Mt. Gox's final impact on BTC...

[Jr65]

This is verbatim from "The Associated Press" regarding Mt. Gox. "An administrator will try to sell the Company's assets and many creditors, including those that had Bitcoins with the exchange, are unlikely to get any money back." The 200k coins are assets of the Company, whether or not they have names attached to them. If the customers do not get any BTC/money back in the Bankruptcy proceeding, that suggests that there are a ton of creditors that are legally standing in line ahead of them. For this reason, I can only assume that the Japanese Bankruptcy Court will be forced to liquidate the 200k BTC in some way. Until I saw this article, I was under the impression that there would be enough Company assets to, at least, get some value back to customers. I doubt that creditors, that are lucky enough to get anything, will want their portions returned in anything but fiat. Let me just note that I am a BTC enthusiast on every level and I own my coins at an average price of approx. $495. Put another way, I'm on your side! I am just trying to present facts and interpret them the best way I can. The facts are the facts but my interpretation of them may be dead wrong. If so, help me better understand this dilemma . I'm still very new to BTC but I do know, with certainty, that it has survived a lot of of tough hits. In my mind, that means that BTC is here to stay and strong enough to dust off the inevitable and final impact of the Mt. Gox mess. All we can do, at this point, is wait and see what happens and hope that the Bankruptcy "administrator" educates him/herself on the BTC Market and spreads sales over an extended time. That approach would get creditors their maximum return and mitigate damage to the BTC community. Best regards. Jr65     

[Wilhelm]

If they sell 200k they are not going to do this through an exchange using a market order.
It's far easier to sell 10K or 50K chunks of bitcoin to buyers at 80% market price or something.

[dreamspark]

If they sell 200k they are not going to do this through an exchange using a market order.
It's far easier to sell 10K or 50K chunks of bitcoin to buyers at 80% market price or something.

Agree but that doesn't stop those people dumping them for instant 20% profit.

[Wilhelm]

If they sell 200k they are not going to do this through an exchange using a market order.
It's far easier to sell 10K or 50K chunks of bitcoin to buyers at 80% market price or something.

Agree but that doesn't stop those people dumping them for instant 20% profit.

Welll ehhhh ..... Sell 10K or 50K instantly you will lose more then 20%.
If a curator wants to get a quick resolve then he must sell for a price that will sell instantly. He/She does not have the time to sell them him/herself.
Selling 200K for the last price will never be done so the price must be <100% current price.

Also why would you assume whales would directly dump them?
A lot of startups like Winklevoss, secondmarket, etc. want those coins so they can make stocks out of them.
Probably governments secretly want bitcoins because they want power over people.

[dreamspark]

If they sell 200k they are not going to do this through an exchange using a market order.
It's far easier to sell 10K or 50K chunks of bitcoin to buyers at 80% market price or something.

Agree but that doesn't stop those people dumping them for instant 20% profit.

Welll ehhhh ..... Sell 10K or 50K instantly you will lose more then 20%.

Also why would you assume whales would directly dump them?
A lot of startups like Winklevoss, secondmarket, etc. want those coins so they can make stocks out of them.
Probably governments secretly want bitcoins because they want power over people.

I didn't say instantly dump them as in market sell but dump them over the course of a few days.

Lots of reasons such as instant guaranteed profit, the general drop in the market would mean you could buy the majority of them back.

Why would you assume that wouldn't be the case?

Taking your theory then where selling 10k would drop the price 20% only 5% of those coins need to find there way to market for the price to drop and that number heading to general exchanges is very likely.

They're all theories and we won't know exactly what happens for quite a while I'd imagine but to think that 200k coins suddenly being out in the wild is not something that could drop the price is a bit naive.

[NationOwnedCCNow]

How fking sick is this.. if they have "found" the "missing" bitcoins, just hand them out! They still have the account data and all they need. Selling the bitcoins is bullshit. Those who held Fiat at their account should get fiat if possible, those who held bitcoin should get bitcoin if possible, isn't it that simple really?  


What is Japanese states and banks take on bitcoin and cryptocurrencies?

[Flomess]

This is getting more and more silly, why didn't they just bankrupt and shout up for the rest of their lifes?

[Wilhelm]

If they sell 200k they are not going to do this through an exchange using a market order.
It's far easier to sell 10K or 50K chunks of bitcoin to buyers at 80% market price or something.

Agree but that doesn't stop those people dumping them for instant 20% profit.

Welll ehhhh ..... Sell 10K or 50K instantly you will lose more then 20%.

Also why would you assume whales would directly dump them?
A lot of startups like Winklevoss, secondmarket, etc. want those coins so they can make stocks out of them.
Probably governments secretly want bitcoins because they want power over people.

I didn't say instantly dump them as in market sell but dump them over the course of a few days.

Lots of reasons such as instant guaranteed profit, the general drop in the market would mean you could buy the majority of them back.

Why would you assume that wouldn't be the case?

Taking your theory then where selling 10k would drop the price 20% only 5% of those coins need to find there way to market for the price to drop and that number heading to general exchanges is very likely.

They're all theories and we won't know exactly what happens for quite a while I'd imagine but to think that 200k coins suddenly being out in the wild is not something that could drop the price is a bit naive.

I do think that there will be some dumping of the coins by weak hands, I don't think it will effect the price that much.

Looking at their incentives it is obvious in my opinition
 - Curator wants to get rid of the coins quick and it's not his money so sell with a loss.
 - The buyer gets cheap coins and has the time to sell it slowly (if he doesn't hodl). Sell it too fast and bitcoin goes into the shitter.

The market might be going sideways for a while.

