You work your butt off, and a rich dude does nothing and gets rich - how?

[Ozziecoin]

Mainstream economics has lost all credibility. Time for a new and better understanding of what goes on in our economies. Hopefully, we can all stand back and frankly assess where money actually comes from. And what effects that debt-money has on our economic systems.

Personally, I'm sick of the blind bandaid solutions that conventional economists have recommended. We can see the US will not achieve economic recovery, not even close. Something is wrong with the Greenspan/Bernanke/Yellen/Krugman view of economics. They have clearly been misled and are not wise enough to realise that their policies are hurting poor/middle classes whilst enriching the rich. There is no doubt in my mind they have caused great harm on ordinary people, whether intentionally or otherwise. Enough is enough. Let these blind people practice their crafts of self delusion on themselves. Get rid of them. Let them be recognised for what they are in history books. Let people write about what Tim and Hank did during the GFC.

There will be a new school of economics that will debunk the myths of mainstream economics, pointing out the very obvious flaws: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/7/21/global-news/are-students-revolting-or-it-economics

So business-as-usual has returned. But it won’t be business-as-usual at Kingston. I’ve been hired with the express mandate to take a University that is open to non-orthodox thought in economics and make it even stronger. We will teach neoclassical economics as well, warts and all. And we will teach the many non-orthodox streams of thought (post Keynesian, evolutionary economics, econophysics) too.

In doing so, we’ll be responding to the successors of those students who, 41 years ago, fought for a different approach to economics at Sydney University. There are now at least 65 student organizations around the world calling for a new approach to economics in what they have titled ISIPE: the "International Student Initiative for Pluralism in Economics”.

[1714834363]

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[1714834363]

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[1714834363]

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[Cicero2.0]

Mainstream economics has lost all credibility. Time for a new and better understanding of what goes on in our economies. Hopefully, we can all stand back and frankly assess where money actually comes from. And what effects that debt-money has on our economic systems.

Personally, I'm sick of the blind bandaid solutions that conventional economists have recommended. We can see the US will not achieve economic recovery, not even close. Something is wrong with the Greenspan/Bernanke/Yellen/Krugman view of economics. They have clearly been misled and are not wise enough to realise that their policies are hurting poor/middle classes whilst enriching the rich. There is no doubt in my mind they have caused great harm on ordinary people, whether intentionally or otherwise. Enough is enough. Let these blind people practice their crafts of self delusion on themselves. Get rid of them. Let them be recognised for what they are in history books. Let people write about what Tim and Hank did during the GFC.

There will be a new school of economics that will debunk the myths of mainstream economics, pointing out the very obvious flaws: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/7/21/global-news/are-students-revolting-or-it-economics

So business-as-usual has returned. But it won’t be business-as-usual at Kingston. I’ve been hired with the express mandate to take a University that is open to non-orthodox thought in economics and make it even stronger. We will teach neoclassical economics as well, warts and all. And we will teach the many non-orthodox streams of thought (post Keynesian, evolutionary economics, econophysics) too.

In doing so, we’ll be responding to the successors of those students who, 41 years ago, fought for a different approach to economics at Sydney University. There are now at least 65 student organizations around the world calling for a new approach to economics in what they have titled ISIPE: the "International Student Initiative for Pluralism in Economics”.

I can remember just a few years ago in college hearing about what a hero Keynes was. I was one of the few that had the temerity to disagree. I think my professor hated me but I stood my ground and actually got an A in the class.   

[twiifm]

Mainstream economics has lost all credibility. Time for a new and better understanding of what goes on in our economies. Hopefully, we can all stand back and frankly assess where money actually comes from. And what effects that debt-money has on our economic systems.

Personally, I'm sick of the blind bandaid solutions that conventional economists have recommended. We can see the US will not achieve economic recovery, not even close. Something is wrong with the Greenspan/Bernanke/Yellen/Krugman view of economics. They have clearly been misled and are not wise enough to realise that their policies are hurting poor/middle classes whilst enriching the rich. There is no doubt in my mind they have caused great harm on ordinary people, whether intentionally or otherwise. Enough is enough. Let these blind people practice their crafts of self delusion on themselves. Get rid of them. Let them be recognised for what they are in history books. Let people write about what Tim and Hank did during the GFC.

There will be a new school of economics that will debunk the myths of mainstream economics, pointing out the very obvious flaws: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/7/21/global-news/are-students-revolting-or-it-economics

So business-as-usual has returned. But it won’t be business-as-usual at Kingston. I’ve been hired with the express mandate to take a University that is open to non-orthodox thought in economics and make it even stronger. We will teach neoclassical economics as well, warts and all. And we will teach the many non-orthodox streams of thought (post Keynesian, evolutionary economics, econophysics) too.

