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Author Topic: Would u pay in bitcoin?  (Read 8675 times)
SpiderCoin
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June 25, 2014, 05:02:58 AM
 #81

I would like to think that each transaction I do in BTC is ensuring the value in the future... plus I instant buy to keep my long position
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redwhite037
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June 25, 2014, 10:33:23 PM
 #82

Right now I like my bitcoins. I don't want to lose them, so I would not pay with them. But when the price hits the $2000+ range, then I will consider paying with them.
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June 25, 2014, 11:55:55 PM
 #83

The route [ dollars-->bitcoin-->merchandise ] does not need to be cheaper [ than dollars-->merchandise ], as it would not be cheaper, but would essentially cost the same (you could potentially have to "pay" the spread that coinbase charges).
Thanks, that is the problem: the customer who does not have the bitcoins yet will end up paying more by paying with bitcoins than by paying with dollars.  If any such customer tries to pay with bitcoin just out of curiosity, he will be disappointed.

Therefore those services are not going to help bitcoin adoption; they cater to the bitcoin believers who already have bitcoins and want to spend them.
When you buy something with a credit card, the merchant will need to pay fees to the credit card processor for processing the transaction, this will normally translate into between 2%-3% with the rate probably being closer to 3% then 2%. The merchant will need to account for some level of fraud and/or chargebacks that the credit card company will need the company to pay for (these costs can vary widely from industry to industry). The customer will ultimately pay for these costs in the form of higher prices. These costs are essentially hidden from the customer.

As of ~5 minutes ago, the buy price on Coinbase was $561.80, the sell price was $559.96, and the spread between the two prices was $1.84 or ~0.32%. Assuming offering such a discount would have a zero effect on sales, a merchant could afford to offer a 3% discount for paying in bitcoin and would have profits stay the same (no net cost). The customer would need to pay the coinbase "fee" of ~0.32% but would still end up paying ~2.68% less then they otherwise would. This is not only a lower net cost to the customer but the costs are more transparent.
dadugan
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June 26, 2014, 01:38:02 AM
 #84

Most people still hoarding bitcoin.

Those willing to spend it only spending it on mining equipment.
JorgeStolfi
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June 26, 2014, 01:44:46 AM
 #85

a merchant could afford to offer a 3% discount for paying in bitcoin and would have profits stay the same (no net cost). The customer would need to pay the coinbase "fee" of ~0.32% but would still end up paying ~2.68% less then they otherwise would. This is not only a lower net cost to the customer but the costs are more transparent.
Ok, ok, but how does the customer send the money to Coinbase?

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
ShakyhandsBTCer
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June 29, 2014, 07:56:06 PM
 #86

a merchant could afford to offer a 3% discount for paying in bitcoin and would have profits stay the same (no net cost). The customer would need to pay the coinbase "fee" of ~0.32% but would still end up paying ~2.68% less then they otherwise would. This is not only a lower net cost to the customer but the costs are more transparent.
Ok, ok, but how does the customer send the money to Coinbase?

They can use their bank account, one that does not carry any fees.
Habeler876
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June 29, 2014, 08:16:26 PM
 #87

Most people still hoarding bitcoin.

Those willing to spend it only spending it on mining equipment.

Nah, I spend bitcoin all the time. But I took out my initial investment (and much more) a long, long time ago. And I trade with the profits..... so whenever price drops and I manage to profit in coins, I put some aside for spending when we go back up. Smiley

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June 29, 2014, 08:25:44 PM
 #88

I would probably not go through all the effort just for some discount, unless the product is expensive enough.

If i regularly buy something at a store and it give a permanent discount i might consider.

But of course people do not only buy bitcoin in the hope of discounts. Bitcoin is many things and has many reasons why you should buy it.
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June 29, 2014, 08:47:42 PM
 #89

Ok, ok, but how does the customer send the money to Coinbase?
They can use their bank account, one that does not carry any fees.
And why can't they use such an account to pay the merchant?