[dreamspark]

How fking sick is this.. if they have "found" the "missing" bitcoins, just hand them out! They still have the account data and all they need. Selling the bitcoins is bullshit. Those who held Fiat at their account should get fiat if possible, those who held bitcoin should get bitcoin if possible, isn't it that simple really?  


What is Japanese states and banks take on bitcoin and cryptocurrencies?

Its not simple for a number of reasons one being they didn't "find" them all.

Where do you think the fiat to pay people who had fiat in their accounts is going to come from? Furthermore do you really think a Japanese liquidator is going to pay people back in Bitcoin ?

[NationOwnedCCNow]

How fking sick is this.. if they have "found" the "missing" bitcoins, just hand them out! They still have the account data and all they need. Selling the bitcoins is bullshit. Those who held Fiat at their account should get fiat if possible, those who held bitcoin should get bitcoin if possible, isn't it that simple really?  


What is Japanese states and banks take on bitcoin and cryptocurrencies?

Its not simple for a number of reasons one being they didn't "find" them all.

Where do you think the fiat to pay people who had fiat in their accounts is going to come from? Furthermore do you really think a Japanese liquidator is going to pay people back in Bitcoin ?

Well it could easily be Distributed eavenly. If they lost 400,000 and found 200,000 why not just repay 50% of everybodies innitial holdings? If People lost fiat or BTC doesn't matter they could easily calculate the value and just pay it out.

[dreamspark]

If they sell 200k they are not going to do this through an exchange using a market order.
It's far easier to sell 10K or 50K chunks of bitcoin to buyers at 80% market price or something.

Agree but that doesn't stop those people dumping them for instant 20% profit.

Welll ehhhh ..... Sell 10K or 50K instantly you will lose more then 20%.

Also why would you assume whales would directly dump them?
A lot of startups like Winklevoss, secondmarket, etc. want those coins so they can make stocks out of them.
Probably governments secretly want bitcoins because they want power over people.

I didn't say instantly dump them as in market sell but dump them over the course of a few days.

Lots of reasons such as instant guaranteed profit, the general drop in the market would mean you could buy the majority of them back.

Why would you assume that wouldn't be the case?

Taking your theory then where selling 10k would drop the price 20% only 5% of those coins need to find there way to market for the price to drop and that number heading to general exchanges is very likely.

They're all theories and we won't know exactly what happens for quite a while I'd imagine but to think that 200k coins suddenly being out in the wild is not something that could drop the price is a bit naive.

I do think that there will be some dumping of the coins by weak hands, I don't think it will effect the price that much.

Looking at their incentives it is obvious in my opinition
 - Curator wants to get rid of the coins quick and it's not his money so sell with a loss.
 - The buyer gets cheap coins and has the time to sell it slowly (if he doesn't hodl). Sell it too fast and bitcoin goes into the shitter.

The market might be going sideways for a while.

The bottom line is as always supply and demand. The current price is based on the current supply and demand, increase the supply and if demand doesn't increase in line with it the price goes down, its that simple really.

[Wilhelm]

This is getting more and more silly, why didn't they just bankrupt and shout up for the rest of their lifes?

I think in Japan it is not that easy.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z6ffm/japanese_bankruptcy_law_explained/

It would be real easy if you could start a company, let it go down the shitter and walk away wouldn't it....

[dreamspark]

How fking sick is this.. if they have "found" the "missing" bitcoins, just hand them out! They still have the account data and all they need. Selling the bitcoins is bullshit. Those who held Fiat at their account should get fiat if possible, those who held bitcoin should get bitcoin if possible, isn't it that simple really?  


What is Japanese states and banks take on bitcoin and cryptocurrencies?

Its not simple for a number of reasons one being they didn't "find" them all.

Where do you think the fiat to pay people who had fiat in their accounts is going to come from? Furthermore do you really think a Japanese liquidator is going to pay people back in Bitcoin ?

Well it could easily be Distributed eavenly. If they lost 400,000 and found 200,000 why not just repay 50% of everybodies innitial holdings? If People lost fiat or BTC doesn't matter they could easily calculate the value and just pay it out.

Its been discussed ad nauseam but one of the reasons is to do with Bitcoin not being legal currency as well as the fact they have huge fiat debts that they must cover as well. Bankruptcy is messy at the best of times but when assets are in a form that most people don't even understand, let alone are able to use and legally guarantee they are going to the right recipient it gets even messier. I don't claim to be an expert but if you want to learn more about the reasons its going like this as well as other questions you may have head over to the #mtgox-talk irc channel.

[pinksheep]

how soon do you think they'll be selling them?

[dreamspark]

how soon do you think they'll be selling them?

Bankruptcy can take ages, it wouldn't surprise me if we were talking a few years.

[knightcoin]

[NationOwnedCCNow]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kYEDeAN0J24/TyRmoQiiCbI/AAAAAAAAbOE/lMEuIOGQSUw/s1600/tumblr_lncsdjuw4I1qctowyo1_500.gif

Wtf is that? They tested nukes on dinosaurs? How is that even possible, isnt there like.. a 500 year time-span difference!? 

[Teppino]

I guess it means "extinction event"

[knightcoin]

They're zillas .. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilla_(Toho) ) I guess  

but yep, sounds like JP authorities rulez now

[bryant.coleman]

Talking about Mt. Gox's final impact on BTC, I have to warn that from now on Bitcoin exchanges will find it extremely difficult to deal with the banks. Mt Gox had accounts with some of the Japanese banks, and therefore these banks have to answer to the criminal investigations now. This is going to affect Bitcoin exchanges really bad, as the banks are well connected world wide.