[Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?

[zolace]

so what the idea of basic income and rise of wages? I believe that it's at least worth considering. Sooner or later we as a society will have to face the challenges created by the technological development and its effects on employment. Computerization, advancements in robotics and manufacturing and soon self-driving cars, the future is already here and jobs will be lost. It's true that the history teaches us that for every job lost due to a technological revolution thousands new are created but will it be the case this time as well? Basic income might just become a necessity to keep the economy from collapsing.

[u9y42]

so what the idea of basic income and rise of wages? I believe that it's at least worth considering. Sooner or later we as a society will have to face the challenges created by the technological development and its effects on employment. Computerization, advancements in robotics and manufacturing and soon self-driving cars, the future is already here and jobs will be lost. It's true that the history teaches us that for every job lost due to a technological revolution thousands new are created but will it be the case this time as well? Basic income might just become a necessity to keep the economy from collapsing.

The great majority of jobs are already in the services sector; considering many of those could be easily automated tomorrow if we wanted, I'm not sure it would be possible to re-train everyone for others tasks anytime soon. And even then, re-train them to do what exactly? Official youtube/facebook like giver? Or for that matter, forum poster?

[DooMAD]

so what the idea of basic income and rise of wages? I believe that it's at least worth considering. Sooner or later we as a society will have to face the challenges created by the technological development and its effects on employment. Computerization, advancements in robotics and manufacturing and soon self-driving cars, the future is already here and jobs will be lost. It's true that the history teaches us that for every job lost due to a technological revolution thousands new are created but will it be the case this time as well? Basic income might just become a necessity to keep the economy from collapsing.

The Green Party have something similar to this in their manifsto, they're calling it a citizen's income:

A Citizen's Income sufficient to cover an individual's basic needs will be introduced, which will replace tax-free allowances and most social security benefits. A Citizen's Income is an unconditional, non-withdrawable income payable to each individual as a right of citizenship. It will not be subject to means testing and there will be no requirement to be either working or actively seeking work.

The Citizens' Income will eliminate the unemployment and poverty traps, as well as acting as a safety net to enable people to choose their own types and patterns of work. The Citizens' Income scheme will thus enable the welfare state to develop towards a welfare community, engaging people in personally satisfying and socially useful work.

When the Citizens' Income is introduced it is intended that nobody will be in a position that they will receive less through the scheme than they were entitled to under the previous benefits system. Children will be entitled to a reduced amount which will be payable to a parent or legal guardian. People with disabilities or special needs, and single parents will receive a supplement.

Initially, the housing benefit system will remain in place alongside the Citizens' Income and will be extended to cover contributions towards mortgage repayments. This will subsequently be reviewed to establish how housing benefit could be incorporated into the Citizen's Income, taking into account the differences in housing costs between different parts of the country and different types of housing.

[u9y42]

so what the idea of basic income and rise of wages? I believe that it's at least worth considering. Sooner or later we as a society will have to face the challenges created by the technological development and its effects on employment. Computerization, advancements in robotics and manufacturing and soon self-driving cars, the future is already here and jobs will be lost. It's true that the history teaches us that for every job lost due to a technological revolution thousands new are created but will it be the case this time as well? Basic income might just become a necessity to keep the economy from collapsing.

The Green Party have something similar to this in their manifsto, they're calling it a citizen's income:

A Citizen's Income sufficient to cover an individual's basic needs will be introduced, which will replace tax-free allowances and most social security benefits. A Citizen's Income is an unconditional, non-withdrawable income payable to each individual as a right of citizenship. It will not be subject to means testing and there will be no requirement to be either working or actively seeking work.

The Citizens' Income will eliminate the unemployment and poverty traps, as well as acting as a safety net to enable people to choose their own types and patterns of work. The Citizens' Income scheme will thus enable the welfare state to develop towards a welfare community, engaging people in personally satisfying and socially useful work.

