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Author Topic: The way US government can crack down Silk Road, Tor and Bitcoin  (Read 13459 times)
Serith
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January 31, 2012, 02:51:56 AM
 #1

1. Silk Road sells guns.
2. Guns could be used by terrorists.
3. Use that as an excuse to apply NDAA and detain random Bitcoin and Tor users.
4. Profit!

EDIT: To elaborate second point: a government agency would be only required to present some evidence that a gun sold by Silk Road ended up in hands of a terrorist.
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January 31, 2012, 02:53:11 AM
 #2

1. Silk Road sells guns.
2. The US has a 30 year war on drugs.
3. Profit (or not).
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January 31, 2012, 02:53:46 AM
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sure they can, but they wont be able to track those who use the proper precautions.
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January 31, 2012, 02:57:47 AM
 #4

1. Silk Road sells guns.
2. The US has a 30 year war on drugs.
3. Profit (or not).

30 years ago NDAA didn't exist
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January 31, 2012, 03:05:25 AM
 #5

1. Silk Road sells guns.
2. Guns could be used by terrorists.
3. Use that as an excuse to apply NDAA and detain random Bitcoin and Tor users.
4. Profit!

1. Walmart sells guns.
2. Guns could be used by terrorists.
3. Terrorists could be used as cashiers at Walmart.
4. Take harmonica lessons.
5. Screw profit.

They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
Serith
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January 31, 2012, 03:05:54 AM
 #6

sure they can, but they wont be able to track those who use the proper precautions.

The goal would not be to track individuals but to destroy Tor, Bitcoin and Silk Road
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January 31, 2012, 03:07:00 AM
 #7

1. Silk Road sells guns.
2. Guns could be used by terrorists.
3. Use that as an excuse to apply NDAA and detain random Bitcoin and Tor users.
4. Profit!

1. Walmart sells guns.
2. Guns could be used by terrorists.
3. Terrorists could be used as cashiers at Walmart.
4. Take harmonica lessons.
5. Screw profit.

Unlike Silk Road, legal sellers comply with government regulations.
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January 31, 2012, 03:31:47 AM
 #8

1. Silk Road sells guns.
2. Guns could be used by terrorists.
3. Use that as an excuse to apply NDAA and detain random Bitcoin and Tor users.
4. Profit!

1. Walmart sells guns.
2. Guns could be used by terrorists.
3. Terrorists could be used as cashiers at Walmart.
4. Take harmonica lessons.
5. Screw profit.

Unlike Silk Road, legal sellers comply with government regulations.

Like the 2nd amendment? Fat chance.

It will only require one claim that a gun sold by Silk Road ended up in hands of a terrorist. And by the way, NDAA directly violates 6th amendment, so appeal to constitution worth nothing.
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January 31, 2012, 04:27:09 AM
 #9

Not that it negates anything said here, but I suspect anyone selling guns on silk road is the government itself.  A trap.


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Serith
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January 31, 2012, 04:32:19 AM
 #10

Not that it negates anything said here, but I suspect anyone selling guns on silk road is the government itself.  A trap.

Not possible, sellers on Silk Road have ratings much like eBuy, and customers can leave comments about transactions.
ZodiacDragon84
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January 31, 2012, 04:47:08 AM
 #11

Can you leave feedback if you go to jail? Shocked

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January 31, 2012, 04:53:53 AM
 #12

Can you leave feedback if you go to jail? Shocked

Not positive feedback...

But seriously the gov can build up a good reputation too. Not that I think they are yet, and even when they do it'll probably be to watch and learn mostly.

Hitting random bitcoin users would be pretty lol. Are they going to admit it's some random bitcoin or TOR user? Hope people figure it out and get scared? Maybe messing with high profile users would matter some, but does that scare people really?

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January 31, 2012, 05:17:52 AM
 #13

my main concern was that jail doesnt have internet, so no TOR, thus, no silk road, THUS, no feedback that hey, guy x is a FED!!!! lol

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January 31, 2012, 06:01:03 AM
 #14

Hitting random bitcoin users would be pretty lol. Are they going to admit it's some random bitcoin or TOR user?
It won't be a conspiracy scheme, just bureaucrats who would  honestly try to do their job better.

Hope people figure it out and get scared? Maybe messing with high profile users would matter some, but does that scare people really?
I think that's a valid point. It all depends on how deep US will be. If only one or two people detained at any given moment, then you right, it won't matter much, but US democracy is in downfall and several years from now the scenario could become possible.
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January 31, 2012, 09:14:16 AM
 #15

What guns? Silk Road mainly sells drugs, that is already illegal, and apparently already enough reason to try to shutdown it and bitcoin, according to some polititions. They don't even have to care about guns.

