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Question: Should the US force employers to pay at least $100/hour to each employee?
Yes - 14 (29.2%)
No - 34 (70.8%)
Total Voters: 48

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Author Topic: [Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?  (Read 4788 times)
RCHumphrey
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May 17, 2014, 01:47:56 PM
 #41

When price levels rise with wages, output declines and it would have hugely negative inflationary effects. Even small increases on minimal wages have been shown to have large effects down the line on unemployment and general shopping baskets.

One of the best things about America is the low minimum wages in certain states. Sure wish we had that in the UK.
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May 17, 2014, 02:54:58 PM
 #42

One of the best things about America is the low minimum wages in certain states. Sure wish we had that in the UK.

The situation in the US is a bit complex. There are millions of illegal aliens there, who are ready to work for sub-minimum wage rates. So the industry is able to cut down on the costs. This is not practicable in the UK.
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May 17, 2014, 02:56:42 PM
 #43

When price levels rise with wages, output declines and it would have hugely negative inflationary effects. Even small increases on minimal wages have been shown to have large effects down the line on unemployment and general shopping baskets.

One of the best things about America is the low minimum wages in certain states. Sure wish we had that in the UK.

I'm sorry, but this seems like the propaganda going around about the evils of raising the minimum wage; do you have any decent sources to back that up?

EDIT: because remember, we're talking about people that are already receiving the minimum wage; these people aren't going to save what little extra more they might get with an increase - they're going to spend it in their other basic needs. So, this is money that's going directly back into the economy, perhaps providing more business to the very guys paying the minimum wage as well, now that more people can afford their goods.
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May 17, 2014, 03:17:54 PM
 #44

When price levels rise with wages, output declines and it would have hugely negative inflationary effects. Even small increases on minimal wages have been shown to have large effects down the line on unemployment and general shopping baskets.

One of the best things about America is the low minimum wages in certain states. Sure wish we had that in the UK.

I'm sorry, but this seems like the propaganda going around about the evils of raising the minimum wage; do you have any decent sources to back that up?

EDIT: because remember, we're talking about people that are already receiving the minimum wage; these people aren't going to save what little extra more they might get with an increase - they're going to spend it in their other basic needs. So, this is money that's going directly back into the economy, perhaps providing more business to the very guys paying the minimum wage as well, now that more people can afford their goods.

It's not propaganda.
We have a country that flourished and with no workers abuse without a minimum wage at all - Germany.

The whole minimum wage increase is an evil socialist propaganda Smiley


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May 17, 2014, 03:53:44 PM
 #45

We have a country that flourished and with no workers abuse without a minimum wage at all - Germany.

During the 1980s, Germany (Federal Republic of Germany to be precise) was home to more than 2 million Gastarbeiter, most of them from Turkey, Spain, Greece, Morocco.etc. The German manufacturing industry was at its peak. But things began to change in the 1990s, when the Gastarbeiter started demanding citizenship and additional benefits associated with it.
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May 17, 2014, 04:26:43 PM
 #46

It has been decided that there will be a minimum wage of 8.50 Euro/hour in Germany next year.
There will be exceptions, like people that have been unemployed for a long time, or some internships.
Let's see if germany's economy will go down the drain.

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May 17, 2014, 04:40:22 PM
Last edit: May 17, 2014, 06:32:50 PM by practicaldreamer
 #47

In the UK we have a minimum wage - but this effectively only applies to single people.

If a man/woman with a family is on minimum wage their income is topped up via state benefits. This means that state taxes are subsidising the private businesses that are paying wages below that which is deemed sufficient. You could say that Govt. taxes are providing the private sector with their profits.

Of course, if the subsidies (or top up benefits) were removed from business, and they were forced to pay the deficit (between what they pay now and a decent living wage) they would go bust - or they would ship out production to China, if they operated within a sector where that would be an option (manufacturing for e.g.).

Welcome to global capitalism.

Maybe the anti-tax lobby on BitcoinTalk might wish to take this problem on board ?

