A large sum of money, where would you keep it?

[loadsofmoney]

Ok so I have had a couple of great years in Crypto. I won't be coy, I have about 1000 BTC. My problem is this is not a small deal to me, this is my life fortune so how can I keep it safe?


I am a big believer in BTC but I don't want to keep it all in BTC or any coin to be honest. I would still keep a percentage, how much is wise I'm not sure.


What I would like is a way to keep at least 60% in USD or other fiats in the digital realm. ( yeah I know but let's leave that argument aside)

So what is the best most secure way to store USD or other currencies for that matter without selling my coins and giving most of it to the Taxman?


My ideas have been too use Ripple and store USD and maybe Yuan but Ive heard you don't really own the contents of Ripple but are based on Trust, doesn't seem long term stable to me when I want to use it?


My other idea is that NXT might be able to store USD at some point and other commodities. I like this idea but am not sure how long term secure this is?


How would you try to keep you money in the digital realm safe and stable for the long term?

[PilotofBTC]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

[loadsofmoney]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

I'm not giving my digital money to the state.

Why is converting to USD or fiat, selling it? Don't you see bitcoin as a digital currency? Do you think people pay tax when they buy Dogecoins with BTC? Or convert their dollars to another fiat?

So yeah I want to store my wealth online, hopefully in the future we will have a far progressive way of dealing with digital currencies, possibly after a dollar collapse.


So the question remains, how would you store wealth online in my situation? I guess a portfolio of fiat and coins and the ability to jump out of fiat or coins if certain events looked like crushing my wealth.

[rme]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

[loadsofmoney]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

Dude, money safe in your house?

Or a Bank? Dude are you aware of the banking crisis going on in the world. Anyway that would mean paying taxes and who knows what legal problems if the state decides to come after this who have wealth from Bitcoin. suddenly I'm labelled a potential terrorist and my funds are frozen. I DONT want to go through the banking system or governments.


Is there anyone on here who is a true believer in crypto as a currency?

A blockchain is in my mind safe and free from third parties...   In what form I store them digitally and what system I use is my question, please don't derail the simple specific question I'm asking. I'm not asking for a debate on TAX or the banking system.

[RodeoX]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

+1 get a safe deposit box at the bank. This is what banks are actually good at. As far as hiding your money from the government... Why take that risk? If discovered you will face fines, late fees, jail time, and still owe the original tax.  Don't make the mistake that many make the first time they have real money. Look at how many rock stars and athletes wind up flat broke after making millions of dollars.

[rme]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

Dude, money safe in your house?

Or a Bank? Dude are you aware of the banking crisis going on in the world. Anyway that would mean paying taxes and who knows what legal problems if the state decides to come after this who have wealth from Bitcoin. suddenly I'm labelled a potential terrorist and my funds are frozen. I DONT want to go through the banking system or governments.


Is there anyone on here who is a true believer in crypto as a currency?

The blockchain is in my mind safe....

Ok, go for crypto but use Bitcoin, do not store USD in Ripple or similar, that is not safe for that amounts (in Ripple you trust "Gateways" a.k.a. banks).

[rme]

If you ask me I would do it this way:

TOTAL 1000 BTC

350 BTC -> 150000 USD into a Bank (Choose the most trusted one in your country).
550 BTC -> Paper wallets with multiple backups, BIP32, multisig, etc.
100 BTC -> Investments, mining, altcoins (not recommended), everyday expenses, online wallets, etc.

[loadsofmoney]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

+1 get a safe deposit box at the bank. This is what banks are actually good at. As far as hiding your money from the government... Why take that risk? If discovered you will face fines, late fees, jail time, and still owe the original tax.  Don't make the mistake that many make the first time they have real money. Look at how many rock stars and athletes wind up flat broke after making millions of dollars.

Ok fair point but at least I can decide when I want to declare my gains in a future time in a future place. I mean I could move to Singapore to avoid taxes etc. I'm not a US citizen just so you know. Plus I might sell some and pay taxes but I want to keep a lot online in a digital portfolio I guess is the best way to describe it.

Look I would just store in Bitcoin but its future long term potential has too many ifs and buts. I would love to store in a digital currency backed by Gold but that's not a reality.


