Nintendo's rejection of gay relationships gives fans a lot to be angry about

[bryant.coleman]

It wasn't propaganda, why would anyone suggest that ?

Even if it wasn't a propaganda film, it was used as such by the gay lobby. Selected as the best film during the 59th British Academy Film Awards, that too ahead of films such as Crash and Capote.

[Spendulus]

It wasn't propaganda, why would anyone suggest that ?

Even if it wasn't a propaganda film, it was used as such by the gay lobby. Selected as the best film during the 59th British Academy Film Awards, that too ahead of films such as Crash and Capote.

EG, it WAS propaganda - with the caveat being that it is entirely possible that's not what the producer, director or actors intended.  Pul-eez.

Pdreamer, stop the lecturing and the defense.  I just quoted a long string of accepted gay movie products.  You want more?  Dirk Bogart?  I mean, what's exactly NEW here?  True love between two cowboys?  You want to know why I wouldn't go see it?  It's very simple.  Those two cowboys don't turn me on.  We're not exactly talking Julie Roberts or Sharon Stone here.

Therefore, the movie isn't interesting to me.  At all.  And someone on an internet forum wants now to turn Nintendo games for children into HumpBack PupTent?

Let's get real here.

[Mike Christ]

I really don't see what's so hard about telling them to fuck off and go make their own homosexual friendly game instead of harassing somebody to do the job for them :S reminds me actually of people that complain about Bitcoin and keep trying to campaign to change it, yet there's nothing stopping them from going out and making their own currency instead.

It's hard because they're a business selling a product; if they tell even 1% of the NA/EU crowd to "fuck off", they risk losing millions of potential customers.  As a business, you don't want someone else coming in and taking those profits you could've made, nor do homosexuals want to use different products merely to accommodate; there is no guarantee of greater quality through doing this, and considering it's Nintendo, the odds are stacked toward Nintendo providing the superior product.  Segregation will look very bad on Nintendo's image if they decide to make a homo-friendly version, which limits the possibility of success they'll have even if they try it.

It's a really simple fix--more work went into preventing same-sex relationships than if they'd left it alone--so I don't see the issue in accommodating a minority for higher profits.  That is, unless the anti-homosexuals start making noise.  I'm not sure which group is more ardent about inclusion/exclusion.

[practicaldreamer]

 You want to know why I wouldn't go see it?  It's very simple.  Those two cowboys don't turn me on.  We're not exactly talking Julie Roberts or Sharon Stone here.

Hey, believe it or not, they didn't turn me on either  
Moreover, I don't rate a film (as a work of art) on its ability to arouse me sexually.
Is the idea that we ought to only ever go watch films starring beautiful women - what with us being chest thumping red blooded males ?

Pul-eez.

That didn't half make you sound camp, Spendulus  
[I'm just teasing sweety  )

[Lethn]

I really don't see what's so hard about telling them to fuck off and go make their own homosexual friendly game instead of harassing somebody to do the job for them :S reminds me actually of people that complain about Bitcoin and keep trying to campaign to change it, yet there's nothing stopping them from going out and making their own currency instead.

It's hard because they're a business selling a product; if they tell even 1% of the NA/EU crowd to "fuck off", they risk losing millions of potential customers.  As a business, you don't want someone else coming in and taking those profits you could've made, nor do homosexuals want to use different products merely to accommodate; there is no guarantee of greater quality through doing this, and considering it's Nintendo, the odds are stacked toward Nintendo providing the superior product.  Segregation will look very bad on Nintendo's image if they decide to make a homo-friendly version, which limits the possibility of success they'll have even if they try it.

It's a really simple fix--more work went into preventing same-sex relationships than if they'd left it alone--so I don't see the issue in accommodating a minority for higher profits.  That is, unless the anti-homosexuals start making noise.  I'm not sure which group is more ardent about inclusion/exclusion.

These days I honestly can't tell the difference, I realise the business argument for it, but here's the thing, sometimes you just have to say "No we're not changing it" not because of any kind of personal reasons but because I have seen so many games ruined by people who pressure games companies into it or they do it to themselves and then they ended up ruining the game for everybody else. Maybe they should release a DLC or expansion pack with lots of content to make them happy but these people clearly have never seen a game developed before and think it's just a case of writing a few lines or pressing some buttons and then it's magically created.

