Fractional Reserve Lending IS NOT bad - its unavoidable

[Ozziecoin]

The difference between Bitcoin and your typical pump and dump, however, is that the underlying innovation cryptocurrency is fundamentally groundbreaking and revolutionary which makes bitcoin an interesting case.

And this is exactly why we're doing everything we can to introduce the concept of the Blockchain to the community over here in Australia.  

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[Ozziecoin]

You asked "Explain me one thing: how can I pump up ozziecoin when it has zero value..."
I explained.
You forget to thank me and start sperging about fiat.  Again.

Rudeness

You still haven't explained this:

While the minimum wage was equivalent to 14 per cent of the mean house price in 1993, it is now at less than 7.5 per cent.
ACTU secretary Dave Oliver said a 250 per cent increase in average house prices in the past 20 years had made it impossible for those earning minimum wages to buy a home.
"For those on a low wage, home ownership is a now pipedream," he said. "Someone on a minimum wage of $622 per week has enough to cover their basic costs and that's about it. These workers tell us it's impossible to save up a deposit, let alone afford the weekly repayments."
Mr Oliver said the minimum wage had increased by 91.2 per cent from 1993 to last year, and would have needed to rise by 254.7 per cent - $1154.42 a week or $60,029.84 a year - to keep up with house prices.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/actu-to-seek-rise-in-minimum-wages-as-home-ownership-becomes-a-pipedream-20140324-35eb1.html#ixzz31Sg7UvWC

[four fingers tapping on table repeatedly...]

Please share with us your wisdom.  lol.

[NotLambchop]

Inflation steals from everyone.  But it's worse than that - rising property prices steal from the young and disadvantaged people.

Ridiculous.  The young are more than compensated for inflation with rising wages.  Did you ever work?  Did you get raises?  Were you raises keeping up with inflation?  Or...

Funny...  somehow young people's wages haven't kept up:

...

Lol, you're gauging the standard of living by house prices?  That's your basket?
Bro, do you realize that population has at least doubled since you were a kid?  For house prices to stay the same, we'd have to make houses smaller (we don't) or colonize another planet for moar, u know, 4 Lebensraum

And the price of rice in China is...  lol  Seriously, explain to me why house prices have to be smaller?  Are we running out of land?  Are your kids getting smaller?

Did you think real estate prices are going up because there's a greater supply and a lower demand?  If twice as many people need to share this planet, each one of us would, naturally, get a smaller slice.  Since selfish pricks like myself aren't willing to let squatters onto our land, that means the rest needs to be divvied up into smaller parcels still.  So TL;DR yeah, real estate prices are going up.  It has nothing to do with FRB or inflation, and everything to do with increased demand without an equally greater supply.  To somewhat make up for it, a ...computer, let's say, costs a bit less than its equivalent did in the 90s.  Basic stuff again, bro, I shouldn't have to explain this

I lived in NYC for a big chunk of my life.  Rent is pretty brutal there -- I'm sure I was paying a bigger portion of my income for my apartment than some guy in Iowa.  Though I wouldn't say that my standard of living was lower.
See how things work?  

[twiifm]

Here is a real options trader worth following: http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/

Yeah I'm a big fan of Taleb.  What does this have to do with the topic? 

Well if you understood Taleb then you would realise that options trading is not an option.

Umm, I don't change my life just cause I like someones writing.  Taleb made his money trading options so I don't know what you are referring to.  He just had an extreme way to trade options

[Ozziecoin]

Here is a real options trader worth following: http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/

Yeah I'm a big fan of Taleb.  What does this have to do with the topic? 

Well if you understood Taleb then you would realise that options trading is not an option.

Umm, I don't change my life just cause I like someones writing.  Taleb made his money trading options so I don't know what you are referring to.  He just had an extreme way to trade options

Nah mate, he bets against people like you. lol.

[Ozziecoin]

Ridiculous.  The young are more than compensated for inflation with rising wages.  Did you ever work?  Did you get raises?  Were you raises keeping up with inflation?  Or...

Funny...  somehow young people's wages haven't kept up:

...

Lol, you're gauging the standard of living by house prices?  That's your basket?
Bro, do you realize that population has at least doubled since you were a kid?  For house prices to stay the same, we'd have to make houses smaller (we don't) or colonize another planet for moar, u know, 4 Lebensraum

And the price of rice in China is...  lol  Seriously, explain to me why house prices have to be smaller?  Are we running out of land?  Are your kids getting smaller?

Did you think real estate prices are going up because there's a greater supply and a lower demand?  If twice as many people need to share this planet, each one of us would, naturally, get a smaller slice.  Since selfish pricks like myself aren't willing to let squatters onto our land, that means the rest needs to be divvied up into smaller parcels still.  So TL;DR yeah, real estate prices are going up.  It has nothing to do with FRB or inflation, and everything to do with increased demand without an equally greater supply.  To somewhat make up for it, a ...computer, let's say, costs a bit less than its equivalent did in the 90s.  Basic stuff again, bro, I shouldn't have to explain this

I lived in NYC for a big chunk of my life.  Rent is pretty brutal there -- I'm sure I was paying a bigger portion of my income for my apartment than some guy in Iowa.  Though I wouldn't say that my standard of living was lower.
See how things work?  

