[RFC] æthereum: a turing-complete coin distributed as per bitcoin's blockchain

[smooth]

Note that if Ethereum had launched using the spin-off model, it would not be possible to potentially create a threatening clone.  Why do you think they chose not to do this?

Erm. Maybe because the spin-off tech isn't really out there. Yet.

That is most certainly not the reason since Ethereum won't be launching for several months anyway, and Stellar has already launched with a partial spin off. Try again.

Furthermore spin-offs have already been done using different techniques. For example Memorycoin 2.0 spun off from Protoshares

[YarkoL]

Note that if Ethereum had launched using the spin-off model, it would not be possible to potentially create a threatening clone.  Why do you think they chose not to do this?

Erm. Maybe because the spin-off tech isn't really out there. Yet.

That is most certainly not the reason since Ethereum won't be launching for several months anyway, and Stellar has already launched with a partial spin off. Try again.

Thanks but I'll pass. I haven't really followed Ethereum and I was
under impression they'd already begun fundraising. Anyway, that wasn't
the point of my post, it was to air one more time the annoyance I get
when spin-off tech is seen as means of aggression against altcoins. 

[smooth]

Thanks but I'll pass. I haven't really followed Ethereum and I was
under impression they'd already begun fundraising.

Yes of course they have been fundraising. Specifically because they are doing an IPO (on a vaporware coin) and not a spin-off, which was pretty much the point of this thread to begin with.

[Rampion]

This is the equivalent to Satoshi releasing the code and the very same day VISA comes, clones, implements, and fucks up the original creator, abusing its current market position.

C'mon, it's just common sense. Do we really need to explain why this is wrong?

It's not wrong if VISA (or whoever) respects the license under which Bitcoin is published (MIT).

Full license: http://opensource.org/licenses/MIT
Copying: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/COPYING

This is how open source works.

Anyhow, the guaranteed outcome of the VISA/Bitcoin example you've made is that people would prefer Satoshi's Bitcoin over VISA's clone, in fact I believe you've made the perfect example against your own argument.

Regarding your comment that spin-offs are shameless and parasitic, many people believe it's altcoins (especially those that are pre-mined and IPOed) that are parasitic and hurt cryptocurrency.  Spin-offs are cooperative in that all bitcoin holders are automatically piggybacked along with any new innovation.  

NO.

What you are proposing could kill the altcoin scams, but also legit projects like ethereum. By "git cloning" any project and just modifying few parameters you are becoming what you despise: A parasite.

Nonsense. Peter is trying to address a crucial issue which is the initial distribution of some alts. He's not parasiting anything, in fact he is trying to improve something that is not working well and that is creating many negative incentives in the ecosystem.

If the userbase of a cryptocurrency migrates en masse to a clone because it uses a bitcoin-blockchain-based distribution it just means that the market has decided that the distribution of the clone is better than the distribution of the original. That's just open source working at its best in a free market enviroment.

[rpietila]

+1 to the last sentence.

[smooth]

If the userbase of a cryptocurrency migrates en masse to a clone because it uses a bitcoin-blockchain-based distribution it just means that the market has decided that the distribution of the clone is better than the distribution of the original. That's just open source working at its best in a free market enviroment.

I'd add that if the market doesn't think the distribution of the clone is better than the distribution of the original, the userbase will not migrate en masse. Everyone stays right where they are and the clone is largely irrelevant. Either way it is a useful experiment.

[Momimaus]

Ethereum for sure, but we can´t say that until the IPO is over. Until then we have to spread FUD to keep people away from investing.

I think NXT and NEM have a chance to surpass Bitcoin too, but a lot of work has to be down, and it is not sure.

No other actual coin will surpass Bitcoin, but maybe a new one will come. How knows.

[CoinHoarder]

No I've not invested in Ether at all actually. I don't like the current business model but I might invest at a later stage depending.

I have looked at airdrops before and it's pretty unanimous so far that it just crushes the price and doesn't create user adoption. So I thought the Ethereum airdrop planned here was fine, just futile. Considering the proportion of miners involved in Bitcoin and the number of POW fanboys, trying to bootstrap an ethereum clone based on DPOS onto Bitcoin seemed even more implausible. I think it would just be free advertising for the real Ethereum. Just my opinion, you're entitled to yours.

I think this is a solid post and makes sense to me. I have always looked at Aethereum as a potential threat to Ethereum, but you have now convinced me I was wrong all along about it.

You are certainly correct that all "air drop" coins have been a huge failure thus far. There is no incentive to hold onto the coins and as soon as the are "air dropped" mass dumping ensues.

Ethereum will not suffer from that problem, as all Ethereum owners will have invested something of value to get their portion of Ether. This will provide a deterrent from all Ethereum owners dumping on the market for anything less than what they invested in it, which will uphold the value 1000x better than getting Aethereum for free will.

Just look at how hard all the air drop coins have failed, and how the free distribution Nxt clones have failed. It doesn't take much logical reasoning to deduce that that is what will happen to Aethereum too.