In case you couldn't tell, I couldn't give a shit about either side, I'm just feeling sorry for the poor developers who are getting dragged into this because of trivial bullshit that these political pressure groups are looking around to complain about, I never thought I'd feel bad for the employees of a big game developer.

[bryant.coleman]

It's hard because they're a business selling a product; if they tell even 1% of the NA/EU crowd to "fuck off", they risk losing millions of potential customers. 

Then this will be a no win situation for Nintendo. They have promised that they will include homosexuality in the next version of the game. They will lose a lot of customers in Japan, Russia, India.etc. Much more than 1%.

[TECSHARE]

I really don't see what's so hard about telling them to fuck off and go make their own homosexual friendly game instead of harassing somebody to do the job for them :S reminds me actually of people that complain about Bitcoin and keep trying to campaign to change it, yet there's nothing stopping them from going out and making their own currency instead.

It's hard because they're a business selling a product; if they tell even 1% of the NA/EU crowd to "fuck off", they risk losing millions of potential customers.  As a business, you don't want someone else coming in and taking those profits you could've made, nor do homosexuals want to use different products merely to accommodate; there is no guarantee of greater quality through doing this, and considering it's Nintendo, the odds are stacked toward Nintendo providing the superior product.  Segregation will look very bad on Nintendo's image if they decide to make a homo-friendly version, which limits the possibility of success they'll have even if they try it.

It's a really simple fix--more work went into preventing same-sex relationships than if they'd left it alone--so I don't see the issue in accommodating a minority for higher profits.  That is, unless the anti-homosexuals start making noise.  I'm not sure which group is more ardent about inclusion/exclusion.

You forgot the 3rd opinion. People who are fucking tired of both sides telling everyone what to do via force.

[Spendulus]

 You want to know why I wouldn't go see it?  It's very simple.  Those two cowboys don't turn me on.  We're not exactly talking Julie Roberts or Sharon Stone here.

Hey, believe it or not, they didn't turn me on either  
Moreover, I don't rate a film (as a work of art) on its ability to arouse me sexually.
Is the idea that we ought to only ever go watch films starring beautiful women - what with us being chest thumping red blooded males ?

Pul-eez.

That didn't half make you sound camp, Spendulus  
[I'm just teasing sweety  )

Bullshit.  Here's where you are dead wrong.  We are talking ENTERTAINMENT.   What we do for fun.  Not as a moral or self-educational duty. 

And I'm flat telling you that your attitude in ridiculing people that don't share your views about this "wonderful work of art" is not so smart.  Or to put it alternately, you might be able to produce an argument that would interest people in seeing the movie, but you have not so far done so.

I gave you many, many examples of successful portrayal of alternate sexualties in movies and as you are aware, there are countless others.  Any of these I think I could explain why someone would want to go see it. 

Going back to the classics, I can easily articulate an argument why most anyone might enjoy seeing the movie "Some Like it Hot".  I believe it would be a convincing argument to many.

[practicaldreamer]

Hey, if you don't want to watch the film, then don't watch it - I really don't care one way or the other. But if you do (and I take it you haven't as yet - so I'm a little bemused how the fuck you can pass an opinion on it either way) I can garauntee you that I for one will not run around the BitcoinTalk forum shouting "Spenders a bender" - regardless of wether that actually be the case or not 



But I had to laugh at this :-

Going back to the classics, I can easily articulate an argument why most anyone might enjoy seeing the movie "Some Like it Hot".  I believe it would be a convincing argument to many.

I love that film also - but where in that film is there any portrayal of homosexuality  ? Or would that be where Tony Curtis and Jack Lemon put on dresses to escape the villains ?

Jesus wept 

[Spendulus]

Hey, if you don't want to watch the film, then don't watch it .....

Going back to the classics, I can easily articulate an argument why most anyone might enjoy seeing the movie "Some Like it Hot".  I believe it would be a convincing argument to many.

I love that film also - but where in that film is there any portrayal of homosexuality   ? Or would that be where Tony Curtis and Jack Lemon put on dresses to escape the villains ?