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May 17, 2014, 04:53:27 PM
 #48

It has been decided that there will be a minimum wage of 8.50 Euro/hour in Germany next year.
There will be exceptions, like people that have been unemployed for a long time, or some internships.
Let's see if germany's economy will go down the drain.

That will accelerate the immigration from the new-EU states, such as Poland, Lithuania and Slovakia. € 8.50 is almost a day's wage in these countries. And unfortunately, this is going to result in many native Germans losing their jobs.
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May 17, 2014, 04:59:58 PM
 #49

It has been decided that there will be a minimum wage of 8.50 Euro/hour in Germany next year.
There will be exceptions, like people that have been unemployed for a long time, or some internships.
Let's see if germany's economy will go down the drain.

Down the drain , of course not.
But not all the changes will be positive, and I think that the negative ones will be more and they will be the ones making the news.

But only time will tell ...


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May 17, 2014, 05:02:00 PM
 #50

It has been decided that there will be a minimum wage of 8.50 Euro/hour in Germany next year.
There will be exceptions, like people that have been unemployed for a long time, or some internships.
Let's see if germany's economy will go down the drain.

That will accelerate the immigration from the new-EU states, such as Poland, Lithuania and Slovakia. € 8.50 is almost a day's wage in these countries. And unfortunately, this is going to result in many native Germans losing their jobs.

Average wage in Poland is 680 euros , that's 34 euros /working day.


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bryant.coleman
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May 17, 2014, 05:07:34 PM
 #51

Average wage in Poland is 680 euros , that's 34 euros /working day.

What about the blue-collar jobs? I am sure that the average salary for the blue-collar jobs in Poland must be well below € 34 per day. I won't be surprised if it is close to € 10 per day.
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May 17, 2014, 06:04:37 PM
 #52

Average wage in Poland is 680 euros , that's 34 euros /working day.

What about the blue-collar jobs? I am sure that the average salary for the blue-collar jobs in Poland must be well below € 34 per day. I won't be surprised if it is close to € 10 per day.

In my country the worst jobs are averaging 200 euros , so , I doubt that there are any like this in poland.

Also the minimum wage in Poland is 300 euros , so Smiley.


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practicaldreamer
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May 17, 2014, 06:29:30 PM
 #53

The Swiss are proposing an equivalent of £14.70 per hour minimum wage - which would make it the highest in the world.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/16/swiss-vote-referendum-world-highest-minimum-wage-manufacturing
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May 17, 2014, 06:43:48 PM
 #54

The Swiss are proposing an equivalent of £14.70 per hour minimum wage - which would make it the highest in the world.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/16/swiss-vote-referendum-world-highest-minimum-wage-manufacturing

Remember this one : ?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=358727.0

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/switzerland-to-vote-on--2-800-monthly-%E2%80%98basic-income%E2%80%99-minimum-for-adults-181937885.html


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May 17, 2014, 10:05:59 PM
 #55

When price levels rise with wages, output declines and it would have hugely negative inflationary effects. Even small increases on minimal wages have been shown to have large effects down the line on unemployment and general shopping baskets.

One of the best things about America is the low minimum wages in certain states. Sure wish we had that in the UK.

I'm sorry, but this seems like the propaganda going around about the evils of raising the minimum wage; do you have any decent sources to back that up?


It depends what you mean by sources.

Almost no economists would dispute the negative economic effects that increasing the minimum wage can have on society by driving price levels up. http://ftp.iza.org/dp1072.pdf

Just typical AS/AD diagram shows this...

The real problem is a political and a welfare one, which is much harder to model.
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May 18, 2014, 04:20:24 AM
 #56

I'm sorry, but this seems like the propaganda going around about the evils of raising the minimum wage; do you have any decent sources to back that up?

It depends what you mean by sources.

Almost no economists would dispute the negative economic effects that increasing the minimum wage can have on society by driving price levels up. http://ftp.iza.org/dp1072.pdf

Just typical AS/AD diagram shows this...

The real problem is a political and a welfare one, which is much harder to model.

Well, yes of course it is harder to model it when you're looking at the real world, but that's what you have to work with; and in this context there is no evidence that small increases to the minimum wage will have large negative effects down the line, especially when you consider my previous argument and the fact that productivity continues to increase.

