mtgox criminal investigation?

[darsie]

Hi!

While mtgox/Mark doesn't talk much and IIRC just said the coins are "lost" or "temporarily unavailable" it is widely assumed that they have been stolen by hackers or embezzled. AFAIK there's just legal actions going on concerning mtgox' bankruptcy (protection). Why no criminal investigation and search for the coins? If there is a bank robbery or even a house burglary the police come and investigate. Why not with mtgox where insane amounts of value was lost? Did we just forget to report it to the police? Why don't we report it and they confiscate the servers and investigate, as they would in a case of child pornography ... instead of risking that  Mark or the hackers (if they still have access) wipe any traces.

Bernhard

[laflaflaf]

its ****it

[GreenDude]

I bet they have them.

[counter]

A very well put and valid question if you ask me.  This type of thing can't just be left to work it self out people need to put the pressure of these epic fudge ups and make them pay. 

[edmundedgar]

While mtgox/Mark doesn't talk much and IIRC just said the coins are "lost" or "temporarily unavailable" it is widely assumed that they have been stolen by hackers or embezzled. AFAIK there's just legal actions going on concerning mtgox' bankruptcy (protection). Why no criminal investigation and search for the coins? If there is a bank robbery or even a house burglary the police come and investigate. Why not with mtgox where insane amounts of value was lost? Did we just forget to report it to the police? Why don't we report it and they confiscate the servers and investigate, as they would in a case of child pornography ... instead of risking that  Mark or the hackers (if they still have access) wipe any traces.

I know some Tokyo residents have complained to the police, and there is a police investigation going on, separately from the bankruptcy proceeding.

From today's newspaper (Sankei Shinbun):
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20140417-00000505-san-soci

My translation (Warning - IANATranslator):

The bitcoin exchange Mt Gox has had its application for rehabilitation denied by the Tokyo District Court and seems likely to file for bankruptcy, but the police continue their investigation, both by analyzing data provided by the company and by gathering evidence from users who are claiming losses. However, they have not yet formed a full picture of what occurred.

In the data they presented to the police after their application for rehabilitation, Mt Gox said that their bitcoins were stolen through a system problem. The police are gathering evidence from Mark Karpeles and continue to analyse data.

A source close to the investigation said, "If this theft happened it may be a classifiable as a computer fraud, like theft of electronic money", but says that they have not yet confirmed that the theft really happened.

The investigation source claims Mt Gox did not even talk to them about losses amounting to 2,800,000,000‎ yen in cash, and says, "Not to have reported this is astonishing. I wonder if it was really stolen."

[Ivy-Team]

I bet they have them.

[Ivy-Team]

A source close to the investigation

[edmundedgar]

A source close to the investigation

The Japanese was "捜査関係者", literally "someone connected with the investigation". It's the standard way the Japanese media report off-the-record briefing.

[avemax]

 

I just heard about the law suit case: Greene v. MtGox Inc, U.S. District Court, Northern District of Illinois, No. 14-01437
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/illinois-man-files-class-action-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-exchange-mtgox/

I am wondering how to join the case..... I sold all the coins for USD on MtGox earlier and requested cash transaction around a month before MtGox collapsed. but none of the transactions happened, and according to their reply mail, the funds were "perfectly safe, just need a bit of time to do the wire transfer".

no idea if it makes any difference for USD cash funds from Bitcoins.

[bryant.coleman]

I just heard about the law suit case: Greene v. MtGox Inc, U.S. District Court, Northern District of Illinois, No. 14-01437
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/illinois-man-files-class-action-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-exchange-mtgox/

I am wondering how to join the case..... I sold all the coins for USD on MtGox earlier and requested cash transaction around a month before MtGox collapsed. but none of the transactions happened, and according to their reply mail, the funds were "perfectly safe, just need a bit of time to do the wire transfer".

no idea if it makes any difference for USD cash funds from Bitcoins.

As far as I know, all their assets have been frozen by the Japanese court. That includes the coins and the fiat reserves. But if the cash is with some bank (or with some intermediate service), then I think you'll receive it without much delay.

