A sneak peak at the future of Bitcoin Cold Storage

[serenitys]

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/k8LqlMzEe-I/maxresdefault.jpg

Almost Human's version. Before I really knew what bitcoin was, I saw this episode where they used this device, scanned it and were able to see how much bitcoin the owner had in his account.

 

[foggyb]

But it's not for everyone. So lets see. Maybe down the line I'll make a more affordable version if it's possible.

It doesn't need to be cheap. This device, in my mind, is for people storing more wealth than they can afford to lose.

In that light, a price range of $100-$200 each would seem reasonable from my perspective. Is that in the ballpark of what you were thinking of?

[sosulon]

Have you thought of mass producing it when it is ready ?

[crazy_rabbit]

Have you thought of mass producing it when it is ready ?

I'm not sure if I will go the "all-out" mass production route when it's ready. Mass production would reduce the non-counterfeitable properties of the devices by making the manufacturing process a little bit too similar between units. There will always be small differences that could be used to tell your device apart, but it's important that they aren't TOO small to be clearly noticed. In the current design there is a manufacturing 'flaw' that works as non-forgable fingerprint of each device. Mass production would all but eliminate this.

Also, I'm not sure if I want to go that route anyway. I work in the luxury sector for my day job as is, and there are a lot of exciting touches you can add to things in a bespoke way. But lets see!

[vnvizow]

Does it have a tracker function? It would suck if someone loses it, I've lost my wallets before (actual wallets)

[crazy_rabbit]

Does it have a tracker function? It would suck if someone loses it, I've lost my wallets before (actual wallets)

No it does not. But I don't think someone would really want something like that. If you can track it, (a la iphone "find my phone") then the government/hackers/anyone could track it. Rich people don't exactly put their gold in a box and then transmit it's location so it's easy to find. Even if it is stored in a bank, they still keep that information secret.

One of the purposes behind this device is privacy. You store your own bitcoin, yourself. It simplifies this process, but it lets you have control over it. You don't have to trust anyone else to use it.

[vnvizow]

Does it have a tracker function? It would suck if someone loses it, I've lost my wallets before (actual wallets)

No it does not. But I don't think someone would really want something like that. If you can track it, (a la iphone "find my phone") then the government/hackers/anyone could track it. Rich people don't exactly put their gold in a box and then transmit it's location so it's easy to find. Even if it is stored in a bank, they still keep that information secret.

One of the purposes behind this device is privacy. You store your own bitcoin, yourself. It simplifies this process, but it lets you have control over it. You don't have to trust anyone else to use it.

Well this is a physical storage, it can be lost, broken, or stolen, but I guess that will be the owner's worries

[crazy_rabbit]

Does it have a tracker function? It would suck if someone loses it, I've lost my wallets before (actual wallets)

No it does not. But I don't think someone would really want something like that. If you can track it, (a la iphone "find my phone") then the government/hackers/anyone could track it. Rich people don't exactly put their gold in a box and then transmit it's location so it's easy to find. Even if it is stored in a bank, they still keep that information secret.

One of the purposes behind this device is privacy. You store your own bitcoin, yourself. It simplifies this process, but it lets you have control over it. You don't have to trust anyone else to use it.

Well this is a physical storage, it can be lost, broken, or stolen, but I guess that will be the owner's worries

Indeed it can, although it should be used with multi-sig meaning that you can spread access to your bitcoin across as many devices as you think is feasible to protect, thus protecting you from breaking, losing or having a device stolen. If it's 2 of 3 for example- you can keep one at home, one in a safe deposit box and one with a lawyer. In the event you die in a house fire (lets hope not) your lawyer could still ask the court to open your safe deposit box, and with his own device, get access to your bitcoin to distribute to your estate.

The device really isn't intended in this incarnation to be something you carry around with you or trade with friends. Maybe a future device, but this one is for long term planning.

[vapourminer]

Im really liking this. no one will casually toss it out when going through ones estate.

reminds be of the data storage crystals from babylon 5.

a question, and probably a stupid one at that. its one time use and user programmable (right?) and one is not able to check the key without destroying it.  so when programming it is there a checksum or md5 or whatever to verify it took the key? sure would suck to transfer a fortune to it and have it wrong.

[crazy_rabbit]

Im really liking this. no one will casually toss it out when going through ones estate.

reminds be of the data storage crystals from babylon 5.

a question, and probably a stupid one at that. its one time use and user programmable (right?) and one is not able to check the key without destroying it.  so when programming it is there a checksum or md5 or whatever to verify it took the key? sure would suck to transfer a fortune to it and have it wrong.

Thanks!

I'm working on the software, which is turning out to be the hardest part. Indeed I'm thinking to maybe approach other people about integrating it into their products, as software dev isn't my strong point and I need to outsource it. Otherwise perhaps I will seek some sort of investment to handle this part. The tech inside is standard NFC so theoretically you could buy one and repurpose it for anything.

Something I had thought about was an "escape transaction": something like a transaction you pre sign in advance that transfers everything to another address in event something goes wrong. These devices are storing your private keys only, so theoretically you could sign a transaction to another address, an address that does not yet exist on the blockchain for example, and keep track of that private key separately. The escape transaction is worthless without having the receiving private key so it could be kept around in a less secure environment, (or encrypted online) as a fail-safe. Not sure yet.

I'm looking forward to see what people think about it!

[Tirapon]

This looks really cool 

Great work!

[OROBTC]

...

@ crazy_rabbit

Your device looks like it will fill a hole in BTC storage options.  Good luck!  Once you are in reliable production, keep us informed!

I like very much your idea of EMP-proof packaging.  Make your device very tough too!

[crazy_rabbit]

I saw a little bit of chatter on IRC about the device and wanted to clarify something- It is not made from plastic, it is made from glass. :-)

[rocks]

To me the primary attribute for cold storage is durability.

