6970's

[cypherdoc]

i'm new to mining but have 2 machines each with 3 Radeon cards, one with Sapphire 6970's, and the other with Powercolor 6970's.

the Powercolors run consistently lower Mh/s than Sapphires.  the only difference i can see physically is the 2 fans vs. one fan.  am getting in the high 200's for Powercolors vs. the low 300's for Sapphires.

what Mh/s should i expect optimally from these cards?  optimal temp? (they're currrently below 90 C).  memory at lowest setting.

using GUI miner, Win7 Ultimate.

am using the recently updated ATI Control Center with Overdrive.  any suggestions?

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[jake262144]

... they're currrently below 90 C...

I have a strange feeling they're not exactly at 50°C...

Anything above 80°C is going to impact the life span of those cards.
What is the "lowest setting"??

Suggestions...
(1) Increase case air flow.
(2) Undervolt those cards as hard as you are able to. This will prolong their life, increase power efficiency, and decrease heat.
     Undervolting is best done one small step at a time, say 0.020 V. If the card is still stable a few hours later, repeat until you've found minimal stable voltage. It will likely differ from card to card.
     I tested each undervolt level for a whole day before going further though it may have been going overboard.
     On my 6770s I've been able to decrease power by about 0.090 (from stock 1.2 downto ±1.110) while keeping the high OC levels (995/300, stock was 800). That shaved off 4 to 6°C per card.
  

[cypherdoc]

... they're currrently below 90 C...

I have a strange feeling they're not exactly at 50°C...

are they supposed to be?  they run btwn 70-high 80's

Anything above 80°C is going to impact the life span of those cards.
What is the "lowest setting"??

for temp?

Suggestions...
(1) Increase case air flow.
(2) Undervolt those cards as hard as you are able to. This will prolong their life, increase power efficiency, and decrease heat.

how do i undervolt?

[jake262144]

They're not supposed to be 50°C, I was just being sarcastic at your vagueness  
Keep'em below 80°C at all cost. Underclocking will help here. High 60s - low70s would be optimal.

If possible, avoid fan speeds exceeding 70%, though.
Higher speeds yield diminishing returns and you'll wear out the fans in a few months.

You said your memory was at the lowest setting. Can you tell me exactly what speed that amounts to?

My previous post has been updated with some general undervolting tips.
All my miners are running Linux and I'm using cgminer for the undervolting. Not sure how it's done on Windows.
I suggest you give cgminer a try. This miner is capable of dealing with multiple-pool mining, overclocking, undervolting, and temperature control all by itself. Not bad for a single piece of code.
If cgminer fails to change the voltages, try AMD's CCC.
If CCC doesn't provide an option to undervolt, you're gonna have to use software like trixx or afterburner.

[cypherdoc]

They're not supposed to be 50°C, I was just being sarcastic at your vagueness  
Keep'em below 80°C at all cost. Underclocking will help here. High 60s - low70s would be optimal.

If possible, avoid fan speeds exceeding 70%, though.
Higher speeds yield diminishing returns and you'll wear out the fans in a few months.

You said your memory was at the lowest setting. Can you tell me exactly what speed that amounts to?

My previous post has been updated with some general undervolting tips.
All my miners are running Linux and I'm using cgminer for the undervolting. Not sure how it's done on Windows.
I suggest you give cgminer a try. This miner is capable of dealing with multiple-pool mining, overclocking, undervolting, and temperature control all by itself. Not bad for a single piece of code.
If cgminer fails to change the voltages, try AMD's CCC.
If CCC doesn't provide an option to undervolt, you're gonna have to use software like trixx or afterburner.

i'm using AMD Vision Engine Control Center and Overdrive:
GPU clock 900
temp 89C
fan speed 100%
memory clock 1375 Mhz-lowest possible in Overdrive

just started mining so i'm not sure i'm ready to switch from guiminer to cgminer just yet.  i will try to adjust the setting you've recommended.

[jake262144]

i'm using AMD Vision Engine Control Center and Overdrive:
GPU clock 900
temp 89C
fan speed 100%
memory clock 1375 Mhz-lowest possible in Overdrive

just started mining so i'm not sure i'm ready to switch from guiminer to cgminer just yet.  i will try to adjust the setting you've recommended.

