JorgeStolfi
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March 19, 2015, 02:18:43 PM |
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Anybody know of evidence these funds have been dumped? I figure the $40 price drop the last day or so is either because the Evolution stash was dumped, or people rushed to sell in expectation it would be dumped, and caused a panic-dump instead.
It seems unlikely that the thieves will try to sell the stolen coins directly on an exchange. (Wasn't there a case of an exchange freezing and returning cryptocoins that had been stolen and deposited there by the thief?) The thieves could swap those coins off-exchange with some large criminal mafia; say 5 stolen coins for 1 "clean" coin. The mafia could keep the coins until they "cooled off", or use them for other criminal trades. Meanwhile the thieves could sell the clean coins on the exchanges, and withdraw the cash to legit bank accounts --- and no one would be able to connect that money to the theft.
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Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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itod
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Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
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March 19, 2015, 07:08:11 PM |
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Anybody know of evidence these funds have been dumped? I figure the $40 price drop the last day or so is either because the Evolution stash was dumped, or people rushed to sell in expectation it would be dumped, and caused a panic-dump instead.
It seems unlikely that the thieves will try to sell the stolen coins directly on an exchange. (Wasn't there a case of an exchange freezing and returning cryptocoins that had been stolen and deposited there by the thief?) The thieves could swap those coins off-exchange with some large criminal mafia; say 5 stolen coins for 1 "clean" coin. The mafia could keep the coins until they "cooled off", or use them for other criminal trades. Meanwhile the thieves could sell the clean coins on the exchanges, and withdraw the cash to legit bank accounts --- and no one would be able to connect that money to the theft. Thieves probably use mixers, there are much smaller expenses to get hard to trace coins in return. For such a large amount like 130K BTC they will probably have to split in smaller batches before they send it to mixers, no mixer has big enough volume for the coins to be untraceable.
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JorgeStolfi
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March 19, 2015, 08:19:56 PM |
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Thieves probably use mixers, there are much smaller expenses to get hard to trace coins in return. For such a large amount like 130K BTC they will probably have to split in smaller batches before they send it to mixers, no mixer has big enough volume for the coins to be untraceable.
But, how can the thieves be sure that the mixer is not operated by, hacked by, or cooperating with the police? While the cops may not care for the victims' losses, they must be verey interested in identifying any dark market operators.
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Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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erpbridge
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March 19, 2015, 09:08:53 PM |
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Thieves probably use mixers, there are much smaller expenses to get hard to trace coins in return. For such a large amount like 130K BTC they will probably have to split in smaller batches before they send it to mixers, no mixer has big enough volume for the coins to be untraceable.
But, how can the thieves be sure that the mixer is not operated by, hacked by, or cooperating with the police? While the cops may not care for the victims' losses, they must be verey interested in identifying any dark market operators. Mixers like Bitmixer usually do the mixing in faster speeds. They could easily use a site to deposit coins to and withdraw directly to the mixer, leaving almost no evidence for the mixer to be able to track that fast. There are also a lot of other ways they can mix and sell their coins.
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1Referee
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Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
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March 19, 2015, 09:39:52 PM |
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Anybody know of evidence these funds have been dumped? I figure the $40 price drop the last day or so is either because the Evolution stash was dumped, or people rushed to sell in expectation it would be dumped, and caused a panic-dump instead.
It seems unlikely that the thieves will try to sell the stolen coins directly on an exchange. (Wasn't there a case of an exchange freezing and returning cryptocoins that had been stolen and deposited there by the thief?) The thieves could swap those coins off-exchange with some large criminal mafia; say 5 stolen coins for 1 "clean" coin. The mafia could keep the coins until they "cooled off", or use them for other criminal trades. Meanwhile the thieves could sell the clean coins on the exchanges, and withdraw the cash to legit bank accounts --- and no one would be able to connect that money to the theft. Thieves probably use mixers, there are much smaller expenses to get hard to trace coins in return. For such a large amount like 130K BTC they will probably have to split in smaller batches before they send it to mixers, no mixer has big enough volume for the coins to be untraceable. Isn't it possible for a mixer to identify stolen coins once deposited and "seize" the coins temporarily to return them to the rightful owner? I don't think any mixer would want to give a thief clean coins and get dirty coins in return. It will ruin their name and make them equally as bad if they know they mixed stolen coins just to scoop up a good fee.
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JorgeStolfi
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 20, 2015, 12:32:32 AM |
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how can the thieves be sure that the mixer is not operated by, hacked by, or cooperating with the police?
Mixers like Bitmixer usually do the mixing in faster speeds. They could easily use a site to deposit coins to and withdraw directly to the mixer, leaving almost no evidence for the mixer to be able to track that fast. While outsiders cannot trace the coins through the mixer, the mixer operators know which inputs were eventually sent to which outputs. They only need to record that information and pass it to law enforcement. The detectives can then skip over the mixing mess and continue tracing from the output.
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Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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Slaxt
Sr. Member
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Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Gone......
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March 20, 2015, 01:12:32 AM |
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Anybody know of evidence these funds have been dumped? I figure the $40 price drop the last day or so is either because the Evolution stash was dumped, or people rushed to sell in expectation it would be dumped, and caused a panic-dump instead.
