The Ultimatum Game

[tomcollins]

He's a moron in not acting in his own rational self-interest. He denied himself the prize money by making an irrational offer. The optimal solution would be giving me an actual incentive to say yes. You know, by me actually gaining $100 or so.

You've just plucked out another arbitrary figure.

So by your standards if I offer $99.99 I'm a moron, but if I offer $100.01 I'm a nice guy.

It's not arbitrary. It's very relevant if I am involved in the game. The number is what I would consider value. It's subjective by its very nature, a moot point.
 

How is he to know how to value your spitefulness and joy in seeing others you deem morons suffer?  Is he the same moron if he offers me $10 and I accept?  What if you change your break point to $2000, is he a moron if he offers $1999?

[­­­Atlas_]

He's a moron in not acting in his own rational self-interest. He denied himself the prize money by making an irrational offer. The optimal solution would be giving me an actual incentive to say yes. You know, by me actually gaining $100 or so.

You've just plucked out another arbitrary figure.

So by your standards if I offer $99.99 I'm a moron, but if I offer $100.01 I'm a nice guy.

It's not arbitrary. It's very relevant if I am involved in the game. The number is what I would consider value. It's subjective by its very nature, a moot point.
 

How is he to know how to value your spitefulness and joy in seeing others you deem morons suffer?  Is he the same moron if he offers me $10 and I accept?  What if you change your break point to $2000, is he a moron if he offers $1999?

How is he to know how to value your spitefulness and joy in seeing others you deem morons suffer?

Libelous.

Is he the same moron if he offers me $10 and I accept?

A fortunate moron.

What if you change your break point to $2000, is he a moron if he offers $1999?

No, he's a moron if he makes an irrational offer that grants a high possibility of me not accepting the offer. Let's not be pedantic with the numbers.

[tomcollins]

He's a moron in not acting in his own rational self-interest. He denied himself the prize money by making an irrational offer. The optimal solution would be giving me an actual incentive to say yes. You know, by me actually gaining $100 or so.

You've just plucked out another arbitrary figure.

So by your standards if I offer $99.99 I'm a moron, but if I offer $100.01 I'm a nice guy.

It's not arbitrary. It's very relevant if I am involved in the game. The number is what I would consider value. It's subjective by its very nature, a moot point.
 

How is he to know how to value your spitefulness and joy in seeing others you deem morons suffer?  Is he the same moron if he offers me $10 and I accept?  What if you change your break point to $2000, is he a moron if he offers $1999?

How is he to know how to value your spitefulness and joy in seeing others you deem morons suffer?

Libelous.

Is he the same moron if he offers me $10 and I accept?

A fortunate moron.

What if you change your break point to $2000, is he a moron if he offers $1999?

No, he's a moron if he makes an irrational offer that grants a high possibility of me not accepting the offer. Let's not be pedantic with the numbers.

So how do you define an irrational offer?  If he's going against someone who he is virtually certain will reject anything less than $3000, and he offers $2500, is he a moron?  Assume he values $2000 more than spite.

[­­­Atlas_]

He's a moron in not acting in his own rational self-interest. He denied himself the prize money by making an irrational offer. The optimal solution would be giving me an actual incentive to say yes. You know, by me actually gaining $100 or so.

You've just plucked out another arbitrary figure.

So by your standards if I offer $99.99 I'm a moron, but if I offer $100.01 I'm a nice guy.

It's not arbitrary. It's very relevant if I am involved in the game. The number is what I would consider value. It's subjective by its very nature, a moot point.
 

How is he to know how to value your spitefulness and joy in seeing others you deem morons suffer?  Is he the same moron if he offers me $10 and I accept?  What if you change your break point to $2000, is he a moron if he offers $1999?

How is he to know how to value your spitefulness and joy in seeing others you deem morons suffer?

Libelous.

Is he the same moron if he offers me $10 and I accept?

A fortunate moron.

What if you change your break point to $2000, is he a moron if he offers $1999?

No, he's a moron if he makes an irrational offer that grants a high possibility of me not accepting the offer. Let's not be pedantic with the numbers.

So how do you define an irrational offer?  If he's going against someone who he is virtually certain will reject anything less than $3000, and he offers $2500, is he a moron?  Assume he values $2000 more than spite.

So how do you define an irrational offer?

One that a common man is likely to refuse.

If he's going against someone who he is virtually certain will reject anything less than $3000, and he offers $2500, is he a moron?

Yes.

[AbeSkray]

He's a moron in not acting in his own rational self-interest. He denied himself the prize money by making an irrational offer.

Your definitions of "rational" and "self-interest" are questionable.

If someone was offered $10 for doing nothing, it would be irrational and not in his own interest to reject the offer (unless accepting the money would somehow be a burden on him).

Taking $10 is a direct benefit to you -- it's greedy, in a sense. Rejecting $10 is only in your self-interest if the pleasure you'd gain from another's suffering is of more value than $10... which would classify you as a sadomasochist ...not that there's anything wrong with that.

I think it's doubtful that you're a sadomasochist. More likely, you feel the need to teach a stranger a lesson for dealing you a perceived injustice. I think that's a natural response, but ultimately futile. In my experience, trying to teach a faceless stranger a lesson is like pissing into the wind.

[tomcollins]

Atlas-

If he is 40% sure someone will reject $100, but is 100% sure someone will accept $2500, what should he offer (assuming he only does those two choices)?  Is he a moron for either offer?

[­­­Atlas_]

He's a moron in not acting in his own rational self-interest. He denied himself the prize money by making an irrational offer.

