Bribing government for bitcoins...

[nkocevar]

Say one was to send a message to.. maybe someone at dod.gov... and say that they know secret and classified "information" surrounding the killing of Osama bin Laden. And it said that the government must send 2000BTC to a said address or else the information will be leaked in a week. Would the government go for it, and if so, would and could there be charges brought up against the person for doing that?

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[casinocoin]

Yes the Feds will be visiting you quickly.

[nkocevar]

Yes the Feds will be visiting you quickly.

I didnt say me... I was just speaking theoretically. Could you tell me what charges could be brought against the person doing it?

[turvarya]

Yes the Feds will be visiting you quickly.

I didnt say me... I was just speaking theoretically. Could you tell me what charges could be brought against the person doing it?

It's called blackmailing. Just google it.

[nkocevar]

Yes the Feds will be visiting you quickly.

I didnt say me... I was just speaking theoretically. Could you tell me what charges could be brought against the person doing it?

It's called blackmailing. Just google it.

But what if one did it anonymously... say through tor? What do you think the chances are of it succeeding?

[nkocevar]

Yes the Feds will be visiting you quickly.

I didnt say me... I was just speaking theoretically. Could you tell me what charges could be brought against the person doing it?

It's called blackmailing. Just google it.

But what if one did it anonymously... say through tor? What do you think the chances are of it succeeding?

I am going to assume that they could fall for it. They have spent billions on other stupid programs, so they could shell out a million for this. Im sure something fishy went down when they killed (or didnt kill) osama, and they dont want the american people to find out.

[byt411]

Yes the Feds will be visiting you quickly.

I didnt say me... I was just speaking theoretically. Could you tell me what charges could be brought against the person doing it?

It's called blackmailing. Just google it.

But what if one did it anonymously... say through tor? What do you think the chances are of it succeeding?

I am going to assume that they could fall for it. They have spent billions on other stupid programs, so they could shell out a million for this. Im sure something fishy went down when they killed (or didnt kill) osama, and they dont want the american people to find out.

Yes, something is fishy, but you can't just blackmail them like that. They won't pay you.

[5flags]

It's called blackmailing. Just google it.

Probably extortion...maybe?

Delightfully similar to a government demanding money (what they call "taxes) or they will throw you in a cage.

[turvarya]

It's called blackmailing. Just google it.

Probably extortion...maybe?

Delightfully similar to a government demanding money (what they call "taxes) or they will throw you in a cage.

What is the difference between extortion and blackmailing?
And no, it is not like taxes.

Has this forum recently be captured by criminals, who call them self anarchists?

[5flags]

What is the difference between extortion and blackmailing?

From Wiki:

Blackmail may also be considered a form of extortion.[1] Although the two are generally synonymous, extortion is the taking of personal property by threat of future harm.[9] Blackmail is the use of threats to prevent another from engaging in a lawful occupation and writing libelous letters or letters that provoke a breach of the peace, as well as use of intimidation for purposes of collecting an unpaid debt.[4]

Yea, actually I'm not sure that helps...

And no, it is not like taxes.

Government demands money on threat of imprisonment. Individual demands money on threat of telling the truth.

Actually you're right, they aren't the same.

[lindeanin]

would and could there be charges brought up against the person for doing that?

As they say, in USA, everything is possible 

I personally think it is just business offer, after all it is just information, but I can see how paranoid government can see it differently like you threatening somebody with true or false information

[nkocevar]

would and could there be charges brought up against the person for doing that?

As they say, in USA, everything is possible 

I personally think it is just business offer, after all it is just information, but I can see how paranoid government can see it differently like you threatening somebody with true or false information

I know someone who might try it, but with information on a different topic that they really have.

[franky1]

if someone was willing to extort the government. then their morals should not be trusted by the government, that after payment the data will or wont be destroyed.

this is the whole "we don't negotiate with kidnappers/terrorists" mindset they have.

[jparsley]

Yes the Feds will be visiting you quickly.

better dont do it

[turvarya]

What is the difference between extortion and blackmailing?