What does Coinbase do to avoid fees on dollar deposits, that merchants cannot do?

Or are you considering international purchases?  In that case going through bitcoin could save money over paying directly with dollars; but bitcoin-based payment processors do not yet reach overseas, do they?  (And for most overseas purchases, transportation and customs taxes will dwarf the credit card fees.)

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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June 29, 2014, 08:54:25 PM
 #90

Certainly, if I were to (ahem) want to pay for some sort of adult entertainment on the internet (cam site, porn, etc), then bitcoin would be the way to go. No handing ID info to shady websites. Nothing weird showing up on credit card bills...

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June 29, 2014, 08:57:46 PM
 #91

No reason not to, assuming there were shops to spend it on. A lot of places where credit card penetration is low, bitcoin would be a very good payment method (it's true here in the Philippines).

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June 29, 2014, 09:20:58 PM
Last edit: June 29, 2014, 11:59:29 PM by theblacksquid
 #92

Ok, ok, but how does the customer send the money to Coinbase?
They can use their bank account, one that does not carry any fees.
And why can't they use such an account to pay the merchant?

What does Coinbase do to avoid fees on dollar deposits, that merchants cannot do?

Or are you considering international purchases?  In that case going through bitcoin could save money over paying directly with dollars; but bitcoin-based payment processors do not yet reach overseas, do they?  (And for most overseas purchases, transportation and customs taxes will dwarf the credit card fees.)


1) There are fees for bank-to-bank transfers, except for transfers between acounts with the same bank. Those fees are usually to big compared to what's being paid for. And of course, there are the traditional payment methods, debit cards and checks. The choice between that and bitcoin is usually a matter of conveniece and savings.

2) Are you referring to how Coinbase could avoid fees per dollar deposit into THEIR account? Or the transfer FROM the sender's account?

3) There are some international vendors accepting bitcoin using bitpay, cashcashpinoy.com is one of them. And shipping charges will always be there, regardless of payment method.

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June 29, 2014, 10:57:23 PM
 #93

If I can get a discount then sure and then replenish the BTCs. Otherwise I would rather keep hold of them as I believe they will be worth more.
ShakyhandsBTCer
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June 30, 2014, 12:08:15 AM
 #94

Ok, ok, but how does the customer send the money to Coinbase?
They can use their bank account, one that does not carry any fees.
And why can't they use such an account to pay the merchant?

What does Coinbase do to avoid fees on dollar deposits, that merchants cannot do?

Or are you considering international purchases?  In that case going through bitcoin could save money over paying directly with dollars; but bitcoin-based payment processors do not yet reach overseas, do they?  (And for most overseas purchases, transportation and customs taxes will dwarf the credit card fees.)

You can but this would carry a lot of risks, risks that coinbase manages and takes. It is also slow as ACH usually takes 2-3 days to be received by the other bank.

Shipping and tariffs (customs taxes) are big for most international purchases, however bitcoin would still save money on the transaction as it would reduce overall costs.
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August 07, 2014, 09:18:24 AM
 #95

If it was for small purchases I wouldn't bother trying to get into bitcoin just to make a small saving on something small however take something like a car and then you would be talking especially if I could save quite a bit paying with bitcoins over my own cash.
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August 07, 2014, 10:33:52 AM
 #96




Or are you considering international purchases?  

My OP was made because i was selling a bike on gumtree for $150 i think but also said half price if paying in bitcoin just to see what interest i got from it, not one person wanted to pay in bitcoin but everybody asked "what is it"? Some researched it and came back saying it just looked to hard for them to bother with. I know its not that easy to begin with and it made me think with all the money being put in to bitcoin why is it still not easy for the average joe?

