You work your butt off, and a rich dude does nothing and gets rich - how?

[Ozziecoin]

Please provide your best explain.  Mine is here: My explain (read before commenting or providing your explanation)



USA

Look at your money supply, USA. Wow! All those extra dollars, making Donald Trump feel justified in telling you how to live your life and to be like him.



Can debt rise faster than wages forever?  Only Keynesian and Monetarist economists think so.  


Europe

Don't laugh at our Americans friends, my European friends. Look at all these extra dollars the European banking system and the ECB has created:



This is why you had such a nice time leading up to the GFC.  Now, your Governments realise it is crazy to let debt expand uncontrollably.  Unfortunately, this is causing a lot of pain and misery for the 99%.  


China

This is not a Western Economic issue.  The big gap between rich and poor also exists in China.  Look at this:



This is a rigged system to my eyes.

[1714802561]

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[1714802561]

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[1714802561]

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[beatljuice]

The basic premises of your argument are good because creating money (fractional reserve) does take value away in general, but it in no way takes the full percentage created.

Fiat currency has value for the same reason Bitcoin has value - because people use it.

No, one bank doesn't create 90% of what it lends. The effect is cumulative as banks borrow on money that was borrowed on money that was borrowed.

So, while the bank may create a lot of money through using a fractional reserve - as that money is used it gains value just like it does for Bitcoin. That's why we won't see explosive inflation on the US dollar anytime soon because the US dollar has a lot of intrinsic value based on the fact that almost everyone on Earth will accept it as payment.

This doesn't mean I don't think the dollar is in serious trouble, just that the "crash" won't be as dramatic as some alarmists would like you to believe.

[Ozziecoin]

The basic premises of your argument are good because creating money (fractional reserve) does take value away in general, but it in no way takes the full percentage created.

Fiat currency has value for the same reason Bitcoin has value - because people use it.

No, one bank doesn't create 90% of what it lends. The effect is cumulative as banks borrow on money that was borrowed on money that was borrowed.

Sorry to burst your bubble here bud:

Lehman held $373 billion of "net assets" and a "net leverage ratio" of 16.1  As in they retained 6.25% in equity in the best case scenario.

The UK banks have a leverage ratio of less than 3% as of last month (April 2014).  As in they retained less than 3% in equity.

The banks DO NOT CARE what are in deposits.  They are lending out MORE than 90% of what they take in as deposits. Moreover, by creating loans they are creating their own deposits:

Lord Adair Turner, formally the UK's chief financial regulator, said "Banks do not, as too many textbooks still suggest, take deposits of existing money from savers and lend it out to borrowers: they create credit and money ex nihilo – extending a loan to the borrower and simultaneously crediting the borrower’s money account".

I think it's important to understand that the money supply is being inflated to high heaven and that asset prices are being pushed up as a consequence.  

We are not talking about hyperinflation, we are talking about theft in day light.

See the M3 growth for your own country here: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/

[trashymonkey]

Poor people work for their money, rich people have their money work for them.


And that is the way of the world. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[the joint]

Taking a devil's advocate position, if we consider your argument to be true then it's implied that one solution for poor people is take out loans.  The incentive for doing so would be to obtain money to purchase property and/or assets that will appreciate in value.  When it comes time to repay the loan, the amount owed will be less valuable than the property/assets you bought. 

This happens all the time.  This is how businesses are created, how college degrees are obtained, etc.

I think you're mistakenly identifying the fractional reserve system as the most significant cause behind the (very general) problem of increasing gross wealth disparity.  Sure, fractional reserve banking inflates the money supply, but competition (whether it's fair or unfair/illegal) and greed are more direct causes of gross wealth disparity than the appreciation in value of 'idle' property/assets (i.e. not a business; perhaps a home or a gold bar).  In the unlikely event that I go to sleep tonight and wake up tomorrow morning to a totally altruistic world, I have a feeling that much of that wealth disparity would disappear rather quickly (e.g. rich people might donate to the poor or work for free, hospitals and medicines from pharmaceutical companies would be at low or no-cost, etc.). 

[Ron~Popeil]

Taking a devil's advocate position, if we consider your argument to be true then it's implied that one solution for poor people is take out loans.  The incentive for doing so would be to obtain money to purchase property and/or assets that will appreciate in value.  When it comes time to repay the loan, the amount owed will be less valuable than the property/assets you bought. 

This happens all the time.  This is how businesses are created, how college degrees are obtained, etc.

