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Author Topic: I didn't pay capital gains tax on bitcoin sales to IRS today  (Read 24012 times)
botolo86
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April 18, 2014, 01:09:10 AM
 #141

Let me say that I find this discussion pretty interesting. One additional concern that I have on the position of OP is the following one.

We can follow the belief of OP or have other opinions but I think we all want Bitcoin to succeed for different reasons. My concern is that if Bitcoin is seen as having as a main advantage the one to allow people to dodge taxes and hide their money, Bitcoin will fail because Government will highly regulate it. Unfortunately, Government has ways to completely kill Bitcoin, if they want to. They can start heavily taxing miners, they can ask for licenses for exchange platforms, they can expand criminal laws (terrorists may exchange money via Bitcoin), etc. And most likely the position of Government would be shared by most of the people: "what is this new tool that allows you to hide money? Why do you need to hide money? Do you have something to hide? Are you a terrorist? Are you a mafia guy?", etc.

We should focus, instead, on the technology aspect of Bitcoin, show to people why Bitcoin can benefit everyone: lower transaction fees mean that stores may give discounts, instant transfer means that you can send money to your family in another state or country with no delay, etc.

There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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Sage
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April 18, 2014, 04:58:41 AM
 #142

Let me say that I find this discussion pretty interesting. One additional concern that I have on the position of OP is the following one.

We can follow the belief of OP or have other opinions but I think we all want Bitcoin to succeed for different reasons. My concern is that if Bitcoin is seen as having as a main advantage the one to allow people to dodge taxes and hide their money, Bitcoin will fail because Government will highly regulate it. Unfortunately, Government has ways to completely kill Bitcoin, if they want to. They can start heavily taxing miners, they can ask for licenses for exchange platforms, they can expand criminal laws (terrorists may exchange money via Bitcoin), etc. And most likely the position of Government would be shared by most of the people: "what is this new tool that allows you to hide money? Why do you need to hide money? Do you have something to hide? Are you a terrorist? Are you a mafia guy?", etc.

We should focus, instead, on the technology aspect of Bitcoin, show to people why Bitcoin can benefit everyone: lower transaction fees mean that stores may give discounts, instant transfer means that you can send money to your family in another state or country with no delay, etc.


Don't be so damn ignorant.  No matter what the Bitcoin community does, central banks will use every tool at their disposal to kill or co-opt Bitcoin.

It's in direct competition with fiat.  Without fiat, they can't steal the wealth off the world.

There is no appeasing them.  

There is no trying to abide by their new & retroactively applied regulations.  

The only solution is to simply ignore them!

And one of the biggest selling points of Bitcoin & crypto currencies is the ability to ignore them, conducting business outside of the fiat scam system.

SHOUT it from the housetops.  There's now a way out!  

Any intelligent person will quickly see the advantage to taking that option.  The dependent & brainwashed lemmings will spout the kind of rhetoric you're spouting now....desperately clinging to a dying paradigm & keep whatever "benefits" they feel that dying system gives them.

Make no mistake about it, the cat is out of the bag.  Crypto currencies are an idea who's time has come.  They cannot shut down Bitcoin anymore then they can shut down Bittorrent.

All they can do is use toothless threats & intimidation to bluff the mindless lemmings into complying.

Get on the right side of history.  Embrace it.  Ignore the old dieing system.  



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April 18, 2014, 05:17:57 AM
 #143

Don't drop the soap  Grin

Yeah, because rape is really funny when it happens to a man right? hahahaahahaha

That is an apt handle you have chosen.


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dex1
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April 18, 2014, 08:33:50 AM
 #144

I hope you get caught
I hope the exact opposite. I watched Robin Hood the other day (the Disney version) ...

You do realize the I.R.S. is more like Robin Hood in this situation.

As much as I dislike the government/I.R.S., the OP is probably middle to upper class and if he/she paid the taxes it would be used in part for Social
Security which goes to the elderly and disabled.
Those who are not disabled/elderly and simply choose not to work probably don't deserve handouts.

