XBTec Announce. New ASIC manufacturer.

[XBTec]

Hey everyone.
We are new bitcoin ASIC manufacturer. XBTec Team was founded in 2012 and specializes in designing and manufacturing Bitcoin mining hardware. Headquarter located in Hong Kong. Engineering team based in Shenzhen,China and Moscow,Russia.

Pacific miner in stock. ~30 units available for sale. Today price 1750$

Details of Pacific V3

1. Hasrate ~3.2 Th/s
2. Power consumption ~2500W
3. Cooling:  6 fans.
4. Dimensions: 4U rack mountable case

Warranty: for PSU is 1year, for PCB boards 1 month.

Any questions, please pm, or call directly +86-13244886411
Personal meeting in Shenzhen and Shanghai is welcomed.








Company name: MICRO ASIA COMPANY LIMITED
Company Address: ROOM 1103, HANG SENG MONGKOK BUILDING, 677 NATHAN ROAD,
MONGKOK, KOWLOON HONGKONG

Mobile: +86-13244886411 China
http://www.xbtec.io
Email: info[at]xbtec.io

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[IamCANADIAN013]

Hey everyone.
We are new bitcoin ASIC manufacturer. XBTec Team was founded in 2012 and specializes in designing and manufacturing Bitcoin mining hardware. Headquarter located in Hong Kong. Engineering team based in Shenzhen,China and Moscow,Russia.
And now, we are proud to announce new bitcoin ASIC miner XBTec Pacific 2000.

Details of Pacific 2000

1. Hasrate 2Th/s
2. Power supply 1600W included. Power consumption about 0,75 Watt per Gh
3. Branded 18cm cooling fans, noise level no more than 20db per device.
4. Properties 50x35x20cm

We aim to make fastest pay-back-period, so we estimate to give our customers lowest price on market.
Prices coming soon.
Moreover, we install in July cloud mining data-center with approximate hashrate 15Ph/s.

Any questions, please post here, pm, or call directly to our phone.
We are real company, if anyone wants some proofs - personal meeting in Shenzhen is welcomed.
Detailed photos of ASICs and data-center coming these few days.

Company name: MICRO ASIA COMPANY LIMITED
Company Address: ROOM 1103, HANG SENG MONGKOK BUILDING, 677 NATHAN ROAD,
MONGKOK, KOWLOON HONGKONG

Mobile: +86-13244886411 China
http://www.xbtec.io

Only $3,400.00?

Can we see an actual picture of one?  Better yet, do you have a video of one hashing currently to prove your claims?

[notlist3d]

Hey everyone.
We are new bitcoin ASIC manufacturer. XBTec Team was founded in 2012 and specializes in designing and manufacturing Bitcoin mining hardware. Headquarter located in Hong Kong. Engineering team based in Shenzhen,China and Moscow,Russia.
And now, we are proud to announce new bitcoin ASIC miner XBTec Pacific 2000.

Details of Pacific 2000

1. Hasrate 2Th/s
2. Power supply 1600W included. Power consumption about 0,75 Watt per Gh
3. Branded 18cm cooling fans, noise level no more than 20db per device.
4. Properties 50x35x20cm

We aim to make fastest pay-back-period, so we estimate to give our customers lowest price on market.
Prices coming soon.
Moreover, we install in July cloud mining data-center with approximate hashrate 15Ph/s.

Any questions, please post here, pm, or call directly to our phone.
We are real company, if anyone wants some proofs - personal meeting in Shenzhen is welcomed.
Detailed photos of ASICs and data-center coming these few days.

Company name: MICRO ASIA COMPANY LIMITED
Company Address: ROOM 1103, HANG SENG MONGKOK BUILDING, 677 NATHAN ROAD,
MONGKOK, KOWLOON HONGKONG

Mobile: +86-13244886411 China
http://www.xbtec.io

Only $3,400.00?

Can we see an actual picture of one?  Better yet, do you have a video of one hashing currently to prove your claims?

I don't think we will see any proof of this product yet. Have taken time to measure sound, power consumption, but not to take a picture of miner?

[IamCANADIAN013]

Hey everyone.
We are new bitcoin ASIC manufacturer. XBTec Team was founded in 2012 and specializes in designing and manufacturing Bitcoin mining hardware. Headquarter located in Hong Kong. Engineering team based in Shenzhen,China and Moscow,Russia.
And now, we are proud to announce new bitcoin ASIC miner XBTec Pacific 2000.

Details of Pacific 2000

1. Hasrate 2Th/s
2. Power supply 1600W included. Power consumption about 0,75 Watt per Gh
3. Branded 18cm cooling fans, noise level no more than 20db per device.
4. Properties 50x35x20cm

We aim to make fastest pay-back-period, so we estimate to give our customers lowest price on market.
Prices coming soon.
Moreover, we install in July cloud mining data-center with approximate hashrate 15Ph/s.

Any questions, please post here, pm, or call directly to our phone.
We are real company, if anyone wants some proofs - personal meeting in Shenzhen is welcomed.
Detailed photos of ASICs and data-center coming these few days.

Company name: MICRO ASIA COMPANY LIMITED
Company Address: ROOM 1103, HANG SENG MONGKOK BUILDING, 677 NATHAN ROAD,
MONGKOK, KOWLOON HONGKONG

Mobile: +86-13244886411 China
http://www.xbtec.io

Only $3,400.00?

Can we see an actual picture of one?  Better yet, do you have a video of one hashing currently to prove your claims?

I don't think we will see any proof of this product yet. Have taken time to measure sound, power consumption, but not to take a picture of miner?

They should be proving proof of product now considering they claim to have them for sale now.  From their FAQ:

Can I buy a miner in person without any advance payment?

– Yes, if we have miners available for sale.

*Edit*

Shit, just noticed the big "if" in the answer.

[allcoinminer]

Hey everyone.
We are new bitcoin ASIC manufacturer. XBTec Team was founded in 2012 and specializes in designing and manufacturing Bitcoin mining hardware. Headquarter located in Hong Kong. Engineering team based in Shenzhen,China and Moscow,Russia.
And now, we are proud to announce new bitcoin ASIC miner XBTec Pacific 2000.

Details of Pacific 2000

1. Hasrate 2Th/s
2. Power supply 1600W included. Power consumption about 0,75 Watt per Gh
3. Branded 18cm cooling fans, noise level no more than 20db per device.
4. Properties 50x35x20cm

We aim to make fastest pay-back-period, so we estimate to give our customers lowest price on market.
Prices coming soon.
Moreover, we install in July cloud mining data-center with approximate hashrate 15Ph/s.

Any questions, please post here, pm, or call directly to our phone.
We are real company, if anyone wants some proofs - personal meeting in Shenzhen is welcomed.
Detailed photos of ASICs and data-center coming these few days.

Company name: MICRO ASIA COMPANY LIMITED
Company Address: ROOM 1103, HANG SENG MONGKOK BUILDING, 677 NATHAN ROAD,
MONGKOK, KOWLOON HONGKONG

Mobile: +86-13244886411 China
http://www.xbtec.io

Pre-Order or Ready to Buy?

[RoadStress]

Hey everyone.
We are new bitcoin ASIC manufacturer. XBTec Team was founded in 2012 and specializes in designing and manufacturing Bitcoin mining hardware. Headquarter located in Hong Kong. Engineering team based in Shenzhen,China and Moscow,Russia.
And now, we are proud to announce new bitcoin ASIC miner XBTec Pacific 2000.

What chips are you using?

[XBTec]

1.We will say final price, when we have working device on hands.
2. We understand incredulity among customers.
Too many scam companies gave a reasons do not believe newibes.
So, let us to prove, that we are real company and not a scam.
Any proofs required - let me know.
These days we will upload video.
Below is photo of chips

[whonesta]

"Hello World"  - LOL

Either this is the stupidest scammer EVER! or a REALLY DUMB manufacturer. Might want to do some market research before spending a few 100K to design a miner and have the minimums of info ready.

 

[dogie]

I don't think we will see any proof of this product yet. Have taken time to measure sound, power consumption, but not to take a picture of miner?

I should be seeing a unit near the end of next week or the start of the next. Everything will get tested of course!

[allcoinminer]

1. Approximate price is about 3000$ for July batch. We will say final price these few days
2. We understand incredulity among customers.
Too many scam companies gave a reasons do not believe newibes.
So, let us to prove, that we are real company and not a scam.
Any proofs required - let me know.
These days we will upload video.
Below is photo of chips

[im]http://s006.radikal.ru/i214/1405/20/f409b48cad6b.jpg[/img]

What's the current status of production?

[RoadStress]

1. Approximate price is about 3000$ for July batch. We will say final price these few days
2. We understand incredulity among customers.
Too many scam companies gave a reasons do not believe newibes.
So, let us to prove, that we are real company and not a scam.
Any proofs required - let me know.
These days we will upload video.
Below is photo of chips

July when? Early? Mid?

So another AM gen3 miner.

[friedcat]

1. Approximate price is about 3000$ for July batch. We will say final price these few days
2. We understand incredulity among customers.
Too many scam companies gave a reasons do not believe newibes.
So, let us to prove, that we are real company and not a scam.
Any proofs required - let me know.
These days we will upload video.
Below is photo of chips

We confirm that XBTec indeed ordered and possessed a batch of our BE200 8mmx8mm chips.

[dogie]

If those specs are right, this is also the most efficient implementation of gen3 AM chips to date.

[ChuckBuck]

Interesting, if FC vouches for these guys, will definitely keep an eye out for this manufacturer in July.

So far AM Gen 3 offerings have been pretty lackluster(the 800 GH/s miner, R-Box, and the BTC Garden blade).  Hopefully this miner will implement FC's chips proper and efficient like they were touted to be.

[Omikifuse]

The price is really cheap compare to rivals. Is this legit?

[Anotheranonlol]

"Hello World"  - LOL

Either this is the stupidest scammer EVER! or a REALLY DUMB manufacturer. Might want to do some market research before spending a few 100K to design a miner and have the minimums of info ready.

 

The chips delivered; a tracking info

According to the HK ICRIS company have incorporation not recently and director report check out.

1. Approximate price is about 3000$ for July batch. We will say final price these few days
2. We understand incredulity among customers.
Too many scam companies gave a reasons do not believe newibes.
So, let us to prove, that we are real company and not a scam.
Any proofs required - let me know.
These days we will upload video.
Below is photo of chips

July when? Early? Mid?

So another AM gen3 miner.

From information above, (likely subject to change) there is one batch close, multiple batches with differing price, late June, late July. (2 weeks)

[romerun]

Geez, 2Th/s / 15Ph/s sure will light up a decent fire on mining arms race

[dropt]

Geez, 2Th/s / 15Ph/s sure will light up a decent fire on mining arms race

We're going to see a lot of this.  AM has 100PH in the pipeline over the next 2.5 months.

[ChuckBuck]

Geez, 2Th/s / 15Ph/s sure will light up a decent fire on mining arms race

We're going to see a lot of this.  AM has 100PH in the pipeline over the next 2.5 months.

Wow, so much for the lower difficulty jumps of the last few months.  Going to see a huge spike soon.

[sgravina]

How are these people making money?  Even with free electricity this unit will not make more than 2 bitcoins.  Yet they are charging over 6 bitcoins.  Why do people spend so much to lose so much?

I suspect a lot of manufactures are going to go bust.  I suspect that BFL and KNC already have.

[bitcoiner49er]

How are these people making money?  Even with free electricity this unit will not make more than 2 bitcoins.  Yet they are charging over 6 bitcoins.  Why do people spend so much to lose so much?

I suspect a lot of manufactures are going to go bust.  I suspect that BFL and KNC already have.

By "make" I hope you mean "profit". Otherwise your BTC calculator is WAAAAY over aggressive. I would forecast this machine mining 5 BTC by year's end.

Which is really sad...

[sgravina]

How are these people making money?  Even with free electricity this unit will not make more than 2 bitcoins.  Yet they are charging over 6 bitcoins.  Why do people spend so much to lose so much?

I suspect a lot of manufactures are going to go bust.  I suspect that BFL and KNC already have.

By "make" I hope you mean "profit". Otherwise your BTC calculator is WAAAAY over aggressive. I would forecast this machine mining 5 BTC by year's end.

Which is really sad...

I used BicoinWisdom.  Hashrate = 2000, Difficulty Increent = 20%, Electricity Price = 0, Hardware price = 0, start date = 2014-07-31.  This is very conservative.  The machine makes 2.5 bitcoins by year end and only 2.77 bitcoins ever.

There is way too much competition for anyone who has to pay for their hardware or electricity.

[dropt]

There is way too much competition for anyone who has to pay for their hardware or electricity.

If that were true then the hashrate wouldn't be increasing at its current rate. 

[conv3rsion]

There is way too much competition for anyone who has to pay for their hardware or electricity.

If that were true then the hashrate wouldn't be increasing at its current rate.  

Wrong, existing hardware which is not profitable is still coming online to limit its loss and will continue to do so for months, which in turn will increase the hashrate.

The truth is mining is not profitable for the non industrial miner, and just wont be any more, ever, unless mining equipment is sold in fiat and can generate a BTC positive return after factoring in difficulty increases.

[dogie]

There is way too much competition for anyone who has to pay for their hardware or electricity.

If that were true then the hashrate wouldn't be increasing at its current rate. 

Wrong, existing hardware which is not profitable is still coming online to limit its loss and will continue to do so for months, which in turn will increase the hashrate.

The truth is mining is not profitable for the non industrial miner, and just wont be any more, ever, unless mining equipment is sold in fiat and can generate a BTC positive return after factoring in difficulty increases.

Costs are in fiat, revenues are in btc, the market will sort it out in the middle. This is getting OT though, lets get back on track.

[RoadStress]

I don't think we will see any proof of this product yet. Have taken time to measure sound, power consumption, but not to take a picture of miner?

I should be seeing a unit near the end of next week or the start of the next. Everything will get tested of course!

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

[dropt]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

[wpgdeez]

Lots of chips at low voltage the same way that Bitmain can get such efficiency out of their S2.

[RoadStress]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

[dropt]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

So their competition managed to hit 0.55-0.68W/GH and you don't see how these guys can hit 0.7W/GH?  I don't follow you.  If these guys can get 0.55W/GH at the chip level and have a total DC/DC efficiency of ~80%, that's 0.66W/GH. 

[RoadStress]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

So their competition managed to hit 0.55-0.68W/GH and you don't see how these guys can hit 0.7W/GH?  I don't follow you.  If these guys can get 0.55W/GH at the chip level and have a total DC/DC efficiency of ~80%, that's 0.66W/GH. 

Add AC/DC loss for another 10%. Guess we will see soon enough (July)

[opieum2]

Actually next week....Dogie is getting a sample he mentioned in the first page. So he will do one of his fantabulous reviews and teardowns on the hardware. That's a good start to validating the claims.

[jimmothy]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

I remember a few days ago your comments about how below $2/gh is impossible especially for AM.

How many times will AM have to blow your mind before you become a fan?

[RoadStress]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

I remember a few days ago your comments about how below $2/gh is impossible especially for AM.

How many times will AM have to blow your mind before you become a fan?

Dump selling miners with last year performance isn't blowing my mind yet.

How are you enjoying your today's dividends?

[freedomno1]

Considering Friedcat is vouching for this company I will have to start looking seriously at these units as well
Still waiting on his AM update but nice to know where some chips are going

[jimmothy]

Dump selling miners with last year performance isn't blowing my mind yet.

Not sure what dump selling but I don't know what you're on about performance. 0.7w/gh at the wall is not last years performance.

And I don't think you were nearly as unenthusiastic when spondoolies released the same exact specs 2 months ago for 3 times the price. They are just as late to the game as asicminer.

Difference being AM/empire actually wants to compete with the market in terms of cost where as spondoolies is lagging behind.

[Biffa]

Dump selling miners with last year performance isn't blowing my mind yet.

Not sure what dump selling but I don't know what you're on about performance. 0.7w/gh at the wall is not last years performance.

Uhm Rockminers are 1.5W/Gh 

http://shop.rockminer.com/goods.php?id=33


Attribute
[Hash rate]   32~35Ghash/s
[Power consumption]   50W
[PSU]   12V,5A
[Size]   100*100*100
[Weight]   1KG

[jimmothy]

Dump selling miners with last year performance isn't blowing my mind yet.

Not sure what dump selling but I don't know what you're on about performance. 0.7w/gh at the wall is not last years performance.

Uhm Rockminers are 1.5W/Gh  

http://shop.rockminer.com/goods.php?id=33


Attribute
[Hash rate]   32~35Ghash/s
[Power consumption]   50W
[PSU]   12V,5A
[Size]   100*100*100
[Weight]   1KG

Who said anything about rockminer?  This is Xbtec we're talking about.

[Biffa]

a) Same chips
b) you were both using them as a benchmark for both the chips and these potential miners

[jimmothy]

a) Same chips
b) you were both using them as a benchmark for both the chips and these potential miners

We already know that AM chips are capable of at least 1w/gh(see hashratio/btcgarden).

It's not fair to use the least efficient implementation of AM chips as a benchmark.

Of course those little rockminer machines are inefficient with only 4 chips/device. The fan alone probably consumes around 20% of the electricity.

[dogie]

Actually next week....Dogie is getting a sample he mentioned in the first page. So he will do one of his fantabulous reviews and teardowns on the hardware. That's a good start to validating the claims.

Probably about 10-13 days before lands at my door. This one will go up ASAP on arrival, I'm on the lookout.

[minerpumpkin]

Actually next week....Dogie is getting a sample he mentioned in the first page. So he will do one of his fantabulous reviews and teardowns on the hardware. That's a good start to validating the claims.

Probably about 10-13 days before lands at my door. This one will go up ASAP on arrival, I'm on the lookout.

Don't bite the postman 

[tzortz]

Lets see , but I bet they will be around at +1.1w/ghs at the wall.

[jimmothy]

Lets see , but I bet they will be around at +1.1w/ghs at the wall.

How much are you willing to bet?

[IamCANADIAN013]

Actually next week....Dogie is getting a sample he mentioned in the first page. So he will do one of his fantabulous reviews and teardowns on the hardware. That's a good start to validating the claims.

If Dogie says the miner works as they claim, that's good enough for me.  My only concern at that point would be that it was a one off miner and the others they make won't work at the same efficiently as the one that they sent to Dogie.

[tzortz]

Lets see , but I bet they will be around at +1.1w/ghs at the wall.

How much are you willing to bet?

The same you bet against Spondoolies.

Are you in?

[jimmothy]

Lets see , but I bet they will be around at +1.1w/ghs at the wall.

