Bitcoin Magazine

[casascius]

casascius i get the feeling you're mostly upset the magazine hasn't requested to issue your coins with it's first run

Not quite.  PM I received:

Heads up regarding advertising your products you have for February release.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60636

Cheers

Matthew

In fact, $60 is a damn steal for advertising in an in-print magazine.

When I got the PM, the first thing that crossed my mind was, that this is the same guy who, a week ago, rebutted one of my posts with a "your mom" quip.  Which I couldn't find in a search of the forums, so either he deleted it, or (more likely) the mods cleaned it up.  I will bet that this has left me with a somewhat negative impression of Matthew, this may explain my apparent bias far better than any sort of speculation that he "left me out" of his magazine.

In my payroll business, I've advertised in numerous industry-related magazines, and paid far more than $60 for the privilege.  Needless to say, none of them have ever made "your mom" jokes in the course of doing business with me.

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[deslok]

casascius i get the feeling you're mostly upset the magazine hasn't requested to issue your coins with it's first run

Not quite.  PM I received:

Heads up regarding advertising your products you have for February release.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60636

Cheers

Matthew

calling attention to advertising oppurtunities is equal to issuing your coins now?

[bittenbob]

Which part?  My understanding is that Matthew is actually a teenager.  So if Matthew wants to produce a magazine to appeal to an older crowd, he should write like it.  That's not too much to ask?

Well for starters Matthew is an adult, don't really know what else to say to that. Matthew is also not writing the magazine but editing it. Those are two separate things and you should try to learn the difference. We are not just trying to appeal to an older crowd but to everyone. Is that such a bad thing for anyone to be able to read it and find something for them?

I actually wish him the best.  I mean, he is taking all the risk with the printing costs, right?  Chances are pretty good I will buy the magazine myself.

I am just asking him to class up, for the sake of the project as a whole.  Real stakeholders in the financial and business sectors are watching the Bitcoin project, those with the resources to propel it further, and this isn't the sort of crowd that would be impressed if the first regular in-print Bitcoin-related magazine starts out its first page with a clever embedding of "STFU".  These are the crowd that read the WSJ, NYT, Forbes, and if those are dry magazines, then dry isn't so bad.

I hope you will buy the magazine. I promise you will not be disappointed in its content and entertainment factor (well maybe not since you like everything dry). If you think that people who read financial magazines don't have a sense of humor then I question how many of them you really know. In fact, they probably wish some of the magazines they read were a little more interesting overall while maintaining a high level of quality in the content. I believe the magazine achieves this.

Again we are not trying to appeal to WSJ, Forbes, NYT type crowd exclusively. We would like to appeal to a broader audience and this is what we are going for. If you cannot appreciate that you are welcome to start up a dry magazine on bitcoin business information and go from there. This is the path we have chosen to take and we think it is good for Bitcoin as a whole.

[casascius]

calling attention to advertising oppurtunities is equal to issuing your coins now?

Sorry, I must be really thick, because I am not getting it.  This is what I thought you meant.  What exactly is meant by "issuing" my coins?

I wouldn't expect Matthew to "issue" my coins.  I'm not even sure what that means, since I'm the only person who "issues" my coins.  This may not be readily apparent, but my bread and butter is in the payroll software business, and the coins are a side project intended to promote Bitcoin.

[nhodges]

This whole thing is regressing into a he said she said argument, so why don't we drop it at that? What was said could have been better expressed via private message, I would think. It is, after all, a personal issue with the magazine's editor's choice of graphic representation on this message board.

Matthew is the frontman and chief editor (and he deserves to be, he has poured his heart and soul into this process) but the magazine itself goes through a very deliberate and democratic process. I think that everyone involved will not consciously push something out into the public they don't think would be received well by the target demographic.

[casascius]

Well for starters Matthew is an adult, don't really know what else to say to that. Matthew is also not writing the magazine but editing it. Those are two separate things and you should try to learn the difference. We are not just trying to appeal to an older crowd but to everyone. Is that such a bad thing for anyone to be able to read it and find something for them?

