Cloudhashers - custom mining contracts starting from 0.01 BTC

[sillywhim]

Sillywhim, are you sure that those transaction fee are a must? I'm very newbie, so maybe I'm wrong.
But in your local wallet, under setting-options-wallet, isn't possible deactivate those transaction fees? I read there, fee are optional... I'm wrong?
Probably these are optional and different from fixed fees as you talking about? Could you confirm?

So I'll repeat myself then:

Us wallet users have the option of not sending any transaction fee but guess what, not adding a fee risks your transaction not being relayed by anyone and after a few days, the amount will be returned to one's wallet! So we are "forced" to pay a fee (especially for such a small amount of 0.5 BTC.)

Goggle "bitcoin miners fees"

[sillywhim]

How do you plan the asset of payouts when the difficulty grow next months? You'll bet everything for LTC growing this year, as never grow before?

That's not it. Cloudhashers doesn't expect LTC to grow, but to DECLINE THIS YEAR. They expect to mine more LTC in the future than they do now. They expect LTC mining difficulty to DECLINE, not increase in order to do these payouts. If LTC grows then that means mining difficulty grows and that means cloudhashers make less coin and that means eventually they'll be unable to do payouts.

Their Plan B disaster plan? They even expect to be able to throw enough ASICs into their mining pool to compensate for any increase in mining difficulty, presumably using our "investments". This is their business plan.

How do you feel now?

[sillywhim]

In my opinion, the warranty of 365 days payout to investors could be possible with differentiated asset, but a little bit complicated.

A "little bit" complicated???

So you're saying, in effect, that you do believe that a local joe in Illinois is able to achieve what donald trump can't, warren buffet can't...

...but he, a farmboy from some corn field in Illinois, can?  Actually a farm boy from Illinois did in fact achieve this ...Barrack Hussein Obama.

Objection withdrawn.

[cloudha$hers]

Hello, oh now I finally see what you mean. Just use blockchain.info wallet, they allow to send custom fee. For smaller deposits yes, this could be a problem. But most of the depositors like hourly payouts.
Actually there seems to be a simple solution to this, we can set up another deposit address for payouts once per 24 hours. Please confirm there's a need for this. If yes we will do it.

Great explanation! thanks a lot.
finally it's clear what you meant with fees. Guys don't use wallets which charge you for incoming transactions. Just don't use them. it is crazy.

Cloudhashers.net,  you still DO NOT UNDERSTAND. And it is this rather stubborn non-understanding that is worrisome to every sane person.

And I'm getting pissed.

No wallet charges for incoming transactions, ever. You did pay a fee to transmit it to our wallet addresses, this is true. But you paid bitcoin miners for this, not a "wallet" per se.

But we don't ever pay anything for incoming bitcoin transactions to our wallets.

But like you when we want to SPEND OUR BITCOINS, we customers DO HAVE TO PAY A FEE TO SEND OUT BITCOINS FROM OUR WALLETS to bitcoin miners, just like you did when you sent out bitcoin from your wallet to ours.

AN Example:

For the past few weeks, I've been getting a bitcoin payout in the amount of 0.0025 BTC every hour. I now got thousands of these tiny incoming transactions.

Let's say I want to send you 0.5 BTC. You give me an bitcoin address to send it to and in my wallet, I paste that bitcoin address of yours. Then I try to send out 0.5 BTC, and now all hell breaks loose...

...you see, I don't have 0.5 BTC available in a SINGLE transaction I got from you. No, every incoming payout from YOU to ME is just 0.0025 BTC (as an example).

So, what does my desktop wallet software (bitcoin-qt) do automatically? Bitcoin-QT wallet will send out 2000 transactions of 0.0025 BTC each (2000 x 0.0025 BTC = 0.5 BTC). So now Bitcoin-QT wallet has the 0.5 BTC to send, but what do you know.... Bitcoin-QT will add 0.0001 BTC FEE for each 1K in the transaction. Assuming here each transaction is 500 bytes, so for 2000 transactions, that's 1000K bytes. Bitcoin-QT will add 0.0001 BTC x 1000 = 0.1 BTC FEE.

