustrating part of all of this, as all of the grading companies tend to put whatever they want regardless of what is shown and stated on the submission forms.
I have even gone to the length of printed out whole sheets of paper identifying coins/notes with highlighted parts... and still disregarded.
And then things have to be resubmitted which incurs more time, fees and shipping costs.....  

Being all of this, going forward I am no longer grading any coins for myself or anyone else
Happy to be a sport and give away a few PCGS or NGC memberships if anyone is interested

[Kialara]

That really sucks, especially since the missing hologram clearly hurts the value of the coin. The fact that NGC recorded the First Bits on the label seems like pretty strong evidence that it was there when they received it. If it disappeared while the coin was in their possession, I think they owe you for the loss in value and should refund the submission fee too. Speaking as someone who runs a company, if that happened to one of my customers, I wouldn’t even question it - I’d make them whole however I could. I’ve had my own frustrations with NGC too, so unfortunately this doesn’t totally surprise me, but regardless, in your situation I think they should do the right thing and make you whole.

[ClearSky8]

Sorry to hear, MJ. That’s a real shame. There should definitely be some accountability on NGC’s part. Since these are ongoing submission and quality control issues, it should be brought to the attention of those in charge.
I’ve argued with them over sloppy work and errors as well. And I suggest email to Scott Schechter, Chief Numismatist and Senior Vice President, Grading - quality issues and or Ben Wengel, Chief Grader and Senior Vice President, World Coins ( Otoh collection ran through him at World Coins, I believe  ) to relay events.

[2stout]

Hi MinerJones, I’m really sorry. I can’t believe they could be so incompetent. Why didn’t you get it graded by PCGS?

PCGS isn't really any better:  They charge 2- 3x more, mess up label descriptions, and even damaged a note of mine by creasing a corner.  My saving grace was I had before pics showing no damage to it in the protective holder with the Submission and Line # sticker affixed; however, although agreed up, reimbursement has been slow and not received yet.  And, don't get me started on inconsistent grading.

I agree with you 100%. Seemingly taking longer and longer for their so called "Express" service
At least NGC is cheaper and better turn-around times

Labeling is the most frustrating part of all of this, as all of the grading companies tend to put whatever they want regardless of what is shown and stated on the submission forms.
I have even gone to the length of printed out whole sheets of paper identifying coins/notes with highlighted parts... and still disregarded.
And then things have to be resubmitted which incurs more time, fees and shipping costs.....  

Being all of this, going forward I am no longer grading any coins for myself or anyone else
Happy to be a sport and give away a few PCGS or NGC memberships if anyone is interested

As far as the labeling, I 150% understand your frustration as it results in colossal wastes of time, energy, and money also.  I've also gone through great lengths with notes, explanations, and such.  What I have found that has hands down been most effective and worked the best is providing both PCGS and NGC with mock ups.  I would take pics, edits texts, and use AI to get as close as possible to how the slab should look.  Pain in the ass- yes, totally worth it- absolutely IMHO as the error and return rates dropped beyond significant.  

Here's a PCGS example- mock up I sent and slab received back respectively.

My Mock Up                                                                                                  Actual Slab received back from grading
   

[MoparMiningLLC]

also is it me - or is that label crooked af? rather the text is or no?

@2stout that is a great mock up - but sad when you have to tell and show them how to do it and then pay them to do it as well...

[2stout]

also is it me - or is that label crooked af? rather the text is or no?

@2stout that is a great mock up - but sad when you have to tell and show them how to do it and then pay them to do it as well...

@Mopar- Thx!  It is a damn shame it has come to this but it seems to be way that has so far yielded by far the best results.

[dozerz]

this sux and just confirms to me not to send these jokers your coins, ms60 also? way to go in decreasing the value but adding the firstbits to the label, fail

[aoluain]

Thats disappointing and unsatisfactory all round.

I'm thinking it could be a number of things:

Their staff lack the attention to detail the collectors require
The graders have no love or enthusiasm for their work
They are under staffed for the amount of work expected

@mj - I wonder is there a chance the holo got detached before it reached the grader,
stuck in the packaging?

You would think they would know at this stage that the holo was an integral part of
the coun itself, unless it was handled by a newbie?

[minerjones]

@mj - I wonder is there a chance the holo got detached before it reached the grader,
stuck in the packaging?

Coins are always submitted in plastic flips... they hold the coin pretty snug/securely inside
Zero idea/reason why the coin and hologram would have been removed before they got to the grader.

Having the first bits on the slab clearly show they had the hologram at some point in the process and then just lost it... 
Who know... maybe when they slabbed the coin it came off
I know they jet the coins with some compressed air to get off all particulates before sealing them.

[OgNasty]

Coins are always submitted in plastic flips... they hold the coin pretty snug/securely inside
Zero idea/reason why the coin and hologram would have been removed before they got to the grader.

My guess is a new employee who thought it was trash and just threw it away. This is the sort of thing that screams diversity and inclusion in the workplace to me. I know, I know. Terrible person. I doubt this happens if the employee has ever graded a coin with a hologram before.

[alandelon]

Coins are always submitted in plastic flips... they hold the coin pretty snug/securely inside
Zero idea/reason why the coin and hologram would have been removed before they got to the grader.

My guess is a new employee who thought it was trash and just threw it away. This is the sort of thing that screams diversity and inclusion in the workplace to me. I know, I know. Terrible person. I doubt this happens if the employee has ever graded a coin with a hologram before.

I have the opposite opinion. I think the person who submitted it for grading believed it contained the 25 BTC, so they completely removed the hologram in an attempt to access those bitcoins. Unfortunately, it’s absolutely crazy that something like this could happen.

[OgNasty]

I have the opposite opinion. I think the person who submitted it for grading believed it contained the 25 BTC, so they completely removed the hologram in an attempt to access those bitcoins. Unfortunately, it’s absolutely crazy that something like this could happen.