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Author Topic: CYRious Technologies - CYR Jackhammer $599 / 1.4TH/s  (Read 9461 times)
Stevbenson
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May 04, 2014, 01:41:30 AM
 #121

What is the cooling system for the ASIC's? There is a picture of a small heat sink/fan on your website but surely this is not for the ASIC?

Hi Stevbenson,

You are correct the heatsink / fan on their slideshow is NOT for the asics, it is for the control board. The picture makes it look even bigger than it really is, that thing is tiny, like barley a few inches tiny. If i remember correctly the sample heat-sinks for the ASIC boards will be in this week and will be added to the photo roll and on the updates on their blog. From the sketch-ups i have seen the cooling system is a large radiator and fans unit that lines almost the entire case with a few blades also exposed on the bottom of the case itself. I will see if i can get the 3d models for you and send them to you in a PM sometime early this week like Monday or Tuesday, they have tons of 3d renders of most every component but they were trying to stay away from posting them all and stick to actual pictures of components to avoid all the "ooooo look at a 3d render scam" propaganda.  

If there is anything else i can help you with please feel free to PM me, it seems to be the preferred method of communication of people with honest inquiry's and will save you from having to scroll through the 20 pages of blather i am sure this thread will fill up with in the next few days just to find the answer to your questions.

Thankyou for your reply, I will prefer to ask questions in the thread in case othershave the same questions.

I think cooling your asics will be the toughest part for your design, when you say a "large radiator with blades" I get the picture the of metal blades being used as the heat conductors to the radiator? Indicating that is is not liquid cooled.

Is this right? No liquid cooling?



Correct, at this time their thermal testing algorithms do not show the need for liquid cooling, that is not to say that when the prototype heat-sinks arrive and are tested with a working unit that the design might not change to incorporate liquid cooling.

You are also correct that cooling was one of the biggest engineering obsticles in such a high power but small size unit, that and powering the unit itself.

I believe you that your simulations don't predict the need for liquid cooling but I would be perhaps questioning some of the assumptions in your model.

It seems to me that when I look at other ASIC miners out there it's a pretty simple design trait that determines weather it needs liquid cooling or not. This is the number of ASICs.

For example, look at the Bitmain/Spondoolies products they consist of hundreds of small ASICs and thus can get away with heatsinks and air cooling as the heat is spread out over the whole board. If you look at designs where one or two larger ASICs are used such as Cointerra, Hashfast ect these requied water cooling as the heat density is much greater in these designs.

TBH it looks like your design will probably need water cooling, I get that your chips are more efficiect then say cointerra/hashfast but we can still compare, I will use the cointerra box as an example as I know the specs of the top of my head. It uses 4 ASIC @ 2000W for 1.6Th/s lets sat the ASICS use ~70% of the energy this means each chip uses 350W, requires liquid cooling. Now your machine has 2 ASIC @ 450 for 1.4Th/s making the same assumptions you have 160W per chip...

Only half the power density of the cointerra chip... Interestingly the cointerra design was ment to use less energy than it does by a pretty big margin and they still designed it with liquid cooling originally.

Another design that was ment to be low power and not need water cooling is the fabled BFL 'Monarch', who knows what the specs will be when they finally release it but this suffered from the same design flaw as your machine. Very small case, and only two ASICs ment to use 350W for 6000Gh/s same assumptions as above means ~120W per chip (even less than yours) and they have since found that this needs water cooling on the ASICs.
 
I think not designing liquid cooling for the get go is a big mistake... Just like it was for BFL.

If your design does need liquid cooling this will add a big expense for you in terms of cooling systems and larger cases. And possibly delay your product significantly, tbh this is my major concern.
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May 04, 2014, 01:53:46 AM
 #122

What is the cooling system for the ASIC's? There is a picture of a small heat sink/fan on your website but surely this is not for the ASIC?

Hi Stevbenson,

You are correct the heatsink / fan on their slideshow is NOT for the asics, it is for the control board. The picture makes it look even bigger than it really is, that thing is tiny, like barley a few inches tiny. If i remember correctly the sample heat-sinks for the ASIC boards will be in this week and will be added to the photo roll and on the updates on their blog. From the sketch-ups i have seen the cooling system is a large radiator and fans unit that lines almost the entire case with a few blades also exposed on the bottom of the case itself. I will see if i can get the 3d models for you and send them to you in a PM sometime early this week like Monday or Tuesday, they have tons of 3d renders of most every component but they were trying to stay away from posting them all and stick to actual pictures of components to avoid all the "ooooo look at a 3d render scam" propaganda.  