"try to learn the difference"?  No need to talk down to me like I'm a fool - the "STFU" I've been referring to is in a section titled "Editor's Rant" and signed with Matthew's name, so I don't think I have misconstrued who put this in there.

Yes, it is a bad thing to put things into a magazine that some people will find offensive if you're trying to appeal to "everyone".  References to the F word (fuck fuck fuckety fuck) don't bother me, but I'm also smart enough not to use the F word in a publication that I expect to be read by lots of different people, many of whom will view such a thing as childish.  This is just common sense.  Yes, PLEASE print a magazine that everybody will take something from, one that will hopefully help them take us and this project seriously.

I hope you will buy the magazine. I promise you will not be disappointed in its content and entertainment factor (well maybe not since you like everything dry). If you think that people who read financial magazines don't have a sense of humor then I question how many of them you really know. In fact, they probably wish some of the magazines they read were a little more interesting overall while maintaining a high level of quality in the content. I believe the magazine achieves this.

Again we are not trying to appeal to WSJ, Forbes, NYT type crowd exclusively. We would like to appeal to a broader audience and this is what we are going for. If you cannot appreciate that you are welcome to start up a dry magazine on bitcoin business information and go from there. This is the path we have chosen to take and we think it is good for Bitcoin as a whole.

I am just asking you not to turn off the WSJ, Forbes, and NYT crowd.  Not to mention the editorial board of "Barnes & Noble", which I can't imagine they will just stick anything on their shelves that shows up just because it's in print.  I would bet if they saw the "suck my dick" avatar, they'd consider that all they needed to know about "Bitcoin magazine".  Using it as a Bitcoin forum avatar while trying to get a new magazine published about Bitcoin is just not using your fucking brain.

In case it is unclear, it is possible to be funny without being a turnoff to your intended audience.  Perhaps STFU should be removed, as "Vicente" seemed to suggest.  It's good advice.  Hope I haven't asked too much.

[bittenbob]

No need to talk down to me like I'm a fool

You are acting like a fool so I will talk to you like one. Grow up and stop being a troll.

If you don't like the magazine like I said you are welcome to start your own.

[Matthew N. Wright]

In case it is unclear, it is possible to be funny without being a turnoff to your intended audience.

Good advice. I have felt the same way from day one, and no one has let me forget it.

Perhaps STFU should be removed, as "Vicente" seemed to suggest.  It's good advice.  Hope I haven't asked too much.

It will probably stay despite your efforts, but that's not a reflection of my personal feelings about your request-- it just seems to be unfounded imo and blown out of proportion. Rally some troops together who agree and I think it'll have a more lasting impact than someone who claims my avatar is relative to the magazine's success. 

Thank you though. Regardless of what everyone in this thread is saying, I'm soaking it all in very well and I trust I'll make the right decision on these matters.

Cheers

[casascius]

It will probably stay despite your efforts, but that's not a reflection of my personal feelings about your request-- it just seems to be unfounded imo and blown out of proportion. Rally some troops together who agree and I think it'll have a more lasting impact than someone who claims my avatar is relative to the magazine's success.  

Thank you though. Regardless of what everyone in this thread is saying, I'm soaking it all in very well and I trust I'll make the right decision on these matters.

Cheers

It is your magazine after all.

Did I understand correctly that you anticipated it would be considered for placement in Barnes & Noble retail stores?

If the answer is no, then I would agree, your avatar is irrelevant, express yourself as you wish.  But if the answer is yes, then I will point out that, in the face of the probability that these people will see your avatar and judge you and your magazine heavily by it, having it up there would reflect a gaping lapse in common sense.  Do I want your magazine to succeed and get coverage, hell yes.  Is it really unreasonable for me to point out that this poor choice of way of expressing yourself is a way to shoot the chances of your success in the foot before you even start running?  That's all.  It Is YOUR magazine, and you shall do with it as YOU please.  And yes, I will gladly buy one regardless of your avatar and regardless of whether it contains "STFU".

