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Author Topic: I didn't pay capital gains tax on bitcoin sales to IRS today  (Read 24012 times)
bryant.coleman
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April 16, 2014, 03:02:13 AM
 #21

You don't have a bank account.  That means that you probably don't have a house, or a credit card, direct deposit, or children, or any of the other things that are part of normal life.  You are basically a monk of a pseudo-religion.  Your experience is so far from our own that any advice that you might have is likely to be useless or even dangerous to us.

Monks cannot provide a good example to the rest of us, because if we all lived like monks there would be no families and thus no future.  All purely monastic societies die sooner or later.

lol... that was classic. Strictly IMO, we are forced to depend upon the bankers, at least until Bitcoin gets more popular. Boycotting banks now will do no good for us, other than causing inconveniences.
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cryptoanarchist (OP)
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April 16, 2014, 03:09:45 AM
Last edit: April 17, 2014, 12:26:00 AM by cryptoanarchist
 #22

A cryptoanarchist bitcoiner with a bank account?

Blasphemy!

The only place I keep fiat is in my wallet. Banks are for suckers.

You don't have a bank account.  That means that you probably don't have a house, or a credit card, direct deposit, or children, or any of the other things that are part of normal life.  You are basically a monk of a pseudo-religion.  Your experience is so far from our own that any advice that you might have is likely to be useless or even dangerous to us.

Monks cannot provide a good example to the rest of us, because if we all lived like monks there would be no families and thus no future.  All purely monastic societies die sooner or later.

lol

I'm grumpy!!
Maged
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April 16, 2014, 03:27:55 AM
 #23

They likely only declared bitcoin taxable so they can get a cut of the silkroad auction.
Huh? It's always been taxable, we were just uncertain as to how. Now that uncertainty is gone.

cryptoanarchist (OP)
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April 16, 2014, 03:39:45 AM
 #24

They likely only declared bitcoin taxable so they can get a cut of the silkroad auction.
Huh? It's always been taxable, we were just uncertain as to how. Now that uncertainty is gone.

Not sure what you mean by "It's always been taxable". If you mean the IRS will always want to steal, then I'd agree. If you mean that they were always owed, then you're wrong. If you mean they've always been able to collect, then this thread proves that wrong.

I'm grumpy!!
Maged
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April 16, 2014, 03:54:55 AM
 #25

If you mean that they were always owed, then you're wrong.
No, I'm not. Had you actually talked with a tax professional prior to the IRS guidance (which, given the nature of this thread, you hadn't), you would have known that taxes were always owed on realized gains from bitcoin. Again, it was just unclear whether bitcoins were either currency or property.

Bit_Happy
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April 16, 2014, 04:04:46 AM
 #26

If you mean that they were always owed, then you're wrong.
No, I'm not. Had you actually talked with a tax professional prior to the IRS guidance (which, given the nature of this thread, you hadn't), you would have known that taxes were always owed on realized gains from bitcoin. Again, it was just unclear whether bitcoins were either currency or property.

Of course, when you take a profit in fiat you owe taxes.
Any other approach is dangerously illegal.

Honeypot
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April 16, 2014, 05:00:38 AM
 #27

OP, if IRS decides to audit your fiat transaction history, then you are going to give some answers. You will be subpoenaed and so will the forum histories, your bank account services, etc.

Tax evasion is a serious crime. Bitcoin sales to fiat is taxable. One serious audit and your ass is goin to the big house for few years at least. Not to mention now you left a digital confession, then you are truly digging your own grave. The 'beyond shadow of doubt' isn't as foolproof as you think it is once you are actually in the courtrooom.

Too late for regrets now. Just pray you don't get audited. It's remarkably easy to track someone's irregularities if they look. Whether you are or aren't a big enough fish is irrelevant if they decide to audit you - you are leaving it all up to chance and have no control over it.
bryant.coleman
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April 16, 2014, 05:29:37 AM
 #28

OP, if IRS decides to audit your fiat transaction history, then you are going to give some answers. You will be subpoenaed and so will the forum histories, your bank account services, etc.