How much are you willing to bet?

The same you bet against Spondoolies.

Are you in?

0.1 btc to seansoutpost?

1.1+w/gh at the wall and you win. Anything better than that and I win.

Deal?

[tzortz]

Dump selling miners with last year performance isn't blowing my mind yet.

Not sure what dump selling but I don't know what you're on about performance. 0.7w/gh at the wall is not last years performance.

And I don't think you were nearly as unenthusiastic when spondoolies released the same exact specs 2 months ago for 3 times the price. They are just as late to the game as asicminer.

Difference being AM/empire actually wants to compete with the market in terms of cost where as spondoolies is lagging behind.

This is not fair.

You said 0.7w , I said 1.1w.
Lets agree in the middle, means 0.9w/Ghs at the wall.

Anything better than that and YOU win.

Agree?

[tzortz]

I'm in.

[Zelek Uther]

Dump selling miners with last year performance isn't blowing my mind yet.

Not sure what dump selling but I don't know what you're on about performance. 0.7w/gh at the wall is not last years performance.

And I don't think you were nearly as unenthusiastic when spondoolies released the same exact specs 2 months ago for 3 times the price. They are just as late to the game as asicminer.

Difference being AM/empire actually wants to compete with the market in terms of cost where as spondoolies is lagging behind.

This is not fair.

You said 0.7w , I said 1.1w.
Lets agree in the middle, means 0.9w/Ghs at the wall.

Anything better than that and YOU win.

Agree?

.7 or .8 jim wins

.1 or 1.1 tzortz wins

.9 break even - or both donate .1 to seans outpost

If you don't want to wager with bitbet, I can escrow for free.

I think you meant:
1.0 or 1.1 tzortz wins

Basically:
< 0.9 J/GH jimmothy wins
>= 1.0 J/GH tzortz wins
>= 0.9 and < 1.0 "break even", whatever that means. Maybe it's "close enough" and no-one wins or loses.

[tzortz]

But Jim insisted on the 0.7j/gh scenario.

He did not say 0.9j/gh.

[jimmothy]

This is not fair.

You said 0.7w , I said 1.1w.
Lets agree in the middle, means 0.9w/Ghs at the wall.

Anything better than that and YOU win.

Agree?

If it's not fair then you shouldn't have said:

Lets see , but I bet they will be around at +1.1w/ghs at the wall.

I never claimed they would hit 0.7w/gh, only that if they do it will not be "last years performance".

Ill cut you some slack and change the bet to 1+w/gh and you win because I think 0.9w/gh is pretty likely.

Not really willing to bet much based on written claims from a company I know nothing about, however I think AM chips are more than capable of going below 1w/gh.

[Zelek Uther]

But Jim insisted on the 0.7j/gh scenario.

He did not say 0.9j/gh.

I'm just saying, make the bet simple and measurable.

E.g.
< 0.8 J/GH jimmothy wins
>= 0.8 J/GH tzortz wins

... or some variation you are both happy with.

[dogie]

.7 or .8 jim wins

1 or 1.1 tzortz wins

.9 break even - or both donate .1 to seans outpost

If you don't want to wager with bitbet, I can escrow for free.

I can escrow this if you want.

If Dogie says the miner works as they claim, that's good enough for me.  My only concern at that point would be that it was a one off miner and the others they make won't work at the same efficiently as the one that they sent to Dogie.

I would be more impressed if they managed to fake it or bin a single unit 35% more power efficient than normal. Its either going to be as they say, or it won't!

[tzortz]

Deal with escrow.

Are you in Jim?

I can increase the bet to 0.5BTC if you want too.

[jimmothy]

Deal with escrow.

Are you in Jim?

I can increase the bet to 0.5BTC if you want too.

No need for escrow.

And no I don't have that much to gamble.

Deal if you agree to 1+w/gh = you win. Less than that and I win.

[dogie]

.7 or .8 jim wins

1 or 1.1 tzortz wins

.9 break even - or both donate .1 to seans outpost

If you don't want to wager with bitbet, I can escrow for free.

I can escrow this if you want.

I'm sorry, is there something wrong with my original offer of doing it?   

No, just that I would be the person doing the measuring Anyway, we're getting OT again. Hardware.

[tzortz]

Deal with escrow.

Are you in Jim?

I can increase the bet to 0.5BTC if you want too.

No need for escrow.

And no I don't have that much to gamble.

Deal if you agree to 1+w/gh = you win. Less than that and I win.

Although is far from your 0.7w statement, I am in for the 1w/Ghs.

Anything better you win.

[IamCANADIAN013]

.7 or .8 jim wins

1 or 1.1 tzortz wins

.9 break even - or both donate .1 to seans outpost

If you don't want to wager with bitbet, I can escrow for free.

I can escrow this if you want.

If Dogie says the miner works as they claim, that's good enough for me.  My only concern at that point would be that it was a one off miner and the others they make won't work at the same efficiently as the one that they sent to Dogie.

I would be more impressed if they managed to fake it or bin a single unit 35% more power efficient than normal. Its either going to be as they say, or it won't!

K, sweet. Thanks for the clarification.  I don't know a hell of a lot about these things and with all the scams I've seen, I'm leery when I see a new company make claims on their hardware.

I'm in the market to upgrade, and this one does sound intriguing.   

[Bicknellski]

.7 or .8 jim wins

1 or 1.1 tzortz wins

.9 break even - or both donate .1 to seans outpost

If you don't want to wager with bitbet, I can escrow for free.

I can escrow this if you want.

If Dogie says the miner works as they claim, that's good enough for me.  My only concern at that point would be that it was a one off miner and the others they make won't work at the same efficiently as the one that they sent to Dogie.

I would be more impressed if they managed to fake it or bin a single unit 35% more power efficient than normal. Its either going to be as they say, or it won't!

K, sweet. Thanks for the clarification.  I don't know a hell of a lot about these things and with all the scams I've seen, I'm leery when I see a new company make claims on their hardware.

I'm in the market to upgrade, and this one does sound intriguing.   

Never buy anything if you're the "first" customer. Do not buy anything unless the company has proven physical/visual units.

Do other customers already have units from this company? Are they happy? etc.

All questions you ask/verify before you even THINK about sending money for a miner.

+1 ... You are better not buying than buying anything "unproven" when there are companies that do ship from stock already.

[RoadStress]

Deal with escrow.

Are you in Jim?

I can increase the bet to 0.5BTC if you want too.

No need for escrow.

And no I don't have that much to gamble.

Deal if you agree to 1+w/gh = you win. Less than that and I win.

tzortz this is a bad bet for you and you shouldn't take it imo. You should go for min 0.9W/GH at least since jimm can't decide which one is better. If these miners will have 0.9X W/GH you will lose the bet even if it will be very far away from the announced 0.75W/GH from the OP. For example a 0.975W/GH would be 30% higher than 0.75W/GH and you will lose the bet and customers will lose the power consumption race.

Not sure what dump selling but I don't know what you're on about performance. 0.7w/gh at the wall is not last years performance.

We already know that AM chips are capable of at least 1w/gh(see hashratio/btcgarden).

1W/GH and above is last year's performance

[Anotheranonlol]

After more thinking I'm starting to believe that the numbers are BS. They have regular AM gen 3 chips. The RockMiner R-BOX is the only live demo of AM gen3 chips and they have 1.1W/GH.  How come that there is no single proof, but lots of statements?

Well, for starters we know that Friedcat came in here and personally vouched that OP purchased AM chips.

That's what I was saying.I don't think that AM gen3 chips can't get those stats. RockMiner achieved 0.55-0.68W/GH. I don't think they can get to 0.7W/GH on the whole miner.

So their competition managed to hit 0.55-0.68W/GH and you don't see how these guys can hit 0.7W/GH?  I don't follow you.  If these guys can get 0.55W/GH at the chip level and have a total DC/DC efficiency of ~80%, that's 0.66W/GH.  

efficiency 87% fans 80w

[IamCANADIAN013]

.7 or .8 jim wins

1 or 1.1 tzortz wins

.9 break even - or both donate .1 to seans outpost

If you don't want to wager with bitbet, I can escrow for free.

I can escrow this if you want.

If Dogie says the miner works as they claim, that's good enough for me.  My only concern at that point would be that it was a one off miner and the others they make won't work at the same efficiently as the one that they sent to Dogie.

I would be more impressed if they managed to fake it or bin a single unit 35% more power efficient than normal. Its either going to be as they say, or it won't!

K, sweet. Thanks for the clarification.  I don't know a hell of a lot about these things and with all the scams I've seen, I'm leery when I see a new company make claims on their hardware.

I'm in the market to upgrade, and this one does sound intriguing.   

Never buy anything if you're the "first" customer. Do not buy anything unless the company has proven physical/visual units.

Do other customers already have units from this company? Are they happy? etc.

All questions you ask/verify before you even THINK about sending money for a miner.

Thanks for the advice.  I'm not about to send them any money without a lot of proof that the unit are as they say they are.  I was close to buying the cointerra miner, glad I didn't.  Definitely gonna keep my eye of this thread though. Hopefully they can deliver their promises.

[XBTec]

Dear users,

Thanks for interest to our topic.
Few information for you below.

Estimated date of output sample devices for test: 10 June
When test sample will output, we will send one device to Dogie for review and upload our video

Estimated date of output first batch: 17th June (very limited quantity)
Estimated date of 2nd batch: 15 July

Final prices will announce soon


During these days we have got a lot of inquiries about pricing and pre-order.
We DO NOT accept money for pre-orders, until we have no working and tested device on hands.


Sincerely, XBTec Team

[Easy2Mine]

I have an appointment with XBTec saturday 31 of june at 14:00 hour in Shenzhen China.
From various source I already have confirmation that they are legit.
I will post pictures of the meeting on Bitcointalk.
The problem with the AM Gen 3 chips is not the chip itself, but the design of the PCB board.
If you have been in China and see how they work here you will understand me.
I already have contact one of their team member, although he can speak Mandarin Chinese, I assume he is Russian from the photo of WeChat.
I hope this Russian and Chinese team can really improve the design of the PCB board and do what they claim it will do in their posts.
Tomorrow I will post a detail post of the meeting.

[Easy2Mine]

By the way, the native language of the team member I have spoken to is Russian.
His English is poor, so do not attack because English is not his native language and something is not clear.

[cderong]

looking forward to pictures and messages.

[romerun]

First time i hear Russian team working on asic rigs in china.

[asiabtc]

i am in Shenzhen city.
if your guys want, i can go to visit them for you.
who can arrange one meeting?
thanks.
Jack.

[Easy2Mine]

I meet them in Coco park, Futian district in Shenzhen.

[XBTec]

i am in Shenzhen city.
if your guys want, i can go to visit them for you.
who can arrange one meeting?
thanks.
Jack.

if you want to meet, just give me a call or text and we will arrange meeting place and time.

[MrTeal]

While I wouldn't bet on the power consumption since I don't think it's at all impossible for them to hit 0.7J/GH, I'd be more than willing to make an escrowed bet that they will not hit 20dB (2x10^-4 Pa) using standard measurement techniques (@1m). I have access to an anechoic chamber to do testing in.  Anyone interested in take that one?

[dogie]

While I wouldn't bet on the power consumption since I don't think it's at all impossible for them to hit 0.7J/GH, I'd be more than willing to make an escrowed bet that they will not hit 20dB (2x10^-4 Pa) using standard measurement techniques (@1m). I have access to an anechoic chamber to do testing in.  Anyone interested in take that one?

Do we really care though? My ambient living room is like 45dba without miners, 65 with.

[MrTeal]

While I wouldn't bet on the power consumption since I don't think it's at all impossible for them to hit 0.7J/GH, I'd be more than willing to make an escrowed bet that they will not hit 20dB (2x10^-4 Pa) using standard measurement techniques (@1m). I have access to an anechoic chamber to do testing in.  Anyone interested in take that one?

Do we really care though? My ambient living room is like 45dba without miners, 65 with.

LOL... Not really. It's just a crazy stat to post, and a great thing to bet on since I'm pretty much 100% sure I'd win. Kind of like the off-brand fans that post that they move 100CFM at 18dBa.

[Easy2Mine]

I meet them today, any special questions you guys want me to ask them?

[tzortz]

Ask them if they are on facebook.

[cderong]

pictures and any news?

[dogie]

pictures and any news?

Patience.

[Biodom]

Deal with escrow.

Are you in Jim?

I can increase the bet to 0.5BTC if you want too.

No need for escrow.

And no I don't have that much to gamble.

Deal if you agree to 1+w/gh = you win. Less than that and I win.

Although is far from your 0.7w statement, I am in for the 1w/Ghs.

Anything better you win.

Are you betting that Russian+Chinese cannot engineer a good product? Ask Bitfury Valery Nebesny and Valery Vavilov who just got $20 mil in venture funding.

[RoadStress]

Deal with escrow.

Are you in Jim?

I can increase the bet to 0.5BTC if you want too.

No need for escrow.

And no I don't have that much to gamble.

Deal if you agree to 1+w/gh = you win. Less than that and I win.

Although is far from your 0.7w statement, I am in for the 1w/Ghs.

Anything better you win.

Are you betting that Russian+Chinese cannot engineer a good product? Ask Bitfury Valery Vavilov who just got $20 mil in venture funding.

There can only be one BitFury!

[hdbuck]

can we have more info about that plz XBTec?



what would you consider a serious customer for the custom 0.5-5Ph mining rig with immersion cooling system?

When is it supposed to ship? 

[Easy2Mine]

On the way to Shenzhen

Today I have a meeting with Jura, one of the members of XBTec.
We will meet at Starbucks in Coco park, Futian district in Shenzhen.
I went to the wrong Starbucks, there are actually 3 Starbucks in that area.
So it was my mistake.


The wrong Starbucks.

From my call log, it shows that Jura is a very puntual person.
Communicating via phone and WeChat, Jura found out at wich Starbucks I went to and move as fast as he can to my location.
His handshake is firm and is not a person who is hiding something.
He looks very young untill I ask his age, he is much older than he looks like.
My assumption was right, he is indeed Russian.
He can speak fluently Mandarin Chinese and he can write and read it too.
We spoke mainly English wich each other.

Jura is the PR and salesperson of XBTec.
He talk to me what kind of chip was used for their miner.
I saw some pictures on his Iphone.
Lots of things are in final stage.
They do not accept money for pre orders, until they have a working and tested device on hands. After tests and getting evidence and proofs that their miner exist and  working stable, they will start to accept pre order payments with clear terms and time of assembling.

I will be one of the first person to get to see the final product. I will then make pictures and post them on bitcointalk.
I didn't ask for a copy of pictures on his phone, I will shoot them myself, I need to touch and see it with my own eyes that
the miner works as it should be.
Dogie will get a miner to do a full review to prove the miner exist and work as it should be.
Why Dogie again? He deseverd it, he already did a lot of excellent reviews, just check his threads if you haven't seen it yet.

We also talk about the design flaws of their competitors.
How they solve noise and other stuff.
I will not put some secrets I have heard on Bitcointalk that can used by their competitors.
This give them a chance to be better than their competitor.
The more competition, the better for us miners.
I will have another meeting with them next week.
This time with more members of XBTec inclusive the engineers.
I will also post about this meeting.

In the meantime, my brother in law get bored, because he don't understand English, so I call it a quit after a nice 2 hour talk with Jura.


On the left, it's me and on the right, it's Jura.

After the meeting with Jura, I went with my brother in law to one of the shopping malls with electronic parts.
Looking for electronic parts.
Shenzhen is really a Walhalla for electronic parts, you can find really everything you need, but the sales persons there are exorbitant trying to sell parts you don't need or not the right parts.
When we almost left the mall without succes, I found what I was looking for and bought the stuff I needed just minutes before the mall closed.

[XBTec]

hdbuck, we will upload additional details for immersion cooling system, when time is come.

Easy2Mine, thanks for your review

[psahx]

You state, you DO NOT ACCEPT PRE-ORDERS, right?

How come, that on your Russian webpage, you are offering pre-orders for ASICMINER Gen3 (2 Thash/second), with option to deliver on/before July 20 for $2800 and on/before June 30 for $3400?

Forgot to mention, you have already sold-out a pre-order for 150 pcs, June 17 delivery.

http://www.xbtec.ru/goods-view/asicminer-gen3-2-thash-second

[XBTec]

You state, you DO NOT ACCEPT PRE-ORDERS, right?

How come, that on your Russian webpage, you are offering pre-orders for ASICMINER Gen3 (2 Thash/second), with option to deliver on/before July 20 for $2800 and on/before June 30 for $3400?

Forgot to mention, you have already sold-out a pre-order for 150 pcs, June 17 delivery.

http://www.xbtec.ru/goods-view/asicminer-gen3-2-thash-second

Russian market is Russian. We have good relations with Russian-speaking community.
Moreover we have few anchor investors, who has invested our team, therefore 150psc has been sold out.
So, for now we do not take pre-orders.
Approximately Friday we have to say final price. We are forecasting to give price for July batch about 2800$, but for now it is just estimate value.

Please, have a read carefully the first post of this topic and wait for a Friday.

Sincerely, XBTec Team

[Biodom]

You state, you DO NOT ACCEPT PRE-ORDERS, right?

How come, that on your Russian webpage, you are offering pre-orders for ASICMINER Gen3 (2 Thash/second), with option to deliver on/before July 20 for $2800 and on/before June 30 for $3400?

Forgot to mention, you have already sold-out a pre-order for 150 pcs, June 17 delivery.

http://www.xbtec.ru/goods-view/asicminer-gen3-2-thash-second

Russian market is Russian. We have good relations with Russian-speaking community.
Moreover we have few anchor investors, who has invested our team, therefore 150psc has been sold out.
So, for now we do not take pre-orders.
Approximately Friday we have to say final price. We are forecasting to give price for July batch about 2800$, but for now it is just estimate value.

Please, have a read carefully the first post of this topic and wait for a Friday.

Sincerely, XBTec Team

XBTec, are you going to use the instant promotion on orders to US-this would give you a lot of the market if your machine is reliable at 2th/s at 1700W.
Do you have operational record graphs?
Also, i got it about June 17 batch, but why not sell June 30 batch to US and EU customers.
What's the warranty? Where are you shipping from-Shenzen or Moscow?

Edit: do you have a PR guy or what? Not answering questions on your own board is a bit rude, you better learn from Spondoolies

[psahx]

Do not forget he's Russian, so less talk, more action

I guess we'll have to wait, till Friday, as he have asked us, to see what does they have to offer...

