Is the West gearing up to invade Russia once again?

[bryant.coleman]

^^^ The West has been trying to overthrow Putin for almost a decade now, so far unsuccessfully. They want a weak leader to become the president of Russia (someone like Boris Yeltsin), so that they could control him.

[Balthazar]

Putin wasn't head of state in 2008. So, this pic looks strange for me. It seems that somebody suffer from putinphobia, at the terminal stage.

[deisik]

Putin wasn't head of state in 2008. So, this pic looks strange for me. It seems that somebody suffer from putinphobia, at the terminal stage.

In 2008 he was a "national leader"! Do you remember that leaked video where Medvedev tells Obama to pass Obama's words to Vladimir?

[bryant.coleman]

Putin wasn't head of state in 2008. So, this pic looks strange for me. It seems that somebody suffer from putinphobia, at the terminal stage.

Although Dmitry Medvedev was the president, Putin was more or less heading the state. Officially he was the Prime Minister, but still he had more powers than Medvedev. So this does not surprise me by much.

[Balthazar]

Putin wasn't head of state in 2008. So, this pic looks strange for me. It seems that somebody suffer from putinphobia, at the terminal stage.

Although Dmitry Medvedev was the president, Putin was more or less heading the state. Officially he was the Prime Minister, but still he had more powers than Medvedev. So this does not surprise me by much.

That's not quite right. Medvedev have made some really strange or even foolish decisions during his presidential term, so he's definetely not a puppet.

Putin wasn't head of state in 2008. So, this pic looks strange for me. It seems that somebody suffer from putinphobia, at the terminal stage.

In 2008 he was a "national leader"! Do you remember that leaked video where Medvedev tells Obama to pass Obama's words to Vladimir...

RF is a mixed republic. Unlike presidential republic like USA, prime minister, president and the parliament have additional set of privileges to control each other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-presidential_system

[spazzdla]

None of the nuclear powers can be invaded. Intervening in Ukraine is one thing and invading Russia is another. If the UK and US send their troops to Ukraine, it will not necessarily start the WW3. On the other hand, if they send their troops to invade Russia, it will definitely signal the start of WW3 and MAD. Russia will definitely use some of its 10,000 nuclear war heads and half the world will turn to radio-active waste land.

This, anyone that thinks differently should refrain from speaking about anything.  You cannot invade a nuclear power, you just cannot.

[deisik]

Putin wasn't head of state in 2008. So, this pic looks strange for me. It seems that somebody suffer from putinphobia, at the terminal stage.

In 2008 he was a "national leader"! Do you remember that leaked video where Medvedev tells Obama to pass Obama's words to Vladimir...

RF is a mixed republic. Unlike presidential republic like USA, prime minister, president and the parliament have additional set of privileges to control each other.

Do you really believe in what you say?

Medvedev did actually take strange steps during his presidency (like changing time zones), but they were just not important. I know you could say about the war with Georgia in 2008, but the coming warfare had not been a secret, and I guess the decision to send troops to Georgia after an attack on Russian peace-keepers had been taken long before this attack actually happened...

[Nemo1024]

The reason why I started this thread, was to remind people of some historic events and the surge of russophobia that usually came before military action against Russia. (Those who didn't, please, read the OP post.) I think we should beware of such signals and not forget them. Those who forget the history are destined to step on the same rakes.


Now, on to another small historical tour. This time to 1854, when the Crimean War began with the invasion by French and British troops. The following is a translation from http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B0#.D0.92.D0.BE.D0.B9.D0.BD.D0.B0_.D0.B8_.D0.BF.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.BF.D0.B0.D0.B3.D0.B0.D0.BD.D0.B4.D0.B0

A few years before the Crimean War (in 1848), Karl Marx, who himself actively published own works in Western press, wrote that for a German newspaper to save liberal reputation, it was necessary to "timely to show hatred for all Russian".

Engels in several articles in the British press published in the March-April 1853, accused Russia of an intention to capture Constantinople, although it was well known that the Russian ultimatum of February 1853 contained no territorial claims against Turkey. In another article (April 1853), Marx and Engels blamed Serbs for not wanting to read books printed with Latin letters in their own language in the West, and read only the books in the Cyrillic alphabet, printed in Russia; and rejoiced that an "anti-Russian Progressive Party" finally appeared in Serbia.

[ It is ironic (or maybe not, given Lenin's own hatred for all that is Russian, that Marx' and Engels' works became the cornerstone books for the Soviet Union' communism - what better way to bestow harm on Russian people.) ]

In the same 1853 the British liberal newspaper Daily News, assured its readers that Christians in the Ottoman Empire enjoyed greater religious freedom than in the Russian Orthodox and Catholic Austria.