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January 31, 2012, 01:20:45 PM
 #16

What guns? Silk Road mainly sells drugs, that is already illegal, and apparently already enough reason to try to shutdown it and bitcoin, according to some polititions. They don't even have to care about guns.

Priorities?? Illegal activities are happening every second. Terrorism is a major priority for the US government, while Silk Road actually solves problems regarding to the drug industry for governments(no violence and higher quality drugs(lower risk to users) due to feedback).

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January 31, 2012, 02:15:17 PM
 #17

Quote
Silk Road actually solves problems regarding to the drug industry for governments(no violence and higher quality drugs(lower risk to users) due to feedback).

That's not how they see it.

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January 31, 2012, 02:36:07 PM
 #18

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Silk Road actually solves problems regarding to the drug industry for governments(no violence and higher quality drugs(lower risk to users) due to feedback).

That's not how they see it.

What makes you think so? I do think governments, especially the US government, are not rational in their decisions, but they aren't completely stupid as well. There is only one senator who caught some attention about this subject, but as far as we can see nothing has changed but SR being more well-known. I do think allowing guns to be sold is a bad way to go for SR, I hope they reconsider changing back to their former policy.

Also, not all US conservatives think the same about drugs, this judge has some great points and they should be heard more often:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6t1EM4Onao

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February 01, 2012, 03:54:33 AM
 #19

Terrorism is a major priority for the US government
I think you hit the nail on the head. Wink

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February 01, 2012, 01:00:34 PM
 #20

I'm not really sure how drugs benefit society, maybe blowing off steam? Not that I have a problem with people who want to take drugs. But to suggest that drugs are cool, but guns are bad is silly. In my opinion.

Without drugs there wouldn't be any society http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoned_ape_theory#.22Stoned_Ape.22_theory_of_human_evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogens

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February 01, 2012, 01:23:48 PM
 #21

1. Silk Road sells guns.
2. Guns could be used by terrorists.
3. Use that as an excuse to apply NDAA and detain random Bitcoin and Tor users.
4. Profit!

EDIT: To elaborate second point: a government agency would be only required to present some evidence that a gun sold by Silk Road ended up in hands of a terrorist.
Actually, for USA government, drugs are much worse than guns. Guns are fine in USA, am i right? With the emendment thing

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February 01, 2012, 02:11:27 PM
 #22

Silk Road doesn't sell drugs or guns.

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February 01, 2012, 03:21:55 PM
 #23

I did not see any weapon on SR that can be really useful to terrorist. Most terrorists already have easy and cheap access to wide assortment to assault rifles. Don't know how useful they will find overpriced Glock or Beretta in US-specific calibers.

OK, go for it, try destroy Tor, Bitcoin. Be sure to destroy the copy of Bitcoin and Tor source code located on my PC and thousands of another user's PC.

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February 01, 2012, 04:19:50 PM
 #24

If you want weapons in USA you just go in a shop and buy whatever you want...

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February 01, 2012, 04:25:49 PM
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If you want weapons in USA you just go in a shop and buy whatever you want...

Then the question is: who needs overpriced guns from SR when normal people can buy guns in the US freely?

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February 01, 2012, 04:26:26 PM
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right now i think we're in a gray zone with the us govt.  I think they are hoping we just go away/self destruct.   if they started cracking down on silkroad/bitcoin users they would validate bitcoin as a viable currency and silk road as an easy way to score drugs and guns . Not to mention all the free press bitcoin and silkroad would get.  now if more ppl start using silkroad/bitcoin  that will probably change.   I definately agree that there are probably feds with accounts on silkroad, mostly to gather information.  I mean i'd love to believe that the united states would be above selling guns to random ppl for information/political gain but em, fast and furious comes to mind. So the probability that there is a seller with good feedback out there making a list of buyers for uncle sam is very high imo.  

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February 01, 2012, 04:35:39 PM
 #27

If you want weapons in USA you just go in a shop and buy whatever you want...

Then the question is: who needs overpriced guns from SR when normal people can buy guns in the US freely?
It's for ppl not in the US i suppose.

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February 01, 2012, 04:45:43 PM
 #28

If you want weapons in USA you just go in a shop and buy whatever you want...

Then the question is: who needs overpriced guns from SR when normal people can buy guns in the US freely?

Felons and people who don't want paper trails. 