Plus I could drip use it digitally and no one could ever know I bought something off overstock with my cash or whatever or the amount of digital wealth I own.

I just want to add. I'm not avoiding taxes cause I'm a scumbag. I genuinely think almost all taxes are criminal and a hindrance to economic development for all. I am a Libertarian but I don't want that to sidetrack the question.

[loadsofmoney]

If you ask me I would do it this way:

TOTAL 1000 BTC

350 BTC -> 150000 USD into a Bank (Choose the most trusted one in your country).
550 BTC -> Paper wallets with multiple backups, BIP32, multisig, etc.
100 BTC -> Investments, mining, altcoins (not recommended), everyday expenses, online wallets, etc.

Thanks for thinking about it and posting but I really can't take the risk of having my entire personal fortune in BTC. I'm think a liquid portfolio of cash and major coins, possibly digital commodities in NXT? Online.  Plus Cash will mean it's in the system and I will have to pay capital gains which if you guys aren't familiar with is a lot. We are talking as much as 50-60% for large amounts Potentially.

[Quora]

1. Electrum wallets & cold storage
2. Elliptic Lloyd's cold storage
3. Real estate in a great location

[loadsofmoney]

Ok, to be clear.


I want online storage, not outside internet though I might look at more secure wallets and cold storage for the bitcoin part, but I only want maybe 25% in BTC. What I want is A portfolio of BTC, Fiats and potentially commodities, all very liquid and anonymous.


I was thinking Ripple but am wondering if NXT asset exchange will be a good idea?


No banks, not just BTC, I can't just walk away from a portfolio of BTC and relax. sorry but I can't, any crypto at this point actually.

[PilotofBTC]

If you ask me I would do it this way:

TOTAL 1000 BTC

350 BTC -> 150000 USD into a Bank (Choose the most trusted one in your country).
550 BTC -> Paper wallets with multiple backups, BIP32, multisig, etc.
100 BTC -> Investments, mining, altcoins (not recommended), everyday expenses, online wallets, etc.

I would put the USD in a brokerage money market fund. It is just as liquid but will earn you more interest than a bank account.

[PilotofBTC]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

Why is converting to USD or fiat, selling it? Don't you see bitcoin as a digital currency? Do you think people pay tax when they buy Dogecoins with BTC? Or convert their dollars to another fiat?

Sure, BTC is a digital currency. It is either BTC or it is USD. It can't be both at the same time. That seems to be what you are implying.

As far as ForEx trading, yes, if you buy EUR with USD, then sell the EUR for USD at a profit, you owe tax. Don't be a tax evader. If you're in the US, unless the re-categorize BTC as currency, even if you spend BTC you owe tax on the gain. That said, you can also write off losses.

[RodeoX]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

+1 get a safe deposit box at the bank. This is what banks are actually good at. As far as hiding your money from the government... Why take that risk? If discovered you will face fines, late fees, jail time, and still owe the original tax.  Don't make the mistake that many make the first time they have real money. Look at how many rock stars and athletes wind up flat broke after making millions of dollars.

Ok fair point but at least I can decide when I want to declare my gains in a future time in a future place. I mean I could move to Singapore to avoid taxes etc. I'm not a US citizen just so you know. Plus I might sell some and pay taxes but I want to keep a lot online in a digital portfolio I guess is the best way to describe it.

Look I would just store in Bitcoin but its future long term potential has too many ifs and buts. I would love to store in a digital currency backed by Gold but that's not a reality.


Plus I could drip use it digitally and no one could ever know I bought something off overstock with my cash or whatever or the amount of digital wealth I own.

I just want to add. I'm not avoiding taxes cause I'm a scumbag. I genuinely think almost all taxes are criminal and a hindrance to economic development for all. I am a Libertarian but I don't want that to sidetrack the question.