In 1854 the London "Times" wrote: "It would be good to bring Russia back to the ploughing of internal land, to drive the Muscovites deep into the forests and steppes." In the same year D.Rassel, leader of the House of Commons and the head of the Liberal Party, said: "We have to pry the bear's teeth ... While his fleet and naval arsenal on the Black Sea is not destroyed, Constantinople will not be safe and there will not be any peace in Europe"

[ Sounds familiar, eh? ]

Russian poet Fyodor Tyutchev wrote the following as a response to all this:

Long ago was it possible to foresee that this rabid hatred against Russia that with each passing year was more and more kindled in the West, will once escape from the leash. This moment is upon us ... This is the moment when entire West came to show his denial of Russia and block her path to the future.

And just a thought...
1854 - Fierce battles to keep Crimea.
1944, 90 years later - fierce battles to free Crimea from German occupation.
1954, 10 years later - Khrusjov just hands Crimea over without asking Russia.
2014, 60 years later, Crimea is returned, without battles this time (unless NATO is planning something).

[Balthazar]

Do you really believe in what you say?

Of course, because I know how these things are working. This is the reason why it's vitally important for Putin to have strong presence of his party in the parliament.

Medvedev did actually take strange steps during his presidency (like changing time zones), but they were just not important.

You don't see a forest behind the trees. Time zones change was just a veil to drive public's attention from a real epic failure. Medvedev had agreed to sign a treaty with Norway, giving a disputed territory to their jurisdiction. He had thrown more than 4 years of MFA work into the trash can, and more than $30 billion were lost.

[Nemo1024]

You don't see a forest behind the trees. Time zones change was just a veil to drive public's attention from a real epic failure. Medvedev had agreed to sign a treaty with Norway, giving a disputed territory to their jurisdiction. He had thrown more than 4 years of MFA work into the trash can, and more than $30 billion were lost.

It's not seen as a failure in Norway.
Besides, not the whole disputed territory was given away, it was divided 50-50. In my view the dispute was rather silly to begin with.
On the plus side, both countries can finally start prospecting the area, improvement in border cooperation, trade, and visa-free movement across border for people living there.

[deisik]

Do you really believe in what you say?

Of course, because I know how these things are working. This is the reason why it's vitally important for Putin to have strong presence of his party in the parliament.

Medvedev did actually take strange steps during his presidency (like changing time zones), but they were just not important.

You don't see a forest behind the trees. Time zones change was just a veil to drive public's attention from a real epic failure. Medvedev had agreed to sign a treaty with Norway, giving a disputed territory to their jurisdiction. He had thrown more than 4 years of MFA work into the trash can, and more than $30 billion were lost.

I'm not familiar with this story, so can't tell for myself, but nevertheless I still reckon that Medvedev was not free and independent in his decisions and actions (read Putin was behind them), save for some insignificant acts indeed that were primarily aimed at hiding Putin's guiding hand or taking blame off him...

May I tell that it is you who doesn't see the forest behind the trees?

[Nemo1024]

‘Bon appétit,’ Putin tells G7 leaders dishing the dirt on Russia in Brussels
http://rt.com/news/163988-putin-summit-g7-obama/

It's mostly all the usual stuff. Russia is bad, Russia must do what we say, etc. etc.

“First, the status quo is unacceptable. The continuing destabilization of eastern Ukraine must stop,” Cameron told a news conference at the end of the summit.

Second, he went on, Putin must recognize the May 25 election of Ukraine’s president, Petro Poroshenko, as legitimate.

“He must stop arms crossing the border into Ukraine. He must cease Russian support for separatist groups,” Cameron stated, providing, however, no evidence for the accusations.

What rattled me the most was this coming from Obama:

“Whenever our two nations stand together, it can leave a world that is more secure and more prosperous and more just, and we will be reminded of that again tomorrow in Normandy,” Obama said.

“On that day, like so many others, American and British troops stood together and fought valiantly alongside our allies. They didn't just help to win the war, they helped to turn the tide of human history and are the reason that we can stand here today in a free Europe and with the freedoms that our nations enjoy,” the US President said.

Cameron added that their countries “stood like two rocks of freedom and democracy in the face of Nazi tyranny”. He said that “thousands of young British and American soldiers, with their Canadian and Free French counterparts, were preparing to cross the Channel in the greatest liberation force that the world has ever known”.

Yes. In 1944. And Soviet Union contribution of 25 million is not even mentioned in a by-sentence...

A couple of reader comments:

Evžen Jindra 05.06.2014 20:46

Just comparison, leaving thinking to readers.
Russia has to acknowledge Poroshenko, voted just in part of Ukraine, as rightful president of Ukraine.
West don't acknowledge President Assad, voted by attending 78% of voters in Syria elections.
West can send arms to Al-Kaida fanatics to murder citizens of Syria, Russia is forbidden to send arms to defend russian speaking citizens of Ukraine.

