Why do you mine on deepbit?

[os2sam]

Using an usual pool instead of the P2Pool is like being fan of banks instead of Bitcoin.
You are hitting your foots

So you don't keep some of your regular currency in a bank?
Sam

I don't keep regular currency period. 

So you found a liquor store that accepts BTC?

Maybe I should have said legacy currency?
Sam

Call it what you want, I get rid of it ASAP. Yes, of course I use it for the accepted norms. But saving it, no. I use other methods to store wealth.

And funny you should bring it up, liquor is quite valuable in times of conflict. Not that I expect conflict where I live.

Sure for storing wealth it may well be prudent to use other things of value for savings.  But most of us need to keep a certain amount of our local currency liquid for immediate needs.  I use a bank/credit union for that purpose.

Maybe one day BTC will be used for immediate needs as well which is why I'm acquiring them.  With the current economy of the world it makes sense invest in an anti-inflationary currency.  But right now BTC cannot take the place of local currencies nor banks.
Sam

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[Minor]

Regarding the issue of noobs flocking to the biggest pools, couldn't that be prevented by building a P2Pool miner into the standard client instead of the solo mining feature?
Or at least offer it as a built-in alternative?
Just add gen= 1 and P2Pool=1 to your bitcoin.conf and voilà, you're mining on P2Pool.

I truly believe that we should seriously consider adding that to the client to restore the distributed computing aspect of bitcoin.

[Fiyasko]

Regarding the issue of noobs flocking to the biggest pools, couldn't that be prevented by building a P2Pool miner into the standard client instead of the solo mining feature?
Or at least offer it as a built-in alternative?
Just add gen= 1 and P2Pool=1 to your bitcoin.conf and voilà, you're mining on P2Pool.

I truly believe that we should seriously consider adding that to the client to restore the distributed computing aspect of bitcoin.

+1
Does anyone have a better idea? This is Exactly what we need

[flower1024]

+1 Gavin already said he would include it in bitcoin client.

but i guess its to early right now - i would wait until p2pool is a solution für really small AND really big miners (forrestv already thinking about it; atm with an p2pool around 150GH/s everybody can use it with relatively low variance)

EDIT
Searched for gavins post on bitcointalk but can't find it anymore. a few days ago a link to it was mentioned on #p2pool (freenode) - maybe its just too old to be found. Sorry

[broken]

Shouldn't we all push for decentralized pools, like P2Pool ?

Yes.

I'd love so see a bitcoin client with p2pool-technology built in; bring back the "generate coins" option!

But... that will take a while.
...

p2pool built into a bitcoin client is something I'd fully support, I think a lot of people would like a one-button "get a trickle of bit-pennies" option.

[Fiyasko]

Shouldn't we all push for decentralized pools, like P2Pool ?

Yes.

I'd love so see a bitcoin client with p2pool-technology built in; bring back the "generate coins" option!

But... that will take a while.
...

p2pool built into a bitcoin client is something I'd fully support, I think a lot of people would like a one-button "get a trickle of bit-pennies" option.

So guys. Lets start a bounty so that we can all get this Awesome feature implemented?
Generate coins-> GPU/CPU? "gpu" ->Please select mining software  "i choose cgminer" Okay, to run cgminer with p2pool, Add these ___ ____ ___ arguments to the miner.
the blanks being like the RPC info and the port

[Transisto]

*(repost)

The main reason why people keep mining at deepbit  :
DeepBit play on wording and lies to hides it's users how much they're being ripped off. (since most don't do the math from PPS to %.)

DO YOU SEE THIS ? :  

(deepbit homepage)

Pay Per Share: You get a fixed amount for every share submitted. This method has zero variance but slightly higher fee (because pool takes the risk). Recommended if you like steady payouts.

We pay a competitive price:
    Pay per share: 0.00003441081600403 BTC per every submitted share.

PPS Value = 0.00003823425 BTC/shares

0.00003823425 / 0.0000344108160 = ~10% FEES

 (Sorry for size/caps, I am really pissed.)

"Slightly" : The term is meaningless and is being abused hard in this case.

"Competitive price" : The claim is totally false. (not a single pool have higher fees)

[os2sam]

We pay a competitive price:
    Pay per share: 0.00003441081600403 BTC per every submitted share.

