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Author Topic: Mount Doom  (Read 2652 times)
arepo
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this statement is false


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January 15, 2012, 03:42:18 AM
 #1

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ohfxw/update_mt_gox_steals_from_tor_users_now_i_can_not/

this isn't the first i've heard of this problem.

in mtgox's position, it is of utmost importance to maintain security, but also trustworthiness with the users of bitcoin willing to keep their coins in such a 'virtual wallet' -- ESPECIALLY after the scams in the past.

there needs to be an official correspondence with the MtGox team demanding a complete and binding user agreement detailing the conduct necessary for everyday users not to have to deal with these horror stories. i want to be able to trust MtGox but with this kind of news it's nearly impossible.

also, they need to fix their damned API and MtGoxlive feature... they make enough money from our trades. perhaps it is time that someone begin working on a new trading platform we can switch to so that these irresponsible self-appointed bitcoin police won't have a monopoly on our trades.

this sentence has fifteen words, seventy-four letters, four commas, one hyphen, and a period.
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Phinnaeus Gage
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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending


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January 15, 2012, 04:59:47 AM
 #2

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ohfxw/update_mt_gox_steals_from_tor_users_now_i_can_not/

this isn't the first i've heard of this problem.

in mtgox's position, it is of utmost importance to maintain security, but also trustworthiness with the users of bitcoin willing to keep their coins in such a 'virtual wallet' -- ESPECIALLY after the scams in the past.

there needs to be an official correspondence with the MtGox team demanding a complete and binding user agreement detailing the conduct necessary for everyday users not to have to deal with these horror stories. i want to be able to trust MtGox but with this kind of news it's nearly impossible.

also, they need to fix their damned API and MtGoxlive feature... they make enough money from our trades. perhaps it is time that someone begin working on a new trading platform we can switch to so that these irresponsible self-appointed bitcoin police won't have a monopoly on our trades.

You know what? This isn't the first time I've read about similar problems on this board. Quite frankly, it needs to end. If this house isn't in order, how the heck am I suppose to answer questions related to MtGox's business practices when I'm asked? I feel a need to go on a diatribe here, but opt to refrain and hold my pen. I'm not happy with this one iota. I do hope to read a reply from MtGox in regards to this issue. Thank you, in advance, MtGox.

~Bruno~
arepo
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this statement is false


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January 15, 2012, 05:21:31 AM
 #3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ohfxw/update_mt_gox_steals_from_tor_users_now_i_can_not/

this isn't the first i've heard of this problem.

in mtgox's position, it is of utmost importance to maintain security, but also trustworthiness with the users of bitcoin willing to keep their coins in such a 'virtual wallet' -- ESPECIALLY after the scams in the past.

there needs to be an official correspondence with the MtGox team demanding a complete and binding user agreement detailing the conduct necessary for everyday users not to have to deal with these horror stories. i want to be able to trust MtGox but with this kind of news it's nearly impossible.

also, they need to fix their damned API and MtGoxlive feature... they make enough money from our trades. perhaps it is time that someone begin working on a new trading platform we can switch to so that these irresponsible self-appointed bitcoin police won't have a monopoly on our trades.

You know what? This isn't the first time I've read about similar problems on this board. Quite frankly, it needs to end. If this house isn't in order, how the heck am I suppose to answer questions related to MtGox's business practices when I'm asked? I feel a need to go on a diatribe here, but opt to refrain and hold my pen. I'm not happy with this one iota. I do hope to read a reply from MtGox in regards to this issue. Thank you, in advance, MtGox.

~Bruno~


thank you. i've brought this up in BTC circles before and i feel like it's the elephant in the room. it is scary, and it could impact bitcoin adoption rates, prices, and even just reputation. but that's no excuse to sweep the dust under the carpet. this guy had 11 bitcoins in his account. i know we all have many, many more.

this sentence has fifteen words, seventy-four letters, four commas, one hyphen, and a period.
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January 15, 2012, 05:40:32 AM
 #4

I like that elephant analogy. I'm ready to call it a night, so if what you're about read hits you the wrong way, I can always blame it on being tired.