In doing so, we’ll be responding to the successors of those students who, 41 years ago, fought for a different approach to economics at Sydney University. There are now at least 65 student organizations around the world calling for a new approach to economics in what they have titled ISIPE: the "International Student Initiative for Pluralism in Economics”.

OMG you posted an article written by Steve Keen who is a self described post-Keynesian and MMT'r.  You obviously don't know what you are talking about when it comes to monetary theory because Steve Keen would not subscribe to bitcoin or any type of crypto.

A central tent of MMT is that money is endogenous, which means money is not created by Central Banks but from credit (loans).  MMT wouldn't even classify bitcoin as money in the first place.

This is why I can't stand this thread.  You keep posting misinformation based on your ignorance of economics.

C'mon man educate yourself

[Ozziecoin]

Notable quotes from Keen:

Banks, private debt, asset markets and money played essential roles in Minsky’s vision of capitalism, but they were completely ignored in mainstream economic models before the crisis. This is where Abbott was and is wrong: just because left-wing economists are ideological, it doesn’t follow that mainstream economics was logical. Crucially, its illogical decision to model capitalism as if banks, private debt and money didn’t exist led it massively astray when it came to perceive grave risks to the real economy.

[SunBin]

Mainstream economics has lost all credibility. Time for a new and better understanding of what goes on in our economies. Hopefully, we can all stand back and frankly assess where money actually comes from. And what effects that debt-money has on our economic systems.

Personally, I'm sick of the blind bandaid solutions that conventional economists have recommended. We can see the US will not achieve economic recovery, not even close. Something is wrong with the Greenspan/Bernanke/Yellen/Krugman view of economics. They have clearly been misled and are not wise enough to realise that their policies are hurting poor/middle classes whilst enriching the rich. There is no doubt in my mind they have caused great harm on ordinary people, whether intentionally or otherwise. Enough is enough. Let these blind people practice their crafts of self delusion on themselves. Get rid of them. Let them be recognised for what they are in history books. Let people write about what Tim and Hank did during the GFC.

There will be a new school of economics that will debunk the myths of mainstream economics, pointing out the very obvious flaws: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/7/21/global-news/are-students-revolting-or-it-economics

So business-as-usual has returned. But it won’t be business-as-usual at Kingston. I’ve been hired with the express mandate to take a University that is open to non-orthodox thought in economics and make it even stronger. We will teach neoclassical economics as well, warts and all. And we will teach the many non-orthodox streams of thought (post Keynesian, evolutionary economics, econophysics) too.

In doing so, we’ll be responding to the successors of those students who, 41 years ago, fought for a different approach to economics at Sydney University. There are now at least 65 student organizations around the world calling for a new approach to economics in what they have titled ISIPE: the "International Student Initiative for Pluralism in Economics”.

Their view is the reason why they are allowed be on top of the government food chain. The men behind the scene is putting the right puppets in the right position to steer the country toward their desire course.

[twiifm]

Notable quotes from Keen:

Banks, private debt, asset markets and money played essential roles in Minsky’s vision of capitalism, but they were completely ignored in mainstream economic models before the crisis. This is where Abbott was and is wrong: just because left-wing economists are ideological, it doesn’t follow that mainstream economics was logical. Crucially, its illogical decision to model capitalism as if banks, private debt and money didn’t exist led it massively astray when it came to perceive grave risks to the real economy.

Yeah exactly.  So why you keep thinking Central Banks and fractional reserve create money?

Central Banks create base money but half the money exists in shadow banking.   This is all uncharted territory and where the post-Keynesians & MMT'rs put their focus.  The issue is how to regulate shadow banking.  We already know how to deal w commercial banks

[hyperdimension]

Sorry,
but dont really understand this chart the OP posted...
The world is like this: there is rich people and there is poor people..there is no middle point. Everyone who think he is in the middle point is actually poor. Thats it!

BR,
Gondel

This then this.

[Ozziecoin]

Why house prices are so high: http://youtu.be/Y4WmDoYJhnk

It is purely caused by the kind of financial system that we have. Asset holders are not any smarter, they were simply born at the right time and into the right family.

[coinits]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

[lightfoot]

Quack Quack Quack.

(As I watch this thread slide into Duckspeak, I wonder how I can get it off my updated topics list)

[twiifm]

Why house prices are so high: http://youtu.be/Y4WmDoYJhnk

It is purely caused by the kind of financial system that we have. Asset holders are not any smarter, they were simply born at the right time and into the right family.

How did you watch that video and conclude a correlation between rich and lucky.   Video said nothing about that.

You seem to have a comprehension problem

[SHA255]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat.

[Ozziecoin]

@OP. You have logical flaw in your argument in the opening post.

Increased money supply is actually a bad thing for people that hold FIAT or investments that depend on the value of fiat. It is good for people/countries that have lot of debt.