I think you're mistakenly identifying the fractional reserve system as the most significant cause behind the (very general) problem of increasing gross wealth disparity.  Sure, fractional reserve banking inflates the money supply, but competition (whether it's fair or unfair/illegal) and greed are more direct causes of gross wealth disparity than the appreciation in value of 'idle' property/assets (i.e. not a business; perhaps a home or a gold bar).  In the unlikely event that I go to sleep tonight and wake up tomorrow morning to a totally altruistic world, I have a feeling that much of that wealth disparity would disappear rather quickly (e.g. rich people might donate to the poor or work for free, hospitals and medicines from pharmaceutical companies would be at low or no-cost, etc.). 

It is a combination of fractional reserve and crony capitalism. Competition is never a bad thing. Competition on a government induced tilted playing field is a disaster for 90% of us. 

[Ozziecoin]

Taking a devil's advocate position, if we consider your argument to be true then it's implied that one solution for poor people is take out loans.  The incentive for doing so would be to obtain money to purchase property and/or assets that will appreciate in value.  When it comes time to repay the loan, the amount owed will be less valuable than the property/assets you bought.  

This happens all the time.  This is how businesses are created, how college degrees are obtained, etc.

I think you're mistakenly identifying the fractional reserve system as the most significant cause behind the (very general) problem of increasing gross wealth disparity.  Sure, fractional reserve banking inflates the money supply, but competition (whether it's fair or unfair/illegal) and greed are more direct causes of gross wealth disparity than the appreciation in value of 'idle' property/assets (i.e. not a business; perhaps a home or a gold bar).  In the unlikely event that I go to sleep tonight and wake up tomorrow morning to a totally altruistic world, I have a feeling that much of that wealth disparity would disappear rather quickly (e.g. rich people might donate to the poor or work for free, hospitals and medicines from pharmaceutical companies would be at low or no-cost, etc.).  

Hey Devil's advocate, nice to have you here. Glad we have lawyer types in here to defend Satan.

And here is why I think FRB IS THE MOST SIGNIFICANT CAUSE BEHIND WEALTH DISPARITY:

1. You are the Queen of England - you do nothing - you don't even sell property.  You become far wealthier than everyone.

2. Above applies to every land owning aristocrat/businessman/realtor.  

3. Some smart guys realise the system is COMPLETELY RIGGED.  What do you do?  You borrow HEAPS OF MONEY, you start XYZ Hedge Fund and you buy any kind of asset for the heck of it.  You look smart doing it and get tons of bonuses and profit.  Everyone thinks you're a hero until M3 collapses. Then everyone thinks you're an idiot.  But hey, you're rich.

4. Some other dumb people with no college degree happen to work in real estate.  Wow, they get rich because they get a cut of every transaction!!!  They look smart but actually they're just average.  

5. Other dumb people work in banking and get cheap loans and have "good careers" in banking.  They become successful and respected in society. Whilst nurses, engineers, firemen, teachers, computer programmers and FAST FOOD WORKERS all struggle to keep up with the cost of living.

6. Smart engineers, physicists and mathematicians are co-opted into the banking system to design financial algorithms that benefit the 1%.

So yeah. I blame FRB.  The finance sector as a percentage of the US economy has increased from less than 3% to over 7%.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/12/14/389487/financial-sector-gdp-recession/

According to the latest data from the Commerce Department, the financial sector now accounts for 8.4 percent of the United States’ Gross Domestic Product, “eclipsing the peak it hit in 2006.” In the 1950s, the financial sector accounted for less than 3 percent of GDP. Meanwhile, financial firms are once again making more than 30 percent of all corporate profits in the U.S.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/financialization-as-a-cause-of-economic-malaise/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

According to a new article in the Journal of Economic Perspectives by the Harvard Business School professors Robin Greenwood and David Scharfstein, financial services rose as a share of G.D.P. to 8.3 percent in 2006 from 2.8 percent in 1950 and 4.9 percent in 1980. The following table is taken from their article.

[twiifm]

This wacko again?  Someone should lock this dude OzzieCoin in a box and throw away the key

[Ozziecoin]

This wacko again?  Someone should lock this dude OzzieCoin in a box and throw away the key

Adding anything to the explanation mate or just here to say hi?

[Ozziecoin]

Aussies, see our money supply getting blown up:

[superresistant]

If you are smart, you should know that the system is rigged and exploit its flaws.

Cryptocurrency is the chance of our life.

I started with nothing in cryptos and my wealth is now going to the moon at the speed of light.
Cryptoworld is a land with no regulation and no rich people or politics to interfere.

You should stop trying to find excuses to the past and act now to change your destiny.

[boraf]

Poor people work for their money, rich people have their money work for them.