[cbeast]

I'm not sure I agree with either Matthew, nor Casascius here. Bitcoin is such a paradigm shift that it's doubtful that any establishment will grok it. Artists like on "The Good Wife" understand the big picture, especially those that make big pictures. Vanity books and zines are fine, but it's the ideas they present that are the key to acceptance. The invention of Bitcoin is like the discovery of fire. Bitcoin needs PASSION, bitches!

[bittenbob]

Casascius, a couple points for you to consider; FCUK is a major fashion company and I am quite certain it purposely reads a lot like FUCK. Another company that their very name is a play on words of the word fuck is www.mofo.com. A financial company nonetheless.

We appreciate that you will be purchasing a copy of the magazine and like I said you will be happy with what you see. If you want the magazine to succeed it was not very appropriate to call Matthew a teenager when he is clearly an adult and carry on the way you did. Also these type of comments would have been more appropriate in a PM instead of openly criticizing the magazine without actually reading out.

Bitcoin purchases can be made at http://www.bitcoinmagazine.net

Fiat purchases can be made at http://www.memorydealers.com/bima.html

[bittenbob]

I'm not sure I agree with either Matthew, nor Casascius here. Bitcoin is such a paradigm shift that it's doubtful that any establishment will grok it. Artists like on "The Good Wife" understand the big picture, especially those that make big pictures. Vanity books and zines are fine, but it's the ideas they present that are the key to acceptance. The invention of Bitcoin is like the discovery of fire. Bitcoin needs PASSION, bitches!

Rest assured we are all very passionate about Bitcoin at Bitcoin Magazine. I might actually go as far as saying we are the most passionate group out there in the Bitcoin community. Otherwise, we would not be putting the time and effort into the magazine that we are.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Now I'm the one who must be missing something here. Why would the distributors for magazines to Barnes and Noble (of which there are two) come to bitcointalk.org and try to hunt down the magazine editor's profile so that they could make a judgement of whether or not to distribute the magazine based off of my forum avatar? Are you tripping balls? Did you think Bitcoin Magazine was a company-less project I'm doing on my own 'after school'? BitTalk Media Ltd is a registered UK company with numerous shareholders who are quite well known in Bitcoin for their professionalism and activism to Bitcoin, of which Bitcoin Magazine is a product (with an additional 12 professional contributors). I hold equity in the company, but Bitcoin Magazine os not mine. I do not try to name things after myself on a forum and draw the community away from the useful functionality it already has like some people. I am sipporting the community and giving them a voice.

I understand this is all very new to you and you probably don't know any of the work I do. It's fine. Just try to keep your advice relative to the magazine in the form of questions and suggestions instead of pretending you know what's going on.

I mean, so far you've been factually incorrect on the majority of your preconceptions merely bacause you are bias towards me. Let's get back on track. The hundreds of subscribers so far have not bothered to complain about "STFU" or "Matthew doesn't act mature enough to represent the community" (which is an honest fear of mine regardless), instead they're intelligent-- they're waiting on the product to actually be released before they pass judgement.

(Btw, do you think I should erase all my videos on youtube also, just in case? And my facebook? Maybe I should start censoring everything I say and do now, even though professional distributors judge the magazine based on the contents...)

[casascius]

Casascius a couple points for you to consider; FCUK is a major fashion company and I am quite certain it purposely reads a lot like FUCK. Another company that their very name is a play on words of the word fuck is www.mofo.com. A financial company nonetheless.

Yes, I think you have mistaken me for a prude.  I actually bought a FCUK t-shirt for my then-girlfriend, it was maybe eight years ago.  It said, "scent to bed".  She loved it.  And I will be willing to bet that Morrison Foerster earned their credibility first, before adopting the name "MoFo".  We as Bitcoin don't have that luxury, we're still at the stage where we're looking for legitimate acceptance from the world, we are battling news articles associating Bitcoin with drugs and crime, we don't have quite the creative license as MoFo has.

We appreciate that you will be purchasing a copy of the magazine and like I said you will be happy with what you see. If you wanted the magazine to succeed it was not very appropriate to call Matthew a teenager when he is clearly an adult.