...Just using it as an example.  Many, many others I am sure you are aware of.

No argument similar has been presented that is convincing to many such that they care to go see Brokeback.  Actually it's the reverse of "if you have not seen it you cannot judge it."

[Wilikon]

Dolphins player fined, sent for educational training after tweet about Michael Sam


I wonder if any other front office in the league would have cracked down this swiftly. Miami sweated through an endless PR forest fire last year over bullying and “locker-room culture” with the Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin mess. They probably decided early vis-a-vis Sam that they weren’t going to tolerate the smallest spark.

And this spark was small. Don Jones’s crime was two tweets, each exactly one word long, after Sam was chosen by St. Louis in the seventh round: “OMG” and “Horrible.” Maybe that was about the pick itself, maybe it was about Sam kissing his boyfriend on TV after he got the call. Either way, after rapidly being fined, barred from team activities until he attends “educational training,” and publicly scolded in separate statements by his coach and GM, Jones issued a formal apology crafted in fluent publicist-ese:

“I want to apologize to Michael Sam for the inappropriate comments that I made last night on social media. I take full responsibility for them and I regret that these tweets took away from his draft moment. I remember last year when I was drafted in the seventh round and all of the emotions and happiness I felt when I received the call that gave me an opportunity to play for an NFL team and I wish him all the best in his NFL career. I sincerely apologize to Mr. Ross, my teammates, coaches, staff and fans for these tweets. I am committed to represent the values of the Miami Dolphins organization and appreciate the opportunity I have been given to do so going forward.”

No doubt the NFL leaned on the Dolphins to hit Jones hard in the interest of sending a zero-tolerance message to the broader league, but like I said up top, I’m sure they didn’t have to lean heavily. People were grumbling on Twitter yesterday that even the slightest criticism of Sam for being gay is now verboten whereas it was A-OK to mock Tim Tebow for his faith, even on the field during the game. Right, but that’s simple economics. Gay-rights activists are organized and willing to use their economic power to punish the NFL if it doesn’t protect one of their own; social conservatives really aren’t beyond statements of disapproval from the Family Research Council etc. Mozilla made the same, perfectly rational judgment in choosing to, ahem, accept Brendan Eich’s “resignation.” Keeping Eich on could have triggered boycotts, caused business deals to collapse, and given the company a lingering black eye in its industry. Firing him wouldn’t. There was, I’m sure, an initial backlash of thousands of social conservatives uninstalling the browser, but after a few weeks the company’s survived the storm and has clear sailing ahead. That wouldn’t have been the case if they’d kept Eich. The NFL understands that.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/05/12/dolphins-player-fined-sent-for-educational-training-after-tweet-about-michael-sam/comment-page-1/#comments

[practicaldreamer]

 Actually it's the reverse of "if you have not seen it you cannot judge it."

What ? - you have not seen it but can judge it ? How does that work ?

It might teach you a bit of empathy, watching that film. Its as moving a portrayal of loneliness as I think I've seen - the way that circumstances beyond our control can take us into a lonely and isolated place.
   Or is loneliness a "predicament" that doesn't afflict straight people ?



Anyhow, I don't know how I've come to be an advocate for a cowboy film about a couple of gay blokes  - so I'll leave it there I think.

[umair127]

It's hard because they're a business selling a product; if they tell even 1% of the NA/EU crowd to "fuck off", they risk losing millions of potential customers. 

Then this will be a no win situation for Nintendo. They have promised that they will include homosexuality in the next version of the game. They will lose a lot of customers in Japan, Russia, India.etc. Much more than 1%.

I think you should include the Euro countries that are heavy into religion as well, there is alot of people that would be angry and will not support it.

[u9y42]

It's hard because they're a business selling a product; if they tell even 1% of the NA/EU crowd to "fuck off", they risk losing millions of potential customers. 

Then this will be a no win situation for Nintendo. They have promised that they will include homosexuality in the next version of the game. They will lose a lot of customers in Japan, Russia, India.etc. Much more than 1%.

I think you should include the Euro countries that are heavy into religion as well, there is alot of people that would be angry and will not support it.