So in this simplified example, Bitcoin-QT will add a fee of 0.1 BTC which will be paid to bitcoin miners for us to send you 0.5 BTC that involves 2000 incoming transactions. Our total outlay is 0.6 BTC to send you 0.5 BTC.

Us wallet users have the option of not sending any transaction fee but guess what, not adding a fee risks your transaction not being relayed by anyone and after a few days, the amount will be returned to one's wallet! So we are "forced" to pay a fee (especially for such a small amount of 0.5 BTC.)

Would it not be better for you cloudhashers.net to just send out ONE payout per day instead of your current TWENTY FOUR PAYOUTS PER DAY?

Please, please and please say now you understand the duress you are placing us under! (well the CEX hack it a great work-around. But still...)

For the example on your twitter where someone pasted a picture of his wallet accounting, the payouts you made to him totalled 0.00543864 BTC return, but the FEES TO SPEND THIS totalled .0061 BTC, A LOSS!!! That is why he said "UnProfitable Investment". He can't spend that 0.00543864 BTC ever.

Do you understand? It's spending that is the problem, not receiving. There are so many tiny payouts that the cost for bitcoin miners to handle a outgoing transaction is more than the btc amount is worth! Cause of what YOU DID by sending out tons of transactions!!!

It is rather stunning that you do not understand how bitcoin transactions actually happens in the most fundamental of ways...

One more quick example for completeness:

Say you sent me in one lump transaction, 1 BTC. Now I want to buy something on gyft that costs me 0.9 BTC. Using my trusty ol' Bitcoin-QT wallet, Bitcoin-QT says "wow, there's a 1 BTC transaction for me to use, I'll use it for my master's 0.9 BTC send request!"

So it transmits this 1 BTC transaction but only says "send 0.9 BTC to Gyft". But wait, that leaves 0.1 unaccounted for! So what's a ledger/blockchain pleasing wallet to do? Well, in the SAME TRANSACTION, it says to send 0.1 BTC to another bitcoin address.

Is thievery going on? No, Bitcoin-QT has automatically generated a new receiving bitcoin address for your wallet. This is called the "change" bitcoin address because it collects any "change" that results when an incoming transaction is larger than the amount debited.  

And this bitcoin change is available for your wallet's future use. And bitcoin-qt will "hide" this incoming change transaction from the history list. No additional transaction fee is necessary for this hidden incoming bitcoin as the fees were already taken cared of by the original 0.9 BTC payment to Gyft.

[jorgemk85]

Cloudhashers, please change my address.

Cloudhashers, i just made a deposit from address 19N1mzi191ZfuGounyGqeZLWAQKVFo1jAK. Please set the payment address to 1CuG1zXxbcwm54YZMQYsvatSM1vK349b3h as soon as you see this.

Thank you.

[cloudha$hers]

This all are valid concerns, we understand you. We're making more money then average miners due to some custom hardware, that's why we have to tread lightly. We will reveal more info though, after our operation has been completely set up.

Just newly checked over the web today, and I have found that the site cloudhashers.net is now in some black-list as probably scam, as Ponzi scheme. Cause the owner has submitted to the public a fake photo of his hardware. Sure you didnt a smart move, and this is not confortable for us, your investors.
I know the say no pain, no gain. But from there, the distance to become cheated is very tiny.

Lab location in Norway (?), and server IP si located in Illinois USA. The owner registred name is Peter Till (? from Cypro), but I guess it's a fake name, since in some message here he said he can't relase more info for "privacy reasons".

Me, as many people (I think) don't care about knowing your real address or real name, but at least you kindly could give us some addictional info about the activity.
How do you can get electricity so cheap in europe? Which kind of cheap custom asic do you use? The actual cheapest price for scrypt hardware (available in the market now) is about 8MHs/BTC, and mining today you can get 0,20 BTC in one month (converted from 15 LTC). How you can pay to us five time this gain? Did you pay hardware less of 1/5 of actual quotation?
Your hardware is mining LTC or others scrypt criptos?
Are you an individual or are you a team?
How do you plan the asset of payouts when the difficulty grow next months? You'll bet everything for LTC growing this year, as never grow before?
To be honest I think you need to give us those infos about the risks.

