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randomguy7
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January 06, 2012, 12:15:02 AM
 #61

Hm Crypt_Current are you sure net value must stay above 2 x maintenance? Why x2?
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January 06, 2012, 12:16:19 AM
 #62

Hm Crypt_Current are you sure net value must stay above 2 x maintenance? Why x2?

If you're using 5x leverage, yes.  it can drop further if you use less leverage.
Why is I don't know; that's just the rules that Zhoutong programmed into his awesome algorithm.

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January 06, 2012, 12:18:16 AM
 #63

Hm Crypt_Current are you sure net value must stay above 2 x maintenance? Why x2?

If you're using 5x leverage, yes.  it can drop further if you use less leverage.
Why is I don't know; that's just the rules that Zhoutong programmed into his awesome algorithm.

BTW, also if you look at the "Settings" page in Bitcoinica, where you select your leverage, it will show you max tolerated loss as a percentage for each leverage.

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January 06, 2012, 12:23:26 AM
 #64

Hm Crypt_Current are you sure net value must stay above 2 x maintenance? Why x2?

If you're using 5x leverage, yes.  it can drop further if you use less leverage.
Why is I don't know; that's just the rules that Zhoutong programmed into his awesome algorithm.

BTW, also if you look at the "Settings" page in Bitcoinica, where you select your leverage, it will show you max tolerated loss as a percentage for each leverage.

... aaaaaaaaand after doing some further calculations, 16% (max tolerated loss for 5x margin) works out to be far less loss than would occur to bring net value down to 2x maintenance.  In my case, anyway... but I am using a margin of BTC and USD.  Maybe there's something I'm not taking into account.
All I know for sure, is that before the other leverage options were added, 5x was the only option, and the rule was forced liquidation when net value falls below 2x maintenance.  Maybe Zhoutong can address this; tell us if anything has changed since the new leverage options were added.

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January 06, 2012, 12:31:48 AM
 #65

Hm Crypt_Current are you sure net value must stay above 2 x maintenance? Why x2?

If you're using 5x leverage, yes.  it can drop further if you use less leverage.
Why is I don't know; that's just the rules that Zhoutong programmed into his awesome algorithm.

BTW, also if you look at the "Settings" page in Bitcoinica, where you select your leverage, it will show you max tolerated loss as a percentage for each leverage.

... aaaaaaaaand after doing some further calculations, 16% (max tolerated loss for 5x margin) works out to be far less loss than would occur to bring net value down to 2x maintenance.  In my case, anyway... but I am using a margin of BTC and USD.  Maybe there's something I'm not taking into account.
All I know for sure, is that before the other leverage options were added, 5x was the only option, and the rule was forced liquidation when net value falls below 2x maintenance.  Maybe Zhoutong can address this; tell us if anything has changed since the new leverage options were added.

Hm still doesn't make sense to me. I redid my calculation assuming net profit must stay above 1x maintenance and it says proudhon gets liquidated at a move below $5.24824.

Wanna bet for 1 BTC? If we're both wrong, both could pay 0.5 BTC to the bitcoin faucet.
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January 06, 2012, 12:34:04 AM
 #66

Hm Crypt_Current are you sure net value must stay above 2 x maintenance? Why x2?

If you're using 5x leverage, yes.  it can drop further if you use less leverage.
Why is I don't know; that's just the rules that Zhoutong programmed into his awesome algorithm.

BTW, also if you look at the "Settings" page in Bitcoinica, where you select your leverage, it will show you max tolerated loss as a percentage for each leverage.

... aaaaaaaaand after doing some further calculations, 16% (max tolerated loss for 5x margin) works out to be far less loss than would occur to bring net value down to 2x maintenance.  In my case, anyway... but I am using a margin of BTC and USD.  Maybe there's something I'm not taking into account.
All I know for sure, is that before the other leverage options were added, 5x was the only option, and the rule was forced liquidation when net value falls below 2x maintenance.  Maybe Zhoutong can address this; tell us if anything has changed since the new leverage options were added.

Hm still doesn't make sense to me. I redid my calculation assuming net profit must stay above 1x maintenance and it says proudhon gets liquidated at a move below $5.24824.

