A large sum of money, where would you keep it?

[loadsofmoney]

Ok so I have had a couple of great years in Crypto. I won't be coy, I have about 1000 BTC. My problem is this is not a small deal to me, this is my life fortune so how can I keep it safe?


I am a big believer in BTC but I don't want to keep it all in BTC or any coin to be honest. I would still keep a percentage, how much is wise I'm not sure.


What I would like is a way to keep at least 60% in USD or other fiats in the digital realm. ( yeah I know but let's leave that argument aside)

So what is the best most secure way to store USD or other currencies for that matter without selling my coins and giving most of it to the Taxman?


My ideas have been too use Ripple and store USD and maybe Yuan but Ive heard you don't really own the contents of Ripple but are based on Trust, doesn't seem long term stable to me when I want to use it?


My other idea is that NXT might be able to store USD at some point and other commodities. I like this idea but am not sure how long term secure this is?


How would you try to keep you money in the digital realm safe and stable for the long term?

[1715247153]

1715247153

[PilotofBTC]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

[loadsofmoney]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

I'm not giving my digital money to the state.

Why is converting to USD or fiat, selling it? Don't you see bitcoin as a digital currency? Do you think people pay tax when they buy Dogecoins with BTC? Or convert their dollars to another fiat?

So yeah I want to store my wealth online, hopefully in the future we will have a far progressive way of dealing with digital currencies, possibly after a dollar collapse.


So the question remains, how would you store wealth online in my situation? I guess a portfolio of fiat and coins and the ability to jump out of fiat or coins if certain events looked like crushing my wealth.

[rme]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

[loadsofmoney]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

Dude, money safe in your house?

Or a Bank? Dude are you aware of the banking crisis going on in the world. Anyway that would mean paying taxes and who knows what legal problems if the state decides to come after this who have wealth from Bitcoin. suddenly I'm labelled a potential terrorist and my funds are frozen. I DONT want to go through the banking system or governments.


Is there anyone on here who is a true believer in crypto as a currency?

A blockchain is in my mind safe and free from third parties...   In what form I store them digitally and what system I use is my question, please don't derail the simple specific question I'm asking. I'm not asking for a debate on TAX or the banking system.

[RodeoX]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

+1 get a safe deposit box at the bank. This is what banks are actually good at. As far as hiding your money from the government... Why take that risk? If discovered you will face fines, late fees, jail time, and still owe the original tax.  Don't make the mistake that many make the first time they have real money. Look at how many rock stars and athletes wind up flat broke after making millions of dollars.

[rme]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

Dude, money safe in your house?

Or a Bank? Dude are you aware of the banking crisis going on in the world. Anyway that would mean paying taxes and who knows what legal problems if the state decides to come after this who have wealth from Bitcoin. suddenly I'm labelled a potential terrorist and my funds are frozen. I DONT want to go through the banking system or governments.


Is there anyone on here who is a true believer in crypto as a currency?

The blockchain is in my mind safe....

Ok, go for crypto but use Bitcoin, do not store USD in Ripple or similar, that is not safe for that amounts (in Ripple you trust "Gateways" a.k.a. banks).

[rme]

If you ask me I would do it this way:

TOTAL 1000 BTC

350 BTC -> 150000 USD into a Bank (Choose the most trusted one in your country).
550 BTC -> Paper wallets with multiple backups, BIP32, multisig, etc.
100 BTC -> Investments, mining, altcoins (not recommended), everyday expenses, online wallets, etc.

[loadsofmoney]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

+1 get a safe deposit box at the bank. This is what banks are actually good at. As far as hiding your money from the government... Why take that risk? If discovered you will face fines, late fees, jail time, and still owe the original tax.  Don't make the mistake that many make the first time they have real money. Look at how many rock stars and athletes wind up flat broke after making millions of dollars.

Ok fair point but at least I can decide when I want to declare my gains in a future time in a future place. I mean I could move to Singapore to avoid taxes etc. I'm not a US citizen just so you know. Plus I might sell some and pay taxes but I want to keep a lot online in a digital portfolio I guess is the best way to describe it.

Look I would just store in Bitcoin but its future long term potential has too many ifs and buts. I would love to store in a digital currency backed by Gold but that's not a reality.


Plus I could drip use it digitally and no one could ever know I bought something off overstock with my cash or whatever or the amount of digital wealth I own.

I just want to add. I'm not avoiding taxes cause I'm a scumbag. I genuinely think almost all taxes are criminal and a hindrance to economic development for all. I am a Libertarian but I don't want that to sidetrack the question.

[loadsofmoney]

If you ask me I would do it this way:

TOTAL 1000 BTC

350 BTC -> 150000 USD into a Bank (Choose the most trusted one in your country).
550 BTC -> Paper wallets with multiple backups, BIP32, multisig, etc.
100 BTC -> Investments, mining, altcoins (not recommended), everyday expenses, online wallets, etc.

Thanks for thinking about it and posting but I really can't take the risk of having my entire personal fortune in BTC. I'm think a liquid portfolio of cash and major coins, possibly digital commodities in NXT? Online.  Plus Cash will mean it's in the system and I will have to pay capital gains which if you guys aren't familiar with is a lot. We are talking as much as 50-60% for large amounts Potentially.

[Quora]

1. Electrum wallets & cold storage
2. Elliptic Lloyd's cold storage
3. Real estate in a great location

[loadsofmoney]

Ok, to be clear.


I want online storage, not outside internet though I might look at more secure wallets and cold storage for the bitcoin part, but I only want maybe 25% in BTC. What I want is A portfolio of BTC, Fiats and potentially commodities, all very liquid and anonymous.