May be he is dealing with 100% cash, through localbitcoins. But remember the recent court case against two Bitcoiners who used cash for Bitcoin deals in Florida (Pascal Reid and Michell Espinoza).
mktrader
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April 16, 2014, 05:50:04 AM
 #29

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

Even if they are able to identify him, how will they prove he owns how many Bitcoins?

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Bit_Happy
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April 16, 2014, 05:53:25 AM
 #30

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

Even if they are able to identify him, how will they prove he owns how many Bitcoins?

We don't know how much they know, so...
They might know a lot more than you think.  Shocked

Searing
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April 16, 2014, 05:56:07 AM
 #31

The last couple months there have been a lot of posts concerning the IRS ruling that bitcoins are to be treated as property and that it was required to pay a capital gains tax on the sale of bitcoins. Some people even posted that "bitcoin is doomed" because of the ruling.

To prove just how silly it is for people to worry about this, I created this thread to call out the IRS to prove what I owe in capital gains due to bitcoin sales.

So if there are any IRS employees trolling this thread, you're welcome to pour over the blockchain and tell me what I owe you.  Wink




well i'm glad i paid the IRS.....on 16k profit on miing with equip purchases..home office new business credit (immediate 50% off equip startup costs..hey i'm a farmer) etc etc
that tax lady almost got all of the 4k i should have spent ...i only  spent 550 extra bucks..

as the tax lady said i be a 'farmer' the gov't can't say that they will take 25% of gross income from me being a miner...and only way to pay that is to "mine" and
not have me be able to take off all this equip/home office/etc etc on my taxes

ie they can't have both ways if that is the only way i can make the 'gross income' they are taxing at 25%....so as a business
if next year it all tanks i can write it all off not just the 3k personal capital gains taxes per year....i expected but all of it

on 16k i paid 550 bucks back from the 2200 on my prev refund (amended my taxes)

so 1 yr and 1 day from Oct when i started mining i can cash out what i wish with only the 20% capital gains to worry about and be IRS friendly

and yes i assume the IRS rules will last till this DEC 2014 due to the Nov elections nothing will get passed (at best) till dec 2014 at the best imho

main point of being legal...my current bank (which screwed up my 2 wire xfers to knc so badly it took a month) just sent me a letter that they find it
suspicious that i did so many wire xfers (i did not it was the bank trying to fix it) ...if the bank i do stuff with can't even tell another branch of the bank
that they are the ones initiating wire xfers over 10k well....due to duplicate efforts to get them thru...well....any wire xfer you have done will
probably result in the same form letter i got asking 'wtf did you wire xfer $$$ to sseden and then anther from sweden come from ..ie prove you are not
a drug dealer kinda paper trail process ....whats a guy going to do....

so people that did an over 10k international wire xfer for your purchase in Sweden by knc ..expect a letter from your bank asking what it was used for
and if you got the 10k back from sweden expect another letter and if you cashed the $$$ out to move to another bank (in my case)
expect a 3rd letter ..fun fun...but i got to assume if they don't know enough to even look at my account on their bank and see that i paid and refunded on my statements..then I'm
fairly sure they have already 'posted" this off to the powers that be .....in case i'm a drug lord

so anyway i expect a lot of folk who did not pay taxes on their bitcoin this year are gonna be shocked when contacted by bank and then IRS
on what this 10k to sweden went for (also the 10k back if refunded i got both questions  asked of me) ie explain your paper trail on bitcoin
equip purchases and why you  reported no profit on such to the IRS..

i knew being paranoid would save my butt someday gonna be real interesting but mysefl all is legal as crap according to cpa lady...

me....i'm legal ....golden...new business.....and they can't touch me...went thru my cpa all legal...but not a lot of incentive to mine BTC this year at equip options/prices

I'd be freaking now if i would have gotten these form letters from the bank if I'd NOT paid my taxes ...I'd have been so scewed is likely

anyway maybe i just have bad luck but them 10k wire xfers hither and yon ..always bugged me at over 10k each or same bell goes off for refund imho

seems being chicken and doing btc 'legit' just saved me a lot of grief

results may vary this is just me and a lot of the perks was new home business writeoffs and persks


Searing

Old Style Legacy Plug & Play BBS System. Get it from www.synchro.net. Updated 1/1/2021. It also works with Windows 10 and likely 11 and allows 16 bit DOS game doors on the same Win 10 Machine in Multi-Node! Five Minute Install! Look it over it uninstalls just as fast, if you simply want to look it over. Freeware! Full BBS System! It is a frigging hoot!:)
Bit_Happy
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April 16, 2014, 06:02:43 AM
 #32

The last couple months there have been a lot of posts concerning the IRS ruling that bitcoins are to be treated as property and that it was required to pay a capital gains tax on the sale of bitcoins. Some people even posted that "bitcoin is doomed" because of the ruling.