If he/she is dodging taxes he/she probably isn't giving anything to any charity.

Ehmmm....This is not quite right as you think it is.

The system is rotten at its core.

7Priest7
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April 18, 2014, 03:00:37 PM
Last edit: April 18, 2014, 03:13:24 PM by 7Priest7
 #145

Robin hood gave the money to whom it was stolen from by outrageous taxes in the first place. You wish to give the money to people that never owned it based on your morality of who should have the money.

Yes OP is much closer to RH.
Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor.
The U.S. Government taxes the rich and gives to the poor.
We could embrace the alternative to social welfare, that is desperation/prostitution/robbery/muggings.
People will be robbed by poor/disabled people and they will outnumber by MANY.
The number of poor/disabled would be greater than all the jails combined could hold.
Also, jails cost money too, it would just shift the social welfare.
It is important to keep in mind, People who get Social Security paid into it, and are simply receiving what they paid for.
The U.S. government borrowed from Social Security when times were good now they are paying it back when times are less good.

Ehmmm....This is not quite right as you think it is.

The system is rotten at its core.
The I.R.S and Social Security are in the US.
The link is a UK related article.
Whenever a good thing exists people will always abuse/misuse it.
The internet is a good example, it is a great thing that provides knowledge/opportunities and people use it for evil.

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April 18, 2014, 03:27:17 PM
 #146

As much as I dislike the government/I.R.S., the OP is probably middle to upper class and if he/she paid the taxes it would be used in part almost entirely for Social Security which goes to the elderly and disabled. to pay the interest on Treasury bonds so the stockholders in the Federal Reserve can receive their 6% annual dividend on all US Dollars in existence.

There, fixed that for you..
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April 18, 2014, 05:24:45 PM
 #147

As much as I dislike the government/I.R.S., the OP is probably middle to upper class and if he/she paid the taxes it would be used in part almost entirely for Social Security which goes to the elderly and disabled. to pay the interest on Treasury bonds so the stockholders in the Federal Reserve can receive their 6% annual dividend on all US Dollars in existence.

There, fixed that for you..

Right, You all are so certain.
For the most part new debt is used to pay old debt.
Taxes go to alot of things.
Repayment of the ssa debt is one of them.
The government shoulda kept their hands out of the ssa cookie jar.
botolo86
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April 18, 2014, 05:48:54 PM
 #148

As much as I dislike the government/I.R.S., the OP is probably middle to upper class and if he/she paid the taxes it would be used in part almost entirely for Social Security which goes to the elderly and disabled. to pay the interest on Treasury bonds so the stockholders in the Federal Reserve can receive their 6% annual dividend on all US Dollars in existence.

There, fixed that for you..



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April 18, 2014, 06:08:36 PM
 #149

As much as I dislike the government/I.R.S., the OP is probably middle to upper class and if he/she paid the taxes it would be used in part almost entirely for Social Security which goes to the elderly and disabled. to pay the interest on Treasury bonds so the stockholders in the Federal Reserve can receive their 6% annual dividend on all US Dollars in existence.

There, fixed that for you..





Another government shill spouting mis-information.  How do you shills sleep at night?  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grace_Commission

"With two thirds of everyone’s personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt and by federal government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government."

Do you really think anything has changed?

Not one red cent of the income tax goes to benefit any American whatsoever.  It goes back into the banksters pockets.  All by design.  

...Where it is used to foment wars for profit...  

That's what central banks do... enslave nations with debt through fomenting, then funding wars.  That's what you're supporting when you send in that check to the private criminal organization known as the Federal Reserve & their collection agency the IRS.

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April 18, 2014, 06:14:09 PM
 #150

Seven pages in and no one has proven that I owe the IRS anything for capital gains.

That's because they have no idea what private keys I possess.

You have to tell us something more to give you an answer. Tell us something about the way you get your income and the way you spend your money.

botolo86 is a government shill working for the IRS.