If there is anything else i can help you with please feel free to PM me, it seems to be the preferred method of communication of people with honest inquiry's and will save you from having to scroll through the 20 pages of blather i am sure this thread will fill up with in the next few days just to find the answer to your questions.

Thankyou for your reply, I will prefer to ask questions in the thread in case othershave the same questions.

I think cooling your asics will be the toughest part for your design, when you say a "large radiator with blades" I get the picture the of metal blades being used as the heat conductors to the radiator? Indicating that is is not liquid cooled.

Is this right? No liquid cooling?



Correct, at this time their thermal testing algorithms do not show the need for liquid cooling, that is not to say that when the prototype heat-sinks arrive and are tested with a working unit that the design might not change to incorporate liquid cooling.

You are also correct that cooling was one of the biggest engineering obsticles in such a high power but small size unit, that and powering the unit itself.

I believe you that your simulations don't predict the need for liquid cooling but I would be perhaps questioning some of the assumptions in your model.

It seems to me that when I look at other ASIC miners out there it's a pretty simple design trait that determines weather it needs liquid cooling or not. This is the number of ASICs.

For example, look at the Bitmain/Spondoolies products they consist of hundreds of small ASICs and thus can get away with heatsinks and air cooling as the heat is spread out over the whole board. If you look at designs where one or two larger ASICs are used such as Cointerra, Hashfast ect these requied water cooling as the heat density is much greater in these designs.

TBH it looks like your design will probably need water cooling, I get that your chips are more efficiect then say cointerra/hashfast but we can still compare, I will use the cointerra box as an example as I know the specs of the top of my head. It uses 4 ASIC @ 2000W for 1.6Th/s lets sat the ASICS use ~70% of the energy this means each chip uses 350W, requires liquid cooling. Now your machine has 2 ASIC @ 450 for 1.4Th/s making the same assumptions you have 160W per chip...

Only half the power density of the cointerra chip... Interestingly the cointerra design was ment to use less energy than it does by a pretty big margin and they still designed it with liquid cooling originally.

Another design that was ment to be low power and not need water cooling is the fabled BFL 'Monarch', who knows what the specs will be when they finally release it but this suffered from the same design flaw as your machine. Very small case, and only two ASICs ment to use 350W for 6000Gh/s same assumptions as above means ~120W per chip (even less than yours) and they have since found that this needs water cooling on the ASICs.
 
I think not designing liquid cooling for the get go is a big mistake... Just like it was for BFL.

If your design does need liquid cooling this will add a big expense for you in terms of cooling systems and larger cases. And possibly delay your product significantly, tbh this is my major concern.


A valid concern, $599 is only the introductory type price. normal production units will be $899, Water cooling could very well be needed, but dealing in such high volumes cost is not much of a concern for any component as CYR has contracts which bind them to a very large production number which brings their cost down a drastic amount on almost everything. Its like HP and e-machines (gateway) HP computers have a higher cost even though they are a large brand due to volumes per run. E-machines has huge contracts with wal-mart, woolworth and several other big box stores and produces 4 times the units as HP does with only a few models. So e-machines have a lower cost.

If delivery date and refund are your concerns then contact The Bitcoin Society to get clarity on the terms of the escrow agreement. It seems almost everyone who has ordered thus far used escrow with the exception of a select few.
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May 04, 2014, 02:14:29 AM
 #123

I'm sorry, is it suppose to be shocking that 2 companies can use the single largest domain registrar and hosting companies on the planet? that would be like me being shocked that my neighbor and i both own Fords. 80% of all domains registered come from either Melbourne IT or GoDaddy, and over 60% of all managed paid hosting services come from hosting services incorporated which operates under dozens of different names AN hosting, Midphase, etc.

