So if China doesn't matter to BTC, what is causing the price to stay down?

[fryarminer]

Bitcoin price has reached its maximum. There is no way it can grow significantly in the next few years. Actually it could decrease if the speculative bubble deflates (i.e. if the "investors" that are holding bitcoins realize that the price is not going to grow and decide to sell).

Where do you get this from? You're the ONLY person I've ever heard to say this!

[turvarya]

Bitcoin price has reached its maximum. There is no way it can grow significantly in the next few years. Actually it could decrease if the speculative bubble deflates (i.e. if the "investors" that are holding bitcoins realize that the price is not going to grow and decide to sell).

I am pretty sure, that there were People who said the same, when BTC reached 200 USD for the first time last year or any other significant marks since the beginning of Bitcoins.
According to your Forum-Profil, you are not Long enough in the game to know the rules(if there are any).

[Ibistru]

Where do you get this from? You're the ONLY person I've ever heard to say this!

I am pretty sure, that there were People who said the same, when BTC reached 200 USD for the first time last year or any other significant marks since the beginning of Bitcoins.
According to your Forum-Profil, you are not Long enough in the game to know the rules(if there are any).

Just ask yourselves how much of the current Bitcoin price is due to its utility (i.e. its use as currency for buying goods and services) and how much is due to the speculative bubble (i.e. people buying and holding coins only because they are sure price will rise). Think about this and you will get the answer.
Could bitcoin price rise still more in the next few months? Sure, but the more it will rise, the harder it will crash once the bubble will burst.

[iluvpie60]

It is all in the title really.



For those who say it isn't China, what is it then? 

The price is 100% higher than where it was a year ago before China got involved in the first place.
I think a 100% gain in a year is pretty damn good.
$440/btc is strong.

I know everyone likes to talk about how it went from A to B in price, but sadly the price is now at C(down).


Maybe it did get overinflated with China, or maybe all the major hacks/leaks drove prices down. I feel like their isn't any kind of frenzy driving it or much going for it now. It might be possible to gain another 100% in a year, but most things in life don't do that again.

I feel like most people think that the price of BTC has to go up, but in reality you can just have the same BTC trading hands more per day and it would accomplish the same thing.

My major concern and example is, since most major corporations that accept BTC do it through BitPay and all the other things like that, BitPay is getting out of BTC and into fiat ASAP so they can accept more BTC on behalf of their clients. SO they are constantly selling off their BTC to exchanges and wherever else they have to dump it right? That is what the future is right now(until companies hold their BTC themselves for the most part).

So now that we know BitPay has to dump BTC all the time, we get into the same BTC trading hands more frequently than before. If a company is holding BTC themselves they might keep it for weeks or months. BitPay is dumping it probably every day at least a few times(So they can try to get a higher prices during different parts of the day). So that being said, the same 1 full BTC that normally is held for months before it gets traded, is now being traded more frequently. Thus the price will stay stable roughly/go down slightly when they sell, as there is competition to sell(and BitPay has to sell, their business model depends on it IMO).  So that is how I see the current make up of BTC. Big companies and corporations are going to take it over(they already have) and will drive the price down due to too much supply being listed to get into Fiat constantly.

Now this may fix itself if more people accepted BTC and they obviously wouldn't always have to convert into BTC, but I feel like this is where BTC gets the bottleneck that is keeping it down right now.

[turvarya]

Where do you get this from? You're the ONLY person I've ever heard to say this!

I am pretty sure, that there were People who said the same, when BTC reached 200 USD for the first time last year or any other significant marks since the beginning of Bitcoins.
According to your Forum-Profil, you are not Long enough in the game to know the rules(if there are any).

Just ask yourselves how much of the current Bitcoin price is due to its utility (i.e. its use as currency for buying goods and services) and how much is due to the speculative bubble (i.e. people buying and holding coins only because they are sure price will rise). Think about this and you will get the answer.
Could bitcoin price rise still more in the next few months? Sure, but the more it will rise, the harder it will crash once the bubble will burst.

You are wrong for a simple reason: You think it's an easy question.
I don't know, where the Price will go, there are too many likely Scenarios that could happen.

[BADecker]

The problem is that people don't look at everything as money. If people would stop considering fiat as money, and consider everything else in the world as money, their whole attitude would change.

If you trade Bitcoin for anything else in the world, world governments want to force you to give them a little fiat for making the trade. They want you to think that fiat is a special kind of money because the banks control it. So, whatever trading you do, even if it has nothing to do with fiat, governments and banks want to force you to go out and get some fiat and give it to them, simply because you made some kind of a trade.

Bitcoin is or could be a form of money that is entirely outside of the domain of fiat. Yet, almost any trading done using Bitcoin traffics within the domain of fiat at least a little, thereby making it part of the fiat system, sort of. The reason for this is that fiat has become so widespread, that it touches almost everything in the world and in life. And the few things that fiat does NOT touch, are talked about by bankers and governments in ways that suggest that they would want to them into the realm of fiat; and they will get around to bringing them in sooner or later if they can.

There is one method that I know of, that is respected by governments and bankers around the world, that remains outside of the fiat system, if it is used properly. The reason it remains outside of the fiat system is that the bankers want something else to fall back on whenever they need it this way. And they DO use it all the time between and among themselves. Also many rich of the world use it.

You hear about certain people and businesses, that are in some cases among the biggest in the world, yet they pay no income taxes for one reason or another. Many of these people and business use this strategy in everything that they do. This strategy or method is held almost sacred in the eyes of the super wealthy.

What does this have to do with Bitcoin and the price of Bitcoin? If common people wanted to use this strategy method entirely, implementing it in everything they do, while dropping the use of fiat at the same time, and trading using bitcoins for money among themselves, done properly, they would NOT be liable for taxes. As it is right now, without special implementation of some special strategy, if a person does NOT use fiat at all, he just might be able to eliminate fiat taxes from his life.

