Evidence of Neo Nazi in Ukrainian military units.

[bryant.coleman]

Yarosh: Right Sector to guard voting stations in eastern Ukraine during elections

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/yarosh-right-sector-to-guard-voting-stations-in-eastern-ukraine-during-elections-349016.html

lol.. what more do we need? The Neo-Nazis will ensure that all the votes will be cast for their candidate.

[TaunSew]

It's the same in the US military.  While no documented study has been done, I'm going with the assumption that gangmembers and Neo-Nazi make for better soldiers than teenagers looking for tuition telief / uneducated youth who went with the military because it pays more than a McJoB.

[bitsmichel]

It's the same in the US military.  While no documented study has been done, I'm going with the assumption that gangmembers and Neo-Nazi make for better soldiers than teenagers looking for tuition telief / uneducated youth who went with the military because it pays more than a McJoB.

Neo-Nazi are quite spread across the globe, US included. You can even find Neo-Nazis in Africa 

[negafen]

In war, people die.

[Balthazar]

It's the same in the US military.  While no documented study has been done, I'm going with the assumption that gangmembers and Neo-Nazi make for better soldiers than teenagers looking for tuition telief / uneducated youth who went with the military because it pays more than a McJoB.

Neo-Nazi are quite spread across the globe, US included. You can even find Neo-Nazis in Africa 

[Trading]

Before your post, a user posted some considerations explaining/justifying the Volyn massacre. I wrote that he was justifying the massacre of minorities. He deleted his post.
I wasn't expecting that you, Balthazar, an old member of the forum, would do the same about the crimes of Stalin. I wonder if you shouldn't review your post. Sometimes we get carry on by an argument and write something that we really didn't want. I'm not even going to go with you to that debate, even if it's a period of History that interest me. I'm not Russian or Ukrainian and, as a human being and citizen of the world, I'm ashamed of both those crimes.
But see as you clean the blame from the russian people, even if it was the central Government supported by the same russian people (that carry those criminal orders of a Georgian, ok, but that is a detail) the responsible from those crimes. It's like saying the Germans that obeyed all the criminal orders had no responsibility, because Hitler was an Austrian. But you have no problem to blame all the Ukrainians for crimes committed by armed groups not coordinated by any Ukrainian government (that didn't exist) during a time of nazi occupation.
Present Ukrainians and Russians are as responsible as me or any other human from what their parents did. Blame is not transferable to our sons.

I called the Svoboda a right wing party, I accept they are extremists, but I wouldn't put them in the same place of the right sector. Anyway, they got about 10% votes on the last elections. But you are passing judgement on the other 90% of the Ukrainian because of the views of this minority.
The Svododa has 5 elements on the Ukrainian Government that has 21 members, that is hardly a majority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yatsenyuk_Government#Changes_to_composition
You didn't presented any evidence that the Ukrainian Government is fascist. But, of course, the Ukrainian are crazy for having a party like that in their Government.

[Balthazar]

I wasn't expecting that you, Balthazar, an old member of the forum, would do the same about the crimes of Estaline.

If you read this post carefully then you'll understand that it's not a justification, it's simply a description of things which some people are stubbornly refusing to notice. If you think that I'm biased then you need to know that a half of my ancestors died because of these repressions.

[Trading]

You said he had "serious reasons" and his measures were necessary, but well I'm going to take your word on that. But, have no doubts, everyone that reads you will think like me.
Necessary measures? He saw plots everywhere. Prepare for war with Germany? He decapitated the red army on 1937-1938. And contrary to the usual histories, the decimation didn't stop there. Many officers that had experience on the spanish civil war and the war with Japan of 1938-1939 were also removed. He was warned by many people. Sorge gave him the actually date of the German attack. He didn't believe anyone.

[247crypto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bLcPzo6i8E

[Balthazar]

Trading

<sarcasm>It seems that you know Stalin better than Stalin himself.</sarcasm>  

But you are passing judgement on the other 90% of the Ukrainian because of the views of this minority.

I would like to see where I have said something like this. I'm waiting for my quote or your apologies, you choose.