I was thinking Ripple but am wondering if NXT asset exchange will be a good idea?


No banks, not just BTC, I can't just walk away from a portfolio of BTC and relax. sorry but I can't, any crypto at this point actually.

[PilotofBTC]

If you ask me I would do it this way:

TOTAL 1000 BTC

350 BTC -> 150000 USD into a Bank (Choose the most trusted one in your country).
550 BTC -> Paper wallets with multiple backups, BIP32, multisig, etc.
100 BTC -> Investments, mining, altcoins (not recommended), everyday expenses, online wallets, etc.

I would put the USD in a brokerage money market fund. It is just as liquid but will earn you more interest than a bank account.

[PilotofBTC]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

Why is converting to USD or fiat, selling it? Don't you see bitcoin as a digital currency? Do you think people pay tax when they buy Dogecoins with BTC? Or convert their dollars to another fiat?

Sure, BTC is a digital currency. It is either BTC or it is USD. It can't be both at the same time. That seems to be what you are implying.

As far as ForEx trading, yes, if you buy EUR with USD, then sell the EUR for USD at a profit, you owe tax. Don't be a tax evader. If you're in the US, unless the re-categorize BTC as currency, even if you spend BTC you owe tax on the gain. That said, you can also write off losses.

[RodeoX]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

+1 get a safe deposit box at the bank. This is what banks are actually good at. As far as hiding your money from the government... Why take that risk? If discovered you will face fines, late fees, jail time, and still owe the original tax.  Don't make the mistake that many make the first time they have real money. Look at how many rock stars and athletes wind up flat broke after making millions of dollars.

Ok fair point but at least I can decide when I want to declare my gains in a future time in a future place. I mean I could move to Singapore to avoid taxes etc. I'm not a US citizen just so you know. Plus I might sell some and pay taxes but I want to keep a lot online in a digital portfolio I guess is the best way to describe it.

Look I would just store in Bitcoin but its future long term potential has too many ifs and buts. I would love to store in a digital currency backed by Gold but that's not a reality.


Plus I could drip use it digitally and no one could ever know I bought something off overstock with my cash or whatever or the amount of digital wealth I own.

I just want to add. I'm not avoiding taxes cause I'm a scumbag. I genuinely think almost all taxes are criminal and a hindrance to economic development for all. I am a Libertarian but I don't want that to sidetrack the question.

You have some good points. And since you do not owe taxes until you spend them it may be in your own interest to hoard them and move to a tax heaven if they reach a huge figure. It may also be years before the IRS has the ability to do anything about bitcoin. Kinda like pirating music in the early days. We all got away with it.
But it could go wrong. It would make Satoshi cry if your good fortune with bitcoin turned into a costly legal mess. -------> 

[loadsofmoney]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

Why is converting to USD or fiat, selling it? Don't you see bitcoin as a digital currency? Do you think people pay tax when they buy Dogecoins with BTC? Or convert their dollars to another fiat?

Sure, BTC is a digital currency. It is either BTC or it is USD. It can't be both at the same time. That seems to be what you are implying.

As far as ForEx trading, yes, if you buy EUR with USD, then sell the EUR for USD at a profit, you owe tax. Don't be a tax evader. If you're in the US, unless the re-categorize BTC as currency, even if you spend BTC you owe tax on the gain. That said, you can also write off losses.

No of course I don't think I can have something in BTC and USD at the same time, I've no idea why you think I implied that.


I think you are being overly moral as 99.99% of trades on exchanges don't pay tax or do most who bounce between USD and BTC on exchanges like BTCe. Most people only ever think about it when it re enter the banking system and have to bite the bullet.

Well my aim is not to enter the banking system at least not now but have a balanced portfolio of digital wealth stored online. So please, this isn't a thread for discussions about tax evasion. Who knows later I can move back into a digital currency online and feel it's stable enough long term I just don't want to be in BTC only now.

[loadsofmoney]

If you want to store USD (or other fiat currency) the only safe way to do so is to keep them on a safe (in your house) or in a bank, other methods require a lot of trust on a third party.

+1 get a safe deposit box at the bank. This is what banks are actually good at. As far as hiding your money from the government... Why take that risk? If discovered you will face fines, late fees, jail time, and still owe the original tax.  Don't make the mistake that many make the first time they have real money. Look at how many rock stars and athletes wind up flat broke after making millions of dollars.

Ok fair point but at least I can decide when I want to declare my gains in a future time in a future place. I mean I could move to Singapore to avoid taxes etc. I'm not a US citizen just so you know. Plus I might sell some and pay taxes but I want to keep a lot online in a digital portfolio I guess is the best way to describe it.

Look I would just store in Bitcoin but its future long term potential has too many ifs and buts. I would love to store in a digital currency backed by Gold but that's not a reality.


Plus I could drip use it digitally and no one could ever know I bought something off overstock with my cash or whatever or the amount of digital wealth I own.

I just want to add. I'm not avoiding taxes cause I'm a scumbag. I genuinely think almost all taxes are criminal and a hindrance to economic development for all. I am a Libertarian but I don't want that to sidetrack the question.

You have some good points. And since you do not owe taxes until you spend them it may be in your own interest to hoard them and move to a tax heaven if they reach a huge figure. It may also be years before the IRS has the ability to do anything about bitcoin. Kinda like pirating music in the early days. We all got away with it.
But it could go wrong. It would make Satoshi cry if your good fortune with bitcoin turned into a costly legal mess. -------> 

Also the tax rules are developing and changing all the time with Bitcoin. I don't need to worry about the IRS as I live in Asia at the moment and tend to globe trot.

