Online poker without people

[oll]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

[Free Market Capitalist]

Or has it already?

To a large extent. Online poker experienced a boom in the early 2000s, began to decline starting in 2011, and—except during the COVID era—has continued to decline. First came the poker schools, with equity analyzers and statistics software. Then came the Solvers and bots. These days, with AI and RTA, I think it’s only worth playing live.

[bakasabo]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

Who would win (philosophical question; not speaking about finances) if there would be AI poker players or AI players would play against each other? At the beginning casinos might be winning because they will still be earning their share from the game, but later I think that would start killing the game and AI players will turn unwanted or prohibited.

Who would be "the demand" in this case? Users that has no friends to play with? Users who will use AI player as an instrument to earn by playing poker? But if AI constantly learn, in a game where only AI compete against each other, it will turn game into a game with random result, where if the same game happens between humans, those who are more experienced poker player have higher chances to win. So to say using AI players in poker will make game more unpredictable.

[Sally9256]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

AI have seriously affected and will continue to affect our daily affairs and business as it stands now, there is nothing humanly possible and impossible that AI won't create or developed when properly instructed. Even that of online poker situation of knowing the next move of a player, that is nothing serious to an AI to predict if being commanded, some minutes and a strong connections might be just what it's needs. In fact AI can even develop a program that can even hack the entire system of an online game to know every step and who to likely win the game. I believe the only casino that an AI might just be able to predict but can't be 100% accurate is a sport casinos that are usually played in real life.

[Fortify]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

Most of the top players learned how to read their opponents and the heads up statistical software they used gave them all the numbers they needed really. You're right though, AI is likely to make online poker even harder to navigate unless you're playing with the same tools and strategy. It will be able to identify weaknesses but is still going to need time to accumulate enough data to profile a player. I can actually see a clever online poker site anonymizing people after they login or even whenever they enter a table to defeat or at least slow down this sort of "abuse". That way you'd only be able to judge a player based on what you see of their current session. I think most of those flags like "constantly calling" or "bluffs a lot" have already been built into software that has been around for ages; so AI might not be that big a break through.

[OgNasty]

I think this is probably an advantage that will pop up for brick and mortar casinos. Right away the thought that comes to mind is that I don’t want to be playing against AI players. They would likely have all sorts of advantages that we can’t even comprehend. I want to play against drunk people who have been up all night.

[MisFoxie]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

I don't know if AI has reached this stage yet. Of course AI will be able to do this easily but if AI does everything in a poker game then why would people even play it? Just to make a profit? If profit is the only purpose then everyone will use AI models In that case the competition will not be totally skill versus skill, it will be AI vs AI which is just like gambling. But on the other hand those who play poker will play to show their intelligence and skills and they will play for enjoyment. They will never want AI to be used in poker. If everyone plays through their skills and one person uses AI it's almost like a hacker entering a game.

[BIT-BENDER]

Or has it already?

To a large extent. Online poker experienced a boom in the early 2000s, began to decline starting in 2011, and—except during the COVID era—has continued to decline. First came the poker schools, with equity analyzers and statistics software. Then came the Solvers and bots. These days, with AI and RTA, I think it’s only worth playing live.

So in a nut shell this isn't the problem of Ai, because humans are never satisfied infact it's that continuous search for easy wins or fun that makes Artificial intelligence relevant, Elon musk has said artificial intelligence will have its own artificial intelligence in the future which means the present artificial intelligence will definitely copy all traits of humans.
I think you are correct before Ai there was bots so what ever negative outcomes that happens we have to bare it.

[Alex077]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
...

I think to some extent, this has already happened.   But modern AI systems have definitely taken these capabilities to a whole new level.
Based on this information, the algorithm can adjust its strategy and take advantage of each player's weaknesses. And it can do all of this much faster and more consistently than most human players. However, I think we need to make a distinction between two things: using AI to learn and analyze hands that have already been played, and using AI during actual gameplay to gain an advantage over other players. In the second case, we're basically talking about cheating, because regular players are put at a clear disadvantage.

But in my opinion, it's going to become increasingly difficult to eliminate this threat completely. Modern algorithms can imitate human behavior, change their playing style, and even deliberately make mistakes to avoid raising suspicion and getting detected by security systems.

[M47AK16]

Who would win (philosophical question; not speaking about finances) if there would be AI poker players or AI players would play against each other? At the beginning casinos might be winning because they will still be earning their share from the game, but later I think that would start killing the game and AI players will turn unwanted or prohibited.

Who would be "the demand" in this case? Users that has no friends to play with? Users who will use AI player as an instrument to earn by playing poker? But if AI constantly learn, in a game where only AI compete against each other, it will turn game into a game with random result, where if the same game happens between humans, those who are more experienced poker player have higher chances to win. So to say using AI players in poker will make game more unpredictable.

I would second this, and say that if AI is used by people to play in their place in poker, over time, this will become a norm, and if a table has only AI players who are playing for their human bosses, the chances will still be random for each one, because it will be AI against AI, and no humans against AI where AI might have an upper hand because of its abilities to make quick calcuations and observe the behavior of the human players. So basically, the only thing that is going to change in the long run is that those human poker players who play for the love of the game will stop playing online poker, and there will only be AI players in the lobby.