I called the Svoboda a right wing party, I accept they are extremists, but I wouldn't put them in the same place of the right sector. Anyway, they got about 10% votes on the last elections.

Nobody cares about their share neither in the government nor in the parliament. The important thing is that is actually being done by the government. Now they're putting pressure against journalists, presidential candidates and opposition parties.

The Svododa has 5 elements on the Ukrainian Government that has 21 members, that is hardly a majority:

I'm rolling on the floor because of laughing, who cares about elections or share?   They are in the "government" and parliament now, that's enough. It's not a democracy, if you forgot about that.

Share is irrelevant, because lesser number of seats could be easily compensated using physical violence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKMVFtPsFI

right in the parliament.

One MP is able to cast five votes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pDn0KMaFNE

Presidential candidates could be beaten right beside the building of TV station:



Opposition parties could be removed from the parliament:

http://rian.com.ua/analytics/20140506/347378670.html

You can use any term whatever you like, but it's a fascism. NSDAP did the same in 1933.

You said he had "serious reasons" and his measures were necessary, but well I'm going to take your word on that. But, have no doubts, everyone that reads you will think like me.

I've said what I said. You'll be surprised, but I don't care how and who would think while reading this message. I'm not a presidential candidate, and we are not participants of the TV show. And you are wrong when saying something like this:

He was warned by many people. Sorge gave him the actually date of the German attack. He didn't believe anyone.

Let me guess, you're not very good at playing chess? You shouldn't think so narrowly when it comes to managing a state. What makes you think that he didn't believe the received information? Of course he believed, but he couldn't do anything.

• If USSR would have made the first move, then Hitler would have an ideological advantage. This is very important. Then he would be able to sign an agreement on mutual assistance with US or anybody else and this would strengthen his positions.
• If the troops would be deployed near the border, this would be interpreted as preparation for the invasion, giving the same ideological advantage.

You will be surprised, but we see the same situation right now. Obama along with his puppets would like very much to see, how Russia occupies Ukraine. They are continuously put the blame on Putin for invasion to east regions, troops near the border, etc. They're are using fake evidences, old photos as the "proofs" and attacking own troops in the friedly fire.

Similar things were seen on the western soviet borders in 1940-1941:

http://podvig.gpk.gov.by/article/history_border_services/border_on_the_eve_of_war/

So the best option is simply ignore all provocations, don't do anything and wait for the first move. Just like Putin does right now.

He decapitated the red army on 1937-1938. And contrary to the usual histories, the decimation didn't stop there. Many officers that had experience on the spanish civil war and the war with Japan of 1938-1939 were also removed.

Of course he did all these things.

Yes, his forced industrialization has led to famine, from which many people have died.
Yes, a lot of stupid things with the elimination of personnel was done. Such as Vavilov, for example.
Yes, a lot of people were suffered from the repressions because of false denunciations.

So what? On the contrary we see:

Without industrialization USSR would be incapable to fight with anyone, occupation of the entire european part of territory would require less than few weeks.
Without personnel cleanings a new revolution would have occurred.

As they say about managers "method is irrelevant, but the result is important". Are you disagree? Or, maybe, you would prefer to see an occupation of entire european part of USSR territory in the 40s? In the latter case I am sorry, but this is not an acceptable option.

[Trading]

I know very well the Volyn massacres, but 70 years passed. Lets not judge an all people for what some of their parents did.

You have to forget about political correctness, it's the only way to save your life from remake of the Volyn massacre. We have to judge them for this. It doesn't matter how many thousands of years passed, because they're promoting these monsters as their heroes, they're doing it right now.

Read what I wrote and your answer. I think I did had all the right to think you were talking about all the Ukrainian, that allowed people like that to be members of their Government.
But your correction makes your sentence more acceptable.

Unless you think the ministers of that party punch the others in the face until they comply with their wishes, they are in minority in the Government and hence in most cases the Government doesn't adopt their policy. Therefore, the Government is not a fascist one, at most he has some fascists elements. And the Parliament was democratically elected. Probably, the previous Ukrainian elections were much more democratic than the ones in present Russia. I admit the future elections are going to be problematic, as the Russian referendums on the east were.