Hey beef chops, care to cite any real data to support what you say?  Or we're supposed to just believe you? 

[NotLambchop]

^Real data?  Real data showing that real estate prices go up when demand doubles?  Or that NYC rent is high?  Those things should be evident on their face to most post-pubescent earthlings without serious learning disabilities.  

You seem to establish a direct causal relationships between FRB and rising hose prices without citing any data (or even hinting at the underlying reasoning ...or the household solvent which caused said reasoning to take place), but you want me to produce evidence that the price of a house will be higher when more people want to buy it?  RU 4realz?

[Ozziecoin]

^Real data?  Real data showing that real estate prices go up when demand doubles?  Or that NYC rent is high?  Those things should be evident on their face to most post-pubescent earthlings without serious learning disabilities.  

You seem to establish a direct causal relationships between FRB and rising hose prices without citing any data (or even hinting at the underlying reasoning ...or the household solvent which caused said reasoning to take place), but you want me to produce evidence that the price of a house will be higher when more people want to buy it?  RU 4realz?

Put up the data mate or we're going to conclude you're full of it.  I've cited data on my site: https://ozziecoin.com/index.php/fractional-reserve-banking-explained/

You can see M3 and dilution happening.  It's flowing into asset prices. So far you offer... nothing.

[RoadTrain]

https://ozziecoin.com/index.php/fractional-reserve-banking-explained/

This is pure nonsense. Wealth isn't measured by money supply, it's measured by net assets.
FRB doesn't add net assets to economy, because with an asset it also creates a liability.
The only monetary thing that can add net assets to economy is government deficit spending.

Not to say that you confuse money supply inflation with price inflation (the latter is one that makes people poorer, not the former).

[Ozziecoin]

https://ozziecoin.com/index.php/fractional-reserve-banking-explained/

This is pure nonsense. Wealth isn't measured by money supply, it's measured by net assets.
FRB doesn't add net assets to economy, because with an asset it also creates a liability.
The only monetary thing that can add net assets to economy is government deficit spending.

Not to say that you confuse money supply inflation with price inflation (the latter is one that makes people poorer, not the former).

I think I'm not the one confused here.

Please read: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-debt-fuels-bubbles-2014-5?IR=T

[Noruka]

Wrong.
Fractional reserve lending is fraud.

How is it fraud? Care to elaborate?

You are inflating the original supply of store of value in everyone's system essentially stealing value out of everyone's pocket over time to benefit those that are able to lend early and lend at fractional reserves.

Thats fraud

[NotLambchop]

^
Now that you found out that fiat money is inflationary, you can avoid being a chump by investing it or spending it on goods and services -- not stuffing it in your mattress and expecting it to retain its value.

The cool kids know this, and have been doing this "investing and spending" thing all along.  Give it a shot

[RoadTrain]

https://ozziecoin.com/index.php/fractional-reserve-banking-explained/

This is pure nonsense. Wealth isn't measured by money supply, it's measured by net assets.
FRB doesn't add net assets to economy, because with an asset it also creates a liability.
The only monetary thing that can add net assets to economy is government deficit spending.

Not to say that you confuse money supply inflation with price inflation (the latter is one that makes people poorer, not the former).

I think I'm not the one confused here.

Please read: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-debt-fuels-bubbles-2014-5?IR=T

And? This doesn't have anything to do with what I wrote.
If you want to prove me wrong, please give counterarguments, not some random links.

Wrong.
Fractional reserve lending is fraud.

How is it fraud? Care to elaborate?

You are inflating the original supply of store of value in everyone's system essentially stealing value out of everyone's pocket over time to benefit those that are able to lend early and lend at fractional reserves.

Thats fraud

So who is the fraudster here, according to your understanding? A bank or a borrower? Because without a borrower the supply of 'store of value' (it's actually quite funny to call fiat money 'store of value') wouldn't increase.

[solarion]

^
Now that you found out that fiat money is inflationary, you can avoid being a chump by investing it or spending it on goods and services -- not stuffing it in your mattress and expecting it to retain its value.

The cool kids know this, and have been doing this "investing and spending" thing all along.  Give it a shot

How does that help people attempting to store funds for retirement, the risk averse, or entrepreneurs? Should they be invested in something risky to attempt to keep up with the rate of inflation? This debt based "monetary" system encourages risky(stupid) investments by punishing inactivity, just like ppaca does. Even those that thought they were prepared are getting looted, that's why grandma is working at mc donalds now. She may well have saved up what she thought was a significant sum, but then inflation worked it's magic on her savings.

Productivity increases are inherently deflationary, but when productivity increases are introduced in modern society the only beneficiaries are those that issue the currency or are first to spend it. That's theft through monetary inflation. There's no capitalism without capital. FRB & artificially low interest rates ensures that there's very little capital formation. If you want to start a business...BORROW. It's a scam.

