XBTec Announce. New ASIC manufacturer.

[bitcoiner49er]

How are these people making money?  Even with free electricity this unit will not make more than 2 bitcoins.  Yet they are charging over 6 bitcoins.  Why do people spend so much to lose so much?

I suspect a lot of manufactures are going to go bust.  I suspect that BFL and KNC already have.

By "make" I hope you mean "profit". Otherwise your BTC calculator is WAAAAY over aggressive. I would forecast this machine mining 5 BTC by year's end.

Which is really sad...

[sgravina]

How are these people making money?  Even with free electricity this unit will not make more than 2 bitcoins.  Yet they are charging over 6 bitcoins.  Why do people spend so much to lose so much?

I suspect a lot of manufactures are going to go bust.  I suspect that BFL and KNC already have.

By "make" I hope you mean "profit". Otherwise your BTC calculator is WAAAAY over aggressive. I would forecast this machine mining 5 BTC by year's end.

Which is really sad...

I used BicoinWisdom.  Hashrate = 2000, Difficulty Increent = 20%, Electricity Price = 0, Hardware price = 0, start date = 2014-07-31.  This is very conservative.  The machine makes 2.5 bitcoins by year end and only 2.77 bitcoins ever.

There is way too much competition for anyone who has to pay for their hardware or electricity.

[dropt]

There is way too much competition for anyone who has to pay for their hardware or electricity.

If that were true then the hashrate wouldn't be increasing at its current rate. 

[conv3rsion]

There is way too much competition for anyone who has to pay for their hardware or electricity.

If that were true then the hashrate wouldn't be increasing at its current rate.  

Wrong, existing hardware which is not profitable is still coming online to limit its loss and will continue to do so for months, which in turn will increase the hashrate.

The truth is mining is not profitable for the non industrial miner, and just wont be any more, ever, unless mining equipment is sold in fiat and can generate a BTC positive return after factoring in difficulty increases.

[dogie]

There is way too much competition for anyone who has to pay for their hardware or electricity.

If that were true then the hashrate wouldn't be increasing at its current rate. 

Wrong, existing hardware which is not profitable is still coming online to limit its loss and will continue to do so for months, which in turn will increase the hashrate.

The truth is mining is not profitable for the non industrial miner, and just wont be any more, ever, unless mining equipment is sold in fiat and can generate a BTC positive return after factoring in difficulty increases.

Costs are in fiat, revenues are in btc, the market will sort it out in the middle. This is getting OT though, lets get back on track.

[RoadStress]

I don't think we will see any proof of this product yet. Have taken time to measure sound, power consumption, but not to take a picture of miner?

I should be seeing a unit near the end of next week or the start of the next. Everything will get tested of course!

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

[dropt]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

[wpgdeez]

Lots of chips at low voltage the same way that Bitmain can get such efficiency out of their S2.

[RoadStress]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

[dropt]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

So their competition managed to hit 0.55-0.68W/GH and you don't see how these guys can hit 0.7W/GH?  I don't follow you.  If these guys can get 0.55W/GH at the chip level and have a total DC/DC efficiency of ~80%, that's 0.66W/GH. 

[RoadStress]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

So their competition managed to hit 0.55-0.68W/GH and you don't see how these guys can hit 0.7W/GH?  I don't follow you.  If these guys can get 0.55W/GH at the chip level and have a total DC/DC efficiency of ~80%, that's 0.66W/GH. 

Add AC/DC loss for another 10%. Guess we will see soon enough (July)

[opieum2]

Actually next week....Dogie is getting a sample he mentioned in the first page. So he will do one of his fantabulous reviews and teardowns on the hardware. That's a good start to validating the claims.

[jimmothy]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

I remember a few days ago your comments about how below $2/gh is impossible especially for AM.

How many times will AM have to blow your mind before you become a fan?

[RoadStress]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

I remember a few days ago your comments about how below $2/gh is impossible especially for AM.

How many times will AM have to blow your mind before you become a fan?

Dump selling miners with last year performance isn't blowing my mind yet.

How are you enjoying your today's dividends?

[freedomno1]

Considering Friedcat is vouching for this company I will have to start looking seriously at these units as well
Still waiting on his AM update but nice to know where some chips are going

[jimmothy]

Dump selling miners with last year performance isn't blowing my mind yet.

Not sure what dump selling but I don't know what you're on about performance. 0.7w/gh at the wall is not last years performance.

And I don't think you were nearly as unenthusiastic when spondoolies released the same exact specs 2 months ago for 3 times the price. They are just as late to the game as asicminer.

Difference being AM/empire actually wants to compete with the market in terms of cost where as spondoolies is lagging behind.

[Biffa]

Dump selling miners with last year performance isn't blowing my mind yet.

Not sure what dump selling but I don't know what you're on about performance. 0.7w/gh at the wall is not last years performance.

Uhm Rockminers are 1.5W/Gh 

http://shop.rockminer.com/goods.php?id=33


Attribute
[Hash rate]   32~35Ghash/s
[Power consumption]   50W
[PSU]   12V,5A
[Size]   100*100*100
[Weight]   1KG

[jimmothy]

Dump selling miners with last year performance isn't blowing my mind yet.

Not sure what dump selling but I don't know what you're on about performance. 0.7w/gh at the wall is not last years performance.

Uhm Rockminers are 1.5W/Gh  

http://shop.rockminer.com/goods.php?id=33


Attribute
[Hash rate]   32~35Ghash/s
[Power consumption]   50W
[PSU]   12V,5A
[Size]   100*100*100
[Weight]   1KG

Who said anything about rockminer?  This is Xbtec we're talking about.

[Biffa]

a) Same chips
b) you were both using them as a benchmark for both the chips and these potential miners

[jimmothy]

a) Same chips
b) you were both using them as a benchmark for both the chips and these potential miners

We already know that AM chips are capable of at least 1w/gh(see hashratio/btcgarden).

It's not fair to use the least efficient implementation of AM chips as a benchmark.

Of course those little rockminer machines are inefficient with only 4 chips/device. The fan alone probably consumes around 20% of the electricity.