You have some good points. And since you do not owe taxes until you spend them it may be in your own interest to hoard them and move to a tax heaven if they reach a huge figure. It may also be years before the IRS has the ability to do anything about bitcoin. Kinda like pirating music in the early days. We all got away with it.
But it could go wrong. It would make Satoshi cry if your good fortune with bitcoin turned into a costly legal mess. -------> 

[loadsofmoney]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

Why is converting to USD or fiat, selling it? Don't you see bitcoin as a digital currency? Do you think people pay tax when they buy Dogecoins with BTC? Or convert their dollars to another fiat?

Sure, BTC is a digital currency. It is either BTC or it is USD. It can't be both at the same time. That seems to be what you are implying.

As far as ForEx trading, yes, if you buy EUR with USD, then sell the EUR for USD at a profit, you owe tax. Don't be a tax evader. If you're in the US, unless the re-categorize BTC as currency, even if you spend BTC you owe tax on the gain. That said, you can also write off losses.

No of course I don't think I can have something in BTC and USD at the same time, I've no idea why you think I implied that.


I think you are being overly moral as 99.99% of trades on exchanges don't pay tax or do most who bounce between USD and BTC on exchanges like BTCe. Most people only ever think about it when it re enter the banking system and have to bite the bullet.

Well my aim is not to enter the banking system at least not now but have a balanced portfolio of digital wealth stored online. So please, this isn't a thread for discussions about tax evasion. Who knows later I can move back into a digital currency online and feel it's stable enough long term I just don't want to be in BTC only now.

[loadsofmoney]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

+1 get a safe deposit box at the bank. This is what banks are actually good at. As far as hiding your money from the government... Why take that risk? If discovered you will face fines, late fees, jail time, and still owe the original tax.  Don't make the mistake that many make the first time they have real money. Look at how many rock stars and athletes wind up flat broke after making millions of dollars.

Ok fair point but at least I can decide when I want to declare my gains in a future time in a future place. I mean I could move to Singapore to avoid taxes etc. I'm not a US citizen just so you know. Plus I might sell some and pay taxes but I want to keep a lot online in a digital portfolio I guess is the best way to describe it.

Look I would just store in Bitcoin but its future long term potential has too many ifs and buts. I would love to store in a digital currency backed by Gold but that's not a reality.


Plus I could drip use it digitally and no one could ever know I bought something off overstock with my cash or whatever or the amount of digital wealth I own.

I just want to add. I'm not avoiding taxes cause I'm a scumbag. I genuinely think almost all taxes are criminal and a hindrance to economic development for all. I am a Libertarian but I don't want that to sidetrack the question.

You have some good points. And since you do not owe taxes until you spend them it may be in your own interest to hoard them and move to a tax heaven if they reach a huge figure. It may also be years before the IRS has the ability to do anything about bitcoin. Kinda like pirating music in the early days. We all got away with it.
But it could go wrong. It would make Satoshi cry if your good fortune with bitcoin turned into a costly legal mess. -------> 

Also the tax rules are developing and changing all the time with Bitcoin. I don't need to worry about the IRS as I live in Asia at the moment and tend to globe trot.

The current thinking is to treat BYC as a commodity so I would have to pay capital gains. Now what I might do is move small amounts every year later in the future to my bank and so am free of tax obligations, but for now I want a stable storage for my digital wealth. We all do I'm sure, maybe everyone doesn't have quite as much, many with a lot more that me, but we all tend to move own coins around during price drops etc. All I'm wanting is a long term strategy where I can store and walk away without having to check the Bitcoin price everyday...Personally I would love digital silver and gold if possible..

[PilotofBTC]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

Why is converting to USD or fiat, selling it? Don't you see bitcoin as a digital currency? Do you think people pay tax when they buy Dogecoins with BTC? Or convert their dollars to another fiat?

Sure, BTC is a digital currency. It is either BTC or it is USD. It can't be both at the same time. That seems to be what you are implying.

As far as ForEx trading, yes, if you buy EUR with USD, then sell the EUR for USD at a profit, you owe tax. Don't be a tax evader. If you're in the US, unless the re-categorize BTC as currency, even if you spend BTC you owe tax on the gain. That said, you can also write off losses.

No of course I don't think I can have something in BTC and USD at the same time, I've no idea why you think I implied that.


I think you are being overly moral as 99.99% of trades on exchanges don't pay tax or do most who bounce between USD and BTC on exchanges like BTCe. Most people only ever think about it when it re enter the banking system and have to bite the bullet.