[RoadTrain]

^
Now that you found out that fiat money is inflationary, you can avoid being a chump by investing it or spending it on goods and services -- not stuffing it in your mattress and expecting it to retain its value.

The cool kids know this, and have been doing this "investing and spending" thing all along.  Give it a shot

How does that help people attempting to store funds for retirement, the risk averse, or entrepreneurs? Should they be invested in something risky to attempt to keep up with the rate of inflation? This debt based "monetary" system encourages risky(stupid) investments by punishing inactivity, just like ppaca does. Even those that thought they were prepared are getting looted, that's why grandma is working at mc donalds now. She may well have saved up what she thought was a significant sum, but then inflation worked it's magic on her savings.

That's not quite right. It's not the monetary system that's responsible, it's monetary authorities. Monetary authorities which set absurdly low interest rates which in turn fuel bubbles and stuff.
Retirement savings wouldn't be a problem if interest rates were in line with inflation.

[NotLambchop]

^
Now that you found out that fiat money is inflationary, you can avoid being a chump by investing it or spending it on goods and services -- not stuffing it in your mattress and expecting it to retain its value.

The cool kids know this, and have been doing this "investing and spending" thing all along.  Give it a shot

How does that help people attempting to store funds for retirement, the risk averse, or entrepreneurs? Should they be invested in something risky to attempt to keep up with the rate of inflation?

Oh please.  If you're a "sound money" fan, let grandma invest in gold, the ...err... gold standard of stability  Of course, there's all kinds of low-risk retirement funds -- investing != high risk.

This debt based "monetary" system encourages risky(stupid) investments by punishing inactivity,

No.  Bitcoin securities encourage risky (stupid) investment.  Please visit the securities section to learn what 95% failure rate looks like.  Inflation encourages you to put your money to work, instead of using it for mattress stuffing.  If you don't like to keep your wealth in fiat, and you shouldn't, spend that fiat on whatever you feel is a better store of value.  FRB does not prevent you from doing that.  In fact, that's what most normal folks do.

just like ppaca does.

Huh?

Even those that thought they were prepared are getting looted, that's why grandma is working at mc donalds now. She may well have saved up what she thought was a significant sum, but then inflation worked it's magic on her savings.

I have no idea what your grandma did, but my parents are quite comfortable, thanks.  I haven't had to help them out financially, or give mom lrides to McD's so's she could work the fryer.  Nothing short of a full-on Socialist state would protect every grandma from financial misplanning.

Productivity increases are inherently deflationary,

What does that mean?

but when productivity increases are introduced in modern society the only beneficiaries are those that issue the currency or are first to spend it.

Err... wat?  You bake cupcakes.  You figure out how to bake them faster and more efficiently.  If you're in the baking business, you profit from this productivity increase.  No?

That's theft through monetary inflation. There's no capitalism without capital as  FRB & artificially low interest rates ensures that there's very little capital formation.

Capital isn't affected by FRB, that's not even wrong .  Inflation is not theft.  You sound like one of those wacky "Money As Debt" YouT00b vids.

If you want to start a business...BORROW. It's a scam.

Since you understand this, *DON'T BORROW*.  Problem solved.

[solarion]

Not going to engage in a lengthy drawn out "duh session" with you. You seem to know exactly what theft is going on, you're just fine with it because it doesn't hurt you. It's hurting others...badly, many of whom don't even realize what's happening to them. In large part because intimate knowledge of the modern(scammy) banking system is not a mandatory part of the curriculum in public brainwashing institutions schools.

The problem with low risk investing is it doesn't keep up with the real rate of inflation, but then I think you know that. Low risk investments still result in losses over time...just slower and only then if things go well.

Yes, WEALTH should be stored in something other than fiat, and many make the wise decision to do that very thing. That's why banksters(and their puppet politicians) keep attacking things that represent stable stores of value over time that cannot be used to steal through inflation.

blah blah willful ignorance blah blah it doesn't effect me so I don't care blah blah

[NotLambchop]

Not going to engage in a lengthy drawn out "duh session" with you. ...

You initiated this, and now that you've spouted your entire arsenal of hackneyed cliches, from ObamaCare to brainwashing schools, you ragequit.  K

[solarion]

Not going to engage in a lengthy drawn out "duh session" with you. ...

You initiated this, and now that you've spouted your entire arsenal of hackneyed cliches, from ObamaCare to brainwashing schools, you ragequit.  K

Cliches? Ragequit? Okay bud, frame the non-debate however you like. I'm delighted that FRB, monetary expansion WAY beyond legitimacy, and blatant interest rate manipulation by non-government crooks(FRBNY) have not injured you. Others have plainly been less fortunate.

[NotLambchop]

*NotLambchop adds "non-government crooks(FRBNY)" to the cliche list*

Is there anyone not conspiring to part you and your monyz, solarion?
Surrender and welcome your Reptilian Overlords, Human!
Forget Grandma, she'll be well taken care of.  She's been repurposed into an incubator for teh eggs of our young.