Cheers

[StringTheory]

Will your units be rack mountable or will they require separate rail kits and shelves?

I am co-founder of Bitcoin ASIC Hosting (www.bitcoinasichosting.com) and would like to add your unit to our list of supported ASICs as they hit the market.

Thank you

[antirack]

can we have more info about that plz XBTec?



what would you consider a serious customer for the custom 0.5-5Ph mining rig with immersion cooling system?

When is it supposed to ship?  

This looks like oil immersion. And more like a home built tank without lots of design experience (PC, cable binders, PVC tube). I've seen far better stuff on youtube, mostly gaming rigs but also a few Bitcoin rigs. There are already commercial systems available (Green Revolution Cooling).

Oil is unfortunately a bad idea except if you like tinkering with a small system and a mess at home. Better to stick with air cooling IMHO if you are not in a hot environment to begin with. I've been working around oil tanks for years and everyone who has ever used it hates it. It was the only option for a few years, but now there is 2-phase immersion cooling with 3M Novec Engineered fluids as used in the ASICMiner system. It will soon be the only immersion cooling around.

For serious (as indicated the * in the image) as in commercial miners, oil is unusable. It may look cheaper on the surface, but it's a bloody mess and you only need very little Novec to cool compared to oil. 200cc Novec for 4kW of heat (the cost of a coffee at Starbucks or less than a pizza?).

So, unless you are loaded with cash and have a maintenance team with rubber boots and rubber gloves to keep the oil cooling system running, or you like looking at a greasy mess in a fish tank,  it's really a bad idea.

Here are a couple of reasons why:

- Oil is good at storing heat, that's why they put it in oil heaters (oil radiators)
- You need oil pumps, or your chips will overheat (noise, maintenance, energy)
- Oil cooling still needs the heatsinks, so what's the point?
- You can't use thermal grease, need expensive indium foil instead (still good with QNF probably and silicon pad -> BE200)
- Oil comes out at the other end of the cable ;-) (capillary effect)
- Get used to rubber gloves and rubber boots, lol
- The oil absorbs all sorts of stuff, needs to be changed
- You need to wash your hardware with dishwash liquid (I am not making this up)
- You spend a lot of time cleaning, and the freaking oil just doesn't go away
- Oil pumps fail, just like fans, oil filters need replacement

A couple of other things on safety/security:

- Fire department, insurance, and data center is not going to like it.
- If you follow the rules, you need secondary containment or you risk the authorities shutting you down
- You need to disable water sprinklers (flames, water and oil, get it?) or you risk the authorities shutting you down
- If you disable the water sprinklers, they still shut you down
- Oil is dielectric, but it's also a static accumulator. Sparks and oil are bad
  (earthing your system is extremely important, so is electrical wiring and good quality power supplies)

- How many gallons of mineral oil do you need for 5PH?
- Most countries require a license to "store" such amounts, even for transporting it in a car/truck (separate license)
- Where do you dispose it? Needs to go to a licensed company as well

For oil cooling, in addition to all the oil pumps and water pumps (there are heat exchangers), you need to use an evaporative cooling tower (wet tower). This means you constantly need to refill water, which costs money. Worse than that, the evaporative cooling towers are extremely messy because they are open and bacteria grows in them. That's why in some countries they are regulated and they can't be put near people/windows (people get Legionnaires' disease from them). You need to add chemicals, and you need to clean them once a month or so. That's why you need two (unless you don't mind shutting down your mine for a half day or so while you clean up the mess). In a small system (gaming PC) you can use a radiator instead, but what's the point if you are spending more energy instead of less?

Cooling tower cleaning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49KVBk-2wP8

Example of oil mining rig that actually consumes _more_ electricity than less:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpNERMxvPTk

(radiator, pumps, spinning fans, etc)


if you look at the best and most expensive oil cooling systems around (ie. Tsubame-KFC, a 30kW system at some university in Tokyo, it's the no. 1 on the Green 500 list) you get a PUE of 1.15 (15% for oil cooling) in October (when it's relatively cool in Tokyo). With passive 2-phase immersion cooling you get a PUE of less than 1.01 (less than 1% for 2-phase cooling) even in the desert. And all that with a lot less stuff (no heatsinks, no oil pumps, etc).

Tsubame-KFC: http://www.titech.ac.jp/english/news/2013/024456.html
PUE (Power Usage Effectiveness): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_usage_effectiveness

In summary, oil cooling is immersion cooling of yesterday. 3M Novec/DataTank is immersion cooling is immersion cooling of today and the future. Going back to oil cooling makes no sense. Ask any oil and gas company that tried it for HPC - if even the well funded oil and gas companies don't like oil cooling, that should teach us a lesson ;-)

There are probably a few more downsides, but it's 4AM so I may forget a few points. Going to sleep!

[tzortz]

Nice information, thanks.

Whats the 3M cost per gallon?

[antirack]

Nice information, thanks.

Whats the 3M cost per gallon?

They sell it by weight. And it's heavy unfortunately, about 1.5 times the density of water (but thinner, than water, so the opposite of oil).

And 3M normally only sells it to commercial and industrial customers for attractive prices. If you call them and ask for a gallon, it will cost an arm and a leg (I think I paid almost $200 for my first Novec 7000 years ago). It's an industrial fluid for an industrial application.

If you can build a system that uses very little fluid, the cost of the fluid will be less than the cost of a heat sink. That's the challenge. There is a lot of work being done, not only with open bath immersion cooling.

Xbox or PC cooling with some Novec in an experimental thermo syphon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg5mJjWXlsE

I think this was commercialized in the meantime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1P0VeV_SE

Really hitting the bed now.

[Slark]

On the left, it's me and on the right, it's Jura.

Thanks for this nice description. It was really nice of you to post all these information here. So how old is Jura exactly? He looks around 30 for me.

[psahx]

Shouldn't we have some updates by Friday? Which Friday? Maybe I am mixing up something

[minerpumpkin]

Yeah, I guess we should be in for some news soon!

Also, I'd really like to know about:
- the approximate quantities of the 2 batches
- when the 15 PH/s cloud mining center is supposed to go online

[dogie]

Shouldn't we have some updates by Friday? Which Friday? Maybe I am mixing up something

I should be due a package very soon if they're on time.

[XBTec]

can we have more info about that plz XBTec?



what would you consider a serious customer for the custom 0.5-5Ph mining rig with immersion cooling system?

When is it supposed to ship?  

This looks like oil immersion. And more like a home built tank without lots of design experience (PC, cable binders, PVC tube). I've seen far better stuff on youtube, mostly gaming rigs but also a few Bitcoin rigs. There are already commercial systems available (Green Revolution Cooling).

Oil is unfortunately a bad idea except if you like tinkering with a small system and a mess at home. Better to stick with air cooling IMHO if you are not in a hot environment to begin with. I've been working around oil tanks for years and everyone who has ever used it hates it. It was the only option for a few years, but now there is 2-phase immersion cooling with 3M Novec Engineered fluids as used in the ASICMiner system. It will soon be the only immersion cooling around.

For serious (as indicated the * in the image) as in commercial miners, oil is unusable. It may look cheaper on the surface, but it's a bloody mess and you only need very little Novec to cool compared to oil. 200cc Novec for 4kW of heat (the cost of a coffee at Starbucks or less than a pizza?).

So, unless you are loaded with cash and have a maintenance team with rubber boots and rubber gloves to keep the oil cooling system running, or you like looking at a greasy mess in a fish tank,  it's really a bad idea.

Here are a couple of reasons why:

- Oil is good at storing heat, that's why they put it in oil heaters (oil radiators)
- You need oil pumps, or your chips will overheat (noise, maintenance, energy)
- Oil cooling still needs the heatsinks, so what's the point?
- You can't use thermal grease, need expensive indium foil instead (still good with QNF probably and silicon pad -> BE200)
- Oil comes out at the other end of the cable ;-) (capillary effect)
- Get used to rubber gloves and rubber boots, lol
- The oil absorbs all sorts of stuff, needs to be changed
- You need to wash your hardware with dishwash liquid (I am not making this up)
- You spend a lot of time cleaning, and the freaking oil just doesn't go away
- Oil pumps fail, just like fans, oil filters need replacement

A couple of other things on safety/security:

- Fire department, insurance, and data center is not going to like it.
- If you follow the rules, you need secondary containment or you risk the authorities shutting you down
- You need to disable water sprinklers (flames, water and oil, get it?) or you risk the authorities shutting you down
- If you disable the water sprinklers, they still shut you down
- Oil is dielectric, but it's also a static accumulator. Sparks and oil are bad
  (earthing your system is extremely important, so is electrical wiring and good quality power supplies)

- How many gallons of mineral oil do you need for 5PH?
- Most countries require a license to "store" such amounts, even for transporting it in a car/truck (separate license)
- Where do you dispose it? Needs to go to a licensed company as well

For oil cooling, in addition to all the oil pumps and water pumps (there are heat exchangers), you need to use an evaporative cooling tower (wet tower). This means you constantly need to refill water, which costs money. Worse than that, the evaporative cooling towers are extremely messy because they are open and bacteria grows in them. That's why in some countries they are regulated and they can't be put near people/windows (people get Legionnaires' disease from them). You need to add chemicals, and you need to clean them once a month or so. That's why you need two (unless you don't mind shutting down your mine for a half day or so while you clean up the mess). In a small system (gaming PC) you can use a radiator instead, but what's the point if you are spending more energy instead of less?

Cooling tower cleaning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49KVBk-2wP8

Example of oil mining rig that actually consumes _more_ electricity than less:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpNERMxvPTk

(radiator, pumps, spinning fans, etc)


if you look at the best and most expensive oil cooling systems around (ie. Tsubame-KFC, a 30kW system at some university in Tokyo, it's the no. 1 on the Green 500 list) you get a PUE of 1.15 (15% for oil cooling) in October (when it's relatively cool in Tokyo). With passive 2-phase immersion cooling you get a PUE of less than 1.01 (less than 1% for 2-phase cooling) even in the desert. And all that with a lot less stuff (no heatsinks, no oil pumps, etc).

Tsubame-KFC: http://www.titech.ac.jp/english/news/2013/024456.html
PUE (Power Usage Effectiveness): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_usage_effectiveness

In summary, oil cooling is immersion cooling of yesterday. 3M Novec/DataTank is immersion cooling is immersion cooling of today and the future. Going back to oil cooling makes no sense. Ask any oil and gas company that tried it for HPC - if even the well funded oil and gas companies don't like oil cooling, that should teach us a lesson ;-)

There are probably a few more downsides, but it's 4AM so I may forget a few points. Going to sleep!

1. We are using silicone oil.
2. 3M really very dangerous for people, in case of leak liquid. Service staff have to use gas respirator, if they wanna to stay alive.
3. 3M liquid definitely efficiently cooling, BUT 3M liquid is boiling. When liquid boiling it could damage PCB boards and compounds.
Why? You can read about cavitation effect in Wikipedia or other sources.

Liquid in our system do not freeze even if temperature is 50 Celsius degrees below zero and do not boiling even after 100 Celsius degrees above zero.
This liquid is safety for service staff and do not damage PCB board and compounds, cause we are take attention to cavitation effect.

[jimmothy]

2. 3M really very dangerous for people, in case of leak liquid. Service staff have to use gas respirator, if they wanna to stay alive.

How so? Novec fluid has very low toxicity and is nonflamable (even used in fire extinguishers).

I've also never heard of cavitation being a problem. Got a source for that?

Also any progress on the pacific 2000? Shipping date? Power consumption at the wall?

[dogie]

How so? Novec fluid has very low toxicity and is nonflamable (even used in fire extinguishers).

Also any progress on the pacific 2000? Shipping date? Power consumption at the wall?

There is your answer

[jimmothy]

Not sure what that answers. If it is used in fire extinguishers the vapor can't be harmful.

I've never heard anyone claim the vapor is dangerous let alone lethal.

[dogie]

Not sure what that answers. If it is used in fire extinguishers the vapor can't be harmful.

I've never heard anyone claim the vapor is dangerous let alone lethal.

What I was saying was that its the vapours that kill. The liquid itself is fine, but the vapours suck. It doesn't matter if its used in a fire extinguisher, plenty of things are used in the fire extinguishers which are toxic (like the powder ones). They're not licensed for residential use because of it.

[cxboyminer]

Not sure what that answers. If it is used in fire extinguishers the vapor can't be harmful.

I've never heard anyone claim the vapor is dangerous let alone lethal.

What I was saying was that its the vapours that kill. The liquid itself is fine, but the vapours suck. It doesn't matter if its used in a fire extinguisher, plenty of things are used in the fire extinguishers which are toxic (like the powder ones). They're not licensed for residential use because of it.

Have you receive the miner yet dogie?

[jimmothy]

Not sure what that answers. If it is used in fire extinguishers the vapor can't be harmful.

I've never heard anyone claim the vapor is dangerous let alone lethal.

What I was saying was that its the vapours that kill. The liquid itself is fine, but the vapours suck. It doesn't matter if its used in a fire extinguisher, plenty of things are used in the fire extinguishers which are toxic (like the powder ones). They're not licensed for residential use because of it.

Got a source for that? I've never heard of such claims.

Novec extinguishers are supposed to boil and release a shit ton of vapor so I can't imagine they would use it if it was toxic.

Not to mention that the vapor leakage would be so small in any decent immersion system that it would be neglegable even if it was moderately toxic (which it's not as far as I know)

If novec was so toxic how do you explain Allied Controls DC which can be visited without the need for gas masks? They use an open bath system so vapor is constantly leaking in to the air. And iirc their offices are connected to the DC so they are practically living in the vapor.

Also if cavitation is such an issue how do you explain Allied Controls system which ran smoothely for 6+ months?

[dogie]

Have you receive the miner yet dogie?

No, not yet.

[antirack]

Rest assured he doesn't know what he is talking about. Boiling is not cavitation.  Cavitation is the sudden formation and violent supersonic collapse of vapor bubbles following quick swings in pressure such as one encounters in the water flowing from pressure to suction side of a propeller or impeller in water.  It can also be cause by tortuous bends in pipes, etc, anywhere a volatile liquid flows through wild pressure gradients.  

And no, nobody needs to wear respirators and tanks are routinely wide open

jimmothy is right, Novec is also used as fire extinguisher, including operating theaters and other places, and also a couple of medical applications. I'd be rather worried about a few of the hundreds of fumes that are released when a PCB burns down or an ATX power supply, cable, connector etc.

[jimmothy]

Is that phil?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivVoANqFBuY

^ Very informative video about 2-phase immersion cooling from phil.

[antirack]

Is that phil?

That is Phil, and the other hungover guy in the back is me. 48h in airplane, airport, hotel, jet legged, etc ;-)

[show_off]

0,75 Watt per Gh lackluster, the price certainly your high, who would buy the mining machine

[XBTec]

Hey again.
During this time we were faced with some technical problems.
These problems has been solved successfully

To Dogie: we will send device to you nearest days.

Thanks for understanding

[dogie]

Hey again.
During this time we were faced with some technical problems.
These problems has been solved successfully

To Dogie: we will send device to you nearest days.

Thanks for understanding

Noted.

0,75 Watt per Gh lackluster, the price certainly your high, who would buy the mining machine

Its some of the best for large scale implementations, for now at least.

[cxboyminer]

Looking forward to the release.

[XBTec]

2. 3M really very dangerous for people, in case of leak liquid. Service staff have to use gas respirator, if they wanna to stay alive.

How so? Novec fluid has very low toxicity and is nonflamable (even used in fire extinguishers).

I've also never heard of cavitation being a problem. Got a source for that?

Also any progress on the pacific 2000? Shipping date? Power consumption at the wall?

that is reason, they can not get safety certificate, and probably will never get it.
If large volume of liquid leak... it could be lethal dose. This liquid is ether in fact.

if you have never heard about cavitation damage, it does not mean this problem is not exists
Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation#Cavitation_damage
http://www.engineersedge.com/pumps/cavitation.htm

[dogie]

2. 3M really very dangerous for people, in case of leak liquid. Service staff have to use gas respirator, if they wanna to stay alive.

How so? Novec fluid has very low toxicity and is nonflamable (even used in fire extinguishers).

I've also never heard of cavitation being a problem. Got a source for that?

Also any progress on the pacific 2000? Shipping date? Power consumption at the wall?

that is reason, they can not get safety certificate, and probably will never get it.
If large volume of liquid leak... it could be lethal dose. This liquid is ether in fact.

if you have never heard about cavitation damage, it does not mean this problem is not exists
Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation#Cavitation_damage
http://www.engineersedge.com/pumps/cavitation.htm

To add to this:
If you look up the data sheet of Novec based fire extinguishers, look in the toxicity section. It says its 'safe'. Look at the methodology. The acute 4 hour poisoning is 'safe', which means given the assumptions it has a 60-120% safety margin. This goes entirely out the window when you're dealing with a warehouse full of the stuff.

[XBTec]

Rest assured he doesn't know what he is talking about. Boiling is not cavitation.  Cavitation is the sudden formation and violent supersonic collapse of vapor bubbles following quick swings in pressure such as one encounters in the water flowing from pressure to suction side of a propeller or impeller in water.  It can also be cause by tortuous bends in pipes, etc, anywhere a volatile liquid flows through wild pressure gradients.

Cavitation is effect, which happens when liquid boiling and vaporize. Cavitation damage large bearings and turbines. Cavitation damage even huge turbines and bearings, which made from the metal. So, what will happen with PCB Boards after 1 year using?
Need proofs? Okay
Photo of damaged turbine
Issue from Princeton University
Cavitation Damage

And no, nobody needs to wear respirators and tanks are routinely wide open

jimmothy is right, Novec is also used as fire extinguisher, including operating theaters and other places, and also a couple of medical applications. I'd be rather worried about a few of the hundreds of fumes that are released when a PCB burns down or an ATX power supply, cable, connector etc.

this guy on the picture just playing on public.

Actually, it is not so ethically to promote your product in others thread. I did not said anything about that before, but you may create your own thread and promote it there.

For instance, if we pour some 3M liquid on the table - it vaporize out less than 1 minute.
If system suddenly get leak and 250-300 liters will vaporize , how can service staff fix this problem without respirator?

[jimmothy]

2. 3M really very dangerous for people, in case of leak liquid. Service staff have to use gas respirator, if they wanna to stay alive.

How so? Novec fluid has very low toxicity and is nonflamable (even used in fire extinguishers).

I've also never heard of cavitation being a problem. Got a source for that?