From Wiki:

Blackmail may also be considered a form of extortion.[1] Although the two are generally synonymous, extortion is the taking of personal property by threat of future harm.[9] Blackmail is the use of threats to prevent another from engaging in a lawful occupation and writing libelous letters or letters that provoke a breach of the peace, as well as use of intimidation for purposes of collecting an unpaid debt.[4]

Yea, actually I'm not sure that helps...

And no, it is not like taxes.

Government demands money on threat of imprisonment. Individual demands money on threat of telling the truth.

Actually you're right, they aren't the same.

So, if you are taking a good or service, don't pay for it and the salesman treatens to sue you, that is also extortion? Governments provide you with common goods, you have to pay for it via taxes. Sure, you can argue that, they charge too much, but you can say the same about Apple.

[5flags]

So, if you are taking a good or service, don't pay for it and the salesman treatens to sue you, that is also extortion?

Of course not. I have the option to not buy the good or service, and I have the option to go to another merchant.

Governments provide you with common goods, you have to pay for it via taxes.

Can I decide that I don't want the government's goods and services?

Sure, you can argue that, they charge too much, but you can say the same about Apple.

Can I decide that I don't want Apple's goods and services?

You see the difference?

[DannyHamilton]

No, they won't pay.

You'll be lucky if they decide to find you and prosecute you.

If you're unlucky, they'll just hunt you down and kill you.

[BittBurger]

I am going to assume that they could fall for it. They have spent billions on other stupid programs, so they could shell out a million for this. Im sure something fishy went down when they killed (or didnt kill) osama, and they dont want the american people to find out.

Why would you go this route in the first place?  This kind of corrupt behavior is exactly what Bitcoin was created to abolish.  Don't act like the very people Bitcoin was made to neuter.

-B-

[turvarya]

So, if you are taking a good or service, don't pay for it and the salesman treatens to sue you, that is also extortion?

Of course not. I have the option to not buy the good or service, and I have the option to go to another merchant.

Governments provide you with common goods, you have to pay for it via taxes.

Can I decide that I don't want the government's goods and services?

Sure, you can argue that, they charge too much, but you can say the same about Apple.

Can I decide that I don't want Apple's goods and services?

You see the difference?

Sure, you can. Move the fuck out of your country and revoke your citizenship.
As long as you stay in a country, you are using their common goods and services. Don't tell me you never used a street.

[5flags]

Sure, you can. Move the fuck out of your country and revoke your citizenship.
As long as you stay in a country, you are using their common goods and services. Don't tell me you never used a street.

So I should be banished from my home because I object to a political entity using violence to force goods and services on me and demanding payment for them?

If a business in Sicily is targeted by a mafia protection racket, should they just "move the fuck out of their country" if they don't like it?

I guess some people are just born to be ruled.

[turvarya]

Sure, you can. Move the fuck out of your country and revoke your citizenship.
As long as you stay in a country, you are using their common goods and services. Don't tell me you never used a street.

So I should be banished from my home because I object to a political entity using violence to force goods and services on me and demanding payment for them?

If a business in Sicily is targeted by a mafia protection racket, should they just "move the fuck out of their country" if they don't like it?

I guess some people are just born to be ruled.

So, you don't use streets?

[5flags]

So, you don't use streets?

The Mafia is keeping you and your family safe. Don't you want your family to be safe? Good. Pay up.

[turvarya]

So, you don't use streets?

The Mafia is keeping you and your family safe. Don't you want your family to be safe? Good. Pay up.

Not answering my question, just shows how wrong you are.
If you don't want to pay for streets, than just move to a country without streets.

And don't give me that "I never signed up for that"-bullshit. You don't have a choice, where you are born, but you have a choice about where to live as an adult. You don't like, that you were born in a city? Move to a cave as an adult.

[bountygiver]

So, you don't use streets?

The Mafia is keeping you and your family safe. Don't you want your family to be safe? Good. Pay up.

Not answering my question, just shows how wrong you are.
If you don't want to pay for streets, than just move to a country without streets.