The current thinking is to treat BYC as a commodity so I would have to pay capital gains. Now what I might do is move small amounts every year later in the future to my bank and so am free of tax obligations, but for now I want a stable storage for my digital wealth. We all do I'm sure, maybe everyone doesn't have quite as much, many with a lot more that me, but we all tend to move own coins around during price drops etc. All I'm wanting is a long term strategy where I can store and walk away without having to check the Bitcoin price everyday...Personally I would love digital silver and gold if possible..

[PilotofBTC]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

Why is converting to USD or fiat, selling it? Don't you see bitcoin as a digital currency? Do you think people pay tax when they buy Dogecoins with BTC? Or convert their dollars to another fiat?

Sure, BTC is a digital currency. It is either BTC or it is USD. It can't be both at the same time. That seems to be what you are implying.

As far as ForEx trading, yes, if you buy EUR with USD, then sell the EUR for USD at a profit, you owe tax. Don't be a tax evader. If you're in the US, unless the re-categorize BTC as currency, even if you spend BTC you owe tax on the gain. That said, you can also write off losses.

No of course I don't think I can have something in BTC and USD at the same time, I've no idea why you think I implied that.


I think you are being overly moral as 99.99% of trades on exchanges don't pay tax or do most who bounce between USD and BTC on exchanges like BTCe. Most people only ever think about it when it re enter the banking system and have to bite the bullet.

Well my aim is not to enter the banking system at least not now but have a balanced portfolio of digital wealth stored online. So please, this isn't a thread for discussions about tax evasion. Who knows later I can move back into a digital currency online and feel it's stable enough long term I just don't want to be in BTC only now.

Got it. So, bottom line, I wouldn't trust any exchanges to hold much BTC or USD. Keep it all as BTC, and move it to paper wallets. Laminate the paper wallets and put them somewhere secure. You might want to try holding GOLD/SILVER. It is pretty stable and can be liquid if you use a pool account. Kitco.com has pool accounts. The nice thing about using GOLD/SILVER as storage medium is that if the value of the dollar goes down, the value of the gold/silver goes up. It's a great way to hold wealth and hedge against currency value loss.

[Quora]

NXT could be secure enough in several months, but considering the protocol, whole network infrastructure and community support, it most likely won't come close to Electrum, or perhaps Armory, in terms of security and possibilities/options/features.

Online storage has wider attack surface as I found out on Reddit Bitcoin while reading about DarkWallet browser plugin, and Blockchain.info online wallet and browser plugin.

[loadsofmoney]

I don't understand. How do you propose to convert BTC to USD without selling the BTC. That is how you convert it. You sell it. So, you would need to sell 60% of your BTC for USD. Of course, if you made a gain on that sale you owe gains taxes.

Of course, if you just want to keep the coin safe, move it to paper wallets. I suggest several wallets with 10BTC each.

Why is converting to USD or fiat, selling it? Don't you see bitcoin as a digital currency? Do you think people pay tax when they buy Dogecoins with BTC? Or convert their dollars to another fiat?

Sure, BTC is a digital currency. It is either BTC or it is USD. It can't be both at the same time. That seems to be what you are implying.

As far as ForEx trading, yes, if you buy EUR with USD, then sell the EUR for USD at a profit, you owe tax. Don't be a tax evader. If you're in the US, unless the re-categorize BTC as currency, even if you spend BTC you owe tax on the gain. That said, you can also write off losses.

No of course I don't think I can have something in BTC and USD at the same time, I've no idea why you think I implied that.


I think you are being overly moral as 99.99% of trades on exchanges don't pay tax or do most who bounce between USD and BTC on exchanges like BTCe. Most people only ever think about it when it re enter the banking system and have to bite the bullet.

Well my aim is not to enter the banking system at least not now but have a balanced portfolio of digital wealth stored online. So please, this isn't a thread for discussions about tax evasion. Who knows later I can move back into a digital currency online and feel it's stable enough long term I just don't want to be in BTC only now.

Got it. So, bottom line, I wouldn't trust any exchanges to hold much BTC or USD. Keep it all as BTC, and move it to paper wallets. Laminate the paper wallets and put them somewhere secure. You might want to try holding GOLD/SILVER. It is pretty stable and can be liquid if you use a pool account. Kitco.com has pool accounts. The nice thing about using GOLD/SILVER as storage medium is that if the value of the dollar goes down, the value of the gold/silver goes up. It's a great way to hold wealth and hedge against currency value loss.

I wouldn't use an exchange but there are other options like Ripple or NXT and possibly others like Qora/Exocoin in time.

Yeah I'm not 'sleep at night' relaxed about Bitcoin, I only want maybe 25% in BTC. Im not actually worried about the BTC, there are various ways i could store it, and even a decent wallet is pretty secure if I use if I spread the risk over a few wallets.


*I do have some gold/property but buying anymore forces me through the banking system in some way so best avoided.

No what im after is a way to store fiat and other commodities digitally away from the eyes of government. I keep mentioning NXT not cause I'm pushing it but because it could hold wealth as colored coins which I wondering is an option. I would love to justt send Cash to Ripple and have a bunch of fiats there and forget about it but I can see the issues maybe.


I thought my question was quite simple actually, I'm wondering why its not been understood?

Surely others must have a ton of Bitcoin and are wanting to stabilize the wealth gained from it but keep it out of the banking system?

I'm a big believer in Crypto currencies generally but you got to keep informed to know what the latest coins is and if Bitcoin is seriously threatened by it etc. I don't want the hassle anymore. I mean in a week or two Bitcoin could crash cause of some issue with it or another coin comes on the scene that makes everyone abandon BTC for it. No one even die hard believers would ever say Bitcoin is 'stable' ..