The point is, when the common people of the world finally figure out what this strategy/method is - I am not going to explain any more about it here; it's in use all over the place in many different forms - and when they implement it among themselves properly, then will be the time that they will TRULY start to throw off the various fiats of the world and become free. When they do this, Bitcoin will start to come into the true value position that it SHOULD hold.

Remember. Neither Bitcoin nor fiat have any inherent, intrinsic value in themselves. Their value is in the fact that people hold them to be valuable. Make Bitcoin valuable by making it the popular "money" of the world... or at least of your little section of the world.

[BillyBobJoe]

I am new here so I don't know what I am talking about and most likely will be labeled as a troll.

What I see is bunch of people sitting on their BTCs waiting for the price to sky rocket, again. Sure, history is full of those kinds of stories. NOT!

If this board is any indication, almost nobody is using BTC as a currency. They are sitting on BTCs in much the same way as somebody who is stashing cash, Fiat, in their mattress expecting it to grow.

Why should it grow in value if almost nobody is using it?

The idea that BTC is a currency is a joke.

[LiteCoinGuy]

It is all in the title really.



For those who say it isn't China, what is it then? 

The price is 100% higher than where it was a year ago before China got involved in the first place.
I think a 100% gain in a year is pretty damn good.
$440/btc is strong.

agree, i love the price and i love all the vc money going in. its the best time bitcoin ever had.

[RodeoX]

Why do people think the price is "down"? It is exactly correct for the market forces that determine the price. It might be lower than you wish, but it is not low.

[Ibistru]

I am new here so I don't know what I am talking about and most likely will be labeled as a troll.

What I see is bunch of people sitting on their BTCs waiting for the price to sky rocket, again. Sure, history is full of those kinds of stories. NOT!

If this board is any indication, almost nobody is using BTC as a currency. They are sitting on BTCs in much the same way as somebody who is stashing cash, Fiat, in their mattress expecting it to grow.

Why should it grow in value if almost nobody is using it?

The idea that BTC is a currency is a joke.

+1

well, to be more precise, Bitcoin is used as a currency by many sellers and buyers (me included).
But you are correct when you read in this forum that many, many self-styled "investors" just buy bitcoins to hold them, hoping that the price will rise. And this is the textbook definition of a speculative bubble. So yes, the Bitcoin price is clearly inflated beyond what it would be considering its "normal" usage (i.e. as a currency).
Will the bubble burst? Of course, the only question is when. It will be a pleasure to see so many noobs losing their money.

[bryant.coleman]

In my opinion, it is the Mt Gox effect. The impact was huge, affecting 7% of all the coins in circulation. It is like someone stealing $1,200 billion from the US treasury. Will take a lot of time to neutralize its effect.

[BittBurger]

given that about 3600 new coins are mined every day.

This

[MarketNeutral]

The price is down in the short-term, but for many of us, the price of bitcoin is very much up. 

[iluvpie60]

The price is down in the short-term, but for many of us, the price of bitcoin is very much up. 

Yes, but for anyone new coming into it, it is very worrisome,  hence less adoption.

[dkunion]

Chinese influence has to BTC, you must always look Chinese face.

[miffman]

bitcoin needs to counter daily inflation and we're all still recovering from gox. And the biggest part of it all is that people aren't spending as they used to, a lot of it is profit motivated now

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin price has reached its maximum. There is no way it can grow significantly in the next few years. Actually it could decrease if the speculative bubble deflates (i.e. if the "investors" that are holding bitcoins realize that the price is not going to grow and decide to sell).

Somewhat true.

It has plateaued for the time being, however, Wall Street investors are coming soon which will cause a big spike.  Bitcoin already listed on Bloomberg so that prerequisite step already done.

Once Wall Street adopts it, who knows what will happen in the next few years.

[counter]

It is all in the title really.


Yeah, hacks, gox, sheep market place, china news, bad news here, bad news there, bad news bear. IDK.



I remember seeing that China accounted for the majority of BTC volume on any given day. In the U.S. and Europe we really don't need BTC because our governments aren't exactly confiscating our wealth on a massive scale, or really even almost any small scale(some peoples opinion might be that they are, but nice opinion bro).


So if everyone is always going around saying China doesn't matter, why do you keep having you repeat the mantra? It obviously has a pretty big effect, and if they actually ban it outright banana sandwich like no tomorrow then we will really see a big dip ay?



For those who say it isn't China, what is it then? 

I'd say it is an issue of speculation and people wondering what will happen next.  Alot went on in a short period of time so I think it is not very surprising that there is a fair amount of stagnation.  I think the volatility or lack there of presently is a good thing.

[vipgelsi]

The price is down in the short-term, but for many of us, the price of bitcoin is very much up. 

Yes, but for anyone new coming into it, it is very worrisome,  hence less adoption.

Yup pennies to hundreds

[PeterReid]

It is all in the title really.


Yeah, hacks, gox, sheep market place, china news, bad news here, bad news there, bad news bear. IDK.



I remember seeing that China accounted for the majority of BTC volume on any given day. In the U.S. and Europe we really don't need BTC because our governments aren't exactly confiscating our wealth on a massive scale, or really even almost any small scale(some peoples opinion might be that they are, but nice opinion bro).


So if everyone is always going around saying China doesn't matter, why do you keep having you repeat the mantra? It obviously has a pretty big effect, and if they actually ban it outright banana sandwich like no tomorrow then we will really see a big dip ay?



For those who say it isn't China, what is it then? 

The Chinese own a lot of Crypto so they are always going to matter, They can effect the markets and often do.