I doubt there would be much of a concern in Europe over that; there is a difference between a country being "heavy into religion" and actually fanatical enough to want to force others to do things their way. Further, those European countries often have very old populations, that for the most part won't even know, or care, what game we're talking about. And the younger part of the population that would know/care is typically much less religious.

[Spendulus]

Actually it's the reverse of "if you have not seen it you cannot judge it."

What ? - you have not seen it but can judge it ? How does that work ?

It might teach you a bit of empathy, watching that film....

See, your attitude is the problem, not the solution.  You've just said "It might teach you a bit of empathy..."  (without knowing anything about me...)   You're on board with movies and media as a vehicle for propaganda for social viewpoints and causes.

I said flat out I'd go to movies for ENTERTAINMENT, and you are asserting that someone might should go see movie XYZ because it would be some kind of learning experience.  Maybe I want to go see guys shoot a bunch  of bad guys or crash cars or fall out of airplanes and get saved in mid air by hot chics with rocket packs.  

this is not really very complicated....

[Spendulus]

.... Of course it doesn't make you a homophobe if you don't watch Brokeback Mountain on account of a lack of titties - protesting outside the cinema and calling for the film to be banned makes you a homophobe, but that doesn't....

You may have just made my point a lot better than I did...

[Wilikon]

This may be because I can't be fucked to read the thread, but I don't get what y'all are arguing about.

Spendulus, it doesn't look to me like pd is saying you should go and see such-and-such a film for some moral purpose, just recommending some of them that you might have overlooked. Of course it doesn't make you a homophobe if you don't watch Brokeback Mountain on account of a lack of titties - protesting outside the cinema and calling for the film to be banned makes you a homophobe, but that doesn't.

You forgot the 3rd opinion. People who are fucking tired of both sides telling everyone what to do via force.

No-one is talking about force here, with the exception of market forces which I thought y'all loved? Nintendo has every right to make a game where they restrict relationships to only be between people of the opposite sex, gamers have the right to buy it (or not), activists have the right to complain to Nintendo, journalists have the right to write about it in the press, gamers have the right to buy (or not) other Nintendo games based on this, or any other criteria they like. Where's the problem here?

Personally, I think it's quite a nasty thing for Nintendo to have done. It's quite different for a film to only have straight characters (who are their own people) than for a game (in which your character is supposed to represent you and you choose their actions) to disallow certain fundamental aspects of your character. Again, they have every right to make it that way, but I think it's a dick move. I wouldn't have bought the game either way, but if enough other people think it's a dick move then they will rightly lose revenue.

Also, every film that isn't just mindless entertainment is "propaganda" - most films have a message of some kind, "propaganda" now seems to mean "a message I don't agree with".

There are no differences between a film and a game as both need to follow a script, a storyline. You need to accept the "film universe" or the "game universe" for them to entertain you. There is an interaction in a game with your keyboard and joystick, but to believe there are none while watching a movie is an illusion. If Nintendo did something disgusting, so did all the movies you never liked. You do not control the game universe, you participate in it, the same way you loved how you felt the first time you got what the Matrix universe was, or when your little world in your head  flipped upside down while watching Fight Club, for example. Sure, some games are propaganda as much as some films.

Now It is impossible to read the Nintendo developers mind but it is a stretch to conclude what they did was in purpose to "attack" the gay community. Somebody got offended and had the lobby power behind to make this a fake scandal, pushing Nintendo to apologize for a nothingburger with extra tossed salad and mayo...

[umair127]

They did the whole gay thing with spartacus was very disgusting, but I accepted it, and thats what has been the problem, while we had to learn to accept it.  But we have to fight and stop accepting it or we will have a world where woman that are men are giving birth in the hospital

[Wilikon]

They did the whole gay thing with spartacus was very disgusting, but I accepted it, and thats what has been the problem, while we had to learn to accept it.  But we have to fight and stop accepting it or we will have a world where woman that are men are giving birth in the hospital

We are already living in a world where a baby can have 3 biological parents so...

[noviapriani]

Ok sorry but this means the ends of days must be coming, I mean the lady or the guy who won that european show and she was dressed as a woman with a beard, I mean serious, how the funkkk can you justify yourself as being both parts of the sex?