[loadsofmoney]

NXT could be secure enough in several months, but considering the protocol, whole network infrastructure and community support, it most likely won't come close to Electrum, or perhaps Armory, in terms of security and possibilities/options/features.

Online storage has wider attack surface as I found out on Reddit Bitcoin while reading about DarkWallet browser plugin, and Blockchain.info online wallet and browser plugin.

I guess I might have to diversify across platforms as well as actual categories of digital wealth. While I would love everything to be simple I guess I got to spread the risk in these 'pioneering times'.


Ok I will give an example of how i'm thinking...so far.


25% BTC spread over a bunch of wallets maybe some cold storage.

40% Fiats USD, YUAN, Rouble, etc They would give my portfolio stability of sorts but I would want to with the click of a mouse be able to convert to Bitcoin etc if a currency collapse or just opportunities arose. (My thought was Ripple, Crptsy when they have USD possible crazy though, possibly the other decentralized trading coins on the horizon, NXT, EXocoin, Qora which all promise to have colored coins etc.

35% Would love to have some digital commodities, even digital properties, again to make some attempt at diversification and stability. I understand this could be possible with NXT and other coins I mentioned, soonish.

Otherwise I'm open to advice...


Is there anywhere I can anonymously bounce/trade between precious metals and Bitcoin like Goldmoney etc?

[PilotofBTC]

Another option is an online pay service. You could put the money into Google Wallet... that would sort of make the cash digital. Not sure if there is a max wallet size. Not sure what countries they support.

But, if you don't trust banks (not sure why) then I'm not sure why you would trust google or some other online pay service.

[loadsofmoney]

Another option is an online pay service. You could put the money into Google Wallet... that would sort of make the cash digital. Not sure if there is a max wallet size. Not sure what countries they support.

But, if you don't trust banks (not sure why) then I'm not sure why you would trust google or some other online pay service.

Yeah I do trust banks. I trust them to report any money to the Taxman, use my money in a fractional reserve system to skim money with the help of the FED and central banks off the masses and generally be unstable in the coming economic collapse.

Google! why would I trust them with my privacy? Don't you follow the news? Damn it! Do you even know why Bitcoin was created?

[PilotofBTC]

Yeah I do trust banks. I trust them to report any money to the Taxman,

I thought you said this thread wasn't about tax evasion. I wish you luck sir. Bye.

[Quora]

Bitcoin's colored coins and similar developments are most secure and quickly progressing but I haven't researched much more about it so far.

I suggest you ask Reddit Bitcoin.

[Okele]

Here's a question:

With the IRS deeming that bitcoin would be considered property(?) wouldn't the value of a bitcoin be directly tied to the date that IRS deemed it so, and not the date it was actually acquired?

For instance, say the OP mined and acquired his Bitcoin when it first came out and it's value was really 0, and then it started moving etc. He would only be on the hook for the value of his bitcoin on the date the ruling was made going forward correct? As I recall the day the ruling was made, Bitcoin was 550+, I can't remember but it seems to me that the values cannot be grandfathered. Maybe Im wrong, but if my assumption is correct if he sold them all now, he would be able to file a capital gains loss on the value of the bitcoin from the date the ruling was made to todays value.

Is that wrong?

[greatway]

Just keep your cryptos how you are keeping now.  It hasn't been hacked yet so its safe.  Just do proper backups etc.

[lucasjkr]

I envy your problems...

The tax man is gonna be an issue, I would honestly say that you save yourself a potentially HUGE headache if you simply suck it up and pay them off like everyone else does. They will discover your cash at somepoint, if you deposit it into a bank account. But, the tax hit won't be as bad as it could be - that the fact that the IRS is treating bitcoins like an investment asset rather than as a currency - that means that most of the coins you sell qualify to be taxed as long term capital gains, which is pretty much the most advantageous way to be taxed.

So, lets say you have $425,000 and that your tax basis in all these coins is $0.00. You say you want to cash out 60% of your coinage. You'll end up with

$170,000 in Bitcoin
$255,000 in cash

I don't know what your other income is, so rather than speculate, I'll just assume you have no other income. You have $255,000 in LT gains. $255,000 income puts you in the 33% tax bracket (don't worry, you're not paying 33% tax), which means that your long term capital gains are taxed at the rate of 15%, so your tax liability will be around $38,250, leaving you with $216,750 at the end of the day.

What yo do with it from there is anybody's guess.... IRA? Max out your contribition to your 401K (if you have one)? Ordinary investments? Cash? Purchase a home or condo? And so forth.

Point is, yeah, the tax hit is a hit. But you're being taxed at the lowest possible rate there is for it. 15%.

If you earned that money from your job, you'd be looking to pay around $67,000 in federal income tax, state income tax (i didn't mention that above, because i have no idea what state you're in), not to mention social security and medicare (another 7-8% or so, averaging things out since you only pay SS tax on the first 117000 you earn.)  

[lucasjkr]

As for trying to cash out this amount, keep it safe AND keep it out of the knowledge of the IRS, you'd have a lot of challenges and steep, steep penalties when you get caught,

For instance, I assume that "safe" means deposited in an insured institution somewhere, and not just in a hole you dug in your back yard, correct?

So, you'd be needing to get $250,000 into your bank account without the bank reporting it. They have to report cash transactions of $10,000 or greater. That can be a single deposit, or a series of deposits if they think a series of deposits is all the result of a single transaction. And, they have to report if they suspect that you're structuring your deposits in such a way as to avoid those reporting requirements. The penalty for getting caught attempting to avoid any of the above to be egregious, like 50% or so.