Also any progress on the pacific 2000? Shipping date? Power consumption at the wall?

that is reason, they can not get safety certificate, and probably will never get it.
If large volume of liquid leak... it could be lethal dose. This liquid is ether in fact.

if you have never heard about cavitation damage, it does not mean this problem is not exists
Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation#Cavitation_damage
http://www.engineersedge.com/pumps/cavitation.htm

To add to this:
If you look up the data sheet of Novec based fire extinguishers, look in the toxicity section. It says its 'safe'. Look at the methodology. The acute 4 hour poisoning is 'safe', which means given the assumptions it has a 60-120% safety margin. This goes entirely out the window when you're dealing with a warehouse full of the stuff.

Nonsense.

http://solutions.3mae.ae/wps/portal/3M/en_AE/3MNovec_APAC/Home/Support/Safety/

This page explains the safety pretty well.

As for cavitation, I know it exists.

What I don't know is whether it exists in 2-phase immersion cooling but I do know that it's not a problem because extensive testing has shown it's not a problem.

[jimmothy]

Rest assured he doesn't know what he is talking about. Boiling is not cavitation.  Cavitation is the sudden formation and violent supersonic collapse of vapor bubbles following quick swings in pressure such as one encounters in the water flowing from pressure to suction side of a propeller or impeller in water.  It can also be cause by tortuous bends in pipes, etc, anywhere a volatile liquid flows through wild pressure gradients.

Cavitation is effect, which happens when liquid boiling and vaporize. Cavitation damage large bearings and turbines. Cavitation damage even huge turbines and bearings, which made from the metal. So, what will happen with PCB Boards after 1 year using?
Need proofs? Okay
Photo of damaged turbine
Issue from Princeton University
Cavitation Damage

We already know cavitation is a real thing. Now prove it exists in immersion cooling.

Here's a quote from wikipedia:

The physical process of cavitation inception is similar to boiling. The major difference between the two is the thermodynamic paths that precede the formation of the vapor. Boiling occurs when the local vapor pressure of the liquid rises above its local ambient pressure and sufficient energy is present to cause the phase change to a gas. Cavitation inception occurs when the local pressure falls sufficiently far below the saturated vapor pressure, a value given by the tensile strength of the liquid at a certain temperature.

this guy on the picture just playing on public.

You mean this guy, 3M, IBM, Intel, Allied control, Coolermaster, Zotac, etc..

For instance, if we pour some 3M liquid on the table - it vaporize out less than 1 minute.
If system suddenly get leak and 250-300 liters will vaporize , how can service staff fix this problem without respirator?

That is simply not true.

Have you ever spilled liters of water in a room and seen it evaporate within minutes? Although heat of vaporization is much lower than water, it still takes a lot of energy to vaporize.

With some simple safety controls there should be no problem with toxicity.

Again, if the people at allied control/3m are living in this stuff, it can't be so harmful.

[dogie]

To add to this:
If you look up the data sheet of Novec based fire extinguishers, look in the toxicity section. It says its 'safe'. Look at the methodology. The acute 4 hour poisoning is 'safe', which means given the assumptions it has a 60-120% safety margin. This goes entirely out the window when you're dealing with a warehouse full of the stuff.

Nonsense.

http://solutions.3mae.ae/wps/portal/3M/en_AE/3MNovec_APAC/Home/Support/Safety/

This page explains the safety pretty well.

As for cavitation, I know it exists.

What I don't know is whether it exists in 2-phase immersion cooling but I do know that it's not a problem because extensive testing has shown it's not a problem.

Safety Margin    69 – 138%

Do you know what a safety factor is? Bad things happen once its breached. The page says 'yeah its less than the dangerous dose + a bit... when its at this specific %'. That doesn't mean the vapour itself is safe, it just means under that dilution its safe. The safety factor would be 100x-infinity if it was actually safe.

[CanaryInTheMine]

Constant exposure != a frikin fire extinguisher that you may never use...

Btw, what's that ambient temp of the room where this liquid is?  Remember your chemistry? Escape velocity for vapours etc... Etc...

[LeanSixSigma]

Cavitation is effect, which happens when liquid boiling and vaporize. Cavitation damage large bearings and turbines. Cavitation damage even huge turbines and bearings, which made from the metal. So, what will happen with PCB Boards after 1 year using?
Need proofs? Okay
Photo of damaged turbine
Issue from Princeton University
Cavitation Damage

There's absolutely no correlation between temperature induced boiling like in 2-phase immersion cooling (no moving mechanical parts) and cavitation (caused predominantly by mechanical moving parts).

Temperature induced boiling like used in the 2-phase immersion cooling is excess energy which changes liquid to vapor. The vapor forms bubbles which have a lot of stored heat energy and higher pressure than the surrounding liquid. Therefore bubbles will rise up and some even grow when merging, but they will NOT just collapse on their own. Or otherwise we would see the same damages of cavitation on all cooking pots, pans, etc. as well and those will not show any effect even after decades of boiling water.

The damaging cavitation you are referring to are caused by low pressure, e.g. pumps, turbines etc. creating a very fast flow of liquids (e.g. venturi effect). Like it is possible to boil water on Mount Everest with very low air pressure at much lower temperatures, the actual energy put into those bubbles is only very little. But as soon as the surrounding liquid pressure takes over with turbulences etc. over the temporary low pressure, then the cavitation occurs. The energy in the bubbles is too little to sustain their state and caused only by temporary low pressure, unlike temperature induced boiling where bubbles have a lot energy insider to carry vapor to the surface. That's why you will always see cavitation damage in connection with pumps, turbines, valves, etc., but NOT temperature induced boiling.

Here's a good article describing it:
http://www.pump-zone.com/topics/pumps/centrifugal-pumps/when-bubbles-dont-burst-why-cavitation-damaging

jimmothy took exactly the right text part out of the Wiki article on cavitation. Since the DIFFERENCE is being described between boiling and cavitation, they are NOT the same as the bubbles are created differently (temperature vs. low pressure). Cavitation does not occur with temperature induced boiling. On the other hand, oil cooling uses pumps to circulate oil to and from the heat exchanger, so yes - there might be cavitation around the pump impellers just as mentioned on Wiki and all the other links where pumps or anything with an impeller / propeller causing fast moving liquid pressure differentials.

On toxicity and evaporation and all other arguments on that it's not practical - one of the many articles on the web:
http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/542462/intel_sgi_test_full-immersion_cooling_servers/
Does it mean that Intel, SGI, U.S. Naval Research Laboratory, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Schneider Electric, etc. are all wrong, suicidal and have no idea what they're doing? Interesting... maybe you could make much more money by teaching all their PhD's, etc. a lesson in physics and chemistry and prove they're all wrong...

Guys, if you want to use scientific arguments, then please apply those correctly and not make any unfounded statements where correlation is not proven. At high school we've learned how racists tried to use pseudo-scientific arguments to claim that black people are less intelligent, because they allegedly have their hair roots outside of their head and their hair is growing inwards into the head, leaving less space for the brain... Everyone can make (false) claims, but please provide scientifically backed sources / experiments / case studies with sufficient large sample sizes to prove your point.

[cxboyminer]

BE CAREFUL WITH THIS LOT

As far as im concerned they are not trust worthy !

Pleaase refer to this topic for more info then make your own mind up : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=645147.0

Just because you didnt get paid. You see, we never know until we see the miner (demo maybe?)

[cxboyminer]

Bitmain has poor communications IMO, but still they are succeeding.

[XBTec]

mnporter2001 would be polite from your side to delete your blaming to our side.
You have got your payout for 100%, despite a lot your posts were useless

[whalezy]

what's your development situation now? Expected date for first batch?

[minerpumpkin]

We were faced higher power consumption, than estimates. Ready-to-mine prototype will have outputted until 27th June.

I wonder whether they fixed the problems with the power consumption or if we have to live with those problems.

[XBTec]

Finally, PCB board has been outputted yesterday.
All night and all day our engineers tested it.
We've got about 0.9W/Ghs power consumption.
Tomorrow we will assemble all these stuff in one case and test.

Tomorrow I will upload short video of working device, I think.

[Another User]

Finally, PCB board has been outputted yesterday.
All night and all day our engineers tested it.
We've got about 0.9W/Ghs power consumption.
Tomorrow we will assemble all these stuff in one case and test.

Tomorrow I will upload short video of working device, I think.

[bit_wizard]

Finally, PCB board has been outputted yesterday.
All night and all day our engineers tested it.
We've got about 0.9W/Ghs power consumption.
Tomorrow we will assemble all these stuff in one case and test.

Tomorrow I will upload short video of working device, I think.

Great! It's the "I think" part that scares me 

[dogie]

Finally, PCB board has been outputted yesterday.
All night and all day our engineers tested it.
We've got about 0.9W/Ghs power consumption.
Tomorrow we will assemble all these stuff in one case and test.

Tomorrow I will upload short video of working device, I think.

Great! It's the "I think" part that scares me 

Time, and sleep. They are working hard.

[forzendiablo]

any news on this?

[stan258]

Whats the Price?

[teeGUMES]

try reading 5 posts into the past for magical answers to your questions

[stan258]

try reading 5 posts into the past for magical answers to your questions

If they have the parts ready to go and a working board, I need a better then 2800 estimate with the S3 deployment looming. If not then I dont take the risk. Hows that for magic?

[XBTec]

We will get cases and heatsinks nearest few days.
Anyway, its running without case and heatsinks. Of course in test mode.

[newguy05]

is this a scam?

any evidence they have working miners besides that one blurred photo

[tzortz]

Deal with escrow.

Are you in Jim?

I can increase the bet to 0.5BTC if you want too.

No need for escrow.

And no I don't have that much to gamble.

Deal if you agree to 1+w/gh = you win. Less than that and I win.

Jim, you owe some bet here.

We have no gear to this thread.

Let me know when you make the payment to Sean's.

 

[jimmothy]

Deal with escrow.

Are you in Jim?

I can increase the bet to 0.5BTC if you want too.

No need for escrow.

And no I don't have that much to gamble.

Deal if you agree to 1+w/gh = you win. Less than that and I win.

Jim, you owe some bet here.

We have no gear to this thread.

Let me know when you make the payment to Sean's.

 

How did I lose?

[tzortz]

How long will we wait for this bet?

It is 2 months ago already.

[jimmothy]

How long will we wait for this bet?

It is 2 months ago already.

It's been only 2 weeks past their estimated shipping date.

Doesn't matter though since the bet included nothing about them shipping on time.

[tzortz]

Are you kidding me?

They dont have any finished product to show yet.

And you , also, mean that there is no bet , even if they wont ship at all?

[jimmothy]

Are you kidding me?

They dont have any finished product to show yet.

And you , also, mean that there is no bet , even if they wont ship at all?

The bet is over when we have reached a conclusion.

They have not proven to be a scam or proven to have hardware less efficient than 1w/gh.

So sorry but no I am not going to call the bet early because you are getting impatient.

[psahx]

 

Next Friday ^TM

[smoothie]

Finally, PCB board has been outputted yesterday.
All night and all day our engineers tested it.
We've got about 0.9W/Ghs power consumption.
Tomorrow we will assemble all these stuff in one case and test.

Tomorrow I will upload short video of working device, I think.

Great! It's the "I think" part that scares me  

Time, and sleep. They are working hard.

Working hard and working smart are two different things and are worlds apart.

Not a surprise they didnt hit their ship date. More of the same.

[DimensionsOfHell]

S3 is already up for sale, at about $1/gh and 0.77w/gh.

2TH from the Antminer S3 (4 units, being BTC0.75 each) would only pull about 1560w, and cost $1935 (as of BTC price being $645 when writing) without the PSU's, so you must add in the cost of PSU.



So.... what do you guys got? When will it be ready? And what price point will it really end up being?

[tzortz]

Are you kidding me?

They dont have any finished product to show yet.

And you , also, mean that there is no bet , even if they wont ship at all?

The bet is over when we have reached a conclusion.

They have not proven to be a scam or proven to have hardware less efficient than 1w/gh.

So sorry but no I am not going to call the bet early because you are getting impatient.

It is two months already.

How long do we have to wait then?

[jimmothy]

It is two months already.

How long do we have to wait then?

It's been one month..

They seem very close to having a completed prototype so any day now we should know.

[ChuckBuck]

You guys @tzortz @jimmothy should set a hard cutoff date for your bet:

Estimated date of output sample devices for test: 10 June
When test sample will output, we will send one device to Dogie for review.

Estimated date of output first batch: 17th June (very limited quantity)
Estimated date of 2nd batch: 15 July

Since they already missed their first date, set the cutoff at July 15th.

If they have nothing to show for it: no prototypes, no review unit for Dogie, no working proof, then tzortz wins by default.

If they somehow have something working in video, pics, Eligius stats, etc, then you go to the original bet parameters.


These guys smell like Black Arrow part 2 somehow.  Just something slimy about this outfit...

[teeGUMES]

Yea I really don't like how they have accepted money from buyers or set new possible dates that they may not make. Oh wait.. they aren't accepting money for "pre orders" from us miners. They also communicated they ran in to problems and rather than toss up a bullshit future date it looks like they have been solving the issues.

Let's get a definition check on the word estimate for some of these guys. These guys came straight out and said they would send a unit to Dogie for review, we didn't have to ask them to do this. Worse comes to worse Dogie never gets a unit and this thread was only good to raise your post count.

Be a smart buyer, don't buy until Dogie gives the a-ok,  and go buy an S3 to bid you over til the release of this miner.

[Djo]

That`s good attitude.
I hope you will post all those infos when you are ready.
Best wishes

[XBTec]

Yea I really don't like how they have accepted money from buyers or set new possible dates that they may not make. Oh wait.. they aren't accepting money for "pre orders" from us miners. They also communicated they ran in to problems and rather than toss up a bullshit future date it looks like they have been solving the issues.

Let's get a definition check on the word estimate for some of these guys. These guys came straight out and said they would send a unit to Dogie for review, we didn't have to ask them to do this. Worse comes to worse Dogie never gets a unit and this thread was only good to raise your post count.

Be a smart buyer, don't buy until Dogie gives the a-ok,  and go buy an S3 to bid you over til the release of this miner.

we do not accepting money for pre-orders. We have enough BTC to design device by our own forces.
So, why do you blaming us?

[teeGUMES]

Yea I really don't like how they have accepted money from buyers or set new possible dates that they may not make. Oh wait.. they aren't accepting money for "pre orders" from us miners. They also communicated they ran in to problems and rather than toss up a bullshit future date it looks like they have been solving the issues.

Let's get a definition check on the word estimate for some of these guys. These guys came straight out and said they would send a unit to Dogie for review, we didn't have to ask them to do this. Worse comes to worse Dogie never gets a unit and this thread was only good to raise your post count.

Be a smart buyer, don't buy until Dogie gives the a-ok,  and go buy an S3 to bid you over til the release of this miner.

we do not accepting money for pre-orders. We have enough BTC to design device by our own forces.
So, why do you blaming us?

you have misread what i wrote, it was sarcasm towards the people complaining about your progress.

What i was trying to get across was that you guys are doing exactly what the industry standard should be, no pre orders ( because delays can happen and no one likes their money tied up ) and when there is an issue or a delay you communicated with us and rather than set a new possibly unachievable date, you instead got down to work and it appears you fixed it. Keep up the good work.

[tzortz]

We will get cases and heatsinks nearest few days.
Anyway, its running without case and heatsinks. Of course in test mode.

What is the magazine for?

[dogie]

We will get cases and heatsinks nearest few days.
Anyway, its running without case and heatsinks. Of course in test mode.

What is the magazine for?

Prove the date (that its not an old picture), like a newspaper. Its probably a recognisable one, although its clear that its a world cup issue.

[tzortz]

We will get cases and heatsinks nearest few days.
Anyway, its running without case and heatsinks. Of course in test mode.

What is the magazine for?

Prove the date (that its not an old picture), like a newspaper. Its probably a recognisable one, although its clear that its a world cup issue.

Yes world cup, but for which year? 

[BitsBitsBits]

We will get cases and heatsinks nearest few days.
Anyway, its running without case and heatsinks. Of course in test mode.

What is the magazine for?

Prove the date (that its not an old picture), like a newspaper. Its probably a recognisable one, although its clear that its a world cup issue.

Yes world cup, but for which year? 

If they had that machine in 2010 they wouldn't need to start their own company of asic manufacturers.

[BitsBitsBits]

XBTEC RUN SCAM SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN NO PAY NO ONE
EVERY WEEK LATE MANY EXCUSE

OP hasn't been online for a couple of days, give the guy a break.

[Chris_Sabian]

XBTEC RUN SCAM SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN NO PAY NO ONE
EVERY WEEK LATE MANY EXCUSE

A newbie can join a signature campaign?   I thought that only a signature was visible when with Jr Member and above. 

[Acidyo]

XBTEC RUN SCAM SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN NO PAY NO ONE
EVERY WEEK LATE MANY EXCUSE

A newbie can join a signature campaign?   I thought that only a signature was visible when with Jr Member and above. 

He was obviously using a new account to flame OP.

[XBTec]

If there exist really unsatisfied users?
Did we took advance payments from somebody?
Did we cheating to someone?
If yes, prove it. If no, why these Newibes blaming us without evidences.

We delayed payments for signature advertising for few days, but this problem solved already.
We did pay to everybody.

We delayed sending test device to Dogie for review. But it was a technical problem and we do not repudiate our promises. When tested device will on our hands we will send it to Dogie.

I bet, behind this newibes one of our competitors.
We do not hide behind laptop displays. If anyone wants to see we are legal we are ready to meet.

[tzortz]

Everything runs so fast in bitcoinland, except you.
You promised for some test machines and some batches but nothing.

I wonder why you make announcements when you have nothing to show.


hey Jimmy, where is the bet here?  

[ChuckBuck]

Everything runs so fast in bitcoinland, except you.
You promised for some test machines and some batches but nothing.

I wonder why you make announcements when you have nothing to show.


hey Jimmy, where is the bet here?  

Hey Tzortz, I think you give Jimmothy until the end of the day for the bet according to XBTec's guidelines:

Estimated date of output sample devices for test: 10 June
When test sample will output, we will send one device to Dogie for review.

Estimated date of output first batch: 17th June (very limited quantity)
Estimated date of 2nd batch: 15 July

If no one has a shipping number or proof that these are even in production, then after the 15th, you should definitely hit up Jimmothy for your payday.   

[psahx]

If no one has a shipping number or proof that these are even in production, then after the 15th, you should definitely hit up Jimmothy for your payday.   

It is more than obvious, that XBTec have not got anything to show yet. Even if they ship "something", they will have to pull that out of their arses. No chance they have a working unit now, otherwise they would at least post some video.