Take anything he says in that light.
cryptoanarchist (OP)
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April 18, 2014, 06:20:17 PM
 #151

Seven pages in and no one has proven that I owe the IRS anything for capital gains.

That's because they have no idea what private keys I possess.

You have to tell us something more to give you an answer. Tell us something about the way you get your income and the way you spend your money.



HAHA...I missed that because I already had him ignored. Busted yourself, botolo!  Grin


I'm grumpy!!
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April 18, 2014, 06:20:35 PM
 #152

In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government."

Do you really think anything has changed?

Not one red cent of the income tax goes to benefit any American whatsoever.  It goes back into the banksters pockets.  All by design.  

Somehow my roads and bridges are getting repaired, snow is being plowed, my library is open and lending books and videos, my water works, my sewer works, my court systems are functioning, police are responding when needed, fire engines are putting out fires, etc. etc.

If none of that is being paid for, then I guess I'm happy everyone is working for free for me.  Roll Eyes
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April 18, 2014, 06:27:12 PM
 #153

In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government."

Do you really think anything has changed?

Not one red cent of the income tax goes to benefit any American whatsoever.  It goes back into the banksters pockets.  All by design.  

Somehow my roads and bridges are getting repaired, snow is being plowed, my library is open and lending books and videos, my water works, my sewer works, my court systems are functioning, police are responding when needed, fire engines are putting out fires, etc. etc.

If none of that is being paid for, then I guess I'm happy everyone is working for free for me.  Roll Eyes


Roads/bridges are paid for by gas taxes.

Sewer & library is paid for by city taxes.

Water is paid for by you.  Did you miss your water bill?

Local police, fire, and courts are all paid for by city/state taxes.

Not one red cent of the income tax goes toward any of those things.  Another brainwashed lemming!
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April 18, 2014, 06:47:32 PM
Last edit: April 18, 2014, 10:24:48 PM by cryptoanarchist
 #154

In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government."

Do you really think anything has changed?

Not one red cent of the income tax goes to benefit any American whatsoever.  It goes back into the banksters pockets.  All by design.  

Somehow my roads and bridges are getting repaired, snow is being plowed, my library is open and lending books and videos, my water works, my sewer works, my court systems are functioning, police are responding when needed, fire engines are putting out fires, etc. etc.

If none of that is being paid for, then I guess I'm happy everyone is working for free for me.  Roll Eyes


Roads/bridges are paid for by gas taxes.

Sewer & library is paid for by city taxes.

Water is paid for by you.  Did you miss your water bill?

Local police, fire, and courts are all paid for by city/state taxes.

Not one red cent of the income tax goes toward any of those things.  Another brainwashed lemming!


The stupidity of people is breathtaking. These morons think that roads and bridges require extorting money out of people or no one would build them. Nevermind that the free market has put a smartphone in everyones' pockets, or that the free market can bring us food from all over the planet, we need government to extort money from us to pave roads?

The free market can create, market, and sell to even the poorest of people smartphones, but these morons think that without government, no one could could figure roads out??

Seriously, you statist morons embarrass yourselves. Its to the point that the rest of us need to consider you as a food source because you're too stupid to be considered human beings anymore.

I'm grumpy!!
botolo86
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April 19, 2014, 02:42:47 AM
 #155

Another government shill spouting mis-information.  How do you shills sleep at night?  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grace_Commission

"With two thirds of everyone’s personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt and by federal government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government."

Do you really think anything has changed?

Not one red cent of the income tax goes to benefit any American whatsoever.  It goes back into the banksters pockets.  All by design.  

...Where it is used to foment wars for profit...  

That's what central banks do... enslave nations with debt through fomenting, then funding wars.  That's what you're supporting when you send in that check to the private criminal organization known as the Federal Reserve & their collection agency the IRS.



Interesting, you are referring to the results of a commission that presented its report more than thirty years ago. It's a little bit old evidence.

