America Should Open its Borders?

[zolace]

current U.S. law, it is illegal for a foreigner to work for a willing American employer or rent from a willing American landlord without government permission.  For most foreigners, this permission is impossible to obtain.  As a result, hundreds of millions who want to move here are stuck in their birth countries.  Most would-be immigrants are desperately poor, but could easily work their way out of poverty if they were here.  I say we should open them up what ya think?

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[sana8410]

wow seems that your topic zolace, no one wants to open there borders on bitcointalk.  I think people are afraid to open up there borders.  D

[counter]

I think the law needs to be followed.  This borders are there for a reason.  I can't go other places if I don't follow the laws in place to get there legally.  How can you(OP) support breaking the law if it will have a negative effect on those that are in America legally?  Don't think your looking at this matter from all angles.  I do appreciate the discussion you started even though we don't agree.

[dank]

The world should open it's borders.  We are all one.

[bryant.coleman]

Why anyone want to immigrate to the US? I think if we really work hard, then we can achieve great heights, irrespective of where we live. But if you want to take advantage of the generous welfare systems in the US / EU, then I have to warn you that the welfare state system is already in the brink of collapse. Better stay in your home nation, and do some hard work.

[Rigon]

No I do not think we should open our borders. There is enough crime as there is and I think opening our boarders will make it a whold lot worse.

[hilariousandco]

No I do not think we should open our borders. There is enough crime as there is and I think opening our boarders will make it a whold lot worse.

Because immigrants only create more crime? Why don't you kick all the criminals and lazy bums out and let in intelligent and hardworking immigrants to take their place instead? Now that would be an interesting social experiment.

[Wilikon]

current U.S. law, it is illegal for a foreigner to work for a willing American employer or rent from a willing American landlord without government permission.  For most foreigners, this permission is impossible to obtain.  As a result, hundreds of millions who want to move here are stuck in their birth countries.  Most would-be immigrants are desperately poor, but could easily work their way out of poverty if they were here.  I say we should open them up what ya think?

I wish I knew more about Mexican laws and how they deal with a massive illegal immigration crossing their territory. Hold on. I think I do...


Mexico: the train of nightmares

[bryant.coleman]

No I do not think we should open our borders. There is enough crime as there is and I think opening our boarders will make it a whold lot worse.

Agreed. In most of the countries in the developed world, a majority of the crimes are committed by the recent immigrants.

A perfect example here:

http://europenews.dk/en/node/63520

Back in May it was reported that every rape assault in the city of Oslo in the last five years had been committed by a person with a "non-Western” background – a Norwegian euphemism for Muslim. Now it turns out that there have already been twice as many rape assaults in Oslo so far this year as there were in all of 2010.

[hilariousandco]

No I do not think we should open our borders. There is enough crime as there is and I think opening our boarders will make it a whold lot worse.

Agreed. In most of the countries in the developed world, a majority of the crimes are committed by the recent immigrants.

A perfect example here:

http://europenews.dk/en/node/63520

Back in May it was reported that every rape assault in the city of Oslo in the last five years had been committed by a person with a "non-Western” background – a Norwegian euphemism for Muslim. Now it turns out that there have already been twice as many rape assaults in Oslo so far this year as there were in all of 2010.

"In most of the countries in the developed world, a majority of the crimes are committed by the recent immigrants." Absolute bullshit and this is just the ignorant and incorrect rhetoric racists spew (but you're not a racist, right?). Do you have any official sources for these claims or figures, you know, ones that don't come from stuff you've just made up or from shoddy racist websites with a political agenda?

[minime]

all borders should be removed regardless which country

[beetcoin]

No I do not think we should open our borders. There is enough crime as there is and I think opening our boarders will make it a whold lot worse.

Agreed. In most of the countries in the developed world, a majority of the crimes are committed by the recent immigrants.