Even then, when you get all the money into the bank without triggering any mandatory reporting things, you still have a problem. Interest income.It's not much, but if in 2013 you had $25 of interest income, and in 2014 you have $1,400 of interest, their computers will note the HUGE leap in amount of cash savings those amounts imply (at 0.7%, your $25 of interest implies you had on average $3500 in your savings account, whereas $1,400 in interest implies $200,000 in savings. So if there aren't any other items on your tax return that can explain the huge jump in in interest (sale of a house, sale of investments), then they're going to come knocking (well, really, they'll just send a letter) to find out where that huge increase came from.

I know a lot of people here will poo-poo me, but I do work for a lawfirm that does tax planning (amongst a lot of other related services) for high networth types, so i've seen and heard about a lot of the things that have caused them IRS difficulties.

Again, I would love to have the problems you have... And yeah, if it was me,  I would love to get to write a check that big to the IRS, just because if i owed them that much, that'd mean I'd made many times that for myself...

[loadsofmoney]

I actually said I wasn't American twice, so my problem isnt the IRS. My home country is as bad as most but isn't like the US in terms of connecting globally with other countries in terms of tax. I'm from Europe, living in Asia.


People still didn't address my question I think.

How about I put it into a simple sentence.




I want to diversify my BTC into other forms of Crypto but still within the anonymous  'crypto world' be it Ripple, NXT, Qora or something else, so how would you do it with the aim to stabilize your online wealth?

[PilotofBTC]

I actually said I wasn't American twice, so my problem isnt the IRS. My home country is as bad as most but isn't like the US in terms of connecting globally with other countries in terms of tax. I'm from Europe, living in Asia.


People still didn't address my question I think.

How about I put it into a simple sentence.




I want to diversify my BTC into other forms of Crypto but still within the anonymous  'crypto world' be it Ripple, NXT, Qora or something else, so how would you do it with the aim to stabilize your online wealth?

I thought I answered that.

There are only two crypto's that right now look to have any staying power and stability... that is Bitcoin and Litecoin. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of alt-coins. But, really, none of them are a good store of wealth at this time, but keep an eye on them a few might rise to the top.

[loadsofmoney]

I actually said I wasn't American twice, so my problem isnt the IRS. My home country is as bad as most but isn't like the US in terms of connecting globally with other countries in terms of tax. I'm from Europe, living in Asia.


People still didn't address my question I think.

How about I put it into a simple sentence.




I want to diversify my BTC into other forms of Crypto but still within the anonymous  'crypto world' be it Ripple, NXT, Qora or something else, so how would you do it with the aim to stabilize your online wealth?

I thought I answered that.

There are only two crypto's that right now look to have any staying power and stability... that is Bitcoin and Litecoin. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of alt-coins. But, really, none of them are a good store of wealth at this time, but keep an eye on them a few might rise to the top.

Other forms don't mean other coins, it means fiat and commodities held in Crypto realm, a point I've made about 5 times. 


Dude just go away. You've just be about as unhelpful a dick as someone could be. Go away..

[PilotofBTC]

I actually said I wasn't American twice, so my problem isnt the IRS. My home country is as bad as most but isn't like the US in terms of connecting globally with other countries in terms of tax. I'm from Europe, living in Asia.


People still didn't address my question I think.

How about I put it into a simple sentence.




I want to diversify my BTC into other forms of Crypto but still within the anonymous  'crypto world' be it Ripple, NXT, Qora or something else, so how would you do it with the aim to stabilize your online wealth?

I thought I answered that.

There are only two crypto's that right now look to have any staying power and stability... that is Bitcoin and Litecoin. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of alt-coins. But, really, none of them are a good store of wealth at this time, but keep an eye on them a few might rise to the top.

Other forms don't mean other coins, it means fiat and commodities held in Crypto realm, a point I've made about 5 times. 


Dude just go away. You've just be about as unhelpful a dick as someone could be. Go away..

I'm trying to be helpful you are not listening. FIAT is not Crypto! But, no worries I'm gone.

[Wbwallet]

Trade all your coins for gold and get the physical gold in a large safe in your house.. Get good insurance for theft.

[loadsofmoney]

I actually said I wasn't American twice, so my problem isnt the IRS. My home country is as bad as most but isn't like the US in terms of connecting globally with other countries in terms of tax. I'm from Europe, living in Asia.


People still didn't address my question I think.

How about I put it into a simple sentence.




I want to diversify my BTC into other forms of Crypto but still within the anonymous  'crypto world' be it Ripple, NXT, Qora or something else, so how would you do it with the aim to stabilize your online wealth?

I thought I answered that.

There are only two crypto's that right now look to have any staying power and stability... that is Bitcoin and Litecoin. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of alt-coins. But, really, none of them are a good store of wealth at this time, but keep an eye on them a few might rise to the top.

Other forms don't mean other coins, it means fiat and commodities held in Crypto realm, a point I've made about 5 times. 


Dude just go away. You've just be about as unhelpful a dick as someone could be. Go away..

I'm trying to be helpful you are not listening. FIAT is not Crypto! But, no worries I'm gone.

Your not cause you don't understand you can hold Fiat in various ways on Crypto platforms now and very soon. Ripple you can now, today, store USD in your wallet or a number of currencies completely anonymously if you buy them with BTC, connecting to a gateway has no need for trust or divulging personal info.

And the plan is to have Fiat and commodities on developing platforms starting even this week on NXT, and soonish on Qora, Ethereum to name a few.


So you are clueless and giving advice when you don't have even a basic knowledge of Crypto outside the four walls of your BTC wallet.

