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Author Topic: [ANN] RealCoin - Targeted to the IM world!  (Read 9758 times)
genjix
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January 18, 2012, 09:18:08 PM
 #121

Been getting messages like this all day:

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I don't understand RealCoin, at all. What features does it have, that Bitcoin does not? Why can't you direct all this effort to Bitcoin? Develop a better Bitcoin client, secure exchanges, etc...

Is the killer feature "Being more fair to late adopters"? Then why should anyone take the risk and adopt it now, if they can just wait?

I'm really in the dark here.

"The Bitcoin Consultancy was contracted (paid) by TheGlobber (Antonios Metaxiotis) to develop RealCoin."

Which part of this isn't obvious? We are a software development house focusing around bitcoin and crypto-currencies. This is what we do. I guarantee the software is solid. That is all.
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January 18, 2012, 09:36:00 PM
 #122

Been getting messages like this all day:

Quote
I don't understand RealCoin, at all. What features does it have, that Bitcoin does not? Why can't you direct all this effort to Bitcoin? Develop a better Bitcoin client, secure exchanges, etc...

Is the killer feature "Being more fair to late adopters"? Then why should anyone take the risk and adopt it now, if they can just wait?

I'm really in the dark here.

"The Bitcoin Consultancy was contracted (paid) by TheGlobber (Antonios Metaxiotis) to develop RealCoin."

Which part of this isn't obvious? We are a software development house focusing around bitcoin and crypto-currencies. This is what we do. I guarantee the software is solid. That is all.

Sorry for the misunderstanding (I skip way more than I read ... sometimes leading to bad consequences).
genjix, I have no qualms with you.

Please do not pm me, use ron@bitcoin.org.il instead
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January 18, 2012, 10:02:46 PM
 #123

You can chat with him for only $0.49/min:
http://travel.bitwine.com/advisors/29377-theglobber

What are you wearing, goober?  Cheesy
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January 18, 2012, 10:15:39 PM
 #124

I highly recommend you guys to postpone launch till you can release this FULLY OPEN SOURCE...

Tweet For Coins http://uptweet.com
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January 18, 2012, 10:25:48 PM
 #125

Then why not help RLC with your ideas since you find similarities.

I have read a lot of your posts and you seem to have a good grasp of economics.

The economic side of things within the RLC is still liquid in terms of a set of rules (which still doesnt not exist) so why not get involved and have your say in what you believe would be best model to follow.

I was trying to come out as friendly (and i really am) but most of the posts are negative. You seem to be calm and logical in your replies so please feel free to post more of the ideas you have and get more involved to help RLC take a rigid shape.

As i have explained, you might not see plenty of differences between the two clients (although there will be a lot in the near future) but still a coin is different from another coin in terms of the economy as well. Doesnt have to be just the tech side of the things to be different..

Anyway thanks for your reply.


Yes, I do see the similarities.  But, your project is still missing the key point:  The coins do not have guaranteed/backed value.  I can't buy 100 RLC from you for $10, then go and sell them back to you for $10 a year from now.  Without that guarantee, the value of the coins isn't stable.
Sure, I'm willing to give suggestions.

In my opinion, this is what needs to happen to make your RealCoins viable:
- Register your company as a money service business in the US.  This will help build trust with the people who will be exchanging USD for your coins.
- Generate 1 billion coins total.  I just picked that number, but whatever is chosen, it needs to be relatively high, at least in the hundreds of millions.
- Generate all coins in the genesis block, and have them sent to an address you control.
- Guarantee to buy back any and all coins at a specific USD value ($1 per coin would be an excellent metric, IMO, as it would make conversions for merchants quite easy/nonexistant).  This would stabilize the value of the coins, and would be the main factor of differentiation from Bitcoin.  You still have the same decentralized ledger and potentially anonymous platform, but with a stabilized value of the currency as well.
- Set a block reward that you can afford to pay, out of pocket, for at least a year.  Bitcoins mined at $2.50/ea bottomed out at about 8 TH/s worth of hashing power.  That's $18,000/day worth of coins.  IMO, it is necessary to have at least 1 TH/s of power protecting the network.  To do this, you need to offer an incentive equal to Bitcoin mining.  Assuming a guaranteed value per coin of $1, you'd need to offer 2,250 RLC per day, or 15.5 RLC per block (if you have difficulty set up for a block every 10 min, as Bitcoin does).
- If you don't have close to $1M to pay out to miners over the course of the next year, find an investor who does.  Once you show them the potential of the project to be the next PayPal, you'll probably draw their interest, though I imagine it would still be very difficult to get an investor willing to risk on this sort of thing.
- Once at least 17 million of the coins are out in circulation, you'd be making enough interest off the USD deposited to pay for the miners to sustain 1 TH/s of protection.  Anything beyond that 17 million is profit to be shared amongst the company's shareholders.