A perfect example here:

http://europenews.dk/en/node/63520

Back in May it was reported that every rape assault in the city of Oslo in the last five years had been committed by a person with a "non-Western” background – a Norwegian euphemism for Muslim. Now it turns out that there have already been twice as many rape assaults in Oslo so far this year as there were in all of 2010.

"In most of the countries in the developed world, a majority of the crimes are committed by the recent immigrants." Absolute bullshit and this is just the ignorant and incorrect rhetoric racists spew (but you're not a racist, right?). Do you have any official sources for these claims or figures, you know, ones that don't come from stuff you've just made up or from shoddy racist websites with a political agenda?

yeah that's just propaganda bullshit. if i were a new immigrant, the last thing i would want to do is fuck with the law. if that statistic were true, it's probably because immigrants have so much stacked against them that they get desperate.

[bryant.coleman]

yeah that's just propaganda bullshit. if i were a new immigrant, the last thing i would want to do is fuck with the law. if that statistic were true, it's probably because immigrants have so much stacked against them that they get desperate.

Stats prove otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

Japan: While foreigners from Africa are outnumbered by Japanese natives by 4551%, per capita Africans are responsible for 3.5 times as much crime as Japanese natives.

Denmark: According to the figures from Danmarks Statistik, crime rate among refugees and their descendants is 73% higher than for the male population average, even when taking into account their socioeconomic background.

Finland: A 2006 study found that the share of immigrants has a positive and significant impact on the crime rate, confirming that a larger share of immigrants is associated with a higher crime rate.

Germany: Immigrants in Germany are overrepresented in crime statistics. In Berlin, young male immigrants are three times more likely to commit violent crimes than their German peers. The crime rate of immigrants is at first glimpse about 5 times higher than that for Germans.

Greece: Official statistics show that immigrants are responsible for about half of the criminal activity in Greece.

Netherlands: Non-"white Dutch" youths are more likely to have contact with the police and be convicted of a serious crime than their "white Dutch" compatriots.

[Wilikon]

all borders should be removed regardless which country

Do you own a key to have access to where you live? Why is that? Do you need a password to have access to your email? Why is that?

[umair127]

all borders should be removed regardless which country

They cant do that cause then the govs will feel like they dont have control of traffic inflow of immigrants.  Plus then there will be more crime if that was to happen.  Imagine how happy Al qeda will be to plant themselves all over the world

[bryant.coleman]

Do you own a key to have access to where you live? Why is that? Do you need a password to have access to your email? Why is that?

Classic. One thing I have noticed recently. The people who are the most vocal about opening the borders of the US, most of them are firmly against opening the borders of their own nations. For example, the previous Mexican president Vicente Fox Quesada. Honduran and Salvadorean immigrants claim that it was during Fox's regime that the brutality against them increased the most.

[umair127]

Do you own a key to have access to where you live? Why is that? Do you need a password to have access to your email? Why is that?

Classic. One thing I have noticed recently. The people who are the most vocal about opening the borders of the US, most of them are firmly against opening the borders of their own nations. For example, the previous Mexican president Vicente Fox Quesada. Honduran and Salvadorean immigrants claim that it was during Fox's regime that the brutality against them increased the most.

It doesnt really matter who opens there borders your just opening pandora box allowing to much freedom of entry of people who you really dont all know.  Then this will also open a world for new diseases to be contracted far much easier also

[Wilikon]

Do you own a key to have access to where you live? Why is that? Do you need a password to have access to your email? Why is that?

Classic. One thing I have noticed recently. The people who are the most vocal about opening the borders of the US, most of them are firmly against opening the borders of their own nations. For example, the previous Mexican president Vicente Fox Quesada. Honduran and Salvadorean immigrants claim that it was during Fox's regime that the brutality against them increased the most.