And don't give me that "I never signed up for that"-bullshit. You don't have a choice, where you are born, but you have a choice about where to live as an adult. You don't like, that you were born in a city? Move to a cave as an adult.

But you are just moving from one mafia territory to another, you don't really have a REAL choice there.

[5flags]

Not answering my question, just shows how wrong you are.

No. My question demonstrates the idiocy of your question. If I'm wrong, answer my question. Do you not want your family to be safe? If you do, then pay up.

If you don't want to pay for streets, than just move to a country without streets.

If you don't want the Mafia to protect you, then move to a country without a Mafia.

And don't give me that "I never signed up for that"-bullshit. You don't have a choice, where you are born, but you have a choice about where to live as an adult. You don't like, that you were born in a city? Move to a cave as an adult.

Why should I accept injustice just because a political entity sets itself up to maintain a monopoly on the use of violence to enforce that injustice??

Gandhi used non-violent resistance to oppose British rule and what he saw as unfair taxes on Indian workers, can you imagine telling him "if you don't like taxes and British rule, move to another country"?

Can you imagine telling Mandela "if you don't like apartheid, live somewhere else"?

Can you imagine telling Arabs in the Arab spring "if you don't like this government, go somewhere else"?

You advocate cowardice and submission. That might sit well with you if you are predisposed to it, but it would stick in my throat. Any time someone tries to take away the fruits of my labour using the threat of violence, I will say no.

[nkocevar]

Not answering my question, just shows how wrong you are.

No. My question demonstrates the idiocy of your question. If I'm wrong, answer my question. Do you not want your family to be safe? If you do, then pay up.

If you don't want to pay for streets, than just move to a country without streets.

If you don't want the Mafia to protect you, then move to a country without a Mafia.

And don't give me that "I never signed up for that"-bullshit. You don't have a choice, where you are born, but you have a choice about where to live as an adult. You don't like, that you were born in a city? Move to a cave as an adult.

Why should I accept injustice just because a political entity sets itself up to maintain a monopoly on the use of violence to enforce that injustice??

Gandhi used non-violent resistance to oppose British rule and what he saw as unfair taxes on Indian workers, can you imagine telling him "if you don't like taxes and British rule, move to another country"?

Can you imagine telling Mandela "if you don't like apartheid, live somewhere else"?

Can you imagine telling Arabs in the Arab spring "if you don't like this government, go somewhere else"?

You advocate cowardice and submission. That might sit well with you if you are predisposed to it, but it would stick in my throat. Any time someone tries to take away the fruits of my labour using the threat of violence, I will say no.

I love how off topic this has gotten. Please create a new topic on this xD im interested

[TopherB]

You advocate cowardice and submission. That might sit well with you if you are predisposed to it, but it would stick in my throat. Any time someone tries to take away the fruits of my labour using the threat of violence, I will say no.

So basically you will make use of (steal) the infrastructure, services and protections of your country without compensation because the payment is not optional? A country is like any other product if you don't like it don't buy it. But to use it without paying is theft. And yes, I left mine, twice. Although with no family and a job I could do anywhere with an internet connection it was easier for me than most.

[nkocevar]

You advocate cowardice and submission. That might sit well with you if you are predisposed to it, but it would stick in my throat. Any time someone tries to take away the fruits of my labour using the threat of violence, I will say no.

So basically you will make use of (steal) the infrastructure, services and protections of your country without compensation because the payment is not optional? A country is like any other product if you don't like it don't buy it. But to use it without paying is theft. And yes, I left mine, twice. Although with no family and a job I could do anywhere with an internet connection it was easier for me than most.

I agree with you on this... But I am concerned about what the government is spending the tax money on, not the tax itself.

[Beliathon]

I wouldn't recommend making yourself a blatant enemy of the United States Government.

Lay low and wait for them to implode on their own, then we can all pick up the pieces and build something that actually works.

[Polyrhythm]

Very smart plan indeed...

[Elwar]

Someone already tried this.