In my opinion, the warranty of 365 days payout to investors could be possible with differentiated asset, but a little bit complicated. However we would like to know some of this thing by your voice.

[cloudha$hers]

Done

Cloudhashers, please change my address.

Cloudhashers, i just made a deposit from address 19N1mzi191ZfuGounyGqeZLWAQKVFo1jAK. Please set the payment address to 1CuG1zXxbcwm54YZMQYsvatSM1vK349b3h as soon as you see this.

Thank you.

[jorgemk85]

Thank you very much!!

Isnt there any other way to make this changes faster? Sorry to be rushing but it seems like you answer to this forum or twitter once a day

[nabeton]

Hi, I just got back all my invest, now it's pure profit but I'm sitting on the fence whether invest again or not.

[sillywhim]

Hi, I just got back all my invest, now it's pure profit but I'm sitting on the fence whether invest again or not.

how much bitcoin moola did you make, anyhow?

[jorgemk85]

I've deposited some btcs and everything seems like advertised for now!

Already got 6% returned in just a couple of days so based on this, its safe to deposit, but remember to do it with a desktop wallet or from blockchain.info 

[cloudha$hers]

We're trying to check it more often now, as soon as we have all new hardware and new pool set up we'll be more dedicated to customer support. But in any case no support request remained unanswered for more than 24 hours.

Thank you very much!!

Isnt there any other way to make this changes faster? Sorry to be rushing but it seems like you answer to this forum or twitter once a day

[nabeton]

Hi, I just got back all my invest, now it's pure profit but I'm sitting on the fence whether invest again or not.

how much bitcoin moola did you make, anyhow?

not much, invested 0.017 BTC, payout 2 000 satoshi hourly.
I would invest more, but you know .... I'm worried  

[vn2359]

Not paid for 3 hours ago 
What's the matter?

[cloudha$hers]

Payments are being processed normally, please check your wallet

Not paid for 3 hours ago 
What's the matter?

[Max.B]

How do you plan the asset of payouts when the difficulty grow next months? You'll bet everything for LTC growing this year, as never grow before?

That's not it. Cloudhashers doesn't expect LTC to grow, but to DECLINE THIS YEAR. They expect to mine more LTC in the future than they do now. They expect LTC mining difficulty to DECLINE, not increase in order to do these payouts. If LTC grows then that means mining difficulty grows and that means cloudhashers make less coin and that means eventually they'll be unable to do payouts.

Their Plan B disaster plan? They even expect to be able to throw enough ASICs into their mining pool to compensate for any increase in mining difficulty, presumably using our "investments". This is their business plan.

How do you feel now?

Mate, are you sure to having understood the implications?
The litecoin now it's more or less 100 time lower than bitcoin. Their payouts are made in BTC, and I don't think BTC will still grow 100 times by now.
If they mine LTC, and LTC value grow like BTC, substantially they have to make esbursment for payouts about 100 time less of today.

If diff grow 200% they just mine half of actually LTC, but likely the value will at least double. (I know that those parameters are not closely related, but today we can just take btc as previous experience, and the value yes, will grow with diff growing).

You know that since sha256 Asics become in the market, the btc value it's gone to the stars. It's possible that the same thing happen to ltc.

If difficulty decline, will mean less market volume and less interest by stock exc. for this kind of "goods", and the value dramatically will decline.
So in this case they can't pay btc if they mine ltc undervalued. Well, at this point cloudhashers.net would disappear very fast. For me this is the real risk.

With "little bit complicated" I mean that if they have a good plan, they have considered this eventuality and for example they can mine other scrypt cryptos like ftc or so.

Yes, I know, too many "if"... and I was hoping the owner could say us something about a sort of B plan, Not me or other ppl but him..
I hope he is a true badass in his work and he will provide a strong warranty for his investors. (also I know well a saying in my country: who live in hoping, die shitting...lol)

[sillywhim]

You know that since sha256 Asics become in the market, the btc value it's gone to the stars. It's possible that the same thing happen to ltc.

Beg your pardon.

The $1200 per BTC price came the end of November 2013 (eight months ago, an eternity in the mining world), when a miner with ONLY a Jupiter hashing @ 600 GH/sec made a killing (approx $30K USD profit return). Pure profit, nice-n-sweet. I know this because of I was one of those miners.