MtGox. You have 22.75 hours to rectify this situation mentioned in the OP.

~Bruno~
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January 15, 2012, 05:46:27 AM
 #5

this story sounds fishy to me.  i've moved way more money thru mtgox than this guy and i've NEVER had a problem.

stories like these always start coming out when the price rises.
arepo
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this statement is false


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January 15, 2012, 06:39:20 AM
 #6

this story sounds fishy to me.  i've moved way more money thru mtgox than this guy and i've NEVER had a problem.

stories like these always start coming out when the price rises.

do you connect to mtgox using TOR?

and FUD aside, why would you trust MtGox over bitcoin users?

this sentence has fifteen words, seventy-four letters, four commas, one hyphen, and a period.
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January 15, 2012, 09:53:55 AM
 #7

this story sounds fishy to me.  i've moved way more money thru mtgox than this guy and i've NEVER had a problem.

stories like these always start coming out when the price rises.

More stories now because more action now.

Do you have multiple accounts accessing from the same IP? Probably not, so you don't get frozen.

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January 15, 2012, 12:34:24 PM
 #8

Why the hell don't you just use a different exchange? Seriously why does this stupid complaint keep popping up again and again?

The reason why they make so much money is because 90% of all bitcoin users naively give them their business, and the reason why you keep having to put up with their shit is because nobody punishes them when they fuck up, but just patiently continues using their shit service instead of switching to a better exchange.

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January 15, 2012, 01:02:35 PM
 #9

No one uses the other exchanges because they're stale markets often $0.50 (or more) off the MtGox price. Apparently they were set up by clowns who thought they could throw together a site and then let the automation fill their coffers. If they want business then they will have to make markets in their exchanges. This means commit money to internal arbitrage with MtGox so that there is always a current market there.

I've signed up at a couple others and from time to time login and see what I could buy/sell at. And inevitably there's little volume and prices are way behind. If I had the money I'd keep balances and do arbitrage so that the price was always within the commission spread. But I don't. It seems odd that the exchange owners don't make markets but until they do that I don't see how they expect people to use them.

Current
MtGox - 6.75
btcexUSD - 6.19
btceUSD - 6.58
cryptoUSD - 6.88
intrsngUSD - 6.90
bitstampUSD - 7.15
vcxUSD - 6.55

hmmm. buy btcexUSD sell bitstampUSD. Except volume = 0. Sorry.

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January 15, 2012, 01:03:07 PM
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do you connect to mtgox using TOR?

and FUD aside, why would you trust MtGox over bitcoin users?

MtGox is sitting on a gold mine. Why would they blow it on purpose for a few 100 $?

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January 15, 2012, 03:27:02 PM
 #11

this story sounds fishy to me.  i've moved way more money thru mtgox than this guy and i've NEVER had a problem.

stories like these always start coming out when the price rises.

do you connect to mtgox using TOR?

and FUD aside, why would you trust MtGox over bitcoin users?

i trust Mark Karpeles WAY MORE than other bitcoin users.  why?  b/c he's moved millions thru his exchange many times over and has NEVER been proven to have stolen ANYONE's money. 

i've personally communicated with him via IRC multiple times over my acct and he's always been completely cooperative and went out of this way to help me. 

that bitcoiner with his 11 btc's hasn't stepped forward with any proof that he's been defrauded and until then Mark is innocent.
arepo
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this statement is false


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January 15, 2012, 04:28:19 PM
 #12


do you connect to mtgox using TOR?

and FUD aside, why would you trust MtGox over bitcoin users?