They sent a message to Mitt Romney saying that they had some damning information on him, gave a hint as to what it was using some wording from some paperwork of his, then asked for a million dollars in bitcoins by a certain date.

Romney never paid it, the guy was eventually caught.

[bryant.coleman]

Remember the CryptoLocker virus? It had attacked a number of systems used by the UK Police Department and encrypted the office files. In the end the cops had to pay the ransom amount, to unlock the files. I am not hearing about Cryptolocker lately. What happened to it? There are rumors that the people behind it have been arrested.

[jonald_fyookball]

Say one was to send a message to.. maybe someone at dod.gov... and say that they know secret and classified "information" surrounding the killing of Osama bin Laden. And it said that the government must send 2000BTC to a said address or else the information will be leaked in a week. Would the government go for it, and if so, would and could there be charges brought up against the person for doing that?

My opinion: It would probably not work unless the info you had was VERY critical.  I don't think the Feds want to set a precedent of being able to be bullied.  Kind of the old "we don't negotiate with terrorists" mentality.  

What's your motivation for asking such a question?

[Elwar]

Here's what happened when this was done:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/1/4483048/hacker-who-demanded-1-million-in-bitcoins-from-mitt-romney-charged

[Wheelie]

Waiting for the next big news acticle (eating popcorn) nom nom

Dude come on,serious

[nkocevar]

Say one was to send a message to.. maybe someone at dod.gov... and say that they know secret and classified "information" surrounding the killing of Osama bin Laden. And it said that the government must send 2000BTC to a said address or else the information will be leaked in a week. Would the government go for it, and if so, would and could there be charges brought up against the person for doing that?

My opinion: It would probably not work unless the info you had was VERY critical.  I don't think the Feds want to set a precedent of being able to be bullied.  Kind of the old "we don't negotiate with terrorists" mentality.  

What's your motivation for asking such a question?

Just something to think about. I mean im sure someone could guess something went awry with that operation and have the government convinced they know something. And the government might want to cover up their tracks. You never know what could happen...

[nkocevar]

Waiting for the next big news acticle (eating popcorn) nom nom

Dude come on,serious

Haha hey im not really gonna try it. I was just putting that out there and seeing if it could be a possibility.

[Joshuar]

You advocate cowardice and submission. That might sit well with you if you are predisposed to it, but it would stick in my throat. Any time someone tries to take away the fruits of my labour using the threat of violence, I will say no.

So basically you will make use of (steal) the infrastructure, services and protections of your country without compensation because the payment is not optional? A country is like any other product if you don't like it don't buy it. But to use it without paying is theft. And yes, I left mine, twice. Although with no family and a job I could do anywhere with an internet connection it was easier for me than most.

This +1, 5flags is irrational. He's using government funded services everyday but doesn't wanna pay up..Grow up dude, if you don't wanna use sidewalks, or streets, or the internet, or clothes, or toothbrushes, practically anything, since there all connected to the government someway somehow, then go live on Mars.

[jbreher]

Romney never paid it, the guy was eventually caught.

Or -a- guy was caught. Last I heard, the so-called implicating evidence looked awfully thin.

[NorTiaN]

Dude, just go for it, then come back here and tell us how it turn out. And if you dont come back, we will surely know how it went!! 

[Kluge]

On a related note, Bitcoin's pretty awesome for petty bribes you're expected to pay in semi-industrial countries.

You advocate cowardice and submission. That might sit well with you if you are predisposed to it, but it would stick in my throat. Any time someone tries to take away the fruits of my labour using the threat of violence, I will say no.

So basically you will make use of (steal) the infrastructure, services and protections of your country without compensation because the payment is not optional? A country is like any other product if you don't like it don't buy it. But to use it without paying is theft. And yes, I left mine, twice. Although with no family and a job I could do anywhere with an internet connection it was easier for me than most.

This +1, 5flags is irrational. He's using government funded services everyday but doesn't wanna pay up..Grow up dude, if you don't wanna use sidewalks, or streets, or the internet, or clothes, or toothbrushes, practically anything, since there all connected to the government someway somehow, then go live on Mars.