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August 07, 2014, 12:15:10 PM
 #97

Or are you considering international purchases?  
My OP was made because i was selling a bike on gumtree for $150 i think but also said half price if paying in bitcoin just to see what interest i got from it, not one person wanted to pay in bitcoin but everybody asked "what is it"? Some researched it and came back saying it just looked to hard for them to bother with. I know its not that easy to begin with and it made me think with all the money being put in to bitcoin why is it still not easy for the average joe?
For someone who is not a computer geek and has not owned bitcoin yet, getting some seems indeed a hassle.  (People recommend signing transactions on a separate computer, not connected to the internet, and then moving the signed TX to the main computer via USB stick. I presume that 99% of mankind would stop reading right there.)

It is surprising, but not TOO surprising, that a 75$ discount wasn't enough to drive people to do it.  Maybe they suspected a scam or something? ("Is the bike worth 75$ only?" "Why is there a discount for paying with Drugcoin?")

If there is no discount other than the fees that the credit card takes from the merchant, paying with bitcoin is still not worth it for domestic purchases.  Paying via bitcoin costs X = (bank wire fee) + (Bitpay fee) + (bank wire fee), whereas paying with dollars through bank wire costs only Y = (bank wire fee).  Obviously X is greater than Y, and those fees will be added to the bare item cost, no matter who pays them.

It is not right to compare X to Z = (credit card fee). People normally pay merchants with credit cards instead of bank wire because it is easier, faster, safer (can be cancelled) , and delays the actual payment until after receipt of the goods.  On these aspects, the bitcoin route is a lot worse than paying the merchant with bank wire.

The bitcoin route may save money on international payments, since it replaces one international bank transfer by two domestic ones plus the money-to-bitcoin and bitcoin-to-money conversion fees, which may still be cheaper overall.  However, for international purchases the possibility of delaying and canceling the actual payment is even more important for the customer, so he will probably choose to pay with credit card anyway.

Bitcoin payment processors like Bitpay and Coinbase presumably know this, so they are targeting people who already own bitcoin and want to spend some of it.  There are some 12 million coins already in bitcoiner's wallets; if each of them gets used only once for purchase through those companies, at current market price that means they would process 7 billion dollars and collect perhaps 70 million dollars in fees -- not bad.

To convince the average joe to adopt bitcoin, someone would have to pay the difference X minus Y for him.  Some bitcoiners may be willing to donate their money to the cause, but companies are created to make profit, and they would never do that.

If you own 1 BTC that you bought for 10$, it is worth using it to buy a TV that costs 600$, because you will be realizing a 590$ profit in that purchase.  Basically, whoever buys that BTC from Bitpay will be paying those 590$ for you.  It would be almost the same thing as selling that BTC for 600$ on an exchange and paying the TV with that money.

However, if you then were to buy 1 BTC for 600$ to "replenish your reserve", that profit will vanish: you would be paying 600$ for the TV, plus several fees.  If you don't want to reduce your BTC holdings, it is better to buy the TV with dollars, by bank wire directly to the merchant.

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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August 07, 2014, 03:42:59 PM
 #98

For someone who is not a computer geek and has not owned bitcoin yet, getting some seems indeed a hassle.  (People recommend signing transactions on a separate computer, not connected to the internet, and then moving the signed TX to the main computer via USB stick. I presume that 99% of mankind would stop reading right there.)
People will adapt. This is exactly the same story which was with first e-mails, smartphones etc. Information will spread. Also, herding behavior is very strong with people, just look at the success of whatsApp  - whose business model is "pay for something you already get for free". They only succeeded thanks to the herd behavior. And the herd day of bitcoin hasn't really come yet.

People using bitcoin right now are like people who used Nokia Communicators or Windows Mobile palmtops. And yeah, it is worth noting that when the smarphone revolution really kicked off, both Nokia and Microsoft missed the train.
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August 07, 2014, 05:32:53 PM
 #99

Don't own any coin. As many posters here pointed out, converting bitcoin to fiat to pay seems like a hassle and increase transaction cost.
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August 07, 2014, 05:36:49 PM
 #100

Most poeple just hold BTC to get wealthier and never use it to pay for shit.
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