MtGox is sitting on a gold mine. Why would they blow it on purpose for a few 100 $?

i'm not talking about stealing money. im talking about setting precedents as bitcoin police. that cannot be allowed to happen. one exchange monopolizing the trade of bitcoin is a bad idea regardless of how benevolent our dictator might be.

this sentence has fifteen words, seventy-four letters, four commas, one hyphen, and a period.
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cypherdoc
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January 15, 2012, 04:37:51 PM
 #13

i appreciate your passion on this and your principles are correct.

its just that some of us here have been thru several iterations of this type of accusation since the beginning of the year.  the trolling was INTENSE in the Spring and Summer when prices were much higher.

i perceived there to be an coordinated agenda at work and fully expect it to reappear as we go higher.  just don't forget to be fair and unbiased.
arepo
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January 15, 2012, 04:43:49 PM
 #14

i appreciate the level-headedness. i, too, do not wish to spark a panic. you know me from the speculation forum and know i am long, and have no motives to push the price down. i am sincerely wondering what it would take to break mtgox's monopoly and establish functional alternatives. the issues with the existing ones are outlined above. what can we do?

this sentence has fifteen words, seventy-four letters, four commas, one hyphen, and a period.
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cypherdoc
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January 15, 2012, 05:00:48 PM
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If they want business then they will have to make markets in their exchanges. This means commit money to internal arbitrage with MtGox so that there is always a current market there.


this sounds like a good idea.  Bitcoinica seems to have capitalized on making mkts.  why won't someone else?
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January 15, 2012, 06:08:21 PM
 #16

I read and re-read that post, I'm not seeing how this isn't user error and ignorance.  Also not sure why anyone thinks of Mt Gox as an exchange to remain anonymous on.

"That is all I can say right now. I am taking a huge risk writing here but I do not want people to be trapped like I was and deposit money into Mt. Gox using TOR."

What in the hell does that even mean first time Silk Road user?   

Many discussions about this
http://www.reddit.com/r/onions/comments/m1315/is_it_necessary_to_use_tor_when_using_mtgox/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/o41ch/mt_gox_steals_from_tor_users_will_not_cancel_do/

Mt Gox responding to these problems on Twitter
https://twitter.com/#!/runasand/status/155613473668210690

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January 15, 2012, 06:34:44 PM
 #17

Folks,

Bitcoin exchanges such as MtGox offer a service that involves government-issued fiat currencies. If you want them to continue to offer this service, then grow up and realize that government rules apply, as well as some main-stream common sense: money laundering, tax evasion, and trading of illegal and stolen goods have no place there and will be dealt with accordingly.

A piece of advice: if you are so much into doing your business over TOR, then kindly skip fiat and exchange your bitcoins for goods directly, or if you really need that evil-government fiat, then at least exchange coins in person for cash. Don't come here and cry about MtGox or about one of those in-person deals going sour and painful. And don't go to police either, they're evil, right?

As for MtGox in this case, OP has a point that more transparency is needed. I suspect the problem here is not TOR per se, but the origin of the coins and/or a police investigation. If it is indeed just the fact that TOR was used, then they shouldn't  have accepted the deposit in the first place, and need to be upfront about this.


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January 15, 2012, 10:43:26 PM
 #18

Mt.Gox does not have any choice. They are not stealing the coins, they are holding them. He/she is free to get them, just send his ID.
If they dont do this they would be forced to shut down because things like it would be held against them in court. Its that simple.





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January 15, 2012, 11:34:52 PM
 #19

I think the issue here is that Mt. Gox needs to make their policy about TOR users clear, and warn TOR users or maybe even disallow TOR signups.  It's not about the decision, it's about notification.
arepo
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this statement is false


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January 15, 2012, 11:40:49 PM
 #20

I think the issue here is that Mt. Gox needs to make their policy about TOR users clear, and warn TOR users or maybe even disallow TOR signups.  It's not about the decision, it's about notification.

THIS +100

it's all about a clear agreement outlining exactly what powers mtgox retains in acting as a virtual wallet, and exactly what liberties its users retain in the event of anything outside of ordinary use.

this sentence has fifteen words, seventy-four letters, four commas, one hyphen, and a period.
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