To prove just how silly it is for people to worry about this, I created this thread to call out the IRS to prove what I owe in capital gains due to bitcoin sales.

So if there are any IRS employees trolling this thread, you're welcome to pour over the blockchain and tell me what I owe you.  Wink




well i'm glad i paid the IRS.....on 16k profit on miing with equip purchases..home office new business credit (immediate 50% off equip startup costs..hey i'm a farmer) etc etc
that tax lady almost got all of the 4k i should have spent ...i only  spent 550 extra bucks..

as the tax lady said i be a 'farmer' the gov't can't say that they will take 25% of gross income from me being a miner...and only way to pay that is to "mine" and
not have me be able to take off all this equip/home office/etc etc on my taxes

ie they can't have both ways if that is the only way i can make the 'gross income' they are taxing at 25%....so as a business
if next year it all tanks i can write it all off not just the 3k personal capital gains taxes per year....i expected but all of it

on 16k i paid 550 bucks back from the 2200 on my prev refund (amended my taxes)

so 1 yr and 1 day from Oct when i started mining i can cash out what i wish with only the 20% capital gains to worry about and be IRS friendly

and yes i assume the IRS rules will last till this DEC 2014 due to the Nov elections nothing will get passed (at best) till dec 2014 at the best imho

main point of being legal...my current bank (which screwed up my 2 wire xfers to knc so badly it took a month) just sent me a letter that they find it
suspicious that i did so many wire xfers (i did not it was the bank trying to fix it) ...if the bank i do stuff with can't even tell another branch of the bank
that they are the ones initiating wire xfers over 10k well....due to duplicate efforts to get them thru...well....any wire xfer you have done will
probably result in the same form letter i got asking 'wtf did you wire xfer $$$ to sseden and then anther from sweden come from ..ie prove you are not
a drug dealer kinda paper trail process ....whats a guy going to do....

so people that did an over 10k international wire xfer for your purchase in Sweden by knc ..expect a letter from your bank asking what it was used for
and if you got the 10k back from sweden expect another letter and if you cashed the $$$ out to move to another bank (in my case)
expect a 3rd letter ..fun fun...but i got to assume if they don't know enough to even look at my account on their bank and see that i paid and refunded on my statements..then I'm
fairly sure they have already 'posted" this off to the powers that be .....in case i'm a drug lord

so anyway i expect a lot of folk who did not pay taxes on their bitcoin this year are gonna be shocked when contacted by bank and then IRS
on what this 10k to sweden went for (also the 10k back if refunded i got both questions  asked of me) ie explain your paper trail on bitcoin
equip purchases and why you  reported no profit on such to the IRS..

i knew being paranoid would save my butt someday gonna be real interesting but mysefl all is legal as crap according to cpa lady...

me....i'm legal ....golden...new business.....and they can't touch me...went thru my cpa all legal...but not a lot of incentive to mine BTC this year at equip options/prices

I'd be freaking now if i would have gotten these form letters from the bank if I'd NOT paid my taxes ...I'd have been so scewed is likely

anyway maybe i just have bad luck but them 10k wire xfers hither and yon ..always bugged me at over 10k each or same bell goes off for refund imho

seems being chicken and doing btc 'legit' just saved me a lot of grief

results may vary this is just me and a lot of the perks was new home business writeoffs and persks


Searing

Do you ever wonder why so many bums end up begging on the street corner?
Really low "income" is one way to legally avoid taxes, but a low-life is not a fun life.
I have never done street begging, but I have thought about it, years ago.

freedombit
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April 16, 2014, 06:18:14 AM
 #33

The last couple months there have been a lot of posts concerning the IRS ruling that bitcoins are to be treated as property and that it was required to pay a capital gains tax on the sale of bitcoins. Some people even posted that "bitcoin is doomed" because of the ruling.