Well my aim is not to enter the banking system at least not now but have a balanced portfolio of digital wealth stored online. So please, this isn't a thread for discussions about tax evasion. Who knows later I can move back into a digital currency online and feel it's stable enough long term I just don't want to be in BTC only now.

Got it. So, bottom line, I wouldn't trust any exchanges to hold much BTC or USD. Keep it all as BTC, and move it to paper wallets. Laminate the paper wallets and put them somewhere secure. You might want to try holding GOLD/SILVER. It is pretty stable and can be liquid if you use a pool account. Kitco.com has pool accounts. The nice thing about using GOLD/SILVER as storage medium is that if the value of the dollar goes down, the value of the gold/silver goes up. It's a great way to hold wealth and hedge against currency value loss.

[Quora]

NXT could be secure enough in several months, but considering the protocol, whole network infrastructure and community support, it most likely won't come close to Electrum, or perhaps Armory, in terms of security and possibilities/options/features.

Online storage has wider attack surface as I found out on Reddit Bitcoin while reading about DarkWallet browser plugin, and Blockchain.info online wallet and browser plugin.

[loadsofmoney]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

Why is converting to USD or fiat, selling it? Don't you see bitcoin as a digital currency? Do you think people pay tax when they buy Dogecoins with BTC? Or convert their dollars to another fiat?

Sure, BTC is a digital currency. It is either BTC or it is USD. It can't be both at the same time. That seems to be what you are implying.

As far as ForEx trading, yes, if you buy EUR with USD, then sell the EUR for USD at a profit, you owe tax. Don't be a tax evader. If you're in the US, unless the re-categorize BTC as currency, even if you spend BTC you owe tax on the gain. That said, you can also write off losses.

No of course I don't think I can have something in BTC and USD at the same time, I've no idea why you think I implied that.


I think you are being overly moral as 99.99% of trades on exchanges don't pay tax or do most who bounce between USD and BTC on exchanges like BTCe. Most people only ever think about it when it re enter the banking system and have to bite the bullet.

Well my aim is not to enter the banking system at least not now but have a balanced portfolio of digital wealth stored online. So please, this isn't a thread for discussions about tax evasion. Who knows later I can move back into a digital currency online and feel it's stable enough long term I just don't want to be in BTC only now.

Got it. So, bottom line, I wouldn't trust any exchanges to hold much BTC or USD. Keep it all as BTC, and move it to paper wallets. Laminate the paper wallets and put them somewhere secure. You might want to try holding GOLD/SILVER. It is pretty stable and can be liquid if you use a pool account. Kitco.com has pool accounts. The nice thing about using GOLD/SILVER as storage medium is that if the value of the dollar goes down, the value of the gold/silver goes up. It's a great way to hold wealth and hedge against currency value loss.

I wouldn't use an exchange but there are other options like Ripple or NXT and possibly others like Qora/Exocoin in time.

Yeah I'm not 'sleep at night' relaxed about Bitcoin, I only want maybe 25% in BTC. Im not actually worried about the BTC, there are various ways i could store it, and even a decent wallet is pretty secure if I use if I spread the risk over a few wallets.


*I do have some gold/property but buying anymore forces me through the banking system in some way so best avoided.

No what im after is a way to store fiat and other commodities digitally away from the eyes of government. I keep mentioning NXT not cause I'm pushing it but because it could hold wealth as colored coins which I wondering is an option. I would love to justt send Cash to Ripple and have a bunch of fiats there and forget about it but I can see the issues maybe.


I thought my question was quite simple actually, I'm wondering why its not been understood?

Surely others must have a ton of Bitcoin and are wanting to stabilize the wealth gained from it but keep it out of the banking system?

I'm a big believer in Crypto currencies generally but you got to keep informed to know what the latest coins is and if Bitcoin is seriously threatened by it etc. I don't want the hassle anymore. I mean in a week or two Bitcoin could crash cause of some issue with it or another coin comes on the scene that makes everyone abandon BTC for it. No one even die hard believers would ever say Bitcoin is 'stable' ..