Wanna bet for 1 BTC? If we're both wrong, both could pay 0.5 BTC to the bitcoin faucet.

Nah, I don't wanna bet, because I think you're right.  :-D  I think I was just used to the old rules and the new rules for loss tolerance are more strict.
No wonder that spike down last week forced a liquidation of my position at the time... 16% loss is apparently less than netv-2xMaint.  Ah well, live & learn.  :-D

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January 06, 2012, 12:35:37 AM
 #67

Hm Crypt_Current are you sure net value must stay above 2 x maintenance? Why x2?

If you're using 5x leverage, yes.  it can drop further if you use less leverage.
Why is I don't know; that's just the rules that Zhoutong programmed into his awesome algorithm.

BTW, also if you look at the "Settings" page in Bitcoinica, where you select your leverage, it will show you max tolerated loss as a percentage for each leverage.

... aaaaaaaaand after doing some further calculations, 16% (max tolerated loss for 5x margin) works out to be far less loss than would occur to bring net value down to 2x maintenance.  In my case, anyway... but I am using a margin of BTC and USD.  Maybe there's something I'm not taking into account.
All I know for sure, is that before the other leverage options were added, 5x was the only option, and the rule was forced liquidation when net value falls below 2x maintenance.  Maybe Zhoutong can address this; tell us if anything has changed since the new leverage options were added.

Hm still doesn't make sense to me. I redid my calculation assuming net profit must stay above 1x maintenance and it says proudhon gets liquidated at a move below $5.24824.

Wanna bet for 1 BTC? If we're both wrong, both could pay 0.5 BTC to the bitcoin faucet.

BUT... even with the corrected bottom threshold of $5.24, my advice to Proudhon is to keep on holdin.  That's what I'd do.  And I'd watch it.  Boy oh boy, the sleep I have lost in the past couple months.  If it looks like we're droppin fast, plug some more funds into your margin.

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Crypt_Current
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January 06, 2012, 12:39:08 AM
 #68

LAWLZ, i think i just figured something out.  The percentage P/L is percentage of your TRADABLE balance, not just your margin.  Whew.  So we have much more leeway than I thought.  And that force liquidation I suffered from last week must then be due to lack of diligence on my part (had to sleep) as I had originally thought.

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randomguy7
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January 06, 2012, 12:43:42 AM
 #69

Hm Crypt_Current are you sure net value must stay above 2 x maintenance? Why x2?

If you're using 5x leverage, yes.  it can drop further if you use less leverage.
Why is I don't know; that's just the rules that Zhoutong programmed into his awesome algorithm.

BTW, also if you look at the "Settings" page in Bitcoinica, where you select your leverage, it will show you max tolerated loss as a percentage for each leverage.

... aaaaaaaaand after doing some further calculations, 16% (max tolerated loss for 5x margin) works out to be far less loss than would occur to bring net value down to 2x maintenance.  In my case, anyway... but I am using a margin of BTC and USD.  Maybe there's something I'm not taking into account.
All I know for sure, is that before the other leverage options were added, 5x was the only option, and the rule was forced liquidation when net value falls below 2x maintenance.  Maybe Zhoutong can address this; tell us if anything has changed since the new leverage options were added.

Hm still doesn't make sense to me. I redid my calculation assuming net profit must stay above 1x maintenance and it says proudhon gets liquidated at a move below $5.24824.

Wanna bet for 1 BTC? If we're both wrong, both could pay 0.5 BTC to the bitcoin faucet.

Nah, I don't wanna bet, because I think you're right.  :-D  I think I was just used to the old rules and the new rules for loss tolerance are more strict.
No wonder that spike down last week forced a liquidation of my position at the time... 16% loss is apparently less than netv-2xMaint.  Ah well, live & learn.  :-D

Well it also depends on if your account is funded with usd or btc. If you have only btc and are long, a dropping price will screw you much faster.
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January 06, 2012, 12:47:47 AM
 #70

Hm Crypt_Current are you sure net value must stay above 2 x maintenance? Why x2?