This was true until around 2010, forever. I do not know the status now but:

"Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.
The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” violate Mexican law, are not “physically or mentally healthy” or lack the “necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/03/mexicos-illegals-laws-tougher-than-arizonas/?page=all

[bryant.coleman]

Another point I have to make is that, the Americans themselves are responsible for a part of the immigration problem. Birthright citizenship is such a stupid idea, and I don't think there is any other nation in the world which is having a similar law. This law has not only encouraged illegal immigration, but also put additional strain to the welfare system by encouraging the illegals to have a large number of children.

[Wilikon]

Another point I have to make is that, the Americans themselves are responsible for a part of the immigration problem. Birthright citizenship is such a stupid idea, and I don't think there is any other nation in the world which is having a similar law. This law has not only encouraged illegal immigration, but also put additional strain to the welfare system by encouraging the illegals to have a large number of children.

The Fourteenth Amendment was the answer to the Democrat slave owners from owning the children of "their property" and the children of the children of their property, in perpetuum... So it was not a stupid Amendment, even though it is being abused now by some heavy pregnant women doing some dangerous stuff just like the one in the video I linked.

[bryant.coleman]

The Fourteenth Amendment was the answer to the Democrat slave owners from owning the children of "their property" and the children of the children of their property, in perpetuum... So it was not a stupid Amendment, even though it is being abused now by some heavy pregnant women doing some dangerous stuff just like the one in the video I linked.

Well.. if it was so, then the Fourteenth Amendment should have been repealed once slavery was abolished by Abraham Lincoln. Or the latest, after he defeated the Confederate States in the American Civil War.

[Kluge]

Federal government can do what it wants, but I admire sanctuary cities. I don't admire organizations looking to set up those seeking to come for welfare, but for those looking to work so much that they illegally hop the border at risk to their person and have to work under the table, I have nothing but respect for. Anyone looking to break a law with noble intent, I consider a hero, and it's a great world where we come together to help them "launder money" to their families.

[umair127]

Federal government can do what it wants, but I admire sanctuary cities. I don't admire organizations looking to set up those seeking to come for welfare, but for those looking to work so much that they illegally hop the border at risk to their person and have to work under the table, I have nothing but respect for. Anyone looking to break a law with noble intent, I consider a hero, and it's a great world where we come together to help them "launder money" to their families.

They always said the true americans are the ones who taken the ships acrooss the seas, got sick from doing it and came from across the ocean, those were the true americans, of course 1st is the native americans.

[Schleicher]

yeah that's just propaganda bullshit. if i were a new immigrant, the last thing i would want to do is fuck with the law. if that statistic were true, it's probably because immigrants have so much stacked against them that they get desperate.

Stats prove otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

Germany: Immigrants in Germany are overrepresented in crime statistics. In Berlin, young male immigrants are three times more likely to commit violent crimes than their German peers. The crime rate of immigrants is at first glimpse about 5 times higher than that for Germans.

Yeah. 2012 statistics from germany:
Sex crimes: 18% non-germans
Violent crimes: 25% non-germans
Theft: 26% non-germans
Drug crimes: 20% non-germans

[LostDutchman]

current U.S. law, it is illegal for a foreigner to work for a willing American employer or rent from a willing American landlord without government permission.  For most foreigners, this permission is impossible to obtain.  As a result, hundreds of millions who want to move here are stuck in their birth countries.  Most would-be immigrants are desperately poor, but could easily work their way out of poverty if they were here.  I say we should open them up what ya think?

I think you've lost your mind.

[bryant.coleman]

Yeah. 2012 statistics from germany:
Sex crimes: 18% non-germans
Violent crimes: 25% non-germans
Theft: 26% non-germans
Drug crimes: 20% non-germans

Still much better than the Nordic states. In Norway and Sweden, more than 90% of the violent crimes are perpetrated by the non-Swedes. The German migration rules are a little more tougher than those in Norway and Sweden.

[bryant.coleman]

Feds reject California IDs for illegal immigrants

http://rt.com/usa/157708-feds-reject-license-california-immigrants

As California prepares to hand out drivers’ licenses to illegal immigrants with permission to stay in the United States, the state suffered a setback recently when the federal government rejected its latest design. The debate revolves around making the licenses unique enough to be distinguished from regular drivers’ licenses while, at the same time, ensuring they're not so different that cardholders would suffer from discrimination for using one.