It seems unlikely that the thieves will try to sell the stolen coins directly on an exchange. (Wasn't there a case of an exchange freezing and returning cryptocoins that had been stolen and deposited there by the thief?) The thieves could swap those coins off-exchange with some large criminal mafia; say 5 stolen coins for 1 "clean" coin. The mafia could keep the coins until they "cooled off", or use them for other criminal trades. Meanwhile the thieves could sell the clean coins on the exchanges, and withdraw the cash to legit bank accounts --- and no one would be able to connect that money to the theft. Thieves probably use mixers, there are much smaller expenses to get hard to trace coins in return. For such a large amount like 130K BTC they will probably have to split in smaller batches before they send it to mixers, no mixer has big enough volume for the coins to be untraceable. Isn't it possible for a mixer to identify stolen coins once deposited and "seize" the coins temporarily to return them to the rightful owner? I don't think any mixer would want to give a thief clean coins and get dirty coins in return. It will ruin their name and make them equally as bad if they know they mixed stolen coins just to scoop up a good fee. You would think that but the fact that they clean drug dealers and takers coins in an attempt to help them cover their tracks makes me believe they would not care if the coins were stolen or not i maybe wrong of course but i doubt it. If anything they would probably keep the coins them self and that would be the second theft of coins, 'theory' more than likely just clean them for them.. OP that is a well put together post with all the information needed, awesome to see that much effort has gone into it thanks
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TC is the worse thing to happen to default, needs to open his eyes and not jump to conclusions, not everyone lies!!! Anyway as promised I have left, pass word changed to long random which I will forget like that plonker who ruined a perfectly fine account.
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HR
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Merit: 1011
Transparency & Integrity
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March 31, 2015, 09:53:02 AM |
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It's happened again, and, once again, most likely an inside job. https://www.allcrypt.com/sitedown.html
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dscotese
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May 04, 2015, 12:09:32 AM |
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If any victim of a heist has offered a reward for any information leading to any recovery of the stolen bitcoins, that information would be useful. Such an offer of reward would normally be avoided by those heists which are inside jobs. I can't believe they were ALL inside jobs, but I've never heard of a reward being offered.
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Amitabh S
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June 18, 2015, 04:29:55 PM |
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https://blockchain.info/address/1GioJwcuUB6Jwn88nbnfzWrF1pAKnXU3nt0.01 bitcoins lost permanently I was playing around with bitcoinj+multisigs and the coins somehow got transferred here (destination was supposed to be a multisig address). As of now I have no idea what key this address belongs to. So the coins are effectively lost.
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edric
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June 18, 2015, 04:52:40 PM |
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Hats-off to the author who have put in so much of effort in organizing and presenting so valuable data to us. My observation, most of the cases involves exploiting the loopholes of these system (ofcourse with manual interference). Also, I observed the amount is getting lower and lower with time. Is it due to increase in security?
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neutraLTC
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June 19, 2015, 10:07:44 AM Last edit: June 19, 2015, 10:18:47 AM by neutraLTC |
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I suggest you use BlockTrail's Multi-Sig security, it's much more efficient as one key is held by us, one is downloaded as a PDF (so you can print and store, or whatever) and the other by you. You can also set limits to the amount of bitcoins that can be withdrawn, adding an extra layer of security.
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Argwai96
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Merit: 1000
Thug for life!
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June 19, 2015, 02:56:39 PM |
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I suggest you use BlockTrail's Multi-Sig security, it's much more efficient as one key is held by us, one is downloaded as a PDF (so you can print and store, or whatever) and the other by you. You can also set limits to the amount of bitcoins that can be withdrawn, adding an extra layer of security. I have been looking at blocktrail this past few days and they offert pretty cool stuff, theformer founder of send chat is now part of blocktrail alejandro de la torre, every should check them out.
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bitnanigans
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
June 20, 2015, 01:51:03 PM |
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This doesn't seem to cover the Evolution darknet market exit scam.
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ammy009
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June 21, 2015, 12:50:45 PM |
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this list doesn't include bitcoin-24.com ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif) I have lost 60% of my total coins...... ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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roadbits
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August 01, 2015, 02:23:27 AM |
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Very interesting, not something people like to see but important information. Its scary to consider that these coins may represent a substantial percentage of the active bitcoin market
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Tstar
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Decentralized Asset Management Platform
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August 25, 2015, 06:52:15 AM |
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Is scrypt.cc included in this thread ,it is the biggest ponzi as far as i know and its cold wallet has an average amount of 1500 + coins and its still running and increasing the coins daily with the help of FANBOYS.
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Swordsoffreedom
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Activity: 2870
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
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August 25, 2015, 11:14:00 AM |
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Is scrypt.cc included in this thread ,it is the biggest ponzi as far as i know and its cold wallet has an average amount of 1500 + coins and its still running and increasing the coins daily with the help of FANBOYS.
Ponzi scams by their nature tend not to be included as they are considered voluntary Their are exceptions such as Pirateat40 with his Bitcoin Savings and Investment Trust but generally until the coins are stolen it's not counted.
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