Not sure if serious. You don't think we'd have toothbrushes if there were no government? Like if it weren't for government, the toothbrush manufacturers would be totally confused as to what to do and just dump everything they manufacture into the ocean until they're insolvent or raided by one of every citizen who's suddenly joined a violent gang now that government dissolved?

[5flags]

As it's a fun and interesting discussion, I've started a thread on the topic here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579899.0

[findftp]

Yes the Feds will be visiting you quickly.

I didnt say me... I was just speaking theoretically. Could you tell me what charges could be brought against the person doing it?

It's called blackmailing. Just google it.

But what if one did it anonymously... say through tor? What do you think the chances are of it succeeding?

a) TOR is not anonymous. (but they let you think it is)
b) Your blog where you put the info have 1 visitor a week.
c) Find a job.

[bountygiver]

Even when it is a property, it is still bribing.

Bribing with a TV is still bribing, period.

[Beliathon]

5flags is irrational.

Good to see the obligatory political abuse of psychology has now arrived in the thread.

He's using government funded services everyday but doesn't wanna pay up..
Grow up dude, if you don't wanna use sidewalks, or streets, or the internet, or clothes, or toothbrushes, practically anything, since there all connected to the government someway somehow, then go live on Mars.

I'd recognize this bullshit argument anywhere. I've seen it before.

[Bitcoin Magazine]

Say one was to send a message to.. maybe someone at dod.gov... and say that they know secret and classified "information" surrounding the killing of Osama bin Laden. And it said that the government must send 2000BTC to a said address or else the information will be leaked in a week. Would the government go for it, and if so, would and could there be charges brought up against the person for doing that?

no, BTCitcoin is real money unlike phoney baloney american dollars which are only used for publicity stunts.  no one is gonna waste REAL money on something with obvoiusly no value (who cares why someone died.  they're DEAD get over it)

[Ruthful]

While I usually find anarchist opinion to interesting ,informative and somewhat enlightening in many ways ,your argument are just imbecilic on so many levels.

If you don't want the Mafia to protect you, then move to a country without a Mafia.

Does this mafia protection involves providing and maintaining basic infrastuctures such as road,health and rescue services(firefighters,ambulance and medicines etc) ,protection from unscrupulous act/attempts against you(even from the Mafia itself) access to basic education,governance  and whatnots?And are the "fees" competitive compared to what the local government taxes you while managing similar or superior quality of services?
If yes than I would probably accept the Mafia administration any time

Why should I accept injustice just because a political entity sets itself up to maintain a monopoly on the use of violence to enforce that injustice??

Then I suggest you moves away from the country that oppresses you or organise a resistance.

Gandhi used non-violent resistance to oppose British rule and what he saw as unfair taxes on Indian workers, can you imagine telling him "if you don't like taxes and British rule, move to another country"?

You can't seriously equate a struggle against  a colonial ruler (India belongs to Gandhi and his countrymen ,not the British) as the same as not paying taxes

Can you imagine telling Mandela "if you don't like apartheid, live somewhere else"?

Again , this irrelevant and unrepresentative.Unless you are suggesting that havingto pay taxes is equivalent to living in an apartheid system.

Can you imagine telling Arabs in the Arab spring "if you don't like this government, go somewhere else"?

The Arabs were fighting against despotic no-democratic rulers in which they have little say and no way of choosing/changing government.Unless you're living in a similar state, your argument is moot.

You advocate cowardice and submission. That might sit well with you if you are predisposed to it, but it would stick in my throat. Any time someone tries to take away the fruits of my labour using the threat of violence, I will say no.

I'm with you this one.If anyone trying to take the fruit of my labour without giving anything consequential of beneficial  in return , then they can expect me to fight back.While I am dissatisfied on how they used my tax money (or the rate of tax for that matter) in my country, I always recognise the necessity of it and conceded paying as my duty/gift to society.


Back to the OP's topic.Your scenario reminded me of similar blackmail scene in "The Dark Knight",though here the punishment must be more severe