Quick everybody run, there are companies who repetitively use the most cost effective options for their web services. For that matter, STOP USING BITCOINTALK.ORG because they use private internet access which is the same VPN that 90% of the companies who pop up with scams on this forum. or as anybody who has accidentally stumbled across bitcoinforum.com's webpage quickly learns that at least half of the scams that show up on this forum are administered by the leadership of this form. Resolving to the same DNS is one thing, Resolving to the same IP means websites are hosting on the same server, same block, same node, same drives for that matter.


Your domain reg argument is wrong.  Cite a source.  GoDaddy owns over 30% of the market, they aren't part of this discussion.  Melbourne retains far less than 10%.  

Hosting Services inc operates under 7 names, not a dozen.  As for bitcointalk and VPN, as well as scams - you have no proof of administrators facilitating more than half of the scams.

The odds are tiny, you're just spewing ambiguous statements.  Anyway, I'm done getting reverse trolled.

Ignoring this thread, if you actually deliver a spec miner, I'll apologize.

Until then, you're the one who can go suck a bag of dicks.

xjack - 1xjackDMgJCLn1LDtbgh51DYw6uRgeHVb
Reputation thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=482124.0
Stevbenson
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May 04, 2014, 02:24:41 AM
 #124

What is the cooling system for the ASIC's? There is a picture of a small heat sink/fan on your website but surely this is not for the ASIC?

Hi Stevbenson,

You are correct the heatsink / fan on their slideshow is NOT for the asics, it is for the control board. The picture makes it look even bigger than it really is, that thing is tiny, like barley a few inches tiny. If i remember correctly the sample heat-sinks for the ASIC boards will be in this week and will be added to the photo roll and on the updates on their blog. From the sketch-ups i have seen the cooling system is a large radiator and fans unit that lines almost the entire case with a few blades also exposed on the bottom of the case itself. I will see if i can get the 3d models for you and send them to you in a PM sometime early this week like Monday or Tuesday, they have tons of 3d renders of most every component but they were trying to stay away from posting them all and stick to actual pictures of components to avoid all the "ooooo look at a 3d render scam" propaganda.  

If there is anything else i can help you with please feel free to PM me, it seems to be the preferred method of communication of people with honest inquiry's and will save you from having to scroll through the 20 pages of blather i am sure this thread will fill up with in the next few days just to find the answer to your questions.

Thankyou for your reply, I will prefer to ask questions in the thread in case othershave the same questions.

I think cooling your asics will be the toughest part for your design, when you say a "large radiator with blades" I get the picture the of metal blades being used as the heat conductors to the radiator? Indicating that is is not liquid cooled.

Is this right? No liquid cooling?



Correct, at this time their thermal testing algorithms do not show the need for liquid cooling, that is not to say that when the prototype heat-sinks arrive and are tested with a working unit that the design might not change to incorporate liquid cooling.

You are also correct that cooling was one of the biggest engineering obsticles in such a high power but small size unit, that and powering the unit itself.

I believe you that your simulations don't predict the need for liquid cooling but I would be perhaps questioning some of the assumptions in your model.

It seems to me that when I look at other ASIC miners out there it's a pretty simple design trait that determines weather it needs liquid cooling or not. This is the number of ASICs.

For example, look at the Bitmain/Spondoolies products they consist of hundreds of small ASICs and thus can get away with heatsinks and air cooling as the heat is spread out over the whole board. If you look at designs where one or two larger ASICs are used such as Cointerra, Hashfast ect these requied water cooling as the heat density is much greater in these designs.

TBH it looks like your design will probably need water cooling, I get that your chips are more efficiect then say cointerra/hashfast but we can still compare, I will use the cointerra box as an example as I know the specs of the top of my head. It uses 4 ASIC @ 2000W for 1.6Th/s lets sat the ASICS use ~70% of the energy this means each chip uses 350W, requires liquid cooling. Now your machine has 2 ASIC @ 450 for 1.4Th/s making the same assumptions you have 160W per chip...

Only half the power density of the cointerra chip... Interestingly the cointerra design was ment to use less energy than it does by a pretty big margin and they still designed it with liquid cooling originally.

Another design that was ment to be low power and not need water cooling is the fabled BFL 'Monarch', who knows what the specs will be when they finally release it but this suffered from the same design flaw as your machine. Very small case, and only two ASICs ment to use 350W for 6000Gh/s same assumptions as above means ~120W per chip (even less than yours) and they have since found that this needs water cooling on the ASICs.
 