We can't deny the fact that over time, AI will be found in every field, it can be used by both players and casinos to improve their gameplay or services, but when AI starts getting involved as a gambler in the online gaming industry, that is when the industry will start to lose its charm because we will basically just see AI bots playing against each other for their human owners or operators, and I wonder what fun would that bring for people using them, because as explained above, the chances will still be random, and it isn't that you are going to make money by using an AI since your AI will be competing with another person's AI, which means you will still be losing money the same way, and you won't even get to experience the thrill of gambling yourself.

[348Judah]

You keep having mixed reactions, as some will support the use of AI to enhance gamblers' experience when playing poker games, some will also give their own view to condemn the benefits and state one or two reasons why playing poker is no longer enjoyable due to the incidence of AI being introduced, but I know that gambling will remain, and we will still have the opportunity to play based on our own decision and preference for the game we want to play.

[Mia Chloe]

Behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

Just like I also expressed in another post here, AI may not necessarily be a big game changer. The major difference they could bring is less suspected randomisation because regular algorithms can appear repetitive sometimes. In that case the idea of introducing AI could just be to mimic humanoid moves.

This is mainly because at the end of the day AI is just a more complex algorithm of it's own with it's major difference being its ability to adapt and kinda learn unlike the normal algorithms we have today.

[mak013]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

In the end, AI will play against AI and win
I stopped playing online poker seriously once software became common. I can't calculate as well as a computer, I make mistakes, and I miss chances to win. Bluffing was the last way to beat those "software players." With an AI assistant, we lose that last chance. It doesn't matter to me, but for online poker it feels like the start of a new era in which casinos will fight against AI software.

[ColdLava40]

Just like I also expressed in another post here, AI may not necessarily be a big game changer. The major difference they could bring is less suspected randomisation because regular algorithms can appear repetitive sometimes. In that case the idea of introducing AI could just be to mimic humanoid moves.

This is mainly because at the end of the day AI is just a more complex algorithm of it's own with it's major difference being its ability to adapt and kinda learn unlike the normal algorithms we have today.

If eventually they are able to study players moves, the randomness would still be unique to each players.

The chances of having a consistent amount of win is still very little because Ai are juts going to stick to same pattern over and over again.

It may be a game changer in some ways but ideally the randomness would make it still much difficult to make a tangible amount of win.

[Smack That Ace]

And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.

Previously HUDs and static solver were primary tool for analysis but AI has now moved far beyond that stage. Model like Pluribus and Libratus have shown how game theory optimal strategy can outperform our decision. And today's modern AI bot don't just calculate static range. They use humanization layer to mimic human like fallibility and behavioral adaptation.

As AI advances, so do security algorithms of online poker platform. They are identifying botfarm and Real Time Assistance with server level machine learning, behavioral analytic, mouse tracking and biometric pattern analysis. So, online poker is not completely dead yet. But it has now turned into silent cold war between AI Developer & Platform Security.

[Mia Chloe]

If eventually they are able to study players moves, the randomness would still be unique to each players.
The chances of having a consistent amount of win is still very little because Ai are juts going to stick to same pattern over and over again.
It may be a game changer in some ways but ideally the randomness would make it still much difficult to make a tangible amount of win.

It's like an upside but to actual players it's gonna actually be a downside. If a casino makes promotions and adverts that push the idea that their poker games are filled with imaginary AI players then it could very well turn out bad for them. It's like telling people to enjoy playing with bots.

Personally I wouldn't continue to play on a casino if I see 90% of the time I'm constantly gaming with AI not actual people. To me it's not really worth it.

[Hispo]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

That is one of the things which has discouraged me from going back and play poker again online. There just too many people who are not even playing but running their own customized AI with the hope of getting money by doing nothing.

That is why I am very supportive of playing poker against people one can actually see, face to face, on the same table, with no chances of them being an AI.

Sadly, it is more difficult to get a table of real people nowadays than it is logging onto one's account and play against people around the world.

[alegotardo]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

Yes, I like to follow chess games with AIs, its surreal and I believe this is completely possible in poker too... there are both bots that play without human intervention and people who receive instructions from AI during matches.
But I do npt think poker will become a competition between humans and machines... I do not believe a machine is capable of predicting a bluff or other human feelings more easily than a person who is used to the game, or am I wrong?

Anyway, even so, I recognize that there are advantages, but in the same way that we have women’s and men’s sports categories, we can simply create others in which we separate machines from humans.

[fullfitlarry]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

And even before the advent of AI, there are numerous reports of online casinos "colluding" with the used of bots. But with AI now, it's hard to go against them head to head. And so we will all be at the disadvantage.

But if you play with live poker players, without the help of AI, except maybe what Astra has done talking to his colleagues at the stand, I think they have been barred from doing it until the game is finished. So yes, there could still be games being played without AI and with everyone cooperating and going back to old school of playing poker.

[Dogedegen]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

You can assume that this type of game is long over. People like to cheat for all kinds of reasons. They even cheat a lot in those online chess games, they open another game against an AI and imitate the moves to create the best responses to win. And now think that game is without any money involved so there is nothing to be gained financially, if people cheat a lot in that how they are going to behave in something where money is at stake or reputation. I know some years ago people were trying all kinds of things to join the same rooms if rooms had randomized assignments so that they could cheat together to help defeat the other players at the table. With bots, AI, and all other methods it is just a waste of time.

If you want to have fun but play a fair game, online poker is not the way to do it.