Some work will surely need to be done:
That temp is dangerous in the long run.
100% fan speed will wear the fans out fast.
1375 MHz @memory is just a waste of energy. Lowering the clocks to 300MHz should drop the temps significantly all by itself.
You might wish to upgrade your PC case with a few good fans. Which case are you using BTW?

I strongly suggest you ditch AMD Vision Engine Control Center and Overdrive and give MSI Afterburner a try.

Yeah, I agree that using cgminer requires putting the thinking cap on and going into the full-nerd mode (also known as text-mode)  
Once you get it working though, it's extremely handy.

[cypherdoc]

i'm using AMD Vision Engine Control Center and Overdrive:
GPU clock 900
temp 89C
fan speed 100%
memory clock 1375 Mhz-lowest possible in Overdrive

just started mining so i'm not sure i'm ready to switch from guiminer to cgminer just yet.  i will try to adjust the setting you've recommended.

Some work will surely need to be done:
That temp is dangerous in the long run.
100% fan speed will wear the fans out fast.
1375 MHz @memory is just a waste of energy. Lowering the clocks to 300MHz should drop the temps significantly all by itself.
You might wish to upgrade your PC case with a few good fans. Which case are you using BTW?

I strongly suggest you ditch AMD Vision Engine Control Center and Overdrive and give MSI Afterburner a try.

Yeah, I agree that using cgminer requires putting the thinking cap on and going into the full-nerd mode (also known as text-mode)  
Once you get it working though, it's extremely handy.

Overdrive minimum memory clock speed setting is 1375 Mhz.

[jake262144]

Overdrive minimum memory clock speed setting is 1375 Mhz.

That's precisely why I said give MSI Afterburner a try. It's a better alternative to Overdrive, free of charge.
Another widely-used and highly-regarded program is Sapphire TriXX

[cypherdoc]

Overdrive minimum memory clock speed setting is 1375 Mhz.

That's precisely why I said give MSI Afterburner a try. It's a better alternative to Overdrive, free of charge.
Another widely-used and highly-regarded program is Sapphire TriXX

but cgminer would be your first choice?

what is undervolt anyway?

[jake262144]

As I said, I have no experience whatsoever running cgminer on Windows.

Try those Overdrive-replacements first. This should allow you to make better use of your cards.
While your (hopefully) undervolted cards will being tested for stability, you can mess around with setting up cgminer.

what is undervolt anyway?

Undervolting a GPU means lowering the voltage at your GPU core.
Almost all cards will run without problems at lower than factory-set voltage levels.
The reason for this phenomenon is, the lower the quality of the GPU core is, the higher voltage is required to run that particular chip. Manufacturers set voltage levels for the whole families of cards based on an absolute worst-case scenario.

Power usage (and thus the amount of heat produced) diminishes by voltage squared, hence relatively minor voltage reduction can have a tangible effect on power efficiency and temperatures.

I already touched on it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60593.msg706110#msg706110

[cypherdoc]

... they're currrently below 90 C...

I have a strange feeling they're not exactly at 50°C...

Anything above 80°C is going to impact the life span of those cards.
What is the "lowest setting"??

Suggestions...
(1) Increase case air flow.
(2) Undervolt those cards as hard as you are able to. This will prolong their life, increase power efficiency, and decrease heat.
     Undervolting is best done one small step at a time, say 0.020 V. If the card is still stable a few hours later, repeat until you've found minimal stable voltage. It will likely differ from card to card.
     I tested each undervolt level for a whole day before going further though it may have been going overboard.
     On my 6770s I've been able to decrease power by about 0.090 (from stock 1.2 downto ±1.110) while keeping the high OC levels (995/300, stock was 800). That shaved off 4 to 6°C per card.
  

sorry to be such a noob about this but i really just got started.

ok, in the AMD vision engine control ctr, there is a Power Control setting slidebar % w/o any units.  i can decrease to a negative %.  would this be the undervolting you're describing?

[jake262144]

Not quite. What you are talking about would be the Powertune slider.
This doohickey doesn't change the voltage but changes the maximum amount of power the card will use at driver level.
That's nowhere near as useful as being able to change the voltage directly because powertune impacts the hash rate to some degree.
You may set it to eg. -10% in order the lower the temperatures.

Once again I remind you that there are better tools for fine tuning your cards than AMD Vision Engine Control Center and Overdrive.
No need to feel sorry, just do as any other newb does and do some research in Hardware and Mining Support.