I think not designing liquid cooling for the get go is a big mistake... Just like it was for BFL.

If your design does need liquid cooling this will add a big expense for you in terms of cooling systems and larger cases. And possibly delay your product significantly, tbh this is my major concern.


A valid concern, $599 is only the introductory type price. normal production units will be $899, Water cooling could very well be needed, but dealing in such high volumes cost is not much of a concern for any component as CYR has contracts which bind them to a very large production number which brings their cost down a drastic amount on almost everything. Its like HP and e-machines (gateway) HP computers have a higher cost even though they are a large brand due to volumes per run. E-machines has huge contracts with wal-mart, woolworth and several other big box stores and produces 4 times the units as HP does with only a few models. So e-machines have a lower cost.

If delivery date and refund are your concerns then contact The Bitcoin Society to get clarity on the terms of the escrow agreement. It seems almost everyone who has ordered thus far used escrow with the exception of a select few.

I am glad you agree it is a valid concern.

Email sent to 'The Bitcoin Society' I await their reply.

I must say though I don't really see any difference between giving you my money and giving them my money. The whole point of escrow is to use a trusted third party. I currently have no trust in 'The Bitcoin Society' for a few reasons.

-I have never heard of them before.
-They give no information as to who they are on their website or any of their posting here.
-Their website has only been active it seems since this year...only two posts in their blog...very sparse website

TBH it could be a one man operation... I mean I could make a website with that amount of content in my spare time since January...

Why should I trust them with my money more than you?
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May 04, 2014, 02:25:59 AM
 #125

wanna see where this goes

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May 04, 2014, 02:38:07 AM
 #126

wanna see where this goes

Me too, but only for comic relief.  Cool

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Johnny Bitcoin Walker
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May 04, 2014, 02:44:23 AM
 #127


I am glad you agree it is a valid concern.

Email sent to 'The Bitcoin Society' I await their reply.

I must say though I don't really see any difference between giving you my money and giving them my money. The whole point of escrow is to use a trusted third party. I currently have no trust in 'The Bitcoin Society' for a few reasons.

-I have never heard of them before.
-They give no information as to who they are on their website or any of their posting here.
-Their website has only been active it seems since this year...only two posts in their blog...very sparse website

TBH it could be a one man operation... I mean I could make a website with that amount of content in my spare time since January...

Why should I trust them with my money more than you?

I cannot really answer that question for you Stevbenson, i am not asking you to trust "me" with your money, and although i had heard of the bitcoin society before, i have only used them as an escrow once so i dont have a ton of experience with them. I wish i had a better answer for you, but in all fairness that question is kind of like a loaded gun. I can speak on behalf of CYR, i am there at least 3 times a week and know most everyone there but I have only been told that The Bitcoin Society is handling escrow and do not know much more about them than my own 1 time personal experience. So i dont feel that i can rightfully "promote" their services. Although this is a second account which will be disposed of when my contract is up i still cannot blow smoke about a company i dont know much about. So the best i can really offer is that i used them one time, and things went ok.

Sorry i couldnt offer more
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May 04, 2014, 03:12:48 AM
 #128

I have been asked to issue a notice to customers until the web design team gets back into the office on Monday and updates the website. All orders placed through the website are automatically canceled if they are not funded or paid for within 60 minutes of the time the order is created. As there are often several "testing it out" orders with any hardware company and the web interface runs bitcoin-d in the background and generates a new address for each order, to avoid generating multiple addresses which are never used the backed cancels non funded orders after 1 hour and recycles the address after 72 hours. If you wait more than one hour to send payment you will be required to place a new order through the system
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May 04, 2014, 03:36:49 AM
 #129

I have been asked to issue a notice to customers until the web design team gets back into the office on Monday and updates the website. All orders placed through the website are automatically canceled if they are not funded or paid for within 60 minutes of the time the order is created. As there are often several "testing it out" orders with any hardware company and the web interface runs bitcoin-d in the background and generates a new address for each order, to avoid generating multiple addresses which are never used the backed cancels non funded orders after 1 hour and recycles the address after 72 hours. If you wait more than one hour to send payment you will be required to place a new order through the system