Obviously this flaw doesn't change the fact that the kapitalism is sucking money from the workin folks and distributing upwards

Which is why rich people hold assets and not fiat. The fiat is being pumped into asset prices via private debt creation. Hope that makes sense.

[Ozziecoin]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat.

It should be very clear by now that banks are creating unlimited credit money on top of fiat. When the government then guarantees bank deposits, they effectively convert bank credit money into fiat.

Therefore, fiat is now the greatest Ponzi in all of history. This is because the banking sector is able to create unlimited amounts of effective fiat. See m3 money supply on page 1 of this post.

[51percemt]

Notable quotes from Keen:

Banks, private debt, asset markets and money played essential roles in Minsky’s vision of capitalism, but they were completely ignored in mainstream economic models before the crisis. This is where Abbott was and is wrong: just because left-wing economists are ideological, it doesn’t follow that mainstream economics was logical. Crucially, its illogical decision to model capitalism as if banks, private debt and money didn’t exist led it massively astray when it came to perceive grave risks to the real economy.

Yeah exactly.  So why you keep thinking Central Banks and fractional reserve create money?

Central Banks create base money but half the money exists in shadow banking.   This is all uncharted territory and where the post-Keynesians & MMT'rs put their focus.  The issue is how to regulate shadow banking.  We already know how to deal w commercial banks

it is important to understand that any major changes to the regulation of shadow banking can cause huge effects as the shadow banking system is highly leveraged

[twiifm]

Notable quotes from Keen:

Banks, private debt, asset markets and money played essential roles in Minsky’s vision of capitalism, but they were completely ignored in mainstream economic models before the crisis. This is where Abbott was and is wrong: just because left-wing economists are ideological, it doesn’t follow that mainstream economics was logical. Crucially, its illogical decision to model capitalism as if banks, private debt and money didn’t exist led it massively astray when it came to perceive grave risks to the real economy.

Yeah exactly.  So why you keep thinking Central Banks and fractional reserve create money?

Central Banks create base money but half the money exists in shadow banking.   This is all uncharted territory and where the post-Keynesians & MMT'rs put their focus.  The issue is how to regulate shadow banking.  We already know how to deal w commercial banks

it is important to understand that any major changes to the regulation of shadow banking can cause huge effects as the shadow banking system is highly leveraged

Your right about leveraging causing fragility but by definition shadow banking is unregulated banking.  We can regulate CDSs for example but the banks will just invent new financial intruments. 

[i dig bitcoins]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat.

Are you f*#king kidding me? You are joking right? If not, that is a hilarious statement...you ought to become a comedian.

[AdamSmith]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat.

Are you f*#king kidding me? You are joking right? If not, that is a hilarious statement...you ought to become a comedian.

If the currency and interest rate are regulated by market, then the statement "Fiat is generally backed by the economy(production and service) of the country" assessment is mostly correct.

[i dig bitcoins]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat.

Are you f*#king kidding me? You are joking right? If not, that is a hilarious statement...you ought to become a comedian.

If the currency and interest rate are regulated by market, then the statement "Fiat is generally backed by the economy(production and service) of the country" assessment is mostly correct.

You cannot generally back fiat...it is either backed or not. As well, by the very classification of FIAT means that it is back by nothing but the "Faith and Credit of the Govt"
Also, currency and interest rate are NOT regulated by the market...it is determined by the Federal reserve, specifically the FOMC. The two of you are spewing bullshit!!
Faith and Credit doesn't mean jack shit either as the credit is just monetized debt. Quit playing games, man.

[twiifm]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat.

Are you f*#king kidding me? You are joking right? If not, that is a hilarious statement...you ought to become a comedian.

If the currency and interest rate are regulated by market, then the statement "Fiat is generally backed by the economy(production and service) of the country" assessment is mostly correct.

You cannot generally back fiat...it is either backed or not. As well, by the very classification of FIAT means that it is back by nothing but the "Faith and Credit of the Govt"
Also, currency and interest rate are NOT regulated by the market...it is determined by the Federal reserve, specifically the FOMC. The two of you are spewing bullshit!!
Faith and Credit doesn't mean jack shit either as the credit is just monetized debt. Quit playing games, man.

Hardly anyone here knows the meaning of 'backed'.  It means 'convertible to'.

A long time ago when we had gold notes,   "backed by gold" means convertible to gold.  

Nowadays,  the Federal Reserve assets still have gold but mainly securities.  So USD is only convertible to USD but its value is derived from Feds assets.  On forex different currencies prices has to do w the issuing country's economic output amongst other things

Bitcoin,  however is pure speculation because its value is not derived from anything other than market forces.  The closest we ever got to a bitcoin economy was silk road.

Some people thinks the value of bitcoin is tied to the cost of production.   Like how much it costs to mine 1 BTC.   If you think this then you see bitcoin as a commodity not as a money

Credit is money by definition,  whether you have a moral objection to it or not