PPS Value = 0.00003823425 BTC/shares

0.00003823425 / 0.0000344108160 = ~10% FEES

 (Sorry for size/caps, I am really pissed.)

Why are you pissed?  Because the PPS fee is 10%?

Everyone knows DB has the highest PPS Fee.  It may not say 10% , but, it does give the actual price per share which every PPS pool, that I've seen, post's as well.  So it is easy to compare one PPS pool against another, even for ignorant noobs.

Sam

[PatrickHarnett]

Why annoyed?  How about envy?

Deepbit has created a site that allows it to generate income where other pools struggle and fail.  Their success is therefore a target to some.

No one is forcing you to mine there, or pay a huge fee.  Same as no one is forcing you to play roulette and lose 3% (european) or 6% (american) of your stake on average.

[Transisto]

We pay a competitive price:
    Pay per share: 0.00003441081600403 BTC per every submitted share.

PPS Value = 0.00003823425 BTC/shares

0.00003823425 / 0.0000344108160 = ~10% FEES

Why are you pissed?  Because the PPS fee is 10%?

Everyone knows DB has the highest PPS Fee.  It may not say 10% , but, it does give the actual price per share which every PPS pool, that I've seen, post's as well.  So it is easy to compare one PPS pool against another, even for ignorant noobs.

Sam

You'd be surprised how small is the % of people who compare PPS value, since most pool (80%+) post their fees in %.

This was the rest of my post on Bringing decentralization back to the Bitcoin network. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60492.msg706628#msg706628

Look at bittenbob post :

The problem is there aren't very many good pools to choose from. I started with DeepBit because there was some sense of security of being with the biggest pool. I switched to ABCPool because of their no fee at the time which they have since raised to a whopping 4%. Since the 4% fee their reliability has taken a dump and I have lost a lot of mining productivity due to this. If it was a 0% pool then it wouldn't be a problem but at 4% this is just unacceptable. As a result I am very seriously considering a move back to DeepBit. I don't like all the mining power concentrated in one pool but I do see the benefit of that pool. I do understand that pools take money to operate and the smaller the pool the more difficult it becomes but they do have to compete with the bigger pools and they have to remember that.

If a user with 600+ posts can be so clueless then we can't expect any better from the average Deepbit miner.

[Transisto]

Why annoyed?  How about envy?

Deepbit has created a site that allows it to generate income where other pools struggle and fail.  Their success is therefore a target to some.

No one is forcing you to mine there, or pay a huge fee.  Same as no one is forcing you to play roulette and lose 3% (european) or 6% (american) of your stake on average.

Lying is bad and that thing about decentralization of a decentralized currency.

Edit : WTF ? Did you just say the other half of hashing power (pools) struggle to generate incomes ?

BTW : Extremely low variance is moth as an argument because nobody actually need their 0.00001 bitcoin every next minutes.

[SgtSpike]

I'd wager that the vast, vast majority of deepbit users are NOT doing PPS.  And when stales and invalid blocks are counted for the non-PPS model, the actual deepbit fee is closer to 1 or 1.5%, a fee which I am happy to pay for a service without complications that never goes dark.

I agree that Bitcoin needs to continue to trend towards decentralization, and I'm not entirely happy that deepbit holds as much hashing power as it does, but I haven't found a pool that I like as well as deepbit.  *shrug*

[os2sam]

Why annoyed?  How about envy?

Deepbit has created a site that allows it to generate income where other pools struggle and fail.  Their success is therefore a target to some.

No one is forcing you to mine there, or pay a huge fee.  Same as no one is forcing you to play roulette and lose 3% (european) or 6% (american) of your stake on average.

Lying is bad and that thing about decentralization of a decentralized currency.

You call a pool posting exactly what they pay per share a lie?  I call it full disclosure.

If you think people are too lazy or too stupid to compare prices that is hardly something to get upset with DB about.  Actually I think that says more about what you think about your fellow Bitcoin enthusiasts.

I don't disagree with idea that the large pools are centralizing too much power in what is supposed to be a DEcentralized currency.  But that is hardly something to get pissed at any pool about.  What do you expect a pool to do?  Tell paying customers to go away?  That's ridiculous.
Sam

[Transisto]

You call a pool posting exactly what they pay per share a lie?  I call it full disclosure.