When the Citizens' Income is introduced it is intended that nobody will be in a position that they will receive less through the scheme than they were entitled to under the previous benefits system. Children will be entitled to a reduced amount which will be payable to a parent or legal guardian. People with disabilities or special needs, and single parents will receive a supplement.

Initially, the housing benefit system will remain in place alongside the Citizens' Income and will be extended to cover contributions towards mortgage repayments. This will subsequently be reviewed to establish how housing benefit could be incorporated into the Citizen's Income, taking into account the differences in housing costs between different parts of the country and different types of housing.

That reminds me of the unconditional income the Swiss had proposed a few months ago, as well as an European initiative with the same intention that failed to gather enough signatures to move forward. Also, things like these have been tested before, as in for example Mincome, in Canada. Too bad no one ever bothered to continue looking at it. 

[zolace]

well that I can agree with , thanks for your inputs

[etm]

Do you think the government should force employers at the point of a gun to pay a wage that the federal government comes up with and spur the robot and automation industry to replace jobs or send jobs overseas?

The way you state it sounds very bias. Like the type of person that cares more about ideology than truly thinking through what the best solution would be.

[Mike Christ]

Sub poll:
   How many libertarians and anarchists voted "yes"?

I did just for kicks.  It'd be a very good lesson for people as to what the real effect of a minimum wage is.

Do you think the government should force employers at the point of a gun to pay a wage that the federal government comes up with and spur the robot and automation industry to replace jobs or send jobs overseas?

The way you state it sounds very bias. Like the type of person that cares more about ideology than truly thinking through what the best solution would be.

Fair enough; the best solution is to stop interfering with the lives of individuals.  If a man feels he is worth $1/hr, so be it; if he feels he is worth $100/hr, so be it; who are we to tell him his "minimum worth"?  It assumes he is as an animal, or that we are as gods: either he is too stupid to make decisions for himself, or we are so beyond him we should dictate his wages.  People aren't animals, people can reason, and if a man reasons $1/hr as his ideal wage, so be it.  The only thing a minimum wage does is create unemployment, as anyone who is not worth $7.50/hr (or whatever has been decided) is not going to get to work, and thus cannot get the experience necessary to be worth more than $7.50/hr.  Now you've created a dependency class; this is fundamental in our welfare/warfare society, as these people will literally go along with whatever you're doing so long as you feed and clothe them.

[Elwar]

Do you think the government should force employers at the point of a gun to pay a wage that the federal government comes up with and spur the robot and automation industry to replace jobs or send jobs overseas?

The way you state it sounds very bias. Like the type of person that cares more about ideology than truly thinking through what the best solution would be.

It is difficult for some people to hear things the way they actually are. It is much better to think that people are following laws because they agree with them. Not because they are forced to do so under threat of being kidnapped and thrown in a cage.

[peeveepee]

Market is run by supply and demand.

If someone else can do a job for cheaper, business will use the cheaper labor.

[stompix]

Market is run by supply and demand.

If someone else can do a job for cheaper, business will use the cheaper labor.

This is exactly what a minimum wage is doing to prevent the situation.
It forces the company to pay a minimum wage even if people are willing to do it for less.

[bryant.coleman]

This is exactly what a minimum wage is doing to prevent the situation.
It forces the company to pay a minimum wage even if people are willing to do it for less.

There are advantages as well as disadvantages. Recently I have noticed the trend by several employers, of using cheap illegal labor. This results in the unemployment of the well-qualified native citizens. Minimum wage, prevents this. But at the same time, it encourages unhealthy practices, such as blackmailing by employee unions.

[stompix]

This is exactly what a minimum wage is doing to prevent the situation.
It forces the company to pay a minimum wage even if people are willing to do it for less.

There are advantages as well as disadvantages. Recently I have noticed the trend by several employers, of using cheap illegal labor. This results in the unemployment of the well-qualified native citizens. Minimum wage, prevents this. But at the same time, it encourages unhealthy practices, such as blackmailing by employee unions.