So, if they do not have the production of their miners in some kind of a parallel reality, there are ZERO chances, that they can keep their promises.

I want to see, what jimmothy has to say about this.

P.S. Popcorn time 

[dogie]

If no one has a shipping number or proof that these are even in production, then after the 15th, you should definitely hit up Jimmothy for your payday.   

It is more than obvious, that XBTec have not got anything to show yet. Even if they ship "something", they will have to pull that out of their arses. No chance they have a working unit now, otherwise they would at least post some video.

So, if they do not have the production of their miners in some kind of a parallel reality, there are ZERO chances, that they can keep their promises.

I want to see, what jimmothy has to say about this.

P.S. Popcorn time 

I dont think the bet had a clause about total non shipment. They didn't beat or exceed power consumption, there was a no contest. I think both parties should either agree to cancel the bet, or if they can't agree, continue to wait. I will try and get an update.

[jimmothy]

If they turn out to be a scam or similar (don't think they took preorders so I'm not sure who could get scammed) then I'll consider myself the loser even though catastrophic failure was not included in the bet.

That being said I still want to give them a bit more time because a ~1 month delay is still perfectly normal for hardware development.

I'd say giving them 1 more month would be fair.

[jimmothy]

If they turn out to be a scam or similar (don't think they took preorders so I'm not sure who could get scammed) then I'll consider myself the loser even though catastrophic failure was not included in the bet.

That being said I still want to give them a bit more time because a ~1 month delay is still perfectly normal for hardware development.

I'd say giving them 1 more month would be fair.

This mentality needs to change. No, it is not 'perfectly normal' for a month delay.

It's normal for a business to do proper planning and expect the unexpected. Not to literally copy & paste what 20 companies before you have been doing. They still have not even updated their OP.

Yes, delays/unexpected issues in hardware development are incredibly common which is why I'd imagine you don't see hardware preorders anywhere other than in the bitcoin world.

The reason it is completely acceptable is because they did not take preorders and/or make guarantees.

They could be 2 years late for all I care as long as they are not holding anyones money hostage.

[dogie]

If they turn out to be a scam or similar (don't think they took preorders so I'm not sure who could get scammed) then I'll consider myself the loser even though catastrophic failure was not included in the bet.

That being said I still want to give them a bit more time because a ~1 month delay is still perfectly normal for hardware development.

I'd say giving them 1 more month would be fair.

This mentality needs to change. No, it is not 'perfectly normal' for a month delay.

It's normal for a business to do proper planning and expect the unexpected. Not to literally copy & paste what 20 companies before you have been doing. They still have not even updated their OP.

Yes, delays/unexpected issues in hardware development are incredibly common which is why I'd imagine you don't see hardware preorders anywhere other than in the bitcoin world.

The reason it is completely acceptable is because they did not take preorders and/or make guarantees.

They could be 2 years late for all I care as long as they are not holding anyones money hostage.

It's just getting old and annoying when we see a company someone post about a new chip/miner and put up actual dates of shipping when in reality this is all coming out of their ***. That's where I have a problem. They could have just not posted this thread to begin with and nothing would have changed. They are still nowhere to be found, no progress etc. "Why even make this thread?" I guess is my point I'm trying to make. Meh, like you said, as long as no money is tied up it's all moot.

They had a miner. It wasn't perfect, it was okay. It competed with the competition, but they wanted better. That's not 'coming out of their ass', that's wanting better (and having a reasonably easy fix).

What do you have to show us?

[dogie]

What do you have to show us?

I'm not claiming to be a bitcoin asic manufacturer, am I, dogie? 

Everything I say I'm going to do, I do.

You're claiming they had nothing, they do have something.

[tzortz]

Where is the something?
You mean , the picture with the magazine?

None of them XBTec guys reply to our messages anymore.
Also, there are no updates about their progress or any estimated delivery time.

If they don't deliver then you lose Jimmothy. It is quite obvious.

Okay lets wait another month, until 15 of August,

[BitsBitsBits]

XBTec seem like they are really busy lately. Not coming online for a couple days/only making a few posts.

I really hope they get on their feet and start showing what they have accomplished. I wish them good luck.

[DjPxH]

I really was watching this company as it seemed as if they had cracked asicminer's efficiency problems, but it doesn't look good. I don't know if jimmothy's bet would default to 'lost' if they didn't produce a miner. but he takes it like an honorable person!

[tzortz]

Of course he is lost as soon as he claims that they will PRODUCE an efficient miner.

How can you claim, and insist, and bet, that is a successful manufacturer with low energy consumption gear when he is finally a scam?

It is more than obvious.

[FUR11]

Of course he is lost as soon as he claims that they will PRODUCE an efficient miner.

How can you claim, and insist, and bet, that is a successful manufacturer with low energy consumption gear when he is finally a scam?

It is more than obvious.

Well, don't be so hasty... Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute something to malice that can equally well explained by stupidity or incompetence. They never took anyone's money, so I fail to see how this is a scam!

[psahx]

Well, don't be so hasty... Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute something to malice that can equally well explained by stupidity or incompetence. They never took anyone's money, so I fail to see how this is a scam!

You are wrong. They took pre-orders on their Russian page. I doubt any of their Russian customers have received anything.

You state, you DO NOT ACCEPT PRE-ORDERS, right?

How come, that on your Russian webpage, you are offering pre-orders for ASICMINER Gen3 (2 Thash/second), with option to deliver on/before July 20 for $2800 and on/before June 30 for $3400?

Forgot to mention, you have already sold-out a pre-order for 150 pcs, June 17 delivery.

http://www.xbtec.ru/goods-view/asicminer-gen3-2-thash-second

Russian market is Russian. We have good relations with Russian-speaking community.
Moreover we have few anchor investors, who has invested our team, therefore 150psc has been sold out.
So, for now we do not take pre-orders.
Approximately Friday we have to say final price. We are forecasting to give price for July batch about 2800$, but for now it is just estimate value.

Please, have a read carefully the first post of this topic and wait for a Friday.

Sincerely, XBTec Team

[tzortz]

Right , I forgot about that.

They said that had sold out the 150pcs.

[DjPxH]

Well, don't be so hasty... Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute something to malice that can equally well explained by stupidity or incompetence. They never took anyone's money, so I fail to see how this is a scam!

You are wrong. They took pre-orders on their Russian page. I doubt any of their Russian customers have received anything.

You state, you DO NOT ACCEPT PRE-ORDERS, right?

How come, that on your Russian webpage, you are offering pre-orders for ASICMINER Gen3 (2 Thash/second), with option to deliver on/before July 20 for $2800 and on/before June 30 for $3400?

Forgot to mention, you have already sold-out a pre-order for 150 pcs, June 17 delivery.

http://www.xbtec.ru/goods-view/asicminer-gen3-2-thash-second

Russian market is Russian. We have good relations with Russian-speaking community.
Moreover we have few anchor investors, who has invested our team, therefore 150psc has been sold out.
So, for now we do not take pre-orders.
Approximately Friday we have to say final price. We are forecasting to give price for July batch about 2800$, but for now it is just estimate value.

Please, have a read carefully the first post of this topic and wait for a Friday.

Sincerely, XBTec Team

Ah really? Yeah I guess you're right. But haven't those been some bold investors that were okay with taking a bigger risk? Aw, snap, anyways this is bad for them. I guess this time some Russians got scammed. Cue the Soviet Russia jokes...

[tzortz]

Although, our bet was not if they were scams or not, but if they will PRODUCE an efficient miner.

Looks like that they will never produce anything, hence no efficiency.
It is a far worse scenario than producing an inefficient hardware.

I could not find a reason that Jim is not lost.

[minerpumpkin]

Although, our bet was not if they were scams or not, but if they will PRODUCE an efficient miner.

Looks like that they will never produce anything, hence no efficiency.
It is a far worse scenario than producing an inefficient hardware.

I could not find a reason that Jim is not lost.

Yup, I'd say chances are 75% that this thing is dead in the water and 25% that they may produce some miner that may or may not meet the advertised specs but it's doubtful if it is worth the money by then.

[jimmothy]

http://www.xbtec.ru/news/zapushhen-nash-data-tsentr-v-shenchzhene-kitaj

[hdbuck]

Although, our bet was not if they were scams or not, but if they will PRODUCE an efficient miner.

Looks like that they will never produce anything, hence no efficiency.
It is a far worse scenario than producing an inefficient hardware.

I could not find a reason that Jim is not lost.

Yup, I'd say chances are 75% that this thing is dead in the water and 25% that they may produce some miner that may or may not meet the advertised specs but it's doubtful if it is worth the money by then.

http://www.xbtec.ru/news/zapushhen-nash-data-tsentr-v-shenchzhene-kitaj

[tzortz]

 

[psahx]

LOL

So what, they got set up some mining farm for themselves, with some dragon miners... Did they ship the pre-orders to the Russian customers? Did they ship the test unit to Dogie? Anyone with enough money can open a mining farm in Shenzhen...

Effin' ridiculous...

[jimmothy]

So what, they got set up some mining farm for themselves, with some dragon miners.

They are not dragon miners.

They also said in the first post of this thread that they will be building a massive datacenter. Not sure what you are surprised about.

[psahx]

LOL

So what, they got set up some mining farm for themselves, with some dragon miners... Did they ship the pre-orders to the Russian customers? Did they ship the test unit to Dogie? Anyone with enough money can open a mining farm in Shenzhen...

Effin' ridiculous...

They are not dragon miners.

They also said in the first post of this thread that they will be building a massive datacenter. Not sure what you are surprised about.

If you would have quoted my whole post, you could "maybe" understood, why am I? The point is not about them having the dragon miners or other avalon clones. Try to answer the questions above, maybe it will enlighten you a bit.

You are ridiculously pathetic, with your sick logic. Do not want to debate with you anything, anymore.

Sorry

[jimmothy]

If you would have quoted my whole post, you could "maybe" understood, why am I? The point is not about them having the dragon miners or other avalon clones. Try to answer the questions above, maybe it will enlighten you a bit.

You are ridiculously pathetic, with your sick logic. Do not want to debate with you anything, anymore.

Sorry

If you don't want to debate then you shouldn't have made such ridiculous unfounded claims.

It's painfully obvious that they are using AM chips and not avalons or a1s. You can look at the photos and see that each board has 20 chips and there are 10 boards. I'm pretty sure avalon chips cannot do 10GH per chip and they are definitely not capable of below 1w/gh considering they are 0.9w/gh at the chip level while overclocked.

Please tell me why they would buy a large batch of AM chips, then proceed to make avalon/a1 miners? That makes no sense.

I can't answer your question as to why they haven't shipped miners because I don't speak for xbtec but there are a number of reasons that could explain it.

If their miners are functional I see no reason for them to not ship/sell them.

[psahx]

Definitely you can see the reason why you have lost your bet, do you?

I do not care if it is Avalon, AM or BFL. That's not the point. CONTEXT, jimmothy, CONTEXT.

[tzortz]

Jim, you have to admit that you have lost.

There is no update from them for the last month already.
There is no sample for dogie , as  psahx said also.

Your pictures do not prove anything.

[dogie]

LOL

So what, they got set up some mining farm for themselves, with some dragon miners... Did they ship the pre-orders to the Russian customers? Did they ship the test unit to Dogie? Anyone with enough money can open a mining farm in Shenzhen...

Effin' ridiculous...

No they didn't, not heard from them in a while.

[minerpumpkin]

LOL

So what, they got set up some mining farm for themselves, with some dragon miners... Did they ship the pre-orders to the Russian customers? Did they ship the test unit to Dogie? Anyone with enough money can open a mining farm in Shenzhen...

Effin' ridiculous...

No they didn't, not heard from them in a while.

No data center they build can bring this giant waving red flag down.

[hdbuck]

LOL

So what, they got set up some mining farm for themselves, with some dragon miners... Did they ship the pre-orders to the Russian customers? Did they ship the test unit to Dogie? Anyone with enough money can open a mining farm in Shenzhen...

Effin' ridiculous...

No they didn't, not heard from them in a while.

No data center they build can bring this giant waving red flag down.

Oh come on cut them some slack. Peolpe seems quite impatient these days, stop acting like lil stubborn kids. Miners shall come when they ready.

[minerpumpkin]

Oh come on cut them some slack. Peolpe seems quite impatient these days, stop acting like lil stubborn kids. Miners shall come when they ready.

I don't care. It isn't like miners lose about 20% of their profitability every 12 days or so... They're now over a month late for the initial miners, that means they are now worth half of what they were when they should have launched. 

[tzortz]

And if they will finally release anything...

They have stopped responding for a long now.

[hdbuck]

And if they will finally release anything...

They have stopped responding for a long now.

its a tough business. they'll respond when they finally have something to sell. now it seems they are busy. no need to post each day about the color of the socks they are wearing. need to get the sh*t done.

PS: i dont care too im not mining anymore but i'm just amazed by such scrutiny and pression around here. you still can buy BE200-based miners through BTC-Garden or Rockminer. otherwise, its summer, enjoy, go to teh beach.

[psahx]

PS: i dont care too im not mining anymore but i'm just amazed by such scrutiny and pression around here. you still can buy BE200-based miners through BTC-Garden or Rockminer. otherwise, its summer, enjoy, go to teh beach.

You don't get it. This is not about whether XBTec is a scam or not (which is pretty much obvious to me, but everybody has a right to have his own opinion, and to believe whatever they like to).

This is about a lost bet, that one party is not willing to accept. Jimmothy will shill everywhere he finds some mention about AM, regardless of the fact, if the company could be a scam or not. There are several decent companies, producing miners based on AM chips. Take BTCGarden or Rockminer for instance, they produce fair hardware and give a good customer service, IMO. Nobody is calling them scam, liars or dishonest.

Jimmothys behavior is lead by his own greed (because he has invested in AM and wants more dividends) and can bring no good to the community. Some noobs could fall to this, and get disapointed in Bitcoin mining, even before getting involved.

Again, it can be XBTec, SHcorp or whatever name you can come up with. When they do not do what they state they will, they hide behind numerous lies and they have a lack of communication, then it is reasonable and beyond to question their credibility.

Tzortz did that, and got involved into a bet with jimmothy. Now, when (I will repeat myself here), it is more than obvious, that the bet is won by Tzortz, jimmothy will not accept, cause as he thinks, this will lead to less sales of the AM chips, thus making his nonexistent dividends less.

It is a shame, a big one, actually. To not pay a lost bet, is the worst thing a decent man can do. But, again, this is just my opinion. You are free to agree or deny. Hope I could bring enough reasonable explanation, to end this once and for all.

[hdbuck]

i dont recall XBTech has actually scammed anyone. they may havent met their initial schedule, but again do you see anyone here complaining about being ripped off by them, BFL style? nope. no scammer here, just a slightly overconfident manufacturer.

As for the bet, me no care

[psahx]

i dont recall XBTech has actually scammed anyone. they may havent met their initial schedule, but again do you see anyone here complaining about being ripped off by them, BFL style? nope. no scammer here, just a slightly overconfident manufacturer.

As for the bet, me no care

Ask the Russian guys, who had pre-ordered their initial 3 batches... Did they get their miners? I do not think so.

[jimmothy]

You don't get it. This is not about whether XBTec is a scam or not (which is pretty much obvious to me, but everybody has a right to have his own opinion, and to believe whatever they like to).

Really? Because it looks like that is exactly what you are saying. What kind of retarded scam would refuse to take orders from anyone but russians? And limit preorders to a batch 150? Do they need scamming lessons?

This is about a lost bet, that one party is not willing to accept. Jimmothy will shill everywhere he finds some mention about AM, regardless of the fact, if the company could be a scam or not. There are several decent companies, producing miners based on AM chips. Take BTCGarden or Rockminer for instance, they produce fair hardware and give a good customer service, IMO. Nobody is calling them scam, liars or dishonest.

Jimmothys behavior is lead by his own greed (because he has invested in AM and wants more dividends) and can bring no good to the community. Some noobs could fall to this, and get disapointed in Bitcoin mining, even before getting involved.

How did I lose a bet when it has yet to be resolved? I already agreed to accept a loss if they turn out to be a scam so what's your deal?

Also please let me know when I recommended preordering from xbtec or any other manufacturer. You might notice that I'll "shill" for any company selling hardware from stock for a decent price

Tzortz did that, and got involved into a bet with jimmothy. Now, when (I will repeat myself here), it is more than obvious, that the bet is won by Tzortz, jimmothy will not accept, cause as he thinks, this will lead to less sales of the AM chips, thus making his nonexistent dividends less.

It is a shame, a big one, actually. To not pay a lost bet, is the worst thing a decent man can do. But, again, this is just my opinion. You are free to agree or deny. Hope I could bring enough reasonable explanation, to end this once and for all.

Did you take a second to actually read what you wrote? Seriously this is some grade A bullshit.

What does me not prematurely resolving a 0.1btc bet have anything to do with AM chip sales or my dividends?

The reason I made the bet was because I believed that AM chips were capable of less than 1W/gh and I was correct. If I had bet on btcgarden I would have won because their miners can do less than 1w/gh at the wall. Also allied control tested immersion cooled AM chips at 0.6w/gh at the wall so the chips are perfectly capable.

[hdbuck]

Also allied control tested immersion cooled AM chips at 0.6w/gh at the wall so the chips are perfectly capable.

wait what? source plz?

[jimmothy]

Also allied control tested immersion cooled AM chips at 0.6w/gh at the wall so the chips are perfectly capable.

wait what? source plz?

I noticed you expect each 1.2mw container to house 2PH. Does this mean that asics have been tested at 0.6w/gh?

ASICs have been tested at various efficiencies including ~0.6W/G. Better cooling also changes power consumption (some chips 33% less at 65C vs. 85C).

[psahx]

Really? Because it looks like that is exactly what you are saying. What kind of retarded scam would refuse to take orders from anyone but russians? And limit preorders to a batch 150? Do they need scamming lessons?

Says who? XBTec of course 

How did I lose a bet when it has yet to be resolved? I already agreed to accept a loss if they turn out to be a scam so what's your deal?

Also please let me know when I recommended preordering from xbtec or any other manufacturer. You might notice that I'll "shill" for any company selling hardware from stock for a decent price

If there is no miner at all, there is no performance to prove, thus you have lost. They had to send a miner for review Next Friday ^TM two months ago, already.

Did you take a second to actually read what you wrote? Seriously this is some grade A bullshit.

What does me not prematurely resolving a 0.1btc bet have anything to do with AM chip sales or my dividends?