If you want weapons in USA you just go in a shop and buy whatever you want...

Yep, we got that part right at least.

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February 01, 2012, 05:00:27 PM
 #29

If you want weapons in USA you just go in a shop and buy whatever you want...

Then the question is: who needs overpriced guns from SR when normal people can buy guns in the US freely?
According to an article (gizmodo?) that quoted one of the SR sellers "Dbush", most of his sales were to European customers outside the USA.

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February 01, 2012, 10:31:38 PM
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cocaine is criminalized in USA because slaves stood up for their rights under influence of cocaine, therefore they created the law against cocaine. before it, cocaine was given by doctor as medicament and even widely used by society. when they criminalized it, crowd of people finished in the prison, they became cheap labor for private companies which make contracts with prisons.

so, how can gov destroy btc, tor and silkroad?
they can scare people with blabla in all medias against any anonymous currency which allow to the people anonymous transactions and savings (to avoid taxes).
they don't need to make new law, they can just use present law about transactions, savings and taxes and they can begin to hunt people. the same like in the case of megaupload, one arrested will not stop piracy but others will become afraid and police produce damage in any case, so, they are happy, even they didn't stop all piracy sites. police just act as politicians say them to do, so, some chiefs of cops will get promotion and better paid job. in order to get promotion, someone must finish in the prison. they don't care who and how many.
tor is used by military and its intelligence, I don't think anyone will destroy tor network.
silkroad can be destroyed by FBI hackers, they can attack server where is located silkroad, they can make it very slow or even blocked, they can spam it, troll it, destroy reputation and so on. that's standard tactic of FBI against any political opponent (Black Panthers, Martin Luther King, etc). so, there is nothing new to do, all things are already done in the past against some other enemies of FBI, you just need to read about it and you will recognize their tactics. FBI don't care for the law, when they decide to attack, they will use any tool to destroy what they want to destroy.

debit cards websites are companies registered in London by Lithuanians who demand from you your phone, ID and utility bill, that's enough for them to make offshore companies on your name without your knowledge and they can get a bank account and make financial crimes on your name, or they can simply sell IDs. don't give to anyone too much info.
why they need more than your ID when your local bank demands only ID?
don't use coinbase, they are NSA spying shit, they make database of people that use bitcoins.
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February 01, 2012, 10:42:43 PM
 #31

i just now realized that i need to start stock piling semi automatic weapons and munitions... never know who will show up at your door...

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February 02, 2012, 12:27:48 AM
 #32

What makes you think so? I do think governments, especially the US government, are not rational in their decisions, but they aren't completely stupid as well. There is only one senator who caught some attention about this subject, but as far as we can see nothing has changed but SR being more well-known. I do think allowing guns to be sold is a bad way to go for SR, I hope they reconsider changing back to their former policy.

Why are guns worse than drugs in your opinion?

In my opinion, guns are more important to maintaining a free society than any other tool available except knowledge/information. If you are speaking with someone that only knows the language of violence, you have but one chance of getting your point across, violence. And I'm referring to self defense from aggression, in which case violence is a priceless tool. I don't know if the people who would purchase guns on the SR are aggressive thugs or just people exercising their rights without needing to jump through the hoops required by governments worldwide.

I'm not really sure how drugs benefit society, maybe blowing off steam? Not that I have a problem with people who want to take drugs. But to suggest that drugs are cool, but guns are bad is silly. In my opinion.
Very well said, Holliday.

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March 13, 2012, 01:56:51 AM
 #33

If SR, TOR, or BITCOIN ever stop working anonymously that is the end for those services...
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March 13, 2012, 02:30:26 AM
 #34

I concur, violence gets shit/ stuff done.

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March 13, 2012, 07:29:32 AM
 #35

pretty sure it's still part of SR
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March 13, 2012, 02:38:43 PM
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pretty sure it's still part of SR

nope its different servers and everything. 
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March 13, 2012, 04:49:30 PM
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They will probably attempt to infiltrate SR/Armoury like the feds have done countless other underground markets. SR was even hiring publically a while back for database people, and if you've ever read up on previous stings like Darkmarket you know all about how they became admins there and took it down. That said there are no bulk transactions really on SR so why bother when they are already swamped with Mexican cartel madness.. elite ex soldiers trafficking by the kilo in every US city and hidden cells of assassins is probably a higher priority than a few grams in the mail

If I was tasked with the job of taking down the Armoury the first thing I would do is fill it with bogus listings and ship RFID tracked packages and pick up the buyers, spreading uncertainty in the market so nobody trusts it. To get at old sellers order their stuff, and trace the serial numbers and match it up with their shipping locations to narrow it down.