[cuz0882]

I run my 6970's at 950 mhz +7% voltage. Which gives about 400mhash. Mine are water cooled which makes it a lot easier on the temps though. Also, like somone else mentioned don't run them over 80c. Low 70's is what you should shoot for.

[jake262144]

Voltage or Power-tune? Those two are completely orthogonal values and mustn't get mixed up.

[jake262144]

Cypherdoc, any progress?
Installed MSI Afterburner yet?

[cypherdoc]

Cypherdoc, any progress?
Installed MSI Afterburner yet?

not yet.  the machines are at work and i won't be able to get to them until Tuesday.

will it be as simple as just uninstalling AMD Engine and installing MSI Afterburner?  will Afterburner automatically detect the cards?

[jake262144]

I wouldn't even uninstall it. Just don't use it; perhaps remove from autostart if you're satisfied with Afterburner.
It's supposed to detect your hardware automagically, yes.

[cypherdoc]

I wouldn't even uninstall it. Just don't use it; perhaps remove from autostart if you're satisfied with Afterburner.
It's supposed to detect your hardware automagically, yes.

thanks for the help.  i'll let you know.

[ineededausername]

cypherdoc: You should be getting close to 400 MH/s

[cypherdoc]

cypherdoc: You should be getting close to 400 MH/s

yeah, that sucks doesn't it? 

i'm willing to move to cgminer but would need to be talked thru it since i'm not familiar with command lines.  i am smart though and follow instructions very quickly.

[heinz]

cypherdoc: You should be getting close to 400 MH/s

HIS Iceq 6970's at 975/850 getting 430 MH/s. Stable for months at a time. Temps in low 70's. Using latest Cgminer. Also using it for my overclocking and fan control.

[cypherdoc]

using MSI Afterburner;

core voltage slider is preset at Min; can't adjust

what is Shader Clock?  also preset at Min

adjusted Memory Clock down to min of 692 Mhz

Fan Speed right now at 100% b/c my 3 cards are at 89, 100, & 91C with Core Clock at 880!

[cypherdoc]

cypherdoc: You should be getting close to 400 MH/s

are u using cgminer?

[jake262144]

using MSI Afterburner;

core voltage slider is preset at Min; can't adjust

what is Shader Clock?  also preset at Min

adjusted Memory Clock down to min of 692 Mhz

Fan Speed right now at 100% b/c my 3 cards are at 89, 100, & 91C with Core Clock at 880!

Cypherdoc, do keep in mind I'm not a psychic. Instead of just saying "at min" do add the numeric value, k?  

Do you think you could compile a table like this?

Code:

card_id		core	mem	voltage		fan%	temperature
Sapphire6970_1	940	820	1.100		65	78
PowerC6970_1	...
PowerC6970_2	...

The only thing I can say for sure is that you successfully dropped the memory clocks and that you desperately need better ventilation or will have to start dropping core clocks.
Over the long haul, those fan speeds and temperatures are not acceptable.

Are those non-reference cards? If they are, there is a possibility that the manufacturers cut corners and equipped them with a non-adjustable VRMs.
Can you post the model numbers of your GPUs? Or links to the manufacturer's site showing the precise model?

Do you think you could post a decent photo of the whole set up?
That would give me an idea as to what those cards actually are and where some additional fans could be McGyvered in for better airflow.

[cypherdoc]

using MSI Afterburner;

core voltage slider is preset at Min; can't adjust

what is Shader Clock?  also preset at Min

adjusted Memory Clock down to min of 692 Mhz

Fan Speed right now at 100% b/c my 3 cards are at 89, 100, & 91C with Core Clock at 880!

Cypherdoc, do keep in mind I'm not a psychic. Instead of just saying "at min" do add the numeric value, k?  

you mean you don't read minds?  Min is minimum.  i was able to unlock the Core Voltage which i set at its minimum of 800 mV as you can see from the pic below

Do you think you could compile a table like this?

Code:

card_id		core	mem	voltage		fan%	temperature
Sapphire6970_1	940	820	1.100		65	78
PowerC6970_1	...
PowerC6970_2	...

The only thing I can say for sure is that you successfully dropped the memory clocks and that you desperately need better ventilation or will have to start dropping core clocks.
Over the long haul, those fan speeds and temperatures are not acceptable.

Are those non-reference cards?

i don't think so but i didn't install them.