[railzand]

This is madness. They are all scams or will fail - fiat, ripple, nxt, ethereum, quora, altcoins.

Keep the bitcoin you have and stop messing about trying to lose it.

[Campsis]

If i was you:

Keep 500BTC in encrypted cold wallet in USB somewhere safe.
Cash out another 500BTC for $$ and 70% of it keep it in savings account and another 30% do whatever you want.


Awesome life, i wish i had 10btc. And you have 1000, im jelous..... if only i had 10 

[bl4kjaguar]

On ICBIT exchange, you can "hold US dollars" and earn interest, but it is all based in bitcoin; basically you are insuring your bitcoins' dollar value and getting paid for it. I think that this is the answer to your question.

Also, if you wanted to hold EUR, CAD, JPY, CHF, GBP, or certain equities, then you can use ICBIT in combination with 1broker.com to be fully diversified into fiat but still operating only in bitcoin. Gold and silver are also on 1broker.

Basically, you can hide all kinds of fiat wealth in a bitcoin-denominated account.

[Bit_Happy]

A large sum of money, where would you keep it?
If/when I ever get a chance:
I would divide it into at least 100 parts and give away almost 50% (seriously, giving money away is fun & good for your Karma)
The rest is a burden to keep safe, but at least I gave away almost half. 

[Campsis]

A large sum of money, where would you keep it?
If/when I ever get a chance:
I would divide it into at least 100 parts and give away almost 50% (seriously, giving money away is fun & good for your Karma)
The rest is a burden to keep safe, but at least I gave away almost half. 

That's very generous sir, i wish there were more people like you!

[Quora]

http://www.pfhub.com/report-record-amount-of-gold-silver-trading-for-bitcoin-562

[boomboom]

http://www.pfhub.com/report-record-amount-of-gold-silver-trading-for-bitcoin-562

good article!

[TheDoors]

It depends on how long you want to save them. I recommend to take exchange it to USD and take them to the bank and to place them as deposit. I hardly believe that USD will disappear in next ten years. 

[ViewSonic]

I keep my USD on a safe in my house. If I earn much more I'll store them in a bank, other methods are excluded

[Anotheranonlol]

Is there anywhere I can anonymously bounce/trade between precious metals and Bitcoin like Goldmoney etc?

You can use Counterparty. assets are available which represent physical gold via the issuer 'Bitcoin tangible trust'. You can trade them at anytime in a decentralised manner on top of bitcoins block chain and redeem for the precious metals they are backed by, thus escaping bitcoins volatility.

[TalkTalk]

http://www.pfhub.com/report-record-amount-of-gold-silver-trading-for-bitcoin-562

Thanks for that article.

[faninasir]

Keep the bitcoin you have and quit playing about trying to reduce it.
They are all frauds or will don't succeed - fiat, swell, ethereum, quora, altcoins.

[androz]

How would you try to keep you money in the digital realm safe and stable for the long term?

what about NoFiatCoin ? it's a digital currency backed by precious metals and can be redeemed for the same.

http://www.nofiatcoin.com/

I haven't read deeply all the thread but i guess that you could evaluate it for your purpose.
(not for a large amount of your asset, of course)

[muxxxamed]

If your story is true, invest in real estate or made your own business. If you need partner in Russia you can contact me.

[spring.yu]

If you ask me I would do it this way:

TOTAL 1000 BTC

350 BTC -> 150000 USD into a Bank (Choose the most trusted one in your country).
550 BTC -> Paper wallets with multiple backups, BIP32, multisig, etc.
100 BTC -> Investments, mining, altcoins (not recommended), everyday expenses, online wallets, etc.

I agree this ,aha...

[Quora]

http://www.pfhub.com/report-record-amount-of-gold-silver-trading-for-bitcoin-562

Thanks for that article.

You're welcome. It's from Blockchain.info weekly news round up blog.

[bl4kjaguar]

A leveraged bet can pay off big, so I suggest you sharpen up your trading skills and start chasing returns in a sensible and risk-averse manner.

Consider the TVIX, which today closed at 5.01 near incredible record lows:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=TVIX&p=W&b=5&g=0&id=p26873058609

You will regret not taking a sensible position in TVIX or other VIX funds and VIX notes.

To protect your money, simply invest in protection (VIX). It's almost as volatile as bitcoin, so at these prices you are likely to get a healthy return.

[_Miracle]

I would keep the lowest amount that I need to be liquid in USD (never as store of value).
Real Estate/rentals (but I'm biased)
A foundation for foster children (also biased)
Precious metals, art and classic vehicles.  

*Can't believe I forgot to add bitcoin (in my possession).

[armin22]

Or give 1 to me?

[Este Nuno]

If you're going to keep a percentage of it in currency, consider diversifying it in to different major currencies. Like EUR, JPY, CHF ect. I probably wouldn't put it all in USD unless I had a strong reason to believe USD specifically was headed up.

[vn10vn]

Dude, you have 1000 bitcoins, and all you can do is sit around and worry about how to store it? Go party, be happy, share the wealth with your loved ones. Some people don't even have money to buy food for the day. It's time to relax and be happy with what you have. You can travel the world. You can buy real estate and rent out for monthly income. You could buy a bar, hotel, restaurant somewhere. My suggestion is to travel, go to 3rd world countries and see how THEY live. Get offline and back in the real world and get some perspective. Your worries are over dude.

[armin22]

Dude, you have 1000 bitcoins, and all you can do is sit around and worry about how to store it? Go party, be happy, share the wealth with your loved ones. Some people don't even have money to buy food for the day. It's time to relax and be happy with what you have. You can travel the world. You can buy real estate and rent out for monthly income. You could buy a bar, hotel, restaurant somewhere. My suggestion is to travel, go to 3rd world countries and see how THEY live. Get offline and back in the real world and get some perspective. Your worries are over dude.