Your definitions of "rational" and "self-interest" are questionable.

If someone was offered $10 for doing nothing, it would be irrational and not in his own interest to reject the offer (unless accepting the money would somehow be a burden on him).

Taking $10 is a direct benefit to you -- it's greedy, in a sense. Rejecting $10 is only in your self-interest if the pleasure you'd gain from another's suffering is of more value than $10... which would classify you as a sadomasochist ...not that there's anything wrong with that.

I think it's doubtful that you're a sadomasochist. More likely, you feel the need to teach a stranger a lesson for dealing you a perceived injustice. I think that's a natural response, but ultimately futile. In my experience, trying to teach a faceless stranger a lesson is like pissing into the wind.

You're looking at it in absolutes. I gain nothing from $10 in my eyes so I rather piss on the guys insulting and moronic offer.

[­­­Atlas_]

Atlas-

If he is 40% sure someone will reject $100, but is 100% sure someone will accept $2500, what should he offer (assuming he only does those two choices)?  Is he a moron for either offer?

If the 40% is based on sound logic, it's a gamble that may or may not be worth the extra $2400. It all really depends on how much $2500 means to him. If it's just a game, sure, gamble. If not and your fate could depend on it, it could possibly be moronic.

[tomcollins]

He's a moron in not acting in his own rational self-interest. He denied himself the prize money by making an irrational offer.

Your definitions of "rational" and "self-interest" are questionable.

If someone was offered $10 for doing nothing, it would be irrational and not in his own interest to reject the offer (unless accepting the money would somehow be a burden on him).

Taking $10 is a direct benefit to you -- it's greedy, in a sense. Rejecting $10 is only in your self-interest if the pleasure you'd gain from another's suffering is of more value than $10... which would classify you as a sadomasochist ...not that there's anything wrong with that.

I think it's doubtful that you're a sadomasochist. More likely, you feel the need to teach a stranger a lesson for dealing you a perceived injustice. I think that's a natural response, but ultimately futile. In my experience, trying to teach a faceless stranger a lesson is like pissing into the wind.

You're looking at it in absolutes. I gain nothing from $10 in my eyes so I rather piss on the guys insulting and moronic offer.

If I shipped you BTC if you gave me an address to send them to, would you give me one?  I seriously will send you 10 BTC if you give me an address to send them to.

[fornit]

please send them to me! too me they also mean nothing i swear!! 

[tomcollins]

please send them to me! too me they also mean nothing i swear!! 

Na, coins are reserved for CITG's. 

[The Script]

tomcollins--you're a jerk.  An asshole, actually.  If we met in real life I would destroy you.  I'm very large and very tall.  But it's all muscle.  So suck it.  And your mom too.

Now, can I have 10 bitcoins?

P.S.  If you think I'm joking there is picture below to prove it.  Asshole.

[tomcollins]

tomcollins--you're a jerk.  An asshole, actually.  If we met in real life I would destroy you.  I'm very large and very tall.  But it's all muscle.  So suck it.  And your mom too.

Now, can I have 10 bitcoins?

P.S.  If you think I'm joking there is picture below to prove it.  Asshole.

LOL.  Good stuff man.

[NghtRppr]

So you are saying that you would turn down free money to spite someone if the price was low enough or the situation was just right?

Anyone would, under the right circumstances. Anyone that denies that is lying.

[tomcollins]

Looks like I shouldn't have been so hard on chimps:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/318/5847/107.abstract

They are actually smart enough to play the game right.

[NghtRppr]

Looks like I shouldn't have been so hard on chimps:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/318/5847/107.abstract

They are actually smart enough to play the game right.

Likewise, you're not actually smart enough to understand that, for some people, revenge/spite has a nonzero utility.

Some of us are just in it for the lulz.

[Alex Beckenham]

So how do you define an irrational offer?
One that a common man is likely to refuse.

I think the 'common man' is a moron.

They'll sign their name without reading the fine print.
They'll post details of their assets, their street address and holidays plans to Facebook.
And if they're getting a raw deal on something, they'd rather everyone else did too.

[tomcollins]

Looks like I shouldn't have been so hard on chimps:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/318/5847/107.abstract

They are actually smart enough to play the game right.

Likewise, you're not actually smart enough to understand that, for some people, revenge/spite has a nonzero utility.

Some of us are just in it for the lulz.

Since I've stated that over and over, I did understand that spite has a non-zero utility for some people.  I made the mistake of thinking they were apes.  But even apes aren't this dumb.

[The Script]

Looks like I shouldn't have been so hard on chimps:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/318/5847/107.abstract

They are actually smart enough to play the game right.

Likewise, you're not actually smart enough to understand that, for some people, revenge/spite has a nonzero utility.

Some of us are just in it for the lulz.

Dude, I agree with almost everything I've seen you write on this forum, but you have a really harsh way of displaying your opinions.  Not everyone who disagrees with you is dumb.  Tomcollins has proven he is intelligent and capable of putting forth some good arguments.  Just sayin

[BitterTea]

Looks like I shouldn't have been so hard on chimps:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/318/5847/107.abstract

They are actually smart enough to play the game right.

Likewise, you're not actually smart enough to understand that, for some people, revenge/spite has a nonzero utility.

Some of us are just in it for the lulz.

Dude, I agree with almost everything I've seen you write on this forum, but you have a really harsh way of displaying your opinions.  Not everyone who disagrees with you is dumb.  Tomcollins has proven he is intelligent and capable of putting forth some good arguments.  Just sayin

I think the only reason that b2c made that dig was because tom implied that those who didn't play the game his way were not smart. (see bold above)