 If they are, there is a possibility that the manufacturers cut corners and equipped them with a non-adjustable VRMs.
Can you post the model numbers of your GPUs? Or links to the manufacturer's site showing the precise model?

Do you think you could post a decent photo of the whole set up?
That would give me an idea as to what those cards actually are and where some additional fans could be McGyvered in for better airflow.

i'm actually getting a better sense of this now.

i've ordered a floor fan for the hottest miner.  i think the crux of the issue is i have 3 diff types of cards; 3 old Sapphire's which have only 1 fan; 3 Powercolors which have 2 fans; and one new Sapphire with 2 fans.  i'm going to try mixing and matching them into diff slots to give more ventilating space for the single fan Sapphires.  i'll also play with MSI along with that floor fan.  the way the motherboard is set up, the 2nd and 3rd slots (descending order) are right on top of each other and with the fans blowing out of the bottom of the cards, the 2nd card gets the hottest.  so i'm going to make sure that 2nd card has 2 fans.

you guys talk about a negative % setting for core voltage; i only have absolute values?

would cgminer run my cards more efficiently than MSI Afterburner?

[jake262144]

Nicely done!

Yeah, I ment precisely that I don't read minds. I know what a min value means, I just can't know what the numeric value corresponds to the min setting
e.g. you said voltage was at min. Great, but I still don't know whether that is 0.6V, 0.9V, 0.95V or 1.1V.

In undervolting discussions, negative values are being used as a distance (or delta) from the stock core voltage.
If the stock voltage for a particular GPU is 1.100V then -0.020 means core voltage of 1.080V.

It looks like you've got this particular 6970 GPU set up quite nicely. Which is it BTW?
0.820V core voltage is looking nice indeed.
I don't think you can move the Shaders Clock slider - on current AMD cards it's using the came clock as the core. Just ignore that.
Memory is decent at 685, a lot better energy- and heat-wise than 1375MHz.

Once you get the rest of your cards nice and cozy, there will be some overclocking to do.

Can you post the settings screens for your other cards as well?

[cypherdoc]

Nicely done!

Yeah, I ment precisely that I don't read minds. I know what a min value means, I just can't know what the numeric value corresponds to the min setting
e.g. you said voltage was at min. Great, but I still don't know whether that is 0.6V, 0.9V, 0.95V or 1.1V.

In undervolting discussions, negative values are being used as a distance (or delta) from the stock core voltage.
If the stock voltage for a particular GPU is 1.100V then -0.020 means core voltage of 1.080V.

It looks like you've got this particular 6970 GPU set up quite nicely. Which is it BTW?
0.820V core voltage is looking nice indeed.
I don't think you can move the Shaders Clock slider - on current AMD cards it's using the came clock as the core. Just ignore that.
Memory is decent at 685, a lot better energy- and heat-wise than 1375MHz.

Once you get the rest of your cards nice and cozy, there will be some overclocking to do.

Can you post the settings screens for your other cards as well?

yes i will when i can get to it.

but what about that 2nd GPU temp of 102C?  this is the card thats right on top of the bottom 3rd card.  no way to avoid this i don't think.

also what about cgminer being better than Afterburner?

[cypherdoc]

i think i have plenty of internal fans. they're all blowing air into the case.

my question is for the larger side panel fan.  currently its blowing air IN.  seems to me it would be more effective to be blowing air OUT to create flow.  thoughts?

also, the cards are connected with Crossfire connectors.  did someone say no Crossfire?

[jake262144]

As I told you before, I have no idea whatsoever how well cgminer does on Windows.
*shouts out loud* Ye Windows-miners attend, attend! A little support for cypherdoc here?

Yeah, what about that card? Other than the fact it's burning up alive, that is.
Post me the Afterburner settings for that card, there might be something wrong with fan speed or the card could just be suffocating due to being physically to close to the other cards.
You should keep at least one empty slot between the cards to let the fans breathe.
If you really can't, do what Conman did.

Heh yes it is. Great case for when it all must be in a case. The cards dropped a good 15 degrees or 25% fanspeed with those half-pegs.