If you're using 5x leverage, yes.  it can drop further if you use less leverage.
Why is I don't know; that's just the rules that Zhoutong programmed into his awesome algorithm.

BTW, also if you look at the "Settings" page in Bitcoinica, where you select your leverage, it will show you max tolerated loss as a percentage for each leverage.

... aaaaaaaaand after doing some further calculations, 16% (max tolerated loss for 5x margin) works out to be far less loss than would occur to bring net value down to 2x maintenance.  In my case, anyway... but I am using a margin of BTC and USD.  Maybe there's something I'm not taking into account.
All I know for sure, is that before the other leverage options were added, 5x was the only option, and the rule was forced liquidation when net value falls below 2x maintenance.  Maybe Zhoutong can address this; tell us if anything has changed since the new leverage options were added.

Hm still doesn't make sense to me. I redid my calculation assuming net profit must stay above 1x maintenance and it says proudhon gets liquidated at a move below $5.24824.

Wanna bet for 1 BTC? If we're both wrong, both could pay 0.5 BTC to the bitcoin faucet.

Nah, I don't wanna bet, because I think you're right.  :-D  I think I was just used to the old rules and the new rules for loss tolerance are more strict.
No wonder that spike down last week forced a liquidation of my position at the time... 16% loss is apparently less than netv-2xMaint.  Ah well, live & learn.  :-D

Well it also depends on if your account is funded with usd or btc. If you have only btc and are long, a dropping price will screw you much faster.

this is what i meant when i said its like a mini derivatives tower.
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January 06, 2012, 03:10:01 AM
 #71


I started with $60 yesterday.

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January 06, 2012, 06:25:04 AM
 #72

wtf is this 14k volume

A nice quiet buy.

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January 06, 2012, 06:27:16 AM
 #73

f**k i cant sleep


yes forced liquidation are based on account not position

I can't sleep either :-D
What do you mean "based on account not position"?

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January 06, 2012, 07:02:17 AM
 #74

Here is my current position:


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January 06, 2012, 07:07:01 AM
 #75

Here is my current position:



ONLY 16% pfffffftttttttt  Roll Eyes

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January 06, 2012, 07:12:30 AM
 #76

Here is my current position:



ONLY 16% pfffffftttttttt  Roll Eyes

Yeah I know, right? Tongue The experienced trader in me says to take profit now, but at the same time something tells me Bitcoin is not the same as anything I've ever traded before. Tongue

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January 06, 2012, 07:16:07 AM
 #77

Should have listened to the experienced trader in me... Somebody just dumped a truckload of bitcoins lol.

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January 06, 2012, 02:19:50 PM
 #78



What decided the price at which that trade was executed?

Stan?! STAN?!?!
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January 06, 2012, 02:31:40 PM
 #79



What decided the price at which that trade was executed?

As I understand it:
The buy order was entered into the queue when Bitcoinica's buy hit 6.8010. It then became a market order, but wasn't executed immediately on Mt. Gox due to a number of delays in the system. Probably the spike down to 6.8010 and below was quite steep, so by the time the buy actually went through, the price on Gox had fallen further.

You got lucky in other words. It could have gone the other way, too, and the spike might have only just touched 6.8, leaving your order unexecuted

Someone correct me if I got this wrong...

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January 06, 2012, 04:39:18 PM
 #80

I trying out bitcoinica with a bit of money I'm willing to loose for the entertainment value.

The market moved in my favour for five or ten minutes. The spread on bitcoinica widened to $0.4 so the profit available to me was not as much as I expected. I could leave a limit order on bitcoinica and have the mtgox price swing 5% or more past it and not get my order executed.
It's an extra risk I wasn't totally aware of.

Bitcoinica is badly documented. For example I can't find any official explanation of the * that sometimes appears next to buy or sell when the market moves.
Seems to mean no liquidity, you won't get an order executed right this moment?

Bitcoinica does not full details of company registration or office address. The domain uses a whois privacy service. It is possible they could just dissapear.

I think I am playing with fire. It's fun but if I'm drunk, tired or impetuous I'm going to get burned.

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