It is my belief that Matthew is actually seventeen years old.  "Clearly an adult" isn't clear to me - it's not like his ID is posted for us all to see.  The last time his avatar had a photo that I thought was him, he would definitely pass for 17 if that was him.  And 17 is quite on the upper end of the age range for telling "your mom" jokes, so I have had no reason to believe he was any older.  But if he is significantly older, then of course, my apologies for underestimating his age.

Also these type of comments would have been more appropriate in a PM instead of openly criticizing the magazine without actually reading out.

I don't think I agree with you there.  The "suck my dick" image remains is in plain sight, so is the STFU.  They are an egregious lapse of common sense for someone attempting to start a new publication for retail sale - me pointing them out could hardly not have made things much worse.  But I'd be willing to concede and remove my comments if there was a consensus for it.

[casascius]

Now I'm the one who must be missing something here. Why would the distributors for magazines to Barnes and Noble (of which there are two) come to bitcointalk.org and try to hunt down the magazine editor's profile so that they could make a judgement of whether or not to distribute the magazine based off of my forum avatar? Are you tripping balls?

They wouldn't "hunt" you down in the pursuit sense of the word.  All it takes is one person to stick your name into Google with the word "bitcoin", and bam, they reach your "suck my dick" avatar within the first two or three search results.

This is a day and age where having your prospective employers not just Googling you, but digging up all your social media and everything they can find on you is the rule, not the exception.  You leave drunken party photos on your facebook and forget to make them private and you get brutally judged.  This is the internet age.  You don't seriously think Barnes & Noble has no editorial board, and publishes anything that shows up with an ISBN number without due diligence as cursory as a Google search?

Get this: I want your fucking magazine to see success.  DOn't shoot yourself in the goddamn foot in the name of "expressing" yourself!

(Note: I am really not angry as I made that sound, but I want to make it perfectly clear that I have no problem with profanity in general, it's just there's a time and a place for it, and this would not be one such place!)

[bittenbob]

There is no proof Matthew ever made a your momma joke other than what you said. Even if he did say it and then deleted it, he did not think it was appropriate and voluntarily removed it. That accusation is completely unfounded and could be construed as libel.

Are you saying that we can't be creative with the magazine? I would beg to differ and I think creativity is key to the future success of the magazine. The magazine offers no support to drugs or crime and in fact promotes the exact opposite. Humor is not only relegated to druggies and criminals so I take the offense to your implication that by having a sense of humor this is what we are promoting.

As far as his age, why don't you bother to look at any of the Bittalk.tv programs that are available? The only 17 year old who is of any importance in the Bitcoin community (sorry 17 year olds) is Zhou Tong and that is because he runs Bitcoinica. Again there is no proof of any your mom jokes so stop bringing up something which you have no proof of.

When it comes to his avatar we believe in the freedom of expression and individuality. As Matthew said, you can't expect him to change his facebook page, youtube videos and everything else just because he is the editor of the magazine. It is his right to express himself and any attempt to stifle individuality reeks of fascism (which the Bitcoin community is against).

What the problem here is your approach to the whole matter. This could have been dealt with in a much more respectful manner but you chose to came out hurling insults and accusations on the magazine's thread. We are of course open to suggestions but one person saying they don't like something is not going to make us change our minds. Now if we started to receive multiple comments to whatever effect, we would probably re-evaluate our situation.

[casascius]

There is no proof Matthew ever made a your momma joke other than what you said. Even if he did say it and then deleted it, he did not think it was appropriate and voluntarily removed it. That accusation is completely unfounded and could be construed as libel.

I don't believe I have a burden of proof.  My personal testimony is that it occurred, either by him or someone posting under his account, and that I considered it heavily when forming my personal opinion of what kind of person I was dealing with.  If you do not find it credible, you are welcome to disregard it.  I cannot speak to whether he voluntarily removed it, just that I could not find it when I looked for it.  Perhaps he could clarify this for us.

Are you saying that we can't be creative with the magazine? I would beg to differ and I think creativity is key to the future success of the magazine. The magazine offers no support to drugs or crime and in fact promotes the exact opposite. Humor is not only relegated to druggies and criminals so I take the offense to your implication that by having a sense of humor this is what we are promoting.