To prove just how silly it is for people to worry about this, I created this thread to call out the IRS to prove what I owe in capital gains due to bitcoin sales.

So if there are any IRS employees trolling this thread, you're welcome to pour over the blockchain and tell me what I owe you.  Wink



Maybe OP lives somewhere the USA IRS doesn't have jurisdiction. Seems to me that quite a few countries are ignoring Bitcoin. Thus, profits are not taxable. These countries will likely do best in the new world (post internet) economy.
BadBear
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April 16, 2014, 06:32:08 AM
Last edit: April 16, 2014, 08:09:05 AM by BadBear
 #34

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

Even if they are able to identify him, how will they prove he owns how many Bitcoins?

That's not how audits work, the OP is just hilariously naive. The burden is on you to produce your records and prove you paid your taxes and accounted for all your income, not them. They don't need to prove you own x bitcoins, just that there are discrepancies you can't account for. That's tax evasion, period. Being able to prove how much you owe is just a bonus. They might not be able to ding you for the full amount you actually owe if they can't find it, but that isn't going to be much consolation when you're sitting in your cell and Bubba decides you got a purty mouth. IRS isn't as dumb as some you seem to think, and I have no doubt they'll be looking to make examples of some folks. Won't be me, I'm straight and legal.

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crazy_rabbit
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April 16, 2014, 06:35:00 AM
 #35

Well I don't know if thats a smart think to do (poke the beast and all) but without Gox records it's extremely hard and involves a lot of remembering. :-/

more or less retired.
Bit_Happy
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April 16, 2014, 07:20:06 AM
 #36

The last couple months there have been a lot of posts concerning the IRS ruling that bitcoins are to be treated as property and that it was required to pay a capital gains tax on the sale of bitcoins. Some people even posted that "bitcoin is doomed" because of the ruling.

To prove just how silly it is for people to worry about this, I created this thread to call out the IRS to prove what I owe in capital gains due to bitcoin sales.

So if there are any IRS employees trolling this thread, you're welcome to pour over the blockchain and tell me what I owe you.  Wink



Are you trying to Poke a Beehive of angry bees?

Mowcore
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April 16, 2014, 07:42:02 AM
 #37

The last couple months there have been a lot of posts concerning the IRS ruling that bitcoins are to be treated as property and that it was required to pay a capital gains tax on the sale of bitcoins. Some people even posted that "bitcoin is doomed" because of the ruling.

To prove just how silly it is for people to worry about this, I created this thread to call out the IRS to prove what I owe in capital gains due to bitcoin sales.

So if there are any IRS employees trolling this thread, you're welcome to pour over the blockchain and tell me what I owe you.  Wink



Are you trying to Poke a Beehive of angry bees?


...or a nest of sleepy Bumblebees?


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Elwar
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April 16, 2014, 07:43:06 AM
 #38

Because you did not pay your taxes there is a road somewhere that will disappear.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
Sage
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April 16, 2014, 07:53:56 AM
Last edit: April 16, 2014, 08:24:46 AM by Sage
 #39

Because you did not pay your taxes there is a road somewhere that will disappear.

Good God, how brainwashed are the American people?

Gas taxes pay for roads.

Property taxes pay for schools.

ANY public good you receive is paid for by taxes OTHER then the income tax.

100% of the income tax goes to pay interest on the debt (in other words, back into the Banksters pockets).

This was all done by design.  They turned you all into mind numb slaves.  And with the ignorance Elwar is displaying here you can understand how they got away with it.

You want to be a good American?  Keep your wealth in your community where it truly does benefit your fellow Americans.  And go to whatever means are necessary to keep it out of the hands of the Banksters.



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April 16, 2014, 08:23:11 AM
 #40

Just as an aside, here is a story from the UK about how the authorities treat "unexplained" income here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-26977356

As a dedicated tax resister (10 years as a high earner without paying income tax) in the UK, it's an area I know fairly well. It's only a matter of time before they step up their game against me. Bitcoins are the best way to protect assets from the state.

It's a point of principle for me. I will not fund the state where I can avoid it.

http://5fla.gs - @5flags on Twitter
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