It's an extreme plan, but extreme is needed in order to not be "just another alt-coin".  This sort of plan would provide a very useful service, as a stable USD alternative that is both liquid and has the potential to be anonymous/tax-free if a person wants it to be.
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January 18, 2012, 10:38:48 PM
 #126

Thanks to all for your valuable input.

A more appropriate time to discuss the different aspects of it and try out the client would be at the launch.

Till then, i wish all of you the best.
Too late, you already torpedoed this project before the launch. Educate yourself a little better next time...or don't. You don't seem to be cut out for this world.



Dude, do you have anything kind to say to anyone ever?  The ridiculous leap you make between someones ambitious project and not being "cut out for this world" is not only unkind, but it's absolutely unfounded and therefore stupid.

I've seen a lot of your comments and you're not as intelligent as you think you are, regardless of the validity of your arguments --  that is, if you can refrain yourself from ad homs.   Concentrating on the faults of others only strengthens the suspicions I have regarding your perspective on life in general.  The world is cold, isn't it?




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January 18, 2012, 10:58:24 PM
 #127

if you're generating all coins at genesis and garauntee a $1 buy, you could also put all coins for sell at $1 ... in this way no investors are needed and $1 per coin is the lowest it ever gets, the coins bought for $1 create the garaunteed repurchase fund... And this is nearly the purest form of a "Reserve" currency .... except I wouldn't do it against $s, you'd best do it against some other fixed reference... ie. BTC but you then could not put the reserve ratio 1:1 if you have a billion generated or whatever you went with.  BTC people might actually like this because it would assist deflating bitcoin and thus raising it's value... if this coin is actually used much.  The inherent problem with a reserve currency however is if the value of your reserve asset falls too low and people come back to claim the reserve at lower than market value.
Investors are needed to pay for the miners.  Nothing more.  Because, you're right, investors aren't needed if you're generating all coins at genesis, and sell them each for $1.  You'd have exactly as many dollars as coins to repay for, which means you could always repay all of the outstanding coins from your reserves.

And here's what I mean by "pay for the miners".  Each block has a 15 RLC reward, right?  But you've already generated all RLC's in the genesis block, so the only way to pay the miners is by removing coins from the genesis address.  Inevitably, most miners will simply resell those coins for USD as soon as they are generated, so you need a sizable investment to start with to be able to pay for those miners.

Backing it with BTC is a bad idea.  Then, the RLC is just as volatile as BTC is.  USD is very non-volatile, at least compared to BTC, which is why it makes a good backing.  That would be the whole goal with RLC - a non-volatile Bitcoin-like currency.

People might argue against the USD, but for the time being, it is a much more stable currency to use.  Merchants don't have to set prices for their products according to an exchange rate on some website, and consumers already have it in their mind what the purchasing power of the dollar is.  Yes, the USD is inflationary, but think about what that will eventually do for the coins - they will become worth less and less, but SLOWLY.  People would keep RealCoins just the same as they would keep money in their checking account.  And eventually, when all of the RLC's are bought, they could potentially be worth more than just 1 USD each - if they are useful and highly sought after - because of scarcity, and only 1 billion of them being available.  And if 1 billion of them are in circulation, then the exchange rate will be relatively stable, even if there is a value increase per coin, simply because of the massive exchange volume that would likely occur.
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January 18, 2012, 11:31:19 PM
 #128

Investors are needed to pay for the miners.  Nothing more.  Because, you're right, investors aren't needed if you're generating all coins at genesis, and sell them each for $1.  You'd have exactly as many dollars as coins to repay for, which means you could always repay all of the outstanding coins from your reserves.