Can also social engineer these guys.. claim your weapon has a problem and you want to exchange it or trade or anything to get the guy to agree to receive a shipment for you. Now wait for his runner to show up to collect it, threaten them with eleventy billion years in prison, they talk, you go pickup the gun runner. There are countless ways to infiltrate the armoury I'm sure they're all doing it right now.

Europe/Canada/UK freak over anonymous gun shipments and will no doubt pressure the US to help them crackdown on shippers.... which really doesn't make sense since the worst Euro terrorist Anders Breivik bought all his weapons legally anyways (after failing to buy them illegally in Eastern europe)
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March 13, 2012, 10:28:23 PM
 #38

lmao why would darkmarket let others be admins, what a gay place
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March 13, 2012, 11:23:58 PM
 #39

lmao why would darkmarket let others be admins, what a gay place

http://www.hahgay.com

Because the guy who ran cardersmarket was pwning their server left and right, so FBI undercover offered to 'help with security'.. this builds trust.. then dude made him co-admin and it's all downhill from there

However that was secret service/FBI.. DEA probably isn't that competent to takeover SR
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March 14, 2012, 07:47:28 PM
 #40

If i were selling guns, id dead drop them ahead of time, then when the sale went through, just tell them where the gun is. drugs could work this way as well. Although i can not think of anything similar for people buying stuff.

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March 14, 2012, 08:42:04 PM
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yeah? where are you going to stash the guns?
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March 15, 2012, 07:41:57 PM
 #42

yeah? where are you going to stash the guns?

The park, the woods, abandoned houses(not so good idea?), a river, a lake(water tight container in this case). GPS is so cheap today its not even funny, so that would not really be a problem, even if it were not very accurate, as long as you were also given some landmark too, like the 3rd bush from the left from that red house as you come in from the highway, approaching from the north.

rat
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March 17, 2012, 04:49:57 PM
 #43

i love all these armchair revolutionaries talking about how the government can take SR down, "but they can't kill TOR and BTC" bullshit.

they can do whatever the fuck they want.

they can't stop TOR and BTC - but are you going to fuck with that shit when they are threatening you not to?

they said the same shit about file sharing sites - now many of them are shutting down VOLUNTARILY. cuz they are scared.


we got guys under indefinite detention in this country.

so let's stop all this "from my cold dead hands" gayness.

arguing from the constitution is fail - it's worthless.
ctoon6
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March 18, 2012, 12:30:29 AM
 #44

i love all these armchair revolutionaries talking about how the government can take SR down, "but they can't kill TOR and BTC" bullshit.

they can do whatever the fuck they want.

they can't stop TOR and BTC - but are you going to fuck with that shit when they are threatening you not to?

they said the same shit about file sharing sites - now many of them are shutting down VOLUNTARILY. cuz they are scared.


we got guys under indefinite detention in this country.

so let's stop all this "from my cold dead hands" gayness.

arguing from the constitution is fail - it's worthless.

you are 100% right. The current internet is broken, so we need a new network, set up in such a way that it is better for freedom of speech and such, and not friendly to draconian legislation and control.

Other than that, all you can do is arm yourself with liberty and serve justice to those that need it most. I am a firm believer in fighting fire with fire, as we all know protesting is usually slow and ineffective.

The constitution is just a piece of paper with stuff written on it 224 years, 6 months and 1 day ago. it is only useful (or has power) as long as both parties agree to obey and defend it. The only binding law is the law that gets defended. Everything anyone ever does is nothing more than a bunch of agreements. For example, your money is an agreement to pay debt as a later date. Your bank accounts are nothing more than a running total of amounts of "money" to be moved around to certain people/entities.

grue
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March 18, 2012, 02:03:53 AM
 #45

If I was tasked with the job of taking down the Armoury the first thing I would do is fill it with bogus listings and ship RFID tracked packages and pick up the buyers, spreading uncertainty in the market so nobody trusts it. To get at old sellers order their stuff, and trace the serial numbers and match it up with their shipping locations to narrow it down.
RFID tracked packages? good luck detecting them from more than 10 m away Roll Eyes

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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legitnick
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March 18, 2012, 02:04:11 AM
 #46

hm

5 BITCOIN RAFFLE GIVEAWAY
"I dont lift" - Lord Furrycoat
albe
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April 04, 2012, 12:53:52 PM
 #47

Mc gyver can.  Tongue Tongue
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