The reason I made the bet was because I believed that AM chips were capable of less than 1W/gh and I was correct. If I had bet on btcgarden I would have won because their miners can do less than 1w/gh at the wall. Also allied control tested immersion cooled AM chips at 0.6w/gh at the wall so the chips are perfectly capable.

Let the others judge, whether I write bullshit or you do 

[hdbuck]

.7 or .8 jim wins
1 or 1.1 tzortz wins
.9 break even - or both donate .1 to seans outpost

the bet was about the product, not delivery schedule.

[psahx]

.7 or .8 jim wins
1 or 1.1 tzortz wins
.9 break even - or both donate .1 to seans outpost

the bet was about the product, not delivery schedule.

I have a feeling, you have an MPD, jimmothy 

[dogie]

.7 or .8 jim wins
1 or 1.1 tzortz wins
.9 break even - or both donate .1 to seans outpost

the bet was about the product, not delivery schedule.

That was my take on it as well. Either agree to invalidate it (draw) or wait.

[DragonDmG]

LOL

So what, they got set up some mining farm for themselves, with some dragon miners... Did they ship the pre-orders to the Russian customers? Did they ship the test unit to Dogie? Anyone with enough money can open a mining farm in Shenzhen...

Effin' ridiculous...

my preorder was on 31 june, i still waiting my miner, but they send me once a week or 10 days about 0.4 btc... last time it was 20 july...

ps: sorry for bad english...

[psahx]

my preorder was on 31 june, i still waiting my miner, but they send me once a week or 10 days about 0.4 btc... last time it was 20 july...

ps: sorry for bad english...

Thank you very much for your input! Could you please give us more detail, like how many units you have pre-ordered, how much did you paid and what is your total estimated hashrate? Also please provide the total BTC amount they have sent you since June 31.

Thank you!

P.S. Do not worry about your English. You write better, than 90% of bitcointalk 

[minerpumpkin]

LOL

So what, they got set up some mining farm for themselves, with some dragon miners... Did they ship the pre-orders to the Russian customers? Did they ship the test unit to Dogie? Anyone with enough money can open a mining farm in Shenzhen...

Effin' ridiculous...

my preorder was on 31 june, i still waiting my miner, but they send me once a week or 10 days about 0.4 btc... last time it was 20 july...

ps: sorry for bad english...

That really is interesting to hear! So they are still trying to get everything go nicely. Keep in mind, this could be stalling technique though, to keep your hopes up. I'm not implying anything and they may be totally legit, but we've seen this before!

[XBTec]

Finally, 450 devices in stock. Today price is 1230$
Hash rate is ~1,25 Th/s

Contact us: +86-13244886411

[jimmothy]

Finally, 450 devices in stock. Today price is 1230$
Hash rate is ~1,25 Th/s

Contact us: +86-13244886411

Proof, please.

Videos of hashing, hash rates, power draw, etc etc.

+1

Also have you shipped your preorders?

And are you still going to send dogie a unit to review?

[XBTec]

Deep night now in China,
I wanna make video tomorrow daytime.
We prepare 1 device for Dogie already.
If somebody in Shenzhen right now, can see and check working device.

[Biodom]

Deep night now in China,
I wanna make video tomorrow daytime.
We prepare 1 device for Dogie already.
If somebody in Shenzhen right now, can see and check working device.

i don't see anything like this (1.25TH) on the website-there is still pacific2000 rated at 2Th.

[tzortz]

We still have no specs.

[DragonDmG]

less than 1 hour ago, i receive e-mail from xbtec where they write, that on 11 august they will have asic 2.7 th... and they won't pay any btc anymore, 0.7th will be bonus...

[shahadil]

How are you accepting payment?
How are you shipping your product?
Can it be personally picked up from hong kong?
What price are you declaring on invoice for customs?
When will you ship the product?

[XBTec]

[XBTec]

How are you accepting payment?
How are you shipping your product?
Can it be personally picked up from hong kong?
What price are you declaring on invoice for customs?
When will you ship the product?

1. BTC, Paypal+6%, Banking transfer to our company account
2. FedEx, UPS, DHL
3. You can personally pick up from Shenzhen. You just need cross China border
4. We still thinking about it
5. From today we are ready to send

[dogie]

Also received a PM from Lord Friedcat explaining the situation. Specifics are under NDA, but tldr miners are here.

[hdbuck]

Also received a PM from Lord Friedcat explaining the situation. Specifics are under NDA, but tldr miners are here.

hum you mean FC about to send you another miner for overview?

[Beastlymac]

Also received a PM from Lord Friedcat explaining the situation. Specifics are under NDA, but tldr miners are here.

hum you mean FC about to send you another miner for overview?

No he means that causes for delay where because of issues that arose between XBTec and Friedcat. These issues can not be released because if NDA.

[BitcoinPappi]

less than 1 hour ago, i receive e-mail from xbtec where they write, that on 11 august they will have asic 2.7 th... and they won't pay any btc anymore, 0.7th will be bonus...

 XBTec,

1. Is the above true with regards to the 2.7 th/s asic ? If so what is the estimated power consumption
2.When will the miner that hashes at 1.25 Th/s be shipped out if ordered today ?
3.Your Twitter says 1200 watt PSU included but your post says $1600 watt PSU. Which is it ?

[XBTec]

less than 1 hour ago, i receive e-mail from xbtec where they write, that on 11 august they will have asic 2.7 th... and they won't pay any btc anymore, 0.7th will be bonus...

 XBTec,

1. Is the above true with regards to the 2.7 th/s asic ? If so what is the estimated power consumption
2.When will the miner that hashes at 1.25 Th/s be shipped out if ordered today ?
3.Your Twitter says 1200 watt PSU included but your post says $1600 watt PSU. Which is it ?

1. No single asic 2.7Th/s. It means 2.7Th equal  2 devices.
2. If order tonight, we able to send tomorrow morning.
3. PSU maximum is 1600 Watt, but power consumption about 1200 Watt.

[XBTec]

http://youtu.be/y9IM5jfQC-o

[BitcoinPappi]

less than 1 hour ago, i receive e-mail from xbtec where they write, that on 11 august they will have asic 2.7 th... and they won't pay any btc anymore, 0.7th will be bonus...

 XBTec,

1. Is the above true with regards to the 2.7 th/s asic ? If so what is the estimated power consumption
2.When will the miner that hashes at 1.25 Th/s be shipped out if ordered today ?
3.Your Twitter says 1200 watt PSU included but your post says $1600 watt PSU. Which is it ?

1. No single asic 2.7Th/s. It means 2.7Th equal  2 devices.
2. If order tonight, we able to send tomorrow morning.
3. PSU maximum is 1600 Watt, but power consumption about 1200 Watt.

Thanks. Final question

1.I assume these are stand-a-lone . No PC required
2.Does it come with a web interface ? How are the network and pool settings configured ?

[tzortz]

3. PSU maximum is 1600 Watt, but power consumption about 1200 Watt.

Let's see what we have here.....

[XBTec]

Thanks. Final question

1.I assume these are stand-a-lone . No PC required
2.Does it come with a web interface ? How are the network and pool settings configured ?

1. Yes, stand alone, no PC required.
2. Setting up through web interface.

[ducmami]

good price. but dose it include shipping fee?

[BitcoinPappi]

good price. but dose it include shipping fee?

That will make or break the deal. OP should have a answer soon

[shahadil]

How are you accepting payment?
How are you shipping your product?
Can it be personally picked up from hong kong?
What price are you declaring on invoice for customs?
When will you ship the product?

1. BTC, Paypal+6%, Banking transfer to our company account
2. FedEx, UPS, DHL
3. You can personally pick up from Shenzhen. You just need cross China border
4. We still thinking about it
5. From today we are ready to send

okay thanks a lot for the info. now how do we order this product. this page http://www.xbtec.io/products lists no products under it. is there some other way to order your product. plus as someone else asked is the cost all inclusive of shipping and to all destinations?

[XBTec]

Shipping cost doesn't included. Tomorrow we will calculate shipping cost to main regions.
For instance, shipping cost of one device to UK by DHL is 153$

[ducmami]

1. BTC, Paypal+6%, Banking transfer to our company account
2. FedEx, UPS, DHL
3. You can personally pick up from Shenzhen. You just need cross China border
4. We still thinking about it
5. From today we are ready to send

4. Low price on invoice for low tax
- Is there information about manufacture, origin of goods, specs... on miner? if it do not have these infos, customs in my country will reject it

[XBTec]

1. BTC, Paypal+6%, Banking transfer to our company account
2. FedEx, UPS, DHL
3. You can personally pick up from Shenzhen. You just need cross China border
4. We still thinking about it
5. From today we are ready to send

4. Low price on invoice for low tax
- Is there information about manufacture, origin of goods, specs... on miner? if it do not have these infos, customs in my country will reject it

Of course we understand purposes of that. Information about manufacturer, specs, and place of origin accompanied with device.

[zyberguy]

Send you PM for more information

[Biodom]

Updating the web page would be beneficial. As of now, basically no info re warranty, interface, etc., etc.
If I buy, what exactly I am buying and on what conditions?

[zyberguy]

Updating the web page would be beneficial. As of now, basically no info re warranty, interface, etc., etc.
If I buy, what exactly I am buying and on what conditions?

Agree with you. Their website is still feature 2Th miner but no more information for this 1.2 Th

[XBTec]

Updating the web page would be beneficial. As of now, basically no info re warranty, interface, etc., etc.
If I buy, what exactly I am buying and on what conditions?

Warranty for PCB boards is 1 month. Warranty for PSU 1 year.
If PCB board(s) doesn't work or work unstable customer should to sent to us wrong item.
Customer pays shipping cost of wrong board(s) to repair center.
XBTec pays shipping cost of new PCB board(s) to customer.

We are testing all devices before sending.

[zyberguy]

Updating the web page would be beneficial. As of now, basically no info re warranty, interface, etc., etc.
If I buy, what exactly I am buying and on what conditions?

Warranty for PCB boards is 1 month. Warranty for PSU 1 year.
If PCB board(s) doesn't work or work unstable customer should to sent to us wrong item.
Customer pays shipping cost of wrong board(s) to repair center.
XBTec pays shipping cost of new PCB board(s) to customer.

We are testing all devices before sending.

How about my PM?

[XBTec]

How about my PM?

Check your inbox.

[DebitMe]

Is there a reasonable explanation as to why customers who ordered with Black Arrow (and claim to have only used the email address for their order), are getting advertisement emails sent to them from XBtec?

[psahx]

Has anyone else just got email spam about an XBTec PACIFIC V2 machine to an email address they've only used at blackarrow? I'm wondering if they've sold/passed-on their customer/victim database to someone else, or had it exploited?

Yep, same here. Email address used only for the Black Arrow order, nowhere else. The bulk mailing has been sent via MailChimp, there's an abuse report address in the email header.

Whois search indicates it's owned by Artem Solodkiy. First registered 16th May 2014, yet the About page reckons they were founded in 2012.

The Pacific 1250 even uses the same PSU as the Prospero X3.
Rear of Pacific 1250


Rear of Prospero X3


X3 PSU (model AP188)


Looks to me like Black Arrow is getting ready to jump ship and start scamming under a new name (seeing as the BA name will be forever mud it's the logical thing to do). In any case XBTec have obtained email addresses without permission, which gives you some idea of how trustworthy they are. Scammer or spammer, you decide.

PACIFIC V2
The Best Miner Available Today
XBTec* unveils a 1.57TH/s compact bitcoin miner with the fastest ROI for a period of less than 3 months, for the price $1399! The power consumption is only 0.8W per GH, which is the most effective solution available today.
 
In development of this miner many shortcomings of previous miners were taken into consideration. In order to achieve such performance with such sizes and power consumption, we had to overcome multiple complex technical problems. Here are some photos of our first model PACIFIC 1250 which is available in stock:
 
XBTec PACIFIC V2 is a joint product of Chinese and Russian engineers. Today it is the most competitive bitcoin miner in terms of price, power consumption and size. Our engineers have optimized the architecture of the PCB board. While developing the miner, we took into account how important it is for the users that the hardware does not emit excessive noise. Indeed, many people use these devices at home, where unnecessary noise is undesirable.

The PCB boards and aluminum cases are ready now! The miners will be shipped on August 31st. We have a special offer on the pre-orders: just use this promotion code kdie8-rjdy2-274jf-3lroe and get $100 extra discount (valid for the first 100 orders only).
 
Moreover, XBTec is preparing to bring a cloud mining solution into the market. The capacity of the data center will be 1 Petahash.
 
*The company’s headquarters is located in Hong Kong. Its developers are based in Moscow and Shenzhen. Factory is located in Shenzhen.

[OgNasty]

Is there a reasonable explanation as to why customers who ordered with Black Arrow (and claim to have only used the email address for their order), are getting advertisement emails sent to them from XBtec?

+1

I received the advertising email and want to know your relationship with Black Arrow as well as how you got their customer email list.

[hdbuck]

one thing i also dont get is why ROCKMINER did not mentioned Xbtec in their latest update:

So far as we know, there are only 3 miner producers who used AM Gen.3 chips and developed own hardware and software solutions then put into massive production: BTCGarden, Hashratio(ZhaoDong team) and our ROCKMINER. Among these three, only us is completely new entrant. BTCGarden has been set up from the first half of last year, they even successfully taped out a type of 130nm chip and completed massive production. Hashratio had been in secret development and successfully taped out a 55nm chip. Although the chips hasn't been massive produced into miners by multiple reasons, they still accumulated precious experience. Plus technical giant Kevin Pan worked for them before, it was not surprising that Hashratio was the first one who had solution and done massive production.

[dogie]

one thing i also dont get is why ROCKMINER did not mentioned Xbtec in their latest update:

So far as we know, there are only 3 miner producers who used AM Gen.3 chips and developed own hardware and software solutions then put into massive production: BTCGarden, Hashratio(ZhaoDong team) and our ROCKMINER. Among these three, only us is completely new entrant. BTCGarden has been set up from the first half of last year, they even successfully taped out a type of 130nm chip and completed massive production. Hashratio had been in secret development and successfully taped out a 55nm chip. Although the chips hasn't been massive produced into miners by multiple reasons, they still accumulated precious experience. Plus technical giant Kevin Pan worked for them before, it was not surprising that Hashratio was the first one who had solution and done massive production.

There were NDAs surrounding XBTec, Friedcat has confirmed their legitimacy. My unit will be arriving tomorrow (along with others), I'll do my best to turn it around ASAP.

[bobsag3]

The case is not the same as the X3, but it is the X3 PSU. The factory that produces it is now selling it to other parties.

[XBTec]

Let me explain the talks about Blackarrow software email database.

1. We have tried to work as the resellers of Black Arrow in Russia but rapidly understood that they won`t produce their hardware on time and stopped all the relations.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/reseller-status-of-xbtek-has-been-canceled.html

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

Sorry for inconvenience.

[urbanBTC]

Let me explain the talks about Blackarrow software email database.

1. We have tried to work as the resellers of Black Arrow in Russia but rapidly understood that they won`t produce their hardware on time and stopped all the relations.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/reseller-status-of-xbtek-has-been-canceled.html

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

Sorry for inconvenience.

Very unethicals buts this will prove if Dogies opinions can be bought by a unit on his review.  I sees this as problems.

Need more infos when was email boughts.  It look like you must be still with BA on somes level with emails just going out.  Fishy.

[btmtb]

Let me explain the talks about Blackarrow software email database.

1. We have tried to work as the resellers of Black Arrow in Russia but rapidly understood that they won`t produce their hardware on time and stopped all the relations.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/reseller-status-of-xbtek-has-been-canceled.html

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

Sorry for inconvenience.

Please be aware that Black Arrow Software DO NOT have the rights to sell this information. Their victim list should be confidential. Even their owns terms and conditions state this. I'm not sure what the personal data laws are there, but we'll be finding out pretty quickly.

They're in serious breach of their own terms and conditions, along with the data protection laws of most civilised country's:

"Personal Data
14.1 Personal data provided to Us within the framework of an order for Products will be recorded and processed by Us and may also be transferred to the third party providers (such as hosting providers or payment processing providers) for the execution of the order for Products. The Purchaser hereby consents to such processing of personal data. We are the personal data controller for the personal data that We process. We shall take appropriate technical and organizational measures to protect the Purchasers personal data. You at any time contact Us to receive more information about Our processing of your personal data and to correct any inaccurate personal information.

Do we disclose any information to outside parties?
We do not sell, trade, or otherwise transfer to outside parties your personally identifiable information. This does not include trusted third parties who assist us in operating our website, conducting our business, or servicing you, so long as those parties agree to keep this information confidential. We may also release your information when we believe release is appropriate to comply with the law, enforce our site policies, or protect ours or others rights, property, or safety. However, non-personally identifiable visitor information may be provided to other parties for marketing, advertising, or other uses."

Let's be clear, this company have no get-out under the 'conducting our business or servicing you' as this applies to the execution of the specific trade in question that establishes the relationship, such as releasing addresses to the delivery company (DHL/UPS etc) and payment processors for the transactions.

[ducmami]

Really shjt.
I get an email from xbtec today, i remember that i did't email or signup anything with xbtec. just send PM in forum

[tzortz]

This is no good.

[itod]

XBTec has ASICMiner's chips inside, you can see on their site photos of the miner insides. Also, Friedcat confirmed that ASICMiner whole-sold chips to them to manufacture miners, so on that side they are covered. Don't know what got into Black Arrow purchasers to think they have anything to do with Black Arrow, the fact Black Arrow sold they customers database to other manufacturers speaks enough that they are cash-hungry and ready for everything.

[btmtb]

XBTec has ASICMiner's chips inside, you can see on their site photos of the miner insides. Also, Friedcat confirmed that ASICMiner whole-sold chips to them to manufacture miners, so on that side they are covered. Don't know what got into Black Arrow purchasers to think they have anything to do with Black Arrow, the fact Black Arrow sold they customers database to other manufacturers speaks enough that they are cash-hungry and ready for everything.

I don't personally think they're the same company. But selling your customer contact info in breach of your own ToS is very shady, so it seems people were thinking it might have been an 'internal transfer', and using the fact that the PSU is identical to that BA said they had custom developed as further evidence. I can understand them licensing their PSU design, but I'm absolutely 100% NOT on-board with them disclosing personal info.

[bobsag3]

Let me explain the talks about Blackarrow software email database.

1. We have tried to work as the resellers of Black Arrow in Russia but rapidly understood that they won`t produce their hardware on time and stopped all the relations.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/reseller-status-of-xbtek-has-been-canceled.html

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

Sorry for inconvenience.