+100000000

This is well said. But before you do this, let me be one of your loved ones. <3

[vn10vn]

lll

[armin22]

+100000000

This is well said. But before you do this, let me be one of your loved ones. <3

Hey -- I don't even own 1 bitcoin. I read, I watch, I want to jump in the game...but I can't afford to, I have other responsibilities.
I can't mine, because I can't afford to buy the hardware either.

This is something that I find very interesting about crypto, it's talked up as the Robin Hood type solution to decentralization, but I don't see any evidence that this would do anything other than make the rich richer and the poor poorer, just as it's always been, not any kind of financial salvation but just a new devil to replace the devil we already know.

Poor people don't have computers or smartphones, they don't have money to invest in crypto or mining. They live day to day on whatever earnings they can scrape up and spend it all on their basic survival needs. So what right does crypto have to declare itself the new savior?

To me crypto is just the perfect invention for that spoiled brat upperclass kid who did nothing but play graphically intense computer games and now has devoted his hardware to mining...or that preppy rich kid who was forced by his parents to be a stock broker and now has discovered crypto and investing all his easy money into that.

Maybe I'm just jealous...hmmm....but at least I'm not dumb enough to believe all the bullshit cryptocurrency hype that it's going to make the world a better, more equal place....Yah ryt.

I'm not rich, neither is my family. I started with 0.01BTC and with day trading have 1.68BTC, whats wrong with having a little fun anyways? But seriously, what's your point, and did you just quote to to attempt calling me a brat?

[vn10vn]

I'm not rich, neither is my family. I started with 0.01BTC and with day trading have 1.68BTC, whats wrong with having a little fun anyways? But seriously, what's your point, and did you just quote to to attempt calling me a brat?

Nothing personal, man, I just appreciated your compliment, that's why I quoted.
I've become disillusioned to the whole crypto scene, and wanted to express myself and see if I got any quality feedback.

I'm still waiting for the one true coin, the Shitcoin, so I can put all my money into it and watch someone like Mark Karpeles steal everything from me. Yah, thats what I want to do.

[OCG]

I'm not rich, neither is my family. I started with 0.01BTC and with day trading have 1.68BTC, whats wrong with having a little fun anyways? But seriously, what's your point, and did you just quote to to attempt calling me a brat?

Well done! Imagine if you'd started with 1 BTC ;-)
I wish I could follow your 'portfolio'?

To get back to the original discussion, I would buy a business like an existing, money generating e-commerce site with 10-20% of the BTC and let it roll...
The rest; put 40% in gold, some in USD and the rest in BTC.

[vn10vn]

Well done! Imagine if you'd started with 1 BTC ;-)

Exactly. Rich get richer, poor get poorer, where's the decentralization and altruistism? There is none. It's just another Wall Street fueled by greed.

[EternalWingsofGod]

Cold storage on multiple USB sticks with multisig would probally be the safest way
Go with 2/3 in case one breaks and store in different locations you know

[Quora]

There are many different people in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Decentralized solutions are being developed and I hope they will be widely used in several months.

I'm not rich financially and trading is helping me acquire multimedia production equipment I needed for a longer time now while I also plan to invest and donate whenever I can. I've learned a lot from the Bitcoin community over the past 9 months and those few opportunities for entry saved my life. More opportunities are being created for people from many different walks of life.

[bl4kjaguar]

You will regret not taking a sensible position in TVIX or other VIX funds and VIX notes.

To protect your money, simply invest in protection (VIX).

It's a good time to repeat this. You should invest in protection ASAP.

[madken7777]

Gold is still the safest bet. It has been tested for over 1000 years and gold still considered money by many countries/civilization.


Bitcoin is still in its infancy stage.

[ThePurplePlanet]

NXT and proof of stake is not secure as it seems. Old stake holders who sold can produce a longest chain using there stake and reverse the chain. Same can happen with old exchanges who holded a lot of coins at some point in the history. The best way to diversify are fiat IMO or stocks or gold

[bl4kjaguar]

I would keep it on ICBIT, where you can earn 20% interest in $ terms before the year is out, without ever having to touch cash.

ICBIT thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.960;topicseen

[RodeoX]

Well done! Imagine if you'd started with 1 BTC ;-)

Exactly. Rich get richer, poor get poorer, where's the decentralization and altruistism? There is none. It's just another Wall Street fueled by greed.

Well, what did you think was going to happen? Bitcoin is money, that's all. There is no altruism in the protocol, it is utterly free of morality. However, there is a HUGE difference with bitcoin. Bitcoin is completely fair. That is not to say you are given anything. But both you and Bill Gates compete on the same field. He may be able to afford more than you, but he can't game the system like the rigged NYSE. NO ONE has control over bitcoin and that is the fair part.

[AcoinL.L.C]

Well done! Imagine if you'd started with 1 BTC ;-)

Exactly. Rich get richer, poor get poorer, where's the decentralization and altruistism? There is none. It's just another Wall Street fueled by greed.

Well, what did you think was going to happen? Bitcoin is money, that's all. There is no altruism in the protocol, it is utterly free of morality. However, there is a HUGE difference with bitcoin. Bitcoin is completely fair. That is not to say you are given anything. But both you and Bill Gates compete on the same field. He may be able to afford more than you, but he can't game the system like the rigged NYSE. NO ONE has control over bitcoin and that is the fair part.