As for "no economists disputing the negative economic effects that increasing the minimal wage can have on society", here's someone who disagrees:
An interview with Robert Pollin from the Political Economy Research Institute on The Real News: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKXTUJrk3GY.
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May 18, 2014, 05:11:07 AM
 #57

The Swiss are proposing an equivalent of £14.70 per hour minimum wage - which would make it the highest in the world.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/16/swiss-vote-referendum-world-highest-minimum-wage-manufacturing

Switzerland's economy is looking strong, thanks to the financial sector. I think they can afford a minimum wage of £14.70 per hour ($25 per hour), despite the effect it can have on the inflation.
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May 18, 2014, 12:21:09 PM
 #58

How do you think they're going to pay for it? Higher taxes and when they can't squeeze more money out of people, hyperinflation and more borrowing, you have people cheer leading this but they have clearly never considered the mathematics behind this.
Actually, when you consider the mathematics, if people are being paid more, it stands to reason that more tax revenue would be generated.  You wouldn't need to raise the levels of tax.  Also, the more disposable income people have, the more they will spend, hence more money circulating in the economy.

All this Austerity nonsense we have at the moment is contributing towards the stagnation of our economy.  If people are relying on food banks because they can't afford to buy food, that means less people are buying food.  Less money being spent means less money circulating in the economy.  While a wealthy minority (who wouldn't be able to spend the same proportion of their overall wealth if they tried) just end up accumulating and hoarding their money, so again there's less money in circulation. 

A healthy economy doesn't have skyrocketing disparity between rich and poor.  If you think the current "trickle down" theory we use today actually works, you've got it all backwards, I'm afraid.

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Balthazar
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May 18, 2014, 12:23:54 PM
 #59

Simple increasing of average wage won't change anything, because this action will cause proportional jump of inflation.
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May 18, 2014, 12:43:50 PM
Last edit: May 18, 2014, 12:57:22 PM by Lethn
 #60

How do you think they're going to pay for it? Higher taxes and when they can't squeeze more money out of people, hyperinflation and more borrowing, you have people cheer leading this but they have clearly never considered the mathematics behind this.
Actually, when you consider the mathematics, if people are being paid more, it stands to reason that more tax revenue would be generated.  You wouldn't need to raise the levels of tax.  Also, the more disposable income people have, the more they will spend, hence more money circulating in the economy.

All this Austerity nonsense we have at the moment is contributing towards the stagnation of our economy.  If people are relying on food banks because they can't afford to buy food, that means less people are buying food.  Less money being spent means less money circulating in the economy.  While a wealthy minority (who wouldn't be able to spend the same proportion of their overall wealth if they tried) just end up accumulating and hoarding their money, so again there's less money in circulation.  

A healthy economy doesn't have skyrocketing disparity between rich and poor.  If you think the current "trickle down" theory we use today actually works, you've got it all backwards, I'm afraid.

When have I ever said I support trickle down economics? Way to go with your rant against an imaginary version of myself, do you even understand how money printing works? In an economy where we don't have money printing yes, tax revenue would go up, but the point is people barely have any money as it is now, if you raised the minimum wage then the government would be forced to print more and devalue the currency to support it. Then that would push up the prices of everything, then that would mean that the minimum wage raise would do absolutely nothing for your average person and in fact make their lives worse because you just pushed everything up and made them have to work longer for less.

This isn't a matter of 'tax the rich' and to be fair, I don't really give a crap much about corrupt and rich CEO's, they're a different matter entirely, what I'm talking about are the average businesses out there that are struggling, if the minimum wage was raised and they couldn't afford it, they'd be put out of business and that's a mathematical fact, you can't ignore that just because it's inconvenient to your world view.

As I said before, your conclusion completely ignores hyperinflation, you need to go and read up on it, as for trickle down economics, that's just made up bullshit created by Aristocrats and Oligarchs to justify them stealing from people through hyperinflation and they've used tricks like this for centuries, it's the equivalent of having a feast at a table and then giving their employees the leftovers and saying that their employees are benefiting from their kindness while of course always keeping the majority of the food for themselves.
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