EDIT::Kill crossfire. Not only do you not need it, it is detrimental for the hash rate.
EDIT::Actually, in the case of my case, temperatures dropped slightly with the side fan sucking air in due to (relatively) cold air being blown where it's most needed.
        You still need excellent exhaust, though, to get the hot air out of the case ASAP. I upgraded my exhaust with two Noiseblocker 140mm 1700RPM fans.
        If your exhaust fans aren't strong enough, feel free to give that side panel fan a try in exhaust configuration.
        The question is, when you open the case do the GPU temperatures rise or drop? If your airflow is good enough, the temps should be lower when the case is closed.

[cypherdoc]

As I told you before, I have no idea whatsoever how well cgminer does on Windows.
*shouts out loud* Ye Windows-miners attend, attend! A little support for cypherdoc here?

Yeah, what about that card? Other than the fact it's burning up alive, that is.
Post me the Afterburner settings for that card, there might be something wrong with fan speed or the card could just be suffocating due to being physically to close to the other cards.
You should keep at least one empty slot between the cards to let the fans breathe.
If you really can't, do what Conman did.

Heh yes it is. Great case for when it all must be in a case. The cards dropped a good 15 degrees or 25% fanspeed with those half-pegs.

EDIT::Kill crossfire. Not only do you not need it, it is detrimental for the hash rate.
EDIT::Actually, in the case of my case, the temperatures dropped slightly with the side fan blowing in due to (relatively) cold air being blown in where it's most needed.
        You still need excellent exhaust, though, to get the hot air out from the case ASAP. I upgraded my exhaust with two Noiseblocker 140mm 1700RPM fans.
        If your exhaust fans aren't strong enough, feel free to give that side-mounted fan a try in exhaust configuration.
        The question is, when you open the case do the GPU temperatures rise or drop? If your airflow is good enough, the temps should be lower when the case is closed.

do u actually mean disconnect the Crossfire connectors?

any thoughts on the fan directionality?

i thought the "settings" for the GPU2 are in the pic i put up?  those settings are universal across all 3 cards right?  or is there a way to individually make settings?

[jake262144]

Nope, the MSI Afterburner configuration is being done on an per-device basis.
Don't ask me where you need to click to change the currently-managed card.
I suggest you try clicking on the AMD HD Radeon 6900 Series panel. If it doesn't work you're gonna have to RTFM :<

Yes, turn off the machine and disconnect the crossfire bridges.

Feel free to experiment with the side panel fan. If your exhaust fans are currently too weak, turning the side fan around might help. I don't think it will, though.

[cypherdoc]

someone take a look at this, please.  i'm still having temp issues after rearranging the cards and installing cgminer:

[jake262144]

Beautifully done!

In cgminer window press G (as in gpu), then C (change), then put in the number of the card.
You'll see a screen like this:

Code:

Temp: 74.0 C
Fan Speed: 60%
Engine Clock: 1005 MHz
Memory Clock: 510 Mhz
Vddc: 1.009 V
Activity: 99%
Powertune: 0%
Fan autotune is enabled (60-65)
GPU engine clock autotune is enabled (700-1005)
Change [A]utomatic [E]ngine [F]an [M]emory [V]oltage [P]owertune
Or press any other key to continue

Not you can get tuning, tweaking, and hacking!

To make the changes permanent, you can edit your cgminer.conf file
The exact howto is in cgminer documentation and in cgminer thread.
You can't evade reading it, so I suggest you get RTFMing

Should cgminer shut down out of the blue after you have edited the config file, that most likely means you've made a typo somewhere.
Cgminer takes no prisoners: either every single character of the config file is in order or it refuses to work at all.

EDIT::wording

[-ck]

When after editing the config file cgminer shuts itself down when you launch it, that means you've made a typo somewhere. The config file takes no prisoners: either every single character is in order or it refuses to work.

This should be fixed on the next version (which is still a work in progress) and it will be more relaxed about typos/dud entries and skip over them.

[cuz0882]

Voltage or Power-tune? Those two are completely orthogonal values and mustn't get mixed up.

I can only change the voltage in ccc on this pc for some reason. Everything else I just use afterburner and set the voltage number.

[heinz]

someone take a look at this, please.  i'm still having temp issues after rearranging the cards and installing cgminer:

Is there any space between those cards?

[cypherdoc]

someone take a look at this, please.  i'm still having temp issues after rearranging the cards and installing cgminer:

Is there any space between those cards?

0.25-0.50 inch at most.  but ckolivas cards look similarly spaced.

i did discover one of my 4 fans was off however this morning.