You did not purchase the Database from Black Arrow, as I have confirmed with them. Even as such, you will be hearing from my corporate attorneys in regards to illegally obtaining customer information.

[56k]

Let me explain the talks about Blackarrow software email database.

1. We have tried to work as the resellers of Black Arrow in Russia but rapidly understood that they won`t produce their hardware on time and stopped all the relations.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/reseller-status-of-xbtek-has-been-canceled.html

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

Sorry for inconvenience.

You did not purchase the Database from Black Arrow, as I have confirmed with them. Even as such, you will be hearing from my corporate attorneys in regards to illegally obtaining customer information.

For the person who stated they didn't understand where the link was made with BA & XBtec they had a business agreement at one time XBtec was a reseller then it did'nt happen go back and follow the timeline .

As to MS statement on the database I'm mite be inclined to agree but at this point BA has not exactly been above board also so someone is to put it flat out LIEING . There is a link between these 2 companies if it is mutual or fraud based is the question either one stole from the other and is still doing so and the other is to incompetent to realize this or this was always the plan . Goodluck sorting it out ,but could one of you please GIVE ME MY DAMN ORDER its been over half a year now.

[dogie]

Let me explain the talks about Blackarrow software email database.

1. We have tried to work as the resellers of Black Arrow in Russia but rapidly understood that they won`t produce their hardware on time and stopped all the relations.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/reseller-status-of-xbtek-has-been-canceled.html

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

Sorry for inconvenience.

You did not purchase the Database from Black Arrow, as I have confirmed with them. Even as such, you will be hearing from my corporate attorneys in regards to illegally obtaining customer information.

How do you propose they got an exact copy of BA's customer database?

[bobsag3]

Let me explain the talks about Blackarrow software email database.

1. We have tried to work as the resellers of Black Arrow in Russia but rapidly understood that they won`t produce their hardware on time and stopped all the relations.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/reseller-status-of-xbtek-has-been-canceled.html

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

Sorry for inconvenience.

You did not purchase the Database from Black Arrow, as I have confirmed with them. Even as such, you will be hearing from my corporate attorneys in regards to illegally obtaining customer information.

How do you propose they got an exact copy of BA's customer database?

Probably took it while they were still under contract as resellers. Either way, I will be pursuing all the parties involved to the fullest extent of the law.

[itod]

Goodluck sorting it out ,but could one of you please GIVE ME MY DAMN ORDER its been over half a year now.

Could you please stop trolling in this thread, go to a Black Arrow thread and there demand whatever you feel you deserve. I'm genuinely interested in what XBTec has to offer, but I'm getting bored reading Black Arrow nonsense here instead of some useful info.

[jimmothy]

Probably took it while they were still under contract as resellers. Either way, I will be pursuing all the parties involved to the fullest extent of the law.

Seems like a massive waste of your time.

The way I see it is either BA did sell them the list and lied to you about it (which would be typical of BA) or they had an insecure DB which was compromised.

Either way, why don't you instead persue BA for scamming your customers out of thousands?

I find it a bit strange/suspicious that BA can pull all kinds of shit and you let it fly but as soon as xbtec sends out a mass email you demand justice.

[56k]

Goodluck sorting it out ,but could one of you please GIVE ME MY DAMN ORDER its been over half a year now.

Could you please stop trolling in this thread, go to a Black Arrow thread and there demand whatever you feel you deserve. I'm genuinely interested in what XBTec has to offer, but I'm getting bored reading Black Arrow nonsense here instead of some useful info.

I'll send you a jar of lube that will be usefull for you in the very near future .

[Stedsm]

Let me explain the talks about Blackarrow software email database.

1. We have tried to work as the resellers of Black Arrow in Russia but rapidly understood that they won`t produce their hardware on time and stopped all the relations.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/reseller-status-of-xbtek-has-been-canceled.html

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

Sorry for inconvenience.

You did not purchase the Database from Black Arrow, as I have confirmed with them. Even as such, you will be hearing from my corporate attorneys in regards to illegally obtaining customer information.

How do you propose they got an exact copy of BA's customer database?

Probably took it while they were still under contract as resellers. Either way, I will be pursuing all the parties involved to the fullest extent of the law.

if they DID buy it they should be able to produce some sort of proof of that,no?

[Biodom]

Let me explain the talks about Blackarrow software email database.

1. We have tried to work as the resellers of Black Arrow in Russia but rapidly understood that they won`t produce their hardware on time and stopped all the relations.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/reseller-status-of-xbtek-has-been-canceled.html

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

Sorry for inconvenience.

You did not purchase the Database from Black Arrow, as I have confirmed with them. Even as such, you will be hearing from my corporate attorneys in regards to illegally obtaining customer information.

How do you propose they got an exact copy of BA's customer database?

Probably took it while they were still under contract as resellers. Either way, I will be pursuing all the parties involved to the fullest extent of the law.

if they DID buy it they should be able to produce some sort of proof of that,no?

who gives a hoot where they got the list? It is not relevant for anyone except bobsag3, who is a BA distributor and therefore might care.

[jimmothy]

who gives a hoot where they got the list? It is not relevant for anyone except bobsag3, who is a BA distributor and therefore might care.

I'm a minersource customer and I've received no email so it must have been only BA's database. I think bobsag should be demanding BA explain how their customers information was leaked/sold/stolen.

[XBTec]

who gives a hoot where they got the list? It is not relevant for anyone except bobsag3, who is a BA distributor and therefore might care.

I'm a minersource customer and I've received no email so it must have been only BA's database. I think bobsag should be demanding BA explain how their customers information was leaked/sold/stolen.

Not stolen. Sold.

[DebitMe]

who gives a hoot where they got the list? It is not relevant for anyone except bobsag3, who is a BA distributor and therefore might care.

I'm a minersource customer and I've received no email so it must have been only BA's database. I think bobsag should be demanding BA explain how their customers information was leaked/sold/stolen.

Not stolen. Sold.

Could you please provide some proof that this is the case?  It seems BA has told Bobsag that the list was stolen and you are saying otherwise.  I am not blaming you by any means at this point (and BA's track record would suggest that it was sold and they are again lying), please know that, but any information that you can provide would be helpful to figure this out.

[btmtb]

who gives a hoot where they got the list? It is not relevant for anyone except bobsag3, who is a BA distributor and therefore might care.

I'm a minersource customer and I've received no email so it must have been only BA's database. I think bobsag should be demanding BA explain how their customers information was leaked/sold/stolen.

Not stolen. Sold.

Could you please provide some proof that this is the case?  It seems BA has told Bobsag that the list was stolen and you are saying otherwise.  I am not blaming you by any means at this point (and BA's track record would suggest that it was sold and they are again lying), please know that, but any information that you can provide would be helpful to figure this out.

I second this request, can you demonstrate some papertrail, should be an easy thing to prove? Cheers.

[Stedsm]

[/quote]

who gives a hoot where they got the list? It is not relevant for anyone except bobsag3, who is a BA distributor and therefore might care.
[/quote]

I do,I'm also a BA customer and was told in the T&C that this would not happen!

[DebitMe]

who gives a hoot where they got the list? It is not relevant for anyone except bobsag3, who is a BA distributor and therefore might care.

I do,I'm also a BA customer and was told in the T&C that this would not happen!

Plus, if they are selling email addresses, who is to say that they aren't selling names, addresses, credit card numbers, date of birth, etc...

This is a real safety concern for individuals who have ordered through them.

[Biodom]

who gives a hoot where they got the list? It is not relevant for anyone except bobsag3, who is a BA distributor and therefore might care.

I'm a minersource customer and I've received no email so it must have been only BA's database. I think bobsag should be demanding BA explain how their customers information was leaked/sold/stolen.

Not stolen. Sold.

Could you please provide some proof that this is the case?  It seems BA has told Bobsag that the list was stolen and you are saying otherwise.  I am not blaming you by any means at this point (and BA's track record would suggest that it was sold and they are again lying), please know that, but any information that you can provide would be helpful to figure this out.

I second this request, can you demonstrate some papertrail, should be an easy thing to prove? Cheers.

to me it is 100 times more important that company does not bombard me with their stupid ad mail, even if I bought from it ONCE or give them my email
examples of such abuse:
rakuten-closer to the worst
ebay-the worst
microcenter
amazon
Facebook-this one is going to junk email account anyway

everyday I have to manually delete fifty or more emails in my email account(s)
If I have gotten the XBTec email, I would probably not even noticed it among the other junk and deleted it.

[hdbuck]

who gives a hoot where they got the list? It is not relevant for anyone except bobsag3, who is a BA distributor and therefore might care.

I do,I'm also a BA customer and was told in the T&C that this would not happen!

yea like if BA was trustworthy. such track records, many customers happy. 

[jimmothy]

Plus, if they are selling email addresses, who is to say that they aren't selling names, addresses, credit card numbers, date of birth, etc...

This is a real safety concern for individuals who have ordered through them.

Are you suggesting CardReaderFactory could be intentionally helping people illegally obtain personal information? Those upstanding individuals would never do something like that.

[XBTec]

Could you please provide some proof that this is the case?  It seems BA has told Bobsag that the list was stolen and you are saying otherwise.  I am not blaming you by any means at this point (and BA's track record would suggest that it was sold and they are again lying), please know that, but any information that you can provide would be helpful to figure this out.

It was a private deal and we do not want to compromise anyone. It is better to ask BA.
We protect and respect the privacy of our clients.

[dogie]

who gives a hoot where they got the list? It is not relevant for anyone except bobsag3, who is a BA distributor and therefore might care.

I'm a minersource customer and I've received no email so it must have been only BA's database. I think bobsag should be demanding BA explain how their customers information was leaked/sold/stolen.

Not stolen. Sold.

Could you please provide some proof that this is the case?  It seems BA has told Bobsag that the list was stolen and you are saying otherwise.  I am not blaming you by any means at this point (and BA's track record would suggest that it was sold and they are again lying), please know that, but any information that you can provide would be helpful to figure this out.

You can skype me an invoice, I won't reveal it to the other party but will confirm its existence.

[btmtb]

Could you please provide some proof that this is the case?  It seems BA has told Bobsag that the list was stolen and you are saying otherwise.  I am not blaming you by any means at this point (and BA's track record would suggest that it was sold and they are again lying), please know that, but any information that you can provide would be helpful to figure this out.

It was a private deal and we do not want to compromise anyone. It is better to ask BA.
We protect and respect the privacy of our clients.

Excuse my directness, but in the face of these conflicting stories, that's total bullshit. You should have some emails or paper trail that you could demonstrate this transaction with which does not involve exposing any personal information. BAS are effectively saying you're scamming us with your version of events, so educate us otherwise.

You emailed me, unsolicited, to a traceable address that you did not have consent to, so the onus is on you to demonstrate why you believed this was an acceptable course of action.

[DebitMe]

Could you please provide some proof that this is the case?  It seems BA has told Bobsag that the list was stolen and you are saying otherwise.  I am not blaming you by any means at this point (and BA's track record would suggest that it was sold and they are again lying), please know that, but any information that you can provide would be helpful to figure this out.

It was a private deal and we do not want to compromise anyone. It is better to ask BA.
We protect and respect the privacy of our clients.

BA doesn't seem to mind as they are calling it a theft and Bobsag3 is now pursuing legal action against you for theft, I would think now would be the optimal time to save face before this spirals too far out of control, and you get brought down in a legal/bad press tornado.  Also BA doesn't really care about the privacy of their clients as you claim they sell them to third parties, so it really is past protecting and respecting clients.

Personally if you are using AM chips, I don't want you to go down as I own their stock, so I am rooting for you here, but you got to give us something to work with and unfortunately saying it was private and not releasing any info doesn't help your case because BA is saying you stole them.  Now someone is lying here (I still believe it is BA), but privacy concerns are being had by everyone on that list.

I like Dogie's approach about showing him and having a trusted third party verify the information, but you should also have Bobsag3 review this as well. (actually you do owe it to people whose address is on that list as they were illegally sold to you, so providing information is really a must here).  If the payment was also made in bitcoin, you should show the transaction on the blockchain as well, if it was a bank transfer then screenshots please.  There should also be email records and anything else incriminating against BA for illegally selling people's records to you/others.

Like I said, I am on your side, but you will have to show some proof of your claims and hiding behind the facet of protecting your clients won't help you unfortunately.

[blackarrow]

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

If you have our customer database it is stolen. We will now announce the police to get to the bottom of this.

[ducmami]

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

If you have our customer database it is stolen. We will now announce the police to get to the bottom of this.

pick up your phone and call 911

[hdbuck]

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

If you have our customer database it is stolen. We will now announce the police to get to the bottom of this.

pick up your phone and call 911

[bit_wizard]

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

If you have our customer database it is stolen. We will now announce the police to get to the bottom of this.

pick up your phone and call 911

  This sh!t is F*CKING HILARIOUS!

[juni0r]

I would like to know whether BA will get police to involve in this whole fisaco. If this is a case, the whole shitty mess will unfold i.e. delay in refund / scam accusaction /etc .
This whole mess is getting better and better   

[btcminer84]

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

If you have our customer database it is stolen. We will now announce the police to get to the bottom of this.

You should start shipping and GO F*CK YOURSELF! Scammer!

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

Hahahahahahaha hilarious

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

Goodluck sorting it out ,but could one of you please GIVE ME MY DAMN ORDER its been over half a year now.

Could you please stop trolling in this thread, go to a Black Arrow thread and there demand whatever you feel you deserve. I'm genuinely interested in what XBTec has to offer, but I'm getting bored reading Black Arrow nonsense here instead of some useful info.

XBTec is Black Arrow lol they stole/sold this information to/from themselves :-)
They are the same people :-)

[tzortz]

Dogie, did you get the sample miner?

Jimmothy, I still believe you have lost here.

[eXOBeX]

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

If you have our customer database it is stolen. We will now announce the police to get to the bottom of this.

Yeah, it's about time the cops paid you a visit, you scamming twats. Where's my fucking miner?

Hello,

Thank you for reporting this to MailChimp! We take spam complaints quite seriously here, and if one of our customers are sending you unsolicited emails, we definitely want to know. Based on the information provided below, we have located and currently investigating the account in question.

Please contact us if you have any other specific questions or comments that we can assist you with and have a wonderful day.

Thank you,
Chanel

Remember folks, there's an abuse report web address in the email header, the more people fill it in the more likely it is that MailChimp cancel XBTec's bulk mail account.

[ducmami]

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

If you have our customer database it is stolen. We will now announce the police to get to the bottom of this.

Yeah, it's about time the cops paid you a visit, you scamming twats. Where's my fucking miner?

Hello,

Thank you for reporting this to MailChimp! We take spam complaints quite seriously here, and if one of our customers are sending you unsolicited emails, we definitely want to know. Based on the information provided below, we have located and currently investigating the account in question.

Please contact us if you have any other specific questions or comments that we can assist you with and have a wonderful day.

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I've just report mailchimp too

[itod]

Just got this in a mailbox:
http://us3.campaign-archive2.com/?u=0f198a1ddde352901c5deb2f7&id=c884dabbb1&e=19e6f4fbfe

Since they claim "In stock", has anyone received this miner yet?  2.4 BTC is an excellent price for 1.57 TH/s, but I'm reluctant to buy until someone confirms he actually received the unit.

Edit: Just seen "Shipping date is August 31th.", bummer. Yet another presale.

Edit 2: This is claimed "In stock": http://www.xbtec.io/products/pacific-1250-1-25-thashsecond Anyone recived that?

[tzortz]

Dogie is supposed to have his sample miner by yesterday, but not any update from him.

Let us wait for a while and see.

[itod]

Dogie is supposed to have his sample miner by yesterday, but not any update from him.

Let us wait for a while and see.

Dogie probably got demo unit, I would wait for some paid customers to report delivery.

[notbatman]

I'd like to recommend this ancient Chinese formulated lubrication to all pre-order customers, it's the perfect companion to the Shenzhen Miner Fuck Machine V2.

[XBTec]

I'd like to recommend this ancient Chinese formulated lubrication to all pre-order customers, it's the perfect companion to the Shenzhen Miner Fuck Machine V2.

Dear notbatman, we will give you a free bottle of lubricant if you come to Shenzhen personally to buy our Miner Fuck Machine V2. You even can choose one that fits you better. We have enough items in stock.

[hdbuck]

Xbtec, any updates as for the immersion cooled systems?

[ChuckBuck]

Eww I'm still trying to wash my eyes from that image of Miner Shenzen Fuck Machine V2.  Once you see it, you can't unsee it...

Pretty hilarious that BA is going to call the police on itself(XBTec)!  This comedy just keeps writing itself.

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

I'd like to recommend this ancient Chinese formulated lubrication to all pre-order customers, it's the perfect companion to the Shenzhen Miner Fuck Machine V2.

Dear notbatman, we will give you a free bottle of lubricant if you come to Shenzhen personally to buy our Miner Fuck Machine V2. You even can choose one that fits you better. We have enough items in stock.

That's the type of response is very similiar to recent responses from Black Arrow.

I tell you guys, BA nad XBTec are the same people :-)

[tzortz]

You mind if you test the machine on YOU Xbtec?

You are really pathetic.

[XBTec]

Xbtec, any updates as for the immersion cooled systems?

designing in progress. when we have to show the container we will post about it

[DebitMe]

XBtec, just for reference, are you refusing to provide any information that will show that the email list you obtained from BlackArrow was sold to you?  You do realize that without further information on the matter, the logical conclusion is that you are BA, simply under a different name, in which case your ruse has already been ousted, and you will be blacklisted just as fast as BA currently is?

You also currently have the scam kings openly stating they will pursue you in court for your theft of their list, to me this is sounding like a not so well orchestrated, "battle" to make people think that you guys are not one in the same, by attacking each other.  Please post some evidence that the list was bought, otherwise it will be open season on BlackArrow V2 aka XBtec.

[btmtb]

I'm not interested in how you're specifically connected or not to BAS, but I'm VERY interested in which one of you is lying. Two conflicting stories means someone definitely is. Your position should be easiest to prove so can you please disclose some of the paper trail to validate your version of events. Thanks.

[sl0n]

I'm not interested in how you're specifically connected or not to BAS, but I'm VERY interested in which one of you is lying. Two conflicting stories means someone definitely is. Your position should be easiest to prove so can you please disclose some of the paper trail to validate your version of events. Thanks.

I`m reading this topic for a long time, but do only I understand that it is impossible to buy company`s email base in official way? Do you really think that they might have invoice or another papers? Are you joking? It`s not good to use stolen email-base, but I think it`s a problem of BA that they cannot protect their information. And my friend got the spam-email from them too, but if they really have devices in stock I would buy one after Dogie`s review.