I'm not going to roll here all the atrocities of Stalin that had nothing to do with forced industrialization. I wrote I wouldn't go into this debate. Anyway, you are justifying at least these atrocities connected with forced industrialization.

And, no, most of the specialists think Stalin didn't believe those reports. Even if the history that Khrushchev writes in his memoirs about Stalin being away in depression after the German attack is a lie (told him by Beria, he says), many witnesses (including Zhukov) writing about the issue said he was completely surprised. If Soviet Union was expecting an imminent attack it would be much better prepared, if not near the boarders to avoid a provocation, at least with defenses away from them.

Actually, there are many writers, including several specialists, mainly Russians (V. Suvorov, M. Meltiukhov, V. Nevezhin, V. Danilov and A. Solzhenitsyn) but also Germans (J. Hoffmann, W. Strauss, F. Becker) and Austrians (H. Magenheimer, E. Topitsch) that argue that Stalin was indeed preparing its own offensive against Germany, some claiming it would occur also on 1941, under a presented plan from Zhukov, quoting original soviet documents.
He could done much more than he did, short of a preemptive attack that would be a disaster, as Zhukov later admitted, since his plan had flaws.

Well, the debate was fun, even if it could be more without the sarcasm. Thank you.

[247crypto]

that allowed people like that to be members of their Government.

LOL
This "Government" is founded not by elections.

[Trading]

Yes, but all governments are in power because people don't overthrown them. In the end, all power rests on consent, at least from the army that keeps obeying. The allies censured the German people for not revolting against the Nazis. Anyway, that was a rhetorical justification.
But I end here my participation in this debate.

[bryant.coleman]

Worse than what the Nazis did in WW2. Patients and staff hiding in basements after hospital being shelled by the Ukrainian army in Slavyansk.



Andrea Rocchelli, Italian reporter killed in Sloviansk.

[247crypto]

Every moron has a facebook page where he pretends to be more than he is, after buying some thousand likes on Five.

Listen what is written on truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESSLLmy4nbg

[bryant.coleman]

Italian journalist Andrea Ronchelli believed to have been killed in Ukraine

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/25/italian-journalist-andrea-ronchelli-believed-killed-ukraine

[kuroman]

The US, EU and Israel needs to think twice before supporting these goons and supplying them with arms and ammunition. The regular Ukrainian soldiers are refusing to fight the civilians, while it is the Right Sector militants who are usually put on the front line.

they already did, didn't you check the new government composition and relation to neo nazi groups? Sadly the real loser here is Ukrain and Ukrainian population, while Russia and the west are only fighting for their geopolitical and economical interest.

[bitsmichel]

The US, EU and Israel needs to think twice before supporting these goons and supplying them with arms and ammunition. The regular Ukrainian soldiers are refusing to fight the civilians, while it is the Right Sector militants who are usually put on the front line.

they already did, didn't you check the new government composition and relation to neo nazi groups? Sadly the real loser here is Ukrain and Ukrainian population, while Russia and the west are only fighting for their geopolitical and economical interest.

I second this, most of the people do not have direct benefit. For example, if you own a house in the ukraine.. whats the market price value now?

[TaunSew]

The US, EU and Israel needs to think twice before supporting these goons and supplying them with arms and ammunition. The regular Ukrainian soldiers are refusing to fight the civilians, while it is the Right Sector militants who are usually put on the front line.

they already did, didn't you check the new government composition and relation to neo nazi groups? Sadly the real loser here is Ukrain and Ukrainian population, while Russia and the west are only fighting for their geopolitical and economical interest.

I second this, most of the people do not have direct benefit. For example, if you own a house in the ukraine.. whats the market price value now?

Probably the same.  Houses in every country remain on market for years, even decades, until they find some sucker to buy it off them.  Eastern Europe is full of terrible homes that are listed for $500K+, like it's a joke. 

[kerafym]

Probably the same.  Houses in every country remain on market for years, even decades, until they find some sucker to buy it off them.  Eastern Europe is full of terrible homes that are listed for $500K+, like it's a joke. 

Local people pay different price.

Most likely the estate agency trying to find sucker abroad.