[smooth]

Just look at how hard all the air drop coins have failed, and how the free distribution Nxt clones have failed. It doesn't take much logical reasoning to deduce that that is what will happen to Aethereum too.

Logical reasoning is fine, but isn't logical reasoning followed by an experiment even better? Seeing whether the actual outcome agrees with the predicted outcome is enough of a reason to do it.

[CIYAM]

Logical reasoning is fine, but isn't logical reasoning followed by an experiment even better? Seeing whether the actual outcome agrees with the predicted outcome is enough of a reason to do it.

Agreed - Peter R has come up with a *useful test* so I think we should play with it and see where it takes us.

[CoinHoarder]

I agree with you guys that it should still be tested, as I very well could be wrong. Any good experiment should have some empirical evidence.

What I posted was just my hypothesis.

[thoughtfan]

There is no incentive to hold onto the coins and as soon as the are "air dropped" mass dumping ensues.

...

Just look at how hard all the air drop coins have failed, and how the free distribution Nxt clones have failed. It doesn't take much logical reasoning to deduce that that is what will happen to Aethereum too.

There is plenty of evidence of this occurring and may well occur in this instance.  However it's not like they're being dropped to a population of a country where most have little knowledge and see no promise in crypto.  Nor can they be claimed en-masse for the purpose of dumping by those currently with no stake in crypto.  The point is they'll be going to those who have a record of valuing crypto so the dump/hold/increase-holding decision is more likely I think to be taken according to the potential value seen in the technology of the spinoff, in this case Ethereum.

Ethereum will not suffer from that problem, as all Ethereum owners will have invested something of value to get their portion of Ether.

True there can not be in this instance a heap of people ready to dump immediately on launch given the money paid.

...This will provide a deterrent from all Ethereum owners dumping on the market for anything less than what they invested in it...

An initial deterrent maybe but given the IPO price was plucked out of thin air none of us has any idea which way the market is likely to go.

...which will uphold the value 1000x better than getting Aethereum for free will.

'uphold' is a tall order!  The Ether price may initially settle at a very different place from the IPO price and if that's a big fast drop and those who bought at IPO prices are seeing their investment drop away they're just as prone to panic selling as the next man.  Whether or not this happens, when it does initially settle, just like Aethereum, the price will move according to the longer term value seen in its technology.

My assessment is the case is by no means as closed as you imply.  Jury's out and in the meantime I'm really intrigued as to how this might pan out

[chufchuf]

No I've not invested in Ether at all actually. I don't like the current business model but I might invest at a later stage depending.

I have looked at airdrops before and it's pretty unanimous so far that it just crushes the price and doesn't create user adoption. So I thought the Ethereum airdrop planned here was fine, just futile. Considering the proportion of miners involved in Bitcoin and the number of POW fanboys, trying to bootstrap an ethereum clone based on DPOS onto Bitcoin seemed even more implausible. I think it would just be free advertising for the real Ethereum. Just my opinion, you're entitled to yours.

I think this is a solid post and makes sense to me. I have always looked at Aethereum as a potential threat to Ethereum, but you have now convinced me I was wrong all along about it.

You are certainly correct that all "air drop" coins have been a huge failure thus far. There is no incentive to hold onto the coins and as soon as the are "air dropped" mass dumping ensues.

Ethereum will not suffer from that problem, as all Ethereum owners will have invested something of value to get their portion of Ether. This will provide a deterrent from all Ethereum owners dumping on the market for anything less than what they invested in it, which will uphold the value 1000x better than getting Aethereum for free will.

Just look at how hard all the air drop coins have failed, and how the free distribution Nxt clones have failed. It doesn't take much logical reasoning to deduce that that is what will happen to Aethereum too.

The real air drops are the altcoins themselves when you think about it. The whole idea of bitcoin is that can be modified improved or changed. If aethereum dropped in price at an airdrop it would also drag the price of ethereum because everyone would get to see how the price deals with large trade volumes, but in ethereum you'd have a terrible distribution.

Where's that thread where Peter R is announcing a bounty for setting up aethereum?

[Adrian-x]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.0

There is a bounty to make tools to and setup a spin off alt.

[chufchuf]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.0

There is a bounty to make tools to and setup a spin off alt.

I thought there was an entire thread dedicated to the bounty but can't find it. did someone pick the job up?

[Adrian-x]

I thought there was an entire thread dedicated to the bounty but can't find it. did someone pick the job up?

there may be, I dont think its been claimed, I've offered 1BTC for a snapshot tool that meets Peter_R's specifications, I think the speck has almost been completed, there are other bounties, maybe PM Peter and ask him for the status.
 

 

[lyth0s]

How is the progress on this project? Any updates?

[superresistant]

How is the progress on this project? Any updates?

Follow the discussion here :
Spin-offs: bootstrap an altcoin with a btc-blockchain-based initial distribution
æthereum needs a bootstrap in order to be distributed.

[seriouscoin]

bump for anyone has not seen this thread.

[jokumat]

not much activity in this thread. Is this project still active?