[DebitMe]

I'm not interested in how you're specifically connected or not to BAS, but I'm VERY interested in which one of you is lying. Two conflicting stories means someone definitely is. Your position should be easiest to prove so can you please disclose some of the paper trail to validate your version of events. Thanks.

I`m reading this topic for a long time, but do only I understand that it is impossible to buy company`s email base in official way? Do you really think that they might have invoice or another papers? Are you joking? It`s not good to use stolen email-base, but I think it`s a problem of BA that they cannot protect their information. And my friend got the spam-email from them too, but if they really have devices in stock I would buy one after Dogie`s review.

Of course they don't have an invoice, and no one is suggesting that they do, but there should be email communication, instant message communication, blockchain payments, screen shots, etc...

Now, after communicating with XBtec, I am leaning towards BA again being the scum of the earth.  But not the whole organization.  It seems that a single or small group of people inside BA sold the list.  What a fucked up mess this is, I don't think XBtec is BA rebranded, they have been incredibly nice to me and have put some of my fears to rest about them stealing the list (which I no longer believe they did).  I would even be open to getting some of their products if they would ship to me first.

But, it worries me that a small group of BA employees are selling company info.  This has apparently gone unnoticed since BA seems surprised by this (but I wouldn't doubt they are acting and lying to cover up what they did).  Who else are they selling to, how much more information?  Perhaps XBtec would be open to telling us if they offered to sell any other information besides email addresses about their customers?

[btmtb]

I'm not interested in how you're specifically connected or not to BAS, but I'm VERY interested in which one of you is lying. Two conflicting stories means someone definitely is. Your position should be easiest to prove so can you please disclose some of the paper trail to validate your version of events. Thanks.

I`m reading this topic for a long time, but do only I understand that it is impossible to buy company`s email base in official way? Do you really think that they might have invoice or another papers? Are you joking? It`s not good to use stolen email-base, but I think it`s a problem of BA that they cannot protect their information. And my friend got the spam-email from them too, but if they really have devices in stock I would buy one after Dogie`s review.

Yes, only you understand this because it's wholly untrue. There are entire (legitimate/semi-legitimate/illegitimate) industry's based on doing exactly this, creating and selling databases of their contacts and customers.

But yes, the point stands, if it was a legitimate trade they would have some communication, of some form, that would prove the case. It's like fundamentals of business 101.

[dogie]

Dogie is supposed to have his sample miner by yesterday, but not any update from him.

Let us wait for a while and see.

Dogie probably got demo unit, I would wait for some paid customers to report delivery.

Testing it now, I'll probably be done Wednesday EU afternoon.

[sl0n]

Dogie is supposed to have his sample miner by yesterday, but not any update from him.

Let us wait for a while and see.

Dogie probably got demo unit, I would wait for some paid customers to report delivery.

Testing it now, I'll probably be done Wednesday EU afternoon.

Good news! This means that XBTec miners really exist

[eXOBeX]

So do Prospero X1 and X3, doesn't mean they'll be arriving any month soon.

[DARKANGEL6415]

Dogie is supposed to have his sample miner by yesterday, but not any update from him.

Let us wait for a while and see.

Dogie probably got demo unit, I would wait for some paid customers to report delivery.

Testing it now, I'll probably be done Wednesday EU afternoon.

please let us know what model you got and how is it working, heat level, noise level, power used, ease of set up all the good stuff. thanks in advance for the information and as i am writing this it is already 8-6-2014 ... 11:24PM

[dogie]

Dogie is supposed to have his sample miner by yesterday, but not any update from him.

Let us wait for a while and see.

Dogie probably got demo unit, I would wait for some paid customers to report delivery.

Testing it now, I'll probably be done Wednesday EU afternoon.

please let us know what model you got and how is it working, heat level, noise level, power used, ease of set up all the good stuff. thanks in advance for the information and as i am writing this it is already 8-6-2014 ... 11:24PM

Apologies, having some issues with the Pi (not the actual miner). Just waiting on the morning for them to email me an instruction. IRL things took longer than expected so I only emailed them about midnight. Teaser:

 

[Meech]

That's the Pacific 1250 or V2?  I want more info on the Pacific 2000 if they have it.  Good luck on your review.

[dogie]

That's the Pacific 1250 or V2?  I want more info on the Pacific 2000 if they have it.  Good luck on your review.

1250

[Collider]

There is a reason why there are nearly no big BE200 miners, and that reason is that the chip isn´t up-to-date.

Once Bitmaine releases their 0.55-0.65W/GH S4, nobody will buy miners withe BE200 anymore, unless they are heavily discounted (at which point the manufacturing of them doesn´t really turn too much profit).

It doesn´t make sense to pre-order a 0.8W/GH miner now, if you can just buy a S3 pretty much from stock....

[Meech]

Yes but why wait.  New tech will always be released just after you bought your shiny new rig.

[sl0n]

Yes but why wait.  New tech will always be released just after you bought your shiny new rig.

Because if you want to buy - you need money, but if you want just to talk - you need nothing It is very cheap 

[DARKANGEL6415]

Yes but why wait.  New tech will always be released just after you bought your shiny new rig.

Because if you want to buy - you need money, but if you want just to talk - you need nothing It is very cheap 

lol talk is cheap that was funny

[dogie]

Dogie is supposed to have his sample miner by yesterday, but not any update from him.

Let us wait for a while and see.

Dogie probably got demo unit, I would wait for some paid customers to report delivery.

Testing it now, I'll probably be done Wednesday EU afternoon.

please let us know what model you got and how is it working, heat level, noise level, power used, ease of set up all the good stuff. thanks in advance for the information and as i am writing this it is already 8-6-2014 ... 11:24PM

Apologies, having some issues with the Pi (not the actual miner). Just waiting on the morning for them to email me an instruction. IRL things took longer than expected so I only emailed them about midnight. Teaser:

So the above was what I thought - the software was the 'farm' software without a user interface. I'll have to wait until they can get the consumer interface over to me.

[tzortz]

So, still nothing...

[DARKANGEL6415]

no he is waiting as he said i am sure he will inform us when he gets the product up and running. Can't be that much longer, well i hope not lol

[dogie]

no he is waiting as he said i am sure he will inform us when he gets the product up and running. Can't be that much longer, well i hope not lol

Might be a few days, I think they're redoing the online interface or it wasn't what they wanted. The actual miner is good to go through, its just the Pi image.

[sl0n]

no he is waiting as he said i am sure he will inform us when he gets the product up and running. Can't be that much longer, well i hope not lol

Might be a few days, I think they're redoing the online interface or it wasn't what they wanted. The actual miner is good to go through, its just the Pi image.

So the miner is working, isn't it? The problem is only in web interface? Is it possible to configure it via SSH?

[Collider]

If there is "farm software" aka without a gui, why don´t you just start it via commandline arguments?

[Rabinovitch]

May be "farm software" means that mining software is running on some external controller module, and device delivered to Dogie is working just like external set of mining boards for that controller? Sorry for my English...  

[dogie]

no he is waiting as he said i am sure he will inform us when he gets the product up and running. Can't be that much longer, well i hope not lol

Might be a few days, I think they're redoing the online interface or it wasn't what they wanted. The actual miner is good to go through, its just the Pi image.

So the miner is working, isn't it? The problem is only in web interface? Is it possible to configure it via SSH?

If there is "farm software" aka without a gui, why don´t you just start it via commandline arguments?

It appears to be even more basic than that, its not even appearing as a DCHP device even though its DCHP (somehow). Its basic firmware, literally mine to x address, I can't get access to it if its not appearing to my network.

[notbatman]

dogie doesn't get to keep the BTC lol

[Georgebest]

interested with this coin
can i know whats the road map of this ?

[ChuckBuck]

So, still nothing...

So do you get to collect on your best if Dogie tests the sample unit, and it's over 1w per GH/s on the Kill a watt reading?

Been awhile since I've heard anything, whether yours and Jimmothy wager on Xbtec power efficiency was resolved.

[Meech]

no he is waiting as he said i am sure he will inform us when he gets the product up and running. Can't be that much longer, well i hope not lol

Might be a few days, I think they're redoing the online interface or it wasn't what they wanted. The actual miner is good to go through, its just the Pi image.

So the miner is working, isn't it? The problem is only in web interface? Is it possible to configure it via SSH?

If there is "farm software" aka without a gui, why don´t you just start it via commandline arguments?

It appears to be even more basic than that, its not even appearing as a DCHP device even though its DCHP (somehow). Its basic firmware, literally mine to x address, I can't get access to it if its not appearing to my network.

Isn't it true your network won't see it if the default ip of the miner isn't within your routers ip range?  ie... 192.168.1.1 compared to 192.168.2.1
Just my late night thoughts.  Anxious to see it in action.

[dogie]

So, still nothing...

So do you get to collect on your best if Dogie tests the sample unit, and it's over 1w per GH/s on the Kill a watt reading?

Been awhile since I've heard anything, whether yours and Jimmothy wager on Xbtec power efficiency was resolved.

I'll let you know after a few more hours of running, but the bet may be too close to call.

[dogie]

Right, I think we have to call the bet a no contest (draw). Depending on temperature conditions, I can make the unit do whatever outcome you want.

I can put it in 25C ambient and it will do 1.30TH @ 1250W at the wall.
I can put it in 37C ambient and it will do 1.23TH @ 1370W at the wall.
I can then put fans in turbo mode at any time and give it another 30W penalty.

tldr, it can achieve <1W/Gh, but it can also be made to go way above 1W/GH within its operating range. I don't think we're going to be able to conclude fairly on this one.

[jimmothy]

Right, I think we have to call the bet a no contest (draw). Depending on temperature conditions, I can make the unit do whatever outcome you want.

I can put it in 25C ambient and it will do 1.30TH @ 1250W at the wall.
I can put it in 37C ambient and it will do 1.23TH @ 1370W at the wall.
I can then put fans in turbo mode at any time and give it another 30W penalty.

tldr, it can achieve <1W/Gh, but it can also be made to go way above 1W/GH within its operating range. I don't think we're going to be able to conclude fairly on this one.

I'm fine with a draw or a win (tzortz can decide). Even though it is technically capable of below 1w/gh, it's only by a hair and doesn't really prove my point that these chips are capable of more. Although v2 may turn out to be more impressive at 0.8w/gh, I'm not going to wait X weeks to find out.

Shall we call it a tie and both donate 0.05 each to SO?

[hdbuck]

Right, I think we have to call the bet a no contest (draw). Depending on temperature conditions, I can make the unit do whatever outcome you want.

I can put it in 25C ambient and it will do 1.30TH @ 1250W at the wall.
I can put it in 37C ambient and it will do 1.23TH @ 1370W at the wall.
I can then put fans in turbo mode at any time and give it another 30W penalty.

tldr, it can achieve <1W/Gh, but it can also be made to go way above 1W/GH within its operating range. I don't think we're going to be able to conclude fairly on this one.

+1

PS: dogie i've been wondering, how many miners (and global hashrate) do you have running in your farm? could you share some pic of it as i am sure seing all time miners produced so far in one place should be quite amazing

[dogie]

Right, I think we have to call the bet a no contest (draw). Depending on temperature conditions, I can make the unit do whatever outcome you want.

I can put it in 25C ambient and it will do 1.30TH @ 1250W at the wall.
I can put it in 37C ambient and it will do 1.23TH @ 1370W at the wall.
I can then put fans in turbo mode at any time and give it another 30W penalty.

tldr, it can achieve <1W/Gh, but it can also be made to go way above 1W/GH within its operating range. I don't think we're going to be able to conclude fairly on this one.

+1

PS: dogie i've been wondering, how many miners (and global hashrate) do you have running in your farm? could you share some pic of it as i am sure seing all time miners produced so far in one place should be quite amazing

Not much, I turn units over reasonably quickly so I always have capacity and flexibility to control ambient as required. I keep everything I test with me residentially as a lot of it (which you don't see) is preproduction which requires a lot of babying and is a bit too risky to leave unaccompanied.

[dogie]

Dogie's comprehensive setup guide now up in super HD!

 

[hdbuck]

Right, I think we have to call the bet a no contest (draw). Depending on temperature conditions, I can make the unit do whatever outcome you want.

I can put it in 25C ambient and it will do 1.30TH @ 1250W at the wall.
I can put it in 37C ambient and it will do 1.23TH @ 1370W at the wall.
I can then put fans in turbo mode at any time and give it another 30W penalty.

tldr, it can achieve <1W/Gh, but it can also be made to go way above 1W/GH within its operating range. I don't think we're going to be able to conclude fairly on this one.

+1

PS: dogie i've been wondering, how many miners (and global hashrate) do you have running in your farm? could you share some pic of it as i am sure seing all time miners produced so far in one place should be quite amazing

Not much, I turn units over reasonably quickly so I always have capacity and flexibility to control ambient as required. I keep everything I test with me residentially as a lot of it (which you don't see) is preproduction which requires a lot of babying and is a bit too risky to leave unaccompanied.

hmm alright fair enough, but one day i sure hope you would open some sort of mining museum ^^

[dogie]

Right, I think we have to call the bet a no contest (draw). Depending on temperature conditions, I can make the unit do whatever outcome you want.

I can put it in 25C ambient and it will do 1.30TH @ 1250W at the wall.
I can put it in 37C ambient and it will do 1.23TH @ 1370W at the wall.
I can then put fans in turbo mode at any time and give it another 30W penalty.

tldr, it can achieve <1W/Gh, but it can also be made to go way above 1W/GH within its operating range. I don't think we're going to be able to conclude fairly on this one.

+1

PS: dogie i've been wondering, how many miners (and global hashrate) do you have running in your farm? could you share some pic of it as i am sure seing all time miners produced so far in one place should be quite amazing

Not much, I turn units over reasonably quickly so I always have capacity and flexibility to control ambient as required. I keep everything I test with me residentially as a lot of it (which you don't see) is preproduction which requires a lot of babying and is a bit too risky to leave unaccompanied.

hmm alright fair enough, but one day i sure hope you would open some sort of mining museum ^^

WTB 500KW mining museum

[psahx]

Right, I think we have to call the bet a no contest (draw). Depending on temperature conditions, I can make the unit do whatever outcome you want.

I can put it in 25C ambient and it will do 1.30TH @ 1250W at the wall.
I can put it in 37C ambient and it will do 1.23TH @ 1370W at the wall.
I can then put fans in turbo mode at any time and give it another 30W penalty.

tldr, it can achieve <1W/Gh, but it can also be made to go way above 1W/GH within its operating range. I don't think we're going to be able to conclude fairly on this one.

Why don't you mention about H/W error rate? This can bring your estimated 1.30TH @ 1250W at the wall to a significant lower numbers. Also, 25C^o is very uncommon for datacenters, you are looking more to 30C^o, if you will like them to be hosted.

So, please provide stats for 30C^o ambient, and real poolside accepted average hashrate.

Thank you.

[dogie]

Why don't you mention about H/W error rate? This can bring your estimated 1.30TH @ 1250W at the wall to a significant lower numbers. Also, 25C^o is very uncommon for datacenters, you are looking more to 30C^o, if you will like them to be hosted.

So, please provide stats for 30C^o ambient, and real poolside accepted average hashrate.

Thank you.

I gave you a huge temperature range and showed that its impossible to call it because you can say "oh I meant at -20C ambient" or "actually, I meant 45C ambient like it says in their specs" and you get totally different results. Results from any one specific temperature are meaningless, its too close.

Hash rates are 'real poolside accepted average hashrate'.

And yes I did just use an image from teenmomtalk, deal with it sister.

[Collider]

Actually, datacenter cold aisle temperatures are typically between 20-27°C.

It would be only fair to quote hashrate and efficiency at these values, everything above 30°C might be bitcoin-mining specific, but not datacenter standard.


With improved PCBs and slower clocking chips, I am sure the target power efficiency of ~0.8W/GH can be reached.

However, you could probably build an S4 with 0.6W/GH with this level of optimisation, so why use the AM chips?

[gallery2000]

Do we get discount if we buy 5 units?

[Collider]

Do we get discount if we buy 5 units?

I am very sure you will, especially as this is China and there is always room to negotiate.

[notbatman]

... so why use the AM chips?

Could it be that if they used the Minion their claim to be a "New" ASIC manufacturer wouldn't fly. Also, if they're using Mr friedcat's ASICs what ASIC are they manufacturing?

[notbatman]

14nm with 1024 cores, pre-order now?

[dogie]

Actually, datacenter cold aisle temperatures are typically between 20-27°C.

It would be only fair to quote hashrate and efficiency at these values, everything above 30°C might be bitcoin-mining specific, but not datacenter standard.

In a real data centre where you use AC yes, not in a bitcoin data centre where you use a metric shit tonne of air per second per cubic mm as your cubic method.

[psahx]

I gave you a huge temperature range and showed that its impossible to call it because you can say "oh I meant at -20C ambient" or "actually, I meant 45C ambient like it says in their specs" and you get totally different results. Results from any one specific temperature are meaningless, its too close.

Hash rates are 'real poolside accepted average hashrate'.

And yes I did just use an image from teenmomtalk, deal with it sister.

Oh! You bad dog! You bite without a reason! I'm a have you neutered for that!

 

[Collider]

You can get the quoted temperature in bitcoin mining facilities easily by using evaporative cooling and/or building them where it makes sense (aka Iceland, WA state, virtually anywhere in Canada, Sweden....).

I am just saying, those are the usual temperatures and it woul be only fair to quote power consumption at that temp.

[xstr8guy]

Do we get discount if we buy 5 units?

Why is anyone considering buying this inefficient, outdated trash?! That'd better be some STEEP discount.

[dogie]

Do we get discount if we buy 5 units?

Why is anyone considering buying this inefficient, outdated trash?! That'd better be some STEEP discount.

Inefficient? The entire consumer market is sitting around 1W/GH in real terms.

[Rabinovitch]

What do you think should we buy?

[dogie]

What do you think should we buy?

good price here

Don't post stuff like this even in sarcasm, it gets archived and newbies walk past and don't realise. That site is a scam.

[HarmonLi]

Ah it's a great thing seeing this bet finally settled! I think it's a nice thing if you both agree to donate the bet to Seans Outpost! It really seems like a draw, given the measurements by Dogie.
A bit disappointing that the miner is indeed not achieving 0.8w/GH/s, but it's still good to see they're delivering!

[DARKANGEL6415]

Do we get discount if we buy 5 units?

Why is anyone considering buying this inefficient, outdated trash?! That'd better be some STEEP discount.

IF you can show me something i can