If I print out a deterministic wallet seed key on multiple copies of acid free paper and laminate and store them, this is guaranteed to last centuries (with the exception of theft or destruction). If there is a problem with one copy, others exist. If there are problems with all copies, advanced methods exist to read old paper and extract the information.

So how durable are these things? Do they rely on physical hardware chips? Hardware fails all the time. Additionally are there multiple storage elements inside in case one or more components fail? If all hardware components fail, how can you extract the keys?

My point is cold storage needs to be durable and remove any central points of failure. Without this there is a lot of risk. With paper backups risks are much lower. (Yes there is theft and fire, but these issues exist for this device as well)

[LiteCoinGuy]

looks stylish!  

[niner]

Whether there's bitcoin in them or not, everybody is going to want one of these!

[dogechode]

Ok so... in 3 brief sentences or less, can someone explain how this works?

[kthejung]

Whether there's bitcoin in them or not, everybody is going to want one of these!

It also doubles as a dildo.

[crazy_rabbit]

To me the primary attribute for cold storage is durability.

If I print out a deterministic wallet seed key on multiple copies of acid free paper and laminate and store them, this is guaranteed to last centuries (with the exception of theft or destruction). If there is a problem with one copy, others exist. If there are problems with all copies, advanced methods exist to read old paper and extract the information.

So how durable are these things? Do they rely on physical hardware chips? Hardware fails all the time. Additionally are there multiple storage elements inside in case one or more components fail? If all hardware components fail, how can you extract the keys?

My point is cold storage needs to be durable and remove any central points of failure. Without this there is a lot of risk. With paper backups risks are much lower. (Yes there is theft and fire, but these issues exist for this device as well)

All valid points- this device is based off NFC technology which is quite durable. That said however, the idea is to use them in multiples where each one holds the key to one of the private keys required of some m-of-n Multisig transaction. So in this case you can plan for the possibility of failure: a possibility that does exist for paper as well (fire, etc....). The method of failure may be different, but statistically, it's still failure.

 The Multiple storage elements in each case is a good idea though, and should be technically possibly with the newer NFC chips. That would increase reliability although one has to consider what the percent of failure would be related to just the hardware failing versus the whole device being somehow compromised/destroyed/lost/etc....

I don't have anything against paper backups, I think they are a smart and reliable way of storing your bitcoin. That said, I think paper backups have some human disadvantageous that can in themselves lead to loss of bitcoins unintentionally. For one- it's going to be very hard to protect your acid free paper from prying eyes. Even if you put it into a bank vault it will be hard to be sure no one has seen your private keys. Paper wallets have no system to guarantee the integrity of their 'secrets'. Sure you could do things like sign over the envelope opening or use a hologram/wax seal, but these are all pretty easy to defeat in terms of security measures. Additionally, it's going to be very hard to be sure, when you do go to redeem your bitcoins, that you are actually redeeming your original paper wallet, and that it hasn't been swapped out for a decoy at some interim point. An attacker could swap out your encrypted paper wallet for a decoy with some small error in the private key, trick you into attempting to redeem your keys (and observe you entering your password- or even more sneakly, set themselves up to be the person you ask to 'try it themselves' while you freak out that it's not working) take your password and redeem the real copy of the backup.

I've got lots of scenarios like that in my head. :-)

Additionally, paper wallets don't particularly look valuable to non-bitcoin people. I've had paper wallets accidentally thrown out because they looked like trash. A really well done paper wallet should ideally just be a sheet of paper filled with seemingly random characters. That looks like trash to most people, and could get your fortune shredded or trashed without much of a second though. I'm not sure about your bank, but at one of mine, the safe deposit box I have has insurance stipulations attached. This device could help to develop an insurance condition regarding when they consider that your deposit box has been compromised. It's not insignificant that the device is virtually impossible to counterfeit. If your device is intact, in one piece, then you know it's secure. The NFC technology has its own layers of security- you can check to see exactly how many times the device has been scanned. So if your device is in one piece, if it's scan counter is unchanged, if the authenticity stamp inside the chip is correct, then you know with pretty high certainty that your device is still secure. It's hard to say that of a piece of laminated paper.

This device is not only durable in terms of hardware (not as durable as paper, but you have to compensate for that with numbers) but it's also durable itself. It's glass, designed to break when you really intend to break it (IE: with a hammer or something) and looks valuable in-and-of-itself, meaning people are highly unlikely to trash if they just stumble across it. Despite the fact that it has a somewhat familiar "shape" to some people, the device looks unlike anything probably anyone has in their normal life. Meaning it will stand out in any situation.

My device is not a Trezor, offline signing wallet, or piece of paper. It's a device that is intended for a small segment of bitcoiners who would like to add a durable, secure and luxurious addition to their security planning. It looks *really* good. You buy three, keep one at home, one with your lawyer and one in a safe deposit box. Or buy five, and put them on all the continents. If you are paranoid about device failure- you presign a transaction to an escape address and then protect the priv-key of that transaction and escape address in some different fashion. If the device fails, you broadcast the transaction, and the bitcoins move onto your escape address. Of course, the more complicated your security procedure, the more prone to error it might be, but it's doable. Indeed you could encrypt the presigned transaction with the serial from inside the device, meaning you only need the physical remains of the device (not the NFC chip) to decrypt the presigned transaction. This way you keep all your 'secrets' with the devices and need only keep track of them.

[crazy_rabbit]

Whether there's bitcoin in them or not, everybody is going to want one of these!

It also doubles as a dildo.

Hahaha. Unintentional similarity, although it is solid glass, and thus easy to sterilise, and I suppose there are a few nasty borders you could cross with this hidden........

Not that I'm advocating anything.  

EDIT: Try that with your paper wallet.