...

theodore grapsas 05.06.2014 20:52

I cannot recall a world leader "Obama" and his cronies using such hostile aggressive language towards another leader "Putin" with threats of severe punishment and sanctions IF HE DOES NOT PROVE to OBEY AND FOLLOW the appropriate orders in Ukraine. Are these people serious?? Are they top Diplomats?? Are they world leaders?? unable to follow standard rules of behaviour other than blackmail and threats??OR is it to FORCE Mr Putin to do the unthinkable??

[bryant.coleman]

See how big firms and corporations are gaining from the Ukrainian conflict.

Pimco Using Ukraine Turmoil to Buy Cheap Russian Stocks

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-05/pimco-using-ukraine-turmoil-to-buy-cheap-russian-stocks.html

[watcoin]

See how big firms and corporations are gaining from the Ukrainian conflict.

Pimco Using Ukraine Turmoil to Buy Cheap Russian Stocks

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-05/pimco-using-ukraine-turmoil-to-buy-cheap-russian-stocks.html

Because they are not loyal to a nation. They are loyal to profit by any means. That is how mutant capitalism works.

[deisik]

See how big firms and corporations are gaining from the Ukrainian conflict.

Pimco Using Ukraine Turmoil to Buy Cheap Russian Stocks

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-05/pimco-using-ukraine-turmoil-to-buy-cheap-russian-stocks.html

Because they are not loyal to a nation. They are loyal to profit by any means. That is how mutant capitalism works.

Corporations are created for making profits. Moral cannot be applied to them as such. Any capitalism works this way (otherwise it is not capitalism)... 

[niothor]

See how big firms and corporations are gaining from the Ukrainian conflict.

Pimco Using Ukraine Turmoil to Buy Cheap Russian Stocks

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-05/pimco-using-ukraine-turmoil-to-buy-cheap-russian-stocks.html

Because they are not loyal to a nation. They are loyal to profit by any means. That is how mutant capitalism works.

Loyalty will never feed you nor it will give money to sustain your family.
Why should people on the other side of the globe care about a country when it's their wealth at stake?

If the people in charge in that company structure don't make the best investments and return they will be the ones without a job

[watcoin]

See how big firms and corporations are gaining from the Ukrainian conflict.

Pimco Using Ukraine Turmoil to Buy Cheap Russian Stocks

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-05/pimco-using-ukraine-turmoil-to-buy-cheap-russian-stocks.html

Because they are not loyal to a nation. They are loyal to profit by any means. That is how mutant capitalism works.

Corporations are created for making profits. Moral cannot be applied to them as such. Any capitalism works this way (otherwise it is not capitalism)... 

But you do not understand the concept of mutant capitalism aka crony capitalism. These 'too big to jail' firms can do whatever in the hell that they want, knowing that Federal tax dollars will bail them out. When the markets crashed in 2008 and Paulson used his fear tactics to get them all bailed out for their fraud, Obama joined in and made it even better for them.

Max Keiser has labeled them Financial Terrorists and that they are. These giant parasites have done more damage to humanity that 100 Bin Ladens could.  They are the reason for global unrest, war, arms races, etc. They would eat themselves if they could make a buck at it.

[watcoin]

See how big firms and corporations are gaining from the Ukrainian conflict.

Pimco Using Ukraine Turmoil to Buy Cheap Russian Stocks

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-05/pimco-using-ukraine-turmoil-to-buy-cheap-russian-stocks.html

Because they are not loyal to a nation. They are loyal to profit by any means. That is how mutant capitalism works.

Loyalty will never feed you nor it will give money to sustain your family.
Why should people on the other side of the globe care about a country when it's their wealth at stake?

If the people in charge in that company structure don't make the best investments and return they will be the ones without a job

If they are big enough they will just steal what they want with the brute force of the US Military Industrial Complex.

[Balthazar]

See how big firms and corporations are gaining from the Ukrainian conflict.

Pimco Using Ukraine Turmoil to Buy Cheap Russian Stocks

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-05/pimco-using-ukraine-turmoil-to-buy-cheap-russian-stocks.html

Because they are not loyal to a nation. They are loyal to profit by any means. That is how mutant capitalism works.

Corporations are created for making profits. Moral cannot be applied to them as such. Any capitalism works this way (otherwise it is not capitalism)...  

That's not quite right. There are many variations of capitalism... Mercantilism, Protectionism, State capitalism, Free Market capitalism, Rhine capitalism, Corporate capitalism, Crony capitalism and so on.

[watcoin]

very recent video of current scamming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO_zgECoYmk