[practicaldreamer]

all borders should be removed regardless which country

The spirit of Bitcoin 

I agree to a degree - citizen of the world etc.

But - the EU has a free flow of labour/open borders - and the real benefactor is big business.

[Wilikon]

all borders should be removed regardless which country

The spirit of Bitcoin 

I agree to a degree - citizen of the world etc.

But - the EU has a free flow of labour/open borders - and the real benefactor is big business.

And yet the "Spirit of Bitcoin" can only exist thanks to the highly secured walls of its blockchain... No open borders for the ghost in the machine...

[Kluge]

all borders should be removed regardless which country

The spirit of Bitcoin 

I agree to a degree - citizen of the world etc.

But - the EU has a free flow of labour/open borders - and the real benefactor is big business.

And yet the "Spirit of Bitcoin" can only exist thanks to the highly secured walls of its blockchain... No open borders for the ghost in the machine...

Sure, and that's why Silk Road was such a superior alternative to the shady existence of the drug market as-is, both for law enforcement and those directly involved in drug production, distribution, and consumption: you don't have to meet a bunch of weirdos on the street or in their apartment who're wondering whether or not you're about to arrest or shoot them. It's a superior way to interact, whether being "hidden" is stigmatized or not.

Forget the walls and laws, and buy lots of land and a long driveway.

[Wilikon]

all borders should be removed regardless which country

The spirit of Bitcoin 

I agree to a degree - citizen of the world etc.

But - the EU has a free flow of labour/open borders - and the real benefactor is big business.

And yet the "Spirit of Bitcoin" can only exist thanks to the highly secured walls of its blockchain... No open borders for the ghost in the machine...

Sure, and that's why Silk Road was such a superior alternative to the shady existence of the drug market as-is, both for law enforcement and those directly involved in drug production, distribution, and consumption: you don't have to meet a bunch of weirdos on the street or in their apartment who're wondering whether or not you're about to arrest or shoot them. It's a superior way to interact, whether being "hidden" is stigmatized or not.

Forget the walls and laws, and buy lots of land and a long driveway.

Everyone wants their own utopia. The problem is: everyone's utopia would be a nightmare to each other. The fabric of the universe itself does not have any "open borders". Animals create artificial doors and barriers to protect their young ones.

Once every single human will have access to free and lifetime personal and portable energy then the concept of borders, countries, need for work, need to travel to better and greener garden will cease to exist. Until then humans will need to migrate to places with more stable political societies, places with more natural resources, open markets, etc.

[hello_good_sir]

No-borders advocates are often hardcore libertarians or ancaps who are always talking about how great private property is and how all property ultimately derives from the "homestead principle".  Don't they see the contradiction?  Murray Rothbard did.  Yes, that Murray Rothbard, the hero of ancaps and libertarians everywhere.

Think about it for a moment.  You see that public library?  Right now the government has control of it but, according to ancap theory, the people own it, because governments can't legitimately own anything.  My ancestors built that library and my family has been using it for generations.  When immigrants move in and take over the library they are trampling on my property rights.  They dilute my ownership of the library, and they restrict my ability to enjoy it, effectively reducing my right to free association.  The same goes for the roads, the schools, etc...

Many immigrants are fine people but so what?  Grapefruit is a fine breakfast food - for those who like it - but I don't like grapefruit and don't eat it.  Why should I be forced to associate with people, simply because they are fine people?  And that's the good immigrants.  Many are not find people and many of the good ones have children who are not good.

[LostDutchman]

Utopians.

Eh.

[bryant.coleman]

Here, more news from Mexico:

Burdened by Illegal Immigration, Mexico Develops Border Patrol

https://www.numbersusa.com/news/burdened-illegal-immigration-mexico-develops-border-patrol