Just to clarify how taxes work, here is some additional info for you, released by the National Priorities Project, an American non-governmental organization founded in 1983. NPP’s mission is to make federal budgets transparent and accessible so that citizens can engage in overseeing and influencing how their tax dollars are spent.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Priorities_Project

According to the report total federal tax revenues in fiscal year 2014 are projected to be $3 trillion. These revenues come from three major sources: income taxes paid by individuals, accounting for 46 percent of all tax revenues; payroll taxes paid jointly by workers and employers, accounting for 34 percent; and corporate income taxes paid by businesses, making up 11 percent.

Source: http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/revenues/

In fiscal year 2014, the federal government will spend around $3.8 trillion. [...] The U.S. Treasury divides all spending into three groups: mandatory spending and discretionary spending and interest on debt. Interest on debt, which is much smaller than the other two categories, is the interest the government pays on its accumulated debt, minus interest income received by the government for assets it owns.

This is where the spending will go:



Source: http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/alt/?utm_expid=84498401-5.1T2lB6d5SEmMcoN-3M_tZA.1&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fnationalpriorities.org%2Fanalysis%2F

If you want, you can also see how taxes were used in previous years, by accessing the public budget that you can find on the pages of the same website.

In any case, I am not going to participate in this debate anymore, OP in his last post showed how little respect he has for the freedom to express your own thoughts. I was trying to create a constructive debate together with other users here but reading about "the stupidity of people", "morons", "food source" simply demonstrate how little you guys are interested in a fair exchange of ideas and opinions.
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April 19, 2014, 03:09:29 AM
 #156

In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government."

Do you really think anything has changed?

Not one red cent of the income tax goes to benefit any American whatsoever.  It goes back into the banksters pockets.  All by design.  

Somehow my roads and bridges are getting repaired, snow is being plowed, my library is open and lending books and videos, my water works, my sewer works, my court systems are functioning, police are responding when needed, fire engines are putting out fires, etc. etc.

If none of that is being paid for, then I guess I'm happy everyone is working for free for me.  Roll Eyes


Roads/bridges are paid for by gas taxes.

Sewer & library is paid for by city taxes.

Water is paid for by you.  Did you miss your water bill?

Local police, fire, and courts are all paid for by city/state taxes.

Not one red cent of the income tax goes toward any of those things.  Another brainwashed lemming!


You are well on the way to a Detroit moment ...

mostly those taxes go into public pension funds, that have actually been siphonoed off by "financial services".

Sage
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April 19, 2014, 03:21:29 AM
Last edit: April 19, 2014, 03:40:57 AM by Sage
 #157

Another government shill spouting mis-information.  How do you shills sleep at night?  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grace_Commission

"With two thirds of everyone’s personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt and by federal government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government."

Do you really think anything has changed?

Not one red cent of the income tax goes to benefit any American whatsoever.  It goes back into the banksters pockets.  All by design.  

...Where it is used to foment wars for profit...  

That's what central banks do... enslave nations with debt through fomenting, then funding wars.  That's what you're supporting when you send in that check to the private criminal organization known as the Federal Reserve & their collection agency the IRS.



Interesting, you are referring to the results of a commission that presented its report more than thirty years ago. It's a little bit old evidence.

Just to clarify how taxes work, here is some additional info for you, released by the National Priorities Project, an American non-governmental organization founded in 1983. NPP’s mission is to make federal budgets transparent and accessible so that citizens can engage in overseeing and influencing how their tax dollars are spent.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Priorities_Project

According to the report total federal tax revenues in fiscal year 2014 are projected to be $3 trillion. These revenues come from three major sources: income taxes paid by individuals, accounting for 46 percent of all tax revenues; payroll taxes paid jointly by workers and employers, accounting for 34 percent; and corporate income taxes paid by businesses, making up 11 percent.