Not true. Currently very easy to move BTC market. Even a million dollar flash dump of coins could move the market. Imagine if Satoshi dumped his 600,000+ coins. BTC would lose nearly its entire value.

To OP:
I wouldn't keep more than 40% of your BTC in actual bitcoins. To be completely honest I can't see BTC going above the $1000-1500 for a long, long time, if ever. Don't get greedy. Keep 5% in fiat to sort everyday bills that you can't pay with BTC just yet (IE Groceries). Keep your fiat in cash, theres no need to use a bank unless your looking for a loan. You can always cash deposit if a large payment is due. I would put 5% in BTC related investments (Such as CBTC, SCRYPT or other established crypto business's), they typically pay high returns in dividends. I would keep 15% in silver and 10% in gold, silver is typically more stable than gold, and also has a much higher potential for increase. Buy physical gold/silver and store it yourself. You can buy silver/gold with your BTC through many channels, so it would never go through a bank. I would keep 5% in the chinese Yuan which has historically performed very well, and will only increase in value as China continues to move forward into the future. I would also suggest putting 10% towards mining (I would suggest PBMine, very cheap rates and nice site). I would also keep 10% in LTC, if BTC goes up LTC will most surely follow. I would keep the last 10% in a hotwallet (use a very good password!). You can use this 10% to purchase stuff off of overstock.com, direct TV (if you are near them) and other similar places to avoid having to use fiat.



So it'l look like this:
30% BTC (Cold storage)
5% Fiat
5% BTC Related Investments
15% Silver
10% Gold
5% Yuan
10% Mining (If you purchase mining contracts with PBmining il split the referal bonus with you 50/50)
10% LTC
10% BTC hot wallet

[icezer0z]

You could send it to my wallet

[icezer0z]

I would honestly hire a lawyer or financial professional help and go the correct route. It's the right thing to do, even though it seems you are against the government and banking system, it will keep you out of any future stress, court, jail time, fines, drug overdose, possible suicide...

[AD_Infinitum]

Well done! Imagine if you'd started with 1 BTC ;-)

Exactly. Rich get richer, poor get poorer, where's the decentralization and altruistism? There is none. It's just another Wall Street fueled by greed.

Well, what did you think was going to happen? Bitcoin is money, that's all. There is no altruism in the protocol, it is utterly free of morality. However, there is a HUGE difference with bitcoin. Bitcoin is completely fair. That is not to say you are given anything. But both you and Bill Gates compete on the same field. He may be able to afford more than you, but he can't game the system like the rigged NYSE. NO ONE has control over bitcoin and that is the fair part.

Not true. Currently very easy to move BTC market. Even a million dollar flash dump of coins could move the market. Imagine if Satoshi dumped his 600,000+ coins. BTC would lose nearly its entire value.

To OP:
I wouldn't keep more than 40% of your BTC in actual bitcoins. To be completely honest I can't see BTC going above the $1000-1500 for a long, long time, if ever. Don't get greedy. Keep 5% in fiat to sort everyday bills that you can't pay with BTC just yet (IE Groceries). Keep your fiat in cash, theres no need to use a bank unless your looking for a loan. You can always cash deposit if a large payment is due. I would put 5% in BTC related investments (Such as CBTC, SCRYPT or other established crypto business's), they typically pay high returns in dividends. I would keep 15% in silver and 10% in gold, silver is typically more stable than gold, and also has a much higher potential for increase. Buy physical gold/silver and store it yourself. You can buy silver/gold with your BTC through many channels, so it would never go through a bank. I would keep 5% in the chinese Yuan which has historically performed very well, and will only increase in value as China continues to move forward into the future. I would also suggest putting 10% towards mining (I would suggest PBMine, very cheap rates and nice site). I would also keep 10% in LTC, if BTC goes up LTC will most surely follow. I would keep the last 10% in a hotwallet (use a very good password!). You can use this 10% to purchase stuff off of overstock.com, direct TV (if you are near them) and other similar places to avoid having to use fiat.



So it'l look like this:
30% BTC (Cold storage)
5% Fiat
5% BTC Related Investments
15% Silver
10% Gold
5% Yuan
10% Mining (If you purchase mining contracts with PBmining il split the referal bonus with you 50/50)
10% LTC
10% BTC hot wallet

+1 (excluding the LTC part). Needs a bit more diversification though.   

[Kprawn]

Go the Bill Gates way, and give a large portion of it away. {Then you will worry less and you can call in favors later}

Keep some for a rainy day in paper wallets, in a safe in a bank.

Keep some online for daily use.

Buy some stuff, you worked hard enough for it. {Accept if you got it through illegal means, then you will have to bend over and pick up the soap, in a Jail cell somewhere}

Whatever you do, it would be better for you, to pay your tax's and then relax worry free on an island somewhere, with a cocktail or 2. 

[EternalWingsofGod]

Go the Bill Gates way, and give a large portion of it away. {Then you will worry less and you can call in favors later}

I like that one why worry about it when you can give it to someone else to worry about it and call it in later

[TwinWinNerD]

How did this turn out? Did you sell before the big rise in price?

[morphtrust]

to the OP I would talk with someone at europac as the guy who is the CEO there has and holds the same values you do, and they take bitcoin through bitpay now to work with them, international banks that let you store your money in gold and convert it back and forth at whim and when stored in gold it is in real tangible gold that they sell to a buyer when you want to convert to fiat, also Peter Schiff was the first person I heard talk about putting a crypto together that is backed by real gold so he might be on the forefront of working on that or could be nudged by someone to move that direction.

**edit to add links for the lazy

http://www.europacmetals.com/
http://www.europac.net/
https://europacbank.com/