And here's what I mean by "pay for the miners".  Each block has a 15 RLC reward, right?  But you've already generated all RLC's in the genesis block, so the only way to pay the miners is by removing coins from the genesis address.  Inevitably, most miners will simply resell those coins for USD as soon as they are generated, so you need a sizable investment to start with to be able to pay for those miners.

Backing it with BTC is a bad idea.  Then, the RLC is just as volatile as BTC is.  USD is very non-volatile, at least compared to BTC, which is why it makes a good backing.  That would be the whole goal with RLC - a non-volatile Bitcoin-like currency.

People might argue against the USD, but for the time being, it is a much more stable currency to use.  Merchants don't have to set prices for their products according to an exchange rate on some website, and consumers already have it in their mind what the purchasing power of the dollar is.  Yes, the USD is inflationary, but think about what that will eventually do for the coins - they will become worth less and less, but SLOWLY.  People would keep RealCoins just the same as they would keep money in their checking account.  And eventually, when all of the RLC's are bought, they could potentially be worth more than just 1 USD each - if they are useful and highly sought after - because of scarcity, and only 1 billion of them being available.  And if 1 billion of them are in circulation, then the exchange rate will be relatively stable, even if there is a value increase per coin, simply because of the massive exchange volume that would likely occur.

USD for the time-being is probably not the best argument, using BTC helps support their claim of wanting to coincide and support BTC --AND-- they would be assisting in making BTC less volatile.

I would propose that instead of rewarding miners with generates, reward them only with tx fees, since the value is more stable vs. BTC miners should probably like this, yes it means they will likely get less than 15 RLC but what they do get doesn't plummet into oblivion price wise like most alts... I mean right now if you say got 1000DVC their value is nearly in the trash, but if the coin is at a 1:4 ratio or some such with BTC then once they have at least 4 RLC they are guaranteed to get 1 BTC and that I would think is something they can live with.  In any case the reserve ratio should be published and set in stone, changing the ratio after the fact easily breaks the system.  Setting it vs. USD is easiest because USD will always outnumber the ratio of this coin, setting it vs. BTC gets a little tougher because BTC is destructable and if the ratio falls below the number of BTC in existence then some RLC would never be touchable.

Incidentally going with a reserve backing forces this reserve exchange to not be able to handle all "pairs" with the reserve, the reserve could only be traded between RLC and USD  if USD was the reserve.

Incorporated in a business legit country is very important, I agree with that... this system in the Carribean is not something I would gamble with (ala. MyBitcoin).

Edit:  Additionally the reserve exchange could not profit (fees) on the reserve coins traded at ratio, trades above this could have fees however and this could be used to in time repay the initial investors and then later for profit.
You still don't get it.

If it is backed by BTC, it is just as volatile value-wise as BTC is.  Therefore, it offers no competitive advantage vs Bitcoin.  Therefore, there is no reason for it to exist.

The differentiating factor of RealCoin vs Bitcoin is that RealCoin would be backed by something non-volatile (or at least, significantly less volatile than Bitcoin is), so that merchants and the like wouldn't have to be afraid of their "coins" losing value after selling some of their products in exchange for them.

If you back them by Bitcoins, you lose that competitive advantage, and like I said before, there would be no reason for RealCoins to exist at that point.
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January 19, 2012, 12:00:47 AM
 #129

Really interesting points from both of you.

Some of the things you have mentioned have already been included. More (in the economical side of things) will be added.

As for $ or BTC, it is $ for now, primarily as you mentioned because of the stability and also because of the $ being able to be used and invested directly unlike BTC.

I am also of the opinion that the current structure of only 8.2mil RLC is better than the total amount of RLC being premined because it brings miners into play with an active role.
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January 19, 2012, 12:01:34 AM
 #130

BTC backed as a reserve still differentiates this coin
Where does it say this is backed by BTC?