Source: http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/revenues/

In fiscal year 2014, the federal government will spend around $3.8 trillion. [...] The U.S. Treasury divides all spending into three groups: mandatory spending and discretionary spending and interest on debt. Interest on debt, which is much smaller than the other two categories, is the interest the government pays on its accumulated debt, minus interest income received by the government for assets it owns.

This is where the spending will go:



Source: http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/alt/?utm_expid=84498401-5.1T2lB6d5SEmMcoN-3M_tZA.1&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fnationalpriorities.org%2Fanalysis%2F

If you want, you can also see how taxes were used in previous years, by accessing the public budget that you can find on the pages of the same website.

In any case, I am not going to participate in this debate anymore, OP in his last post showed how little respect he has for the freedom to express your own thoughts. I was trying to create a constructive debate together with other users here but reading about "the stupidity of people", "morons", "food source" simply demonstrate how little you guys are interested in a fair exchange of ideas and opinions.



What botolo86, don't feel respected? (tear tear)  Not use to "citizens" not bowing to your every word?

God forbid they question your propaganda?

God forbid they don't cower at your fear & intimidation tactics!

God forbid they call out you & your shilling for what it is!

Yep the Grace commission was 30 years old.  Since then debt created by the illegal & fraudulent Federal Reserve has only exploded.

So too has the interest payment!  Reaching the dangerous tipping point of more then 100% GDP.


If you don't understand the significance of that botolo86, then perhaps you should ask your masters.  Or maybe actually do your own thinking & research outside of your masters approved boundaries.

It's laughable that you would use the Presidents proposed total spending to justify the the income tax.

…KNOWING that not ONE RED CENT OF THE INCOME TAX goes to ANY of that "proposed" spending other then interest on the debt to the frauds at the Federal Reserve.

There are actually LEGAL & CONSTITUTIONAL ways the federal government can fund itself.  The income tax is NOT one of them!

How do you shills sleep at night?  Knowing the pain & suffering your organization has caused in the world?  Do they brainwash you so much that you don't use an ounce of intellect or reason any longer?

...Or do they just buy you off, offering so much wealth ethics be damned?

You're either willfully ignorant or you've sold your soul botolo86.  In either case shills like you deserve no respect or attention.








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April 19, 2014, 03:37:03 AM
 #158

what pisses me off about that pie chart if it is accurate is the 33%. That is mostly bullshit wasted money. I have been paying into SS for over a decade and I put a massive amount into my own retirement accounts myself, 33% for a support network and welfare and unemployment (which are being GROSSLY abused) is too fucking much.
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April 19, 2014, 04:19:09 AM
 #159

It's laughable that you would use the Presidents proposed total spending to justify the the income tax.

OMG, you guys simply can't read. I told you that you can check the public balance of past years on the same website, all checked by this non-governmental entity. Guys, you can argue what you want but if the government publishes the balance and it's checked by a non-governmental entity, if you want to counter argue you have to bring evidence. Bring me an analysis of some reliable entity that has checked the balance of government of 2012 or 2013 and proves what you say. Then we will talk.
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April 19, 2014, 04:30:26 AM
 #160

It's laughable that you would use the Presidents proposed total spending to justify the the income tax.

OMG, you guys simply can't read. I told you that you can check the public balance of past years on the same website, all checked by this non-governmental entity. Guys, you can argue what you want but if the government publishes the balance and it's checked by a non-governmental entity, if you want to counter argue you have to bring evidence. Bring me an analysis of some reliable entity that has checked the balance of government of 2012 or 2013 and proves what you say. Then we will talk.

"Proposed" spending as "evidence" to justify the illegal income tax?

The federal government has a lot of sources of revenue.  Some are actually legal & constitutional.  To use those sources of revenue and "proposed" spending of that revenue to justify the ILLEGAL & IMMORAL income tax just goes to show just how flawed your logic is.

Not one red cent of the illegal income tax goes to benefit any American in any way!

Wake up SHILL!

You're on the wrong side of history!  The paradigm has changed.  Your 101 year scam is over.  You & the organizations you shill for are a dieing dinosaur.


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