That's understandable had the same issue at another new "established" site but was acceptable because they were quick to refund my btc and kept  in contact through email.  Anyone who has ordered, any info on their customer service.  I'm closing my eyes and clicking my heels three times hoping for the best. 
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May 04, 2014, 04:01:34 AM
 #130

Anyone know the connectivity?  It's not a standalone miner?  It needs to be connected to a host computer via usb 3.0 port.
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May 04, 2014, 04:25:12 AM
 #131

Anyone know the connectivity?  It's not a standalone miner?  It needs to be connected to a host computer via usb 3.0 port.

No, not a stand alone miner, drivers will be made available and support CG and BFG. Their website is very premature and is not officially launching until next this coming Friday so the bulk of information is still not published. I pushed to start web relations early with the stance that a good share of customers dont care how fancy the website looks for a week while the developers finish. Which proved right as they have received now over 100 orders between escrow orders and direct web orders.

The drivers will be made available long before shipping begins, they operate like most other usb miners where you can connect several to a usb 3.0 hub and each is assigned a COM port.

The driver repository will be made available to developers who are developing software's which do not operate BFG or CG in the background, Much like most new hardware platforms i dont think it will be very long after shipping that drivers are made compatible for most every software host program.

The choice to go with USB in place of Ethernet was for ease of use, you can ask Dogie, 80% of the issues he helps people with in setup are people who cannot get their routers, modems or network switches configured to work with their hardware. As where USB is rather plug and play.

Step one: install driver
Step two: plug in hardware
Step three: start software and run hardware.

The one thing that is 100% for certain is that it will HAVE TO BE A USB 3.0 port or hub as every early simulated test shows a high % of share loss on 2.0 specs. it was explained to me a little better in a more technical fashion but all i really remembered was that it has to be 3.0 because 2.0 will not work.
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May 04, 2014, 04:36:52 AM
 #132

Thanks, awaiting more info on refund policy if any.  Hopefully early next week. Grin
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May 04, 2014, 04:42:10 AM
 #133

A quick Google search of your product shows that the only reference to your product have been in this forum.
There are no other reference anywhere on the Internet before this date

https://www.google.com.au/#q=%22CYR+Jackhammer%22

So what you mean to tell us is that since your initial post of May 2nd.. There have been 100 people from this forum that have paid actual money or BTC for this device in lieu of the copious amounts of unanswered legitimate questions posed?

And to contrast those numbers against reputable group buy here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=575499.0 which..

a.) Is completely transparent in regards to all it's transactions
b.) Has legitimate information and working prototypes of it's hardware
c.) has support of the majority of forum members

Which ran from April 18th to May 4th and got 386 parties to purchase their product
If you Google Spondoolies they have references all over the Internet and not just in these forums

Like I said for the sake of humanity itself now stop this.. Leave and come back when you have working prototypes
You're digging your own grave
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May 04, 2014, 04:43:35 AM
 #134

Thanks, awaiting more info on refund policy if any.  Hopefully early next week. Grin

I will make sure and keep you in the loop as soon as i get clarification from management. I got clarification from The Bitcoin Society on their Escrow Policy, By defult if miners do not ship my July 31st then your BTC is automatically returned, If at any time after your order you request a refund before shipping, you can be refunded your coins lesser the 1% escrow fee ( a small price to pay for the added security of escrow either way )

As for direct orders through the website, i am not 100% for sure yet on how they will handle refunds so i do not want to speculate.
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May 04, 2014, 04:52:22 AM
 #135

A quick Google search of your product shows that the only reference to your product have been in this forum.
There are no other reference anywhere on the Internet before this date

https://www.google.com.au/#q=%22CYR+Jackhammer%22

So what you mean to tell us is that since your initial post of May 2nd.. There have been 100 people from this forum that have paid actual money or BTC for this device in lieu of the copious amounts of unanswered legitimate questions posed?