[OlliBrandt80]

what do you think will happen if we report it to the police? Nothing will change...

[bryant.coleman]

what do you think will happen if we report it to the police? Nothing will change...

About the pending payments? So you are going to make a complaint to the Japanese police? It will be of no use + you will have to bear the expenses for travelling to Japan and securing the visa.

[Oldminer]

What's the bet the fat fuck gets charged with ebezzlement?

[Nagle]

About the pending payments? So you are going to make a complaint to the Japanese police? It will be of no use + you will have to bear the expenses for travelling to Japan and securing the visa.

If you're in the US, you can report it to the US SEC, and copy the Tokyo Metropolitan Police. The more people who do this, the more attention the case will get.

[mktrader]

Not to mention that it's probably the biggest theft in recent recorded history! Half a billion dollars!

[Nagle]

Not to mention that it's probably the biggest theft in recent recorded history! Half a billion dollars!

The main reason that the Tokyo cops didn't get involved earlier was that nobody was filing complaints. Remember all those shills telling users to be patient with Gox's delays in payment? (Reread "Mt Gox Withdrawal Delays starting from last April.) It looks like nobody sued Gox or reported them to any regulatory agency before the bankruptcy.

We're seeing action now. Gox asked for "civil rehabilitation", which usually takes about two weeks to get and would leave Karpeles in charge with payments stalled. But the Tokyo court didn't fall for that.  They send in a supervisor to check up on Gox. After six weeks, the supervisor reports back to the court, and the court fires Karpeles and calls in the cops to investigate.

With Karpeles fired, the remaining employees now report to the provisional administrator, and soon to the court-appointed trustee. They will be telling the investigators all the dirt on Karpeles and Mt. Gox to avoid being prosecuted themselves. The administrator is bringing in outside technical experts and auditors. The cash and Bitcoins went somewhere. With full access to bank records and Mt. Gox records, they'll soon know where.

Reuters has been digging up more info. They just interviewed Karpeles' mommy. Quotes:

"He didn't go to university. He failed badly in his second-last year of high school and decided to quit. I told him that if he was going to do that he should become a plumber, so he got an electrician's diploma. Then one day, I saw him walking around with a huge book, called "PHP". He told me he had become a doctor in PHP," a computer programming language.
...
"(Mark's) communication at a personal level is catastrophic. It's always been difficult to get him to speak. We tried to get him to be more extrovert ... Sometimes I wonder whether it's not some kind of trauma linked to my mother. I had the same problem when I was younger."
...
"I don't understand (the fraud accusations). I would never say it's unthinkable, but Mark is my son, and my job as a mother is to do what I can for my son. That said, if genuinely there was dishonesty, I will not cover for him."
...
Asked about Karpeles' own admission in a 2006 blog post that he had two computer fraud-related convictions before he was 21, she said: "No, no, I don't think there was ever any conviction. I don't know. There are maybe things he hid from me."

[Nagle]

The Wall Street Journal has an article today. Behind their paywall, though.

"By January, dozens of angry customers were calling Mt. Gox's offices in Tokyo each day. Employees not used to dealing directly with customers tried to pass the phones off to each other, according to people familiar with Mt. Gox.

One of the people said that for some of this time in early 2014, the CEO sat in his office watching anime or episodes of "Breaking Bad," and complained he was gaining weight."

Former Mt. Gox employees are talking to the press. Karpeles can't do a thing to them now, but the Tokyo cops can.

[medialab101]

If not straight out theft then at least criminal negligence. Looking forward to the results of the investigation.

[bryant.coleman]

One of the people said that for some of this time in early 2014, the CEO sat in his office watching anime or episodes of "Breaking Bad," and complained he was gaining weight."[/i]

Hmmm... some shameless people still want to defend Mark Kerpeles. I lost count of the threads created here to support him. Anyway... I've heard that the Japanese justice system is quite efficient and quick. May be it will be a good thing to try Karpeles in Japan instead of the US. I fear that if the is sent to the US, he may be able to circumvent justice using his money power.

[freedombit]

Does anyone have any kind of proof that a police investigation is actually being conducted in Japan?