And that is the way of the world. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That is the main feature of capitalism.

If society organized itself to value labor more, it will be called "laborism".

[BitcoinBobbeh]

Poor people work for their money, rich people have their money work for them.


And that is the way of the world. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That is the main feature of capitalism.

If society organized itself to value labor more, it will be called "laborism".

Read Rich Dad Poor Dad.

It's kinda gimmicky but if you're young it helps you understand so many basic economic principles.

Create assets.

[Ozziecoin]

If you are smart, you should know that the system is rigged and exploit its flaws.

Cryptocurrency is the chance of our life.

I started with nothing in cryptos and my wealth is now going to the moon at the speed of light.
Cryptoworld is a land with no regulation and no rich people or politics to interfere.

You should stop trying to find excuses to the past and act now to change your destiny.

This people - pay attention!  Please 

[the joint]

Taking a devil's advocate position, if we consider your argument to be true then it's implied that one solution for poor people is take out loans.  The incentive for doing so would be to obtain money to purchase property and/or assets that will appreciate in value.  When it comes time to repay the loan, the amount owed will be less valuable than the property/assets you bought. 

This happens all the time.  This is how businesses are created, how college degrees are obtained, etc.

I think you're mistakenly identifying the fractional reserve system as the most significant cause behind the (very general) problem of increasing gross wealth disparity.  Sure, fractional reserve banking inflates the money supply, but competition (whether it's fair or unfair/illegal) and greed are more direct causes of gross wealth disparity than the appreciation in value of 'idle' property/assets (i.e. not a business; perhaps a home or a gold bar).  In the unlikely event that I go to sleep tonight and wake up tomorrow morning to a totally altruistic world, I have a feeling that much of that wealth disparity would disappear rather quickly (e.g. rich people might donate to the poor or work for free, hospitals and medicines from pharmaceutical companies would be at low or no-cost, etc.). 

It is a combination of fractional reserve and crony capitalism. Competition is never a bad thing. Competition on a government induced tilted playing field is a disaster for 90% of us. 

Regardless of 'good' or 'bad', competition means there will be winners and losers.  So, competition catalyzes wealth disparity, but the degree to which that disparity exists is mediated in part by fractional reserve banking and crony capitalism.

[CoinRocka]

The basic premises of your argument are good because creating money (fractional reserve) does take value away in general, but it in no way takes the full percentage created.

Fiat currency has value for the same reason Bitcoin has value - because people use it.

No, one bank doesn't create 90% of what it lends. The effect is cumulative as banks borrow on money that was borrowed on money that was borrowed.

Sorry to burst your bubble here bud:

Lehman held $373 billion of "net assets" and a "net leverage ratio" of 16.1  As in they retained 6.25% in equity in the best case scenario.

The UK banks have a leverage ratio of less than 3% as of last month (April 2014).  As in they retained less than 3% in equity.

The banks DO NOT CARE what are in deposits.  They are lending out MORE than 90% of what they take in as deposits. Moreover, by creating loans they are creating their own deposits:

Lord Adair Turner, formally the UK's chief financial regulator, said "Banks do not, as too many textbooks still suggest, take deposits of existing money from savers and lend it out to borrowers: they create credit and money ex nihilo – extending a loan to the borrower and simultaneously crediting the borrower’s money account".

I think it's important to understand that the money supply is being inflated to high heaven and that asset prices are being pushed up as a consequence.  

We are not talking about hyperinflation, we are talking about theft in day light.

See the M3 growth for your own country here: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/

I find it very interesting that the countries with the highest debt/GDP ratios are the ones heavily involved in bitcoin:

US
Japan
Singapore
Belgium
Ireland

PLAN "BTC"

[gondel]

Sorry,
but dont really understand this chart the OP posted...
The world is like this: there is rich people and there is poor people..there is no middle point. Everyone who think he is in the middle point is actually poor. Thats it!

BR,
Gondel

[practicaldreamer]

The UK (physically) is largely owned by the same people today as it was in the 19th century.

  Its called being born at the right time and in the right place. Or luck  .

[Ozziecoin]

Sorry,
but dont really understand this chart the OP posted...
The world is like this: there is rich people and there is poor people..there is no middle point. Everyone who think he is in the middle point is actually poor. Thats it!

BR,
Gondel

read this please gondel, http://ozziecoin.com/?page_id=1068

[Ozziecoin]

The UK (physically) is largely owned by the same people today as it was in the 19th century.

  Its called being born at the right time and in the right place. Or luck  .

You're right. I call this aristocracy, not meritocracy.