And to contrast those numbers against reputable group buy here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=575499.0 which..

a.) Is completely transparent in regards to all it's transactions
b.) Has legitimate information and working prototypes of it's hardware
c.) has support of the majority of forum members

Which ran from April 18th to May 4th and got 386 parties to purchase their product
If you Google Spondoolies they have references all over the Internet and not just in these forums

Like I said for the sake of humanity itself now stop this.. Leave and come back when you have working prototypes
You're digging your own grave

Crash, thanks for the advise, but with the "copious" number of orders coming from here, 2 other forums and reddit since my announcing the product starting friday night the only thing i am digging is my way into hitting my bonus in the first week of web relations, so i will continue on, through the trolling and whatever else and as each week goes by i will just be able to add a few more "i told you weeks ago you were an idiot" statements to my daily writings. In the mean time, as long as there are idiotic trolls, the thread stays near the top so i do not have to stay up around the clock to ensure its positioning.

Web presence started friday night, and not every website gets indexed and visited by googlebot as frequently as bitcointalk, probably why it has not shown more in google yet.
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May 04, 2014, 05:01:37 AM
 #136

The correct spelling of the word is advice
It also wasn't advice it was a question

The copious reference was to the unanswered questions not to the amount of orders from this forum
If you're going to paraphrase me at least keep it in the same context

That's fine then
Provide a link to all the references you have created to this product. I'm sure when we look through them all we can at least find a percentage of users that are interested. A fair number would be 30% of people publicly would mention they were interested in this deal and are going ahead with it

30% of 100 is 30 people.. nice round number
We'll all wait here while you do that shall we?


Crash, thanks for the advise, but with the "copious" number of orders coming from here, 2 other forums and reddit since my announcing the product starting friday night the only thing i am digging is my way into hitting my bonus in the first week of web relations, so i will continue on, through the trolling and whatever else and as each week goes by i will just be able to add a few more "i told you weeks ago you were an idiot" statements to my daily writings. In the mean time, as long as there are idiotic trolls, the thread stays near the top so i do not have to stay up around the clock to ensure its positioning.

Web presence started friday night, and not every website gets indexed and visited by googlebot as frequently as bitcointalk, probably why it has not shown more in google yet.
kano
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May 04, 2014, 05:17:18 AM
 #137

Anyone know the connectivity?  It's not a standalone miner?  It needs to be connected to a host computer via usb 3.0 port.

No, not a stand alone miner, drivers will be made available and support CG and ...

Right, so I take you ignoring my exact question about this to mean that's bullshit ...

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
cr4sh0verride
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May 04, 2014, 06:17:50 AM
 #138

An entire search on Reddit for the term "Cyrious" brings up one video from 2011

http://www.reddit.com/search?q=%22cyrious%22&restrict_sr=off&sort=relevance&t=all

The term "cyr" from this week has 3 unrelated references

http://www.reddit.com/search?q=%22cyr%22&sort=relevance&restrict_sr=off&t=week

Every other term related to this has turned up nothing..

So there is one of two possibilities here

1. I'm searching for the wrong terms and haven't found anything (or you misspelled your own product name)
2. You're lying about it being on Reddit

Which one is it?

Also as a side note if you're happy that all the "trolls" such as myself bumping the thread.. then why do you feel the need to petition the mods to delete posts? Are you going to deny that as well?
Johnny Bitcoin Walker
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May 04, 2014, 03:22:59 PM
 #139

Anyone know the connectivity?  It's not a standalone miner?  It needs to be connected to a host computer via usb 3.0 port.

No, not a stand alone miner, drivers will be made available and support CG and ...

Right, so I take you ignoring my exact question about this to mean that's bullshit ...

Kano, i dont see a question there. I answered the question about not being stand alone, which was not even your question it was meech's. So if you have a question, ask it instead of complaining that its not answered when you never asked.
Johnny Bitcoin Walker
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May 05, 2014, 03:01:42 AM
 #140

It seems a few missed the previous post as there have been a lot of e-mails about this again today.

I have been asked to issue a notice to customers until the web design team gets back into the office on Monday and updates the website. All orders placed through the website are automatically canceled if they are not funded or paid for within 60 minutes of the time the order is created. As there are often several "testing it out" orders with any hardware company and the web interface runs bitcoin-d in the background and generates a new address for each order, to avoid generating multiple addresses which are never used the backed cancels non funded orders after 1 hour and recycles the address after 72 hours. If you wait more than one hour to send payment you will be required to place a new order through the system
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