...

"Slightly" : The term is meaningless and is being abused hard in this case.

"Competitive PPS price" : The claim is totally false. (not a single pool have higher fees)

The only thing the lying part was about.

Maybe it was not big/bold enough.

[PatrickHarnett]

Why annoyed?  How about envy?

Deepbit has created a site that allows it to generate income where other pools struggle and fail.  Their success is therefore a target to some.

No one is forcing you to mine there, or pay a huge fee.  Same as no one is forcing you to play roulette and lose 3% (european) or 6% (american) of your stake on average.

Lying is bad and that thing about decentralization of a decentralized currency.

Edit : WTF ? Did you just say the other half of hashing power (pools) struggle to generate incomes ?

BTW : Extremely low variance is moth as an argument because nobody actually need their 0.00001 bitcoin every next minutes.

I didn't say anything about any other pool.  I was observing that someone making money (or doing something well) attracts attention.  I find the emotion tied into the arguments entertaining.

Also, if a user of any service doesn't bother to find out what it costs, is that always the supplier's fault?  Maybe people should change to cheaper ISP/telco/insurance/gas providers - obviously anything above minimum would be unreasonable in some people's eyes.

[Transisto]

Lying is bad and that thing about decentralization of a decentralized currency.
...

...
Also, if a user of any service doesn't bother to find out what it costs, is that always the supplier's fault?  Maybe people should change to cheaper ISP/telco/insurance/gas providers - obviously anything above minimum would be unreasonable in some people's eyes.

Ok, now, That thing about False advertising.

[os2sam]

You call a pool posting exactly what they pay per share a lie?  I call it full disclosure.

...

"Slightly" : The term is meaningless and is being abused hard in this case.

"Competitive PPS price" : The claim is totally false. (not a single pool have higher fees)

The only thing the lying part was about.

Maybe it was not big/bold enough.

If your quote was a stand alone statement your interpretation would be true.  But you have ripped it out of context.  Here is the complete quote

"We pay a competitive price:

    * Pay per share: 0.00003441081600403 BTC per every submitted share"

Since you/we/others may rightfully quibble about what constitutes a "competitive price" (subjective), having the actual price listed there does constitute full disclosure (objective).

Sam

[PatrickHarnett]

Lying is bad and that thing about decentralization of a decentralized currency.
...

...
Also, if a user of any service doesn't bother to find out what it costs, is that always the supplier's fault?  Maybe people should change to cheaper ISP/telco/insurance/gas providers - obviously anything above minimum would be unreasonable in some people's eyes.

Ok, now, That thing about False advertising.

False advertising - that's the use of the term "slightly" right?  I thought (generally) that advertisers were professionals at over-reaching the limits of words.  Out of interest I went to the deepbit front page and noticed they have changed the words since I first signed up.  It used to be clear the fee was 10%, now it's just the BTC/share.  I'm not sure how much a share is worth (presumably 50/difficulty) and not especially interested as mining is only a part of what I do.

I feel inspired to make a pool that charges a 20% or 50% fee, as I'm sure there will be some people that might stupidly sign up.  I could write all sorts of crap over the front page that might not be strictly false, but could be misleading.

[Transisto]

...
The forum sigs that call deepbit "enemy of Bitcoin" and whatnot are offensive. [Tycho] has done a lot to provide miners with a place to reliably mine Bitcoins for a long time now.

I agree,

For my part I have been lurking at all pools for quite a while and only lately been able to figure out what % deepbit fee was for PPS.

There is little info for comparison, there are a few other pool that display their PPS instead of % and I guess it is not obvious for most what the formula to get real value of a share is. (50 Btc / difficulty) that is : 50 / 1307728 = 0.0000382343...

[os2sam]

For my part I have been lurking at all pools for quite a while and only lately been able to figure out what % deepbit fee was for PPS.

I don't know why "only lately" you have been able to figure you that DB charges a 10% PPS fee.  Tycho has posted several times to DB customers that the fee is 10%.  So the information in % was and is freely available to DB miners.  And the actual price has *always* been available on the main page.

I haven't mined PPS on DB in months.  But I do still mine proportional there when the luck is good.  Like today.
Sam