The minimum wage doesn't prevent this , it is the cause of it. If they would be able to pay legally less , they will do it legally , if they are forced to pay something that makes no sense to their production cost, they will employ on the blackmarket.

[BitBlitz]

fuck minimum wage. everything should be nationalised including homes who would belong to those living in them not landowners and the shareholder property owner classes should be exterminated if they put up a fuss.

Perhaps you should look up the definition of nationalize. 

[niothor]

fuck minimum wage. everything should be nationalised including homes who would belong to those living in them not landowners and the shareholder property owner classes should be exterminated if they put up a fuss.

And we got a commie right here , such a rare sight on this forum.

You want to do the same as the Russian did to the kulaks :?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulak

[Elwar]

fuck minimum wage. everything should be nationalised including homes who would belong to those living in them not landowners and the shareholder property owner classes should be exterminated if they put up a fuss.

I like this idea. And why stop with property? Many ugly men go their whole lives without having sex with a beautiful woman while good looking men have hot girlfriends. This is obviously unfair. Men with hot girlfriends need to give them up proportionally to ugly men a few times a month for sex to even things out. Same with good looking guys being required to have sex with ugly women. Equal rights for all. Nationalize it all.

[niothor]

fuck minimum wage. everything should be nationalised including homes who would belong to those living in them not landowners and the shareholder property owner classes should be exterminated if they put up a fuss.

I like this idea. And why stop with property? Many ugly men go their whole lives without having sex with a beautiful woman while good looking men have hot girlfriends. This is obviously unfair. Men with hot girlfriends need to give them up proportionally to ugly men a few times a month for sex to even things out. Same with good looking guys being required to have sex with ugly women. Equal rights for all. Nationalize it all.

NO , NO and NO.
That is not how commies do it.

First the guy with a beautiful girlfriend will have to be shot. His family sent to siberia because with his cute girl he threatened the stability of the state.
Then the girlfriend will become common property for all the guys in town who have only managed to reach 2nd grade , are mentally retarded and suffer from alcoholism (the commie ruling class) and have wanked all their life.

[wasserman99]

I think we should try to find a system where...

I think the system you are looking for is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs..."

No, just that as western societies we can afford to cover the basic needs of everyone who lives here and we already do just that. The current way is just inefficient and bureaucratic. I want to keep doing the same and just find a way where there is always incentive to work or produce something.

If your basic needs are covered no matter what then if your ability to work will only pay for something just above your basic needs then you will likely not want to work at all because your needs are taken care of one way or another. This puts an overall drag on the economy.

[Eisenhower34]

fuck minimum wage. everything should be nationalised including homes who would belong to those living in them not landowners and the shareholder property owner classes should be exterminated if they put up a fuss.

I like this idea. And why stop with property? Many ugly men go their whole lives without having sex with a beautiful woman while good looking men have hot girlfriends. This is obviously unfair. Men with hot girlfriends need to give them up proportionally to ugly men a few times a month for sex to even things out. Same with good looking guys being required to have sex with ugly women. Equal rights for all. Nationalize it all.

I like your use of sarcasm in order to get your point across.

Nationalizing property and income is essentially socialism. Socialism will never succeed because people do not have an incentive to do their best work because they get the same reward no matter how they perform

[leannemckim46]

fuck minimum wage. everything should be nationalised including homes who would belong to those living in them not landowners and the shareholder property owner classes should be exterminated if they put up a fuss.

Bad idea! A nationalized industry is a failed industry. The end result of nationalizing an industry is that the workers would end up with less money and higher future liabilities.

[patt0]

If your basic needs are covered no matter what then if your ability to work will only pay for something just above your basic needs then you will likely not want to work at all because your needs are taken care of one way or another. This puts an overall drag on the economy.

As I like my work, I can't imagine myself not doing it, even if all my basic needs were taken care of. Of course not everyone likes their job, and a lot of people would try to take advantage, but I don't know if it would be the majority. Have you heard of mincome? I think we should try something like that xD