I have said nothing of the such.  I have stated that I believe "STFU" is a poor humor choice for the stated intended audience, and that "suck my dick" is a poor choice of avatar given the circumstances.  Saying we don't have "creative license" to use potty humor mainly means that much of our target audience probably won't find it funny (especially the portion of that audience with the deciding power as to whether to carry this magazine at retail), not that we're not allowed to be creative.  (I have no doubt you understand that creative is not a synonym for profanity... and also that "stfu" has been around for so long as to hardly qualify as creativity).

As far as his age, why don't you bother to look at any of the Bittalk.tv programs that are available?

I don't believe I have a burden of proof for his age either.  I have believed in good faith that he is 17.  If I am wrong, then so be it.  No one has really come out with his actual age, but that's beside the point.  If someone says he is actually a different age, I probably won't dispute it.

When it comes to his avatar we believe in the freedom of expression and individuality. As Matthew said, you can't expect him to change his facebook page, youtube videos and everything else just because he is the editor of the magazine. It is his right to express himself and any attempt to stifle individuality reeks of fascism (which the Bitcoin community is against).

Fascism?  WOuldn't I have to be, like, a state or something to be fascist?  I'm not even a moderator or someone with the power to censor.  Yes, he has a right to express himself.  He also has a right to make us all look like fools.  It's unfortunate, but yes I agree it's his right.  I have a right to criticize that, and of course, he has a right to disregard my opinion, as he appears to be doing.

What the problem here is your approach to the whole matter. This could have been dealt with in a much more respectful manner but you chose to came out hurling insults and accusations on the magazine's thread. We are of course open to suggestions but one person saying they don't like something is not going to make us change our minds. Now if we started to receive multiple comments to whatever effect, we would probably re-evaluate our situation.

Really?  I referred to "STFU" and "suck my dick" as immature teenage behavior.  That's exactly what those are.  LIke I said, if you feel I should have addressed it in private, I'll concede that, but that's about as far as it goes.

[casascius]

FWIW, I did just buy the 12-issue subscription.  Please impress.

[casascius]

Bitcoin is such a paradigm shift that it's doubtful that any establishment will grok it.

Bitcoin is such a paradigm shift that I think it's at least somewhere on the radar screen of virtually every establishment that has heard about it.

To go throw serious resources at publishing a magazine while at the same time throwing caution to the wind with the assumption of "they'll never google me" - all in the name of expressing one's self - is a brazen disregard for cause and effect, action and consequence, risk and reward.  He wouldn't express himself this way on a resume nor show up to a job interview wearing it as a t-shirt...(at least I'd hope not)... nor would he do the same introducing himself to B&N in person... so why make it visible on every one of his 2600+ past and present forum posts, all of which are a google search away?

Employers whittling stacks of resumes with Google and Facebook is growing in popularity so much because it is so effective as to be ludicrous... people who post things online without giving any thought as to about who will find them are everywhere and make this process so efficient.   Given that, as an employer, why in the digital age would you waste your time and money probing someone in an interview or probationary employment to discover their bad habits or their inability to exercise common sense when you can find it within seconds by doing an online search?   I absolutely cannot imagine that people in the publishing business - who also receive tons of submissions they must whittle down regularly - would not do the same thing.

[realnowhereman]

My 0.02BTC.  For reference, I hate "yoof culture" and pointless bad language.

There was an extremely popular friday evening (i.e. pre-watershed) programme on in the UK in the 90s called "TFI Friday".  It had an 18-40 demographic (I would guess, going by the live audience) and everyone knew what the "F" stood for.

I would suggest that an editors column called "STFU" is not the same as one called "SHUT THE FUCK UP"; and is fairly in keeping with many magazine's editorial columns,, which are often just the editors pet monthly rant.

I agree that professionalism is important; but equally, popular bitcoin adoption is not going to be driven by conservative, cardigan-wearing pipe smokers.  It's going to be driven by generation WTF.

As to upsetting professionals in the financial industry: as far as I'm aware, they are (away from customers) some of the most foul-mouthed people one could ever stumble across; I doubt they are going to be put off by use of the letter "F".