Today everyone and their mother are selling sha256 Asic miners and as a result, that former happy miner @ 600 GH/sec is getting squat for his mining efforts. Rigs are now in the TH/sec range.

The fiat value from that time to today has HALVED and the hashing power required is now several orders of magnitude. How exactly has "btc value gone to the stars?" Do you have any sense of history?

I remember when I had 7 asciminer blades (13 GH/s per blade) that got me around 80-ish GH/sec and I was mining at least .8 to 1.2 BTC EACH DAY. I just checked @ dustcoin.com and hold onto your seat, to get that much BTC will now require you to have a 35 TH/sec miner(s), a stunning increase of 58x.

That's right FIFTY EIGHT TIMES more hash required. Has the fiat value gone up likewise? Insultingly, no ---it has gone DOWN by HALF.

I would say that contrary to your observation, the ever increasing power of asics have REDUCED the yields of most miners in general and has LOWERED the fiat money return per X hashing power SUBSTANTIALLY, not raised anything.

Pretty soon only petahash conglomerates will be mining and us mom-n-pop at home mining operations will wither away.

[sillywhim]

Payments are being processed normally, please check your wallet

Not paid for 3 hours ago  
What's the matter?

One payment has indeed gone missing. The missing payout is bracketed by previous and then subsequent payouts.

I watch cloudhashers payouts like a hawk BTW.

From CEX (times are my local timezone, HST -10:00 GMT):

2014-07-03 07:11:00    0.xxxxxxxx BTC   0.xxxxxxxx    DEPOSIT   -    Confirmed 87dab390f00920afec57c82c9e3703...

2014-07-03 06:44:35    0.xxxxxxxx BTC   0.xxxxxxxx    DEPOSIT   -    Confirmed 9196f7b0c757111504d25a6f69bccf...

!!!! MISSING PAYOUT FOR THIS TIME PERIOD  !!!!

2014-07-03 04:11:04    0.xxxxxxxx BTC   0.xxxxxxxx    DEPOSIT   -    Confirmed 90f1a28d55fe5379f7f533b79b458f...

2014-07-03 03:11:02    0.xxxxxxxx BTC   0.xxxxxxxx    DEPOSIT   -    Confirmed 03d1af16406b755b9abb79290df0d3...

2014-07-03 02:10:58    0.xxxxxxxx BTC   0.xxxxxxxx    DEPOSIT   -    Confirmed a64c1f1542ffc9f72cc2cefefc3068...

2014-07-03 01:10:59    0.xxxxxxxx BTC   0.xxxxxxxx    DEPOSIT   -    Confirmed c08381e45136608110343cf26bc7ce...

2014-07-03 00:18:55    0.xxxxxxxx BTC   0.xxxxxxxx    DEPOSIT   -    Confirmed d5294cbdfcdc35d565013f700a0e51...

[cloudha$hers]

No sorry it does not work like that. You get 24 payouts per day, that is in a week you get 7*24 payouts.
But the exact payout time can vary.

[sillywhim]

Max.B

I re-read your post and I do understand the main point(s) you're making.

But consider:

ASICS are coming in a big big way to scrypt mining, more so than currently (alpha, knc, etc.) The miner "masses" are getting into scyrpt in a huge way very soon.

If bitcoin mining history tells us anything, it is that with this tidal wave of new scrypt miners come massive increases in scrypt difficulty. This is NOT TIED IN ANY SANE WAY to the value of litecoin vs fiat, or the value of litecoin vs bitcoin.

Counter-intuitively, this vast influx of new asic scrypt miners will not mean a massive increase of litecoin supply as like bitcoin, the generation of litecoin is tightly controlled. The real race is of course what miner gets to have a piece of the limited supply. As an aside, in the early days at one of the mining pools, my miners (80 GH/sec at the time) found ten bitcoin blocks. TEN. I highly doubt my current 10 TH/sec pool of miners will find ANY in their lifetime.

Just because there are tons of new miners racing each other for this limited supply of litecoins, why would the value of litecoins go up in fiat value? It didn't for bitcoin as I pointed out in an earlier post.

Mining any virtual coin is a wicked game indeed.