Buy & Hold
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January 19, 2012, 12:03:32 AM
 #131

I am also of the opinion that the current structure of only 8.2mil RLC is better than the total amount of RLC being premined because it brings miners into play with an active role.

Why?  The purpose of miners is to secure the network.  If they are compensated from premined coins or newly generated coins has no real relevance.

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January 19, 2012, 12:06:47 AM
 #132

Not BTC but fiat ($).


BTC backed as a reserve still differentiates this coin
Where does it say this is backed by BTC?
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January 19, 2012, 12:09:40 AM
 #133

Not BTC but fiat ($). nothing

Where does it say this is backed by BTC?

Fixed your post.  You aren't backing newly minted coins with anything.  Also for the love of all that is digital can you start quoting like a normal person.  
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January 19, 2012, 12:12:22 AM
 #134

I am also of the opinion that the current structure of only 8.2mil RLC is better than the total amount of RLC being premined because it brings miners into play with an active role.

Why?  The purpose of miners is to secure the network.  If they are compensated from premined coins or newly generated coins has no real relevance.



(Sorry for the weird quoting. Just the way i reply to emails.  Wink)

It is relevant when you think of who pays for the premined coins or the newly generated ones.

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January 19, 2012, 12:16:20 AM
 #135

All I can say if you guys gave realsolid shit over solidcoins, then to keep it balanced this coin/project should get even more shit it just doesnt seem like anything other than reselling tap water with a different label.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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January 19, 2012, 12:18:23 AM
 #136

All I can say if you guys gave realsolid shit over solidcoins, then to keep it balanced this coin/project should get even more shit it just doesnt seem like anything other than reselling tap water with a different label.

Um have you read the thread?
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January 19, 2012, 12:20:15 AM
 #137

I am also of the opinion that the current structure of only 8.2mil RLC is better than the total amount of RLC being premined because it brings miners into play with an active role.

Why?  The purpose of miners is to secure the network.  If they are compensated from premined coins or newly generated coins has no real relevance.

+1

Just a few weeks ago, TheGlobber didn't even understand why there's a need for miners: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55805.0
Yet, he comes here to announce an alt currency that adds nothing to bitcoin except for a huge premine and a promise that there are tons of cool stuff in the works. This smells of greed and looks pretty much like a scam to me.

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January 19, 2012, 12:24:32 AM
 #138

I am also of the opinion that the current structure of only 8.2mil RLC is better than the total amount of RLC being premined because it brings miners into play with an active role.

Why?  The purpose of miners is to secure the network.  If they are compensated from premined coins or newly generated coins has no real relevance.

+1

Just a few weeks ago, TheGlobber didn't even understand why there's a need for miners: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55805.0
Yet, he comes here to announce an alt currency that adds nothing to bitcoin except for a huge premine and a promise that there are tons of cool stuff in the works. This smells of greed and looks pretty much like a scam to me.

I still dont get many things around mining. I admitted that a couple pages back as well.

But what you keep not understanding is the fact that this is a prelaunch and i am just announcing a new altcoin. Thats my job. My job also is to answer to questions as good as i can. Thats all i have to do.

As you see I am listening to what people say and try to learn as more as possible and hear suggestions/ideas that i will pass on to the developers and the investors.

No need for this negativity.
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January 19, 2012, 12:30:34 AM
 #139

Thanks to all for your valuable comments!

All suggestions/ideas have been noted down.

A bit late here so i ll catch up with you tomorrow.
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January 19, 2012, 12:31:23 AM
 #140

I still dont get many things around mining. I admitted that a couple pages back as well.

But what you keep not understanding is the fact that this is a prelaunch and i am just announcing a new altcoin. Thats my job. My job also is to answer to questions as good as i can. Thats all i have to do.

As you see I am listening to what people say and try to learn as more as possible and hear suggestions/ideas that i will pass on to the developers and the investors.

No need for this negativity.

You are probably new to this forum. Negativity is the norm around here. Smiley

Read up on Solidcoin and you will understand why your premine + "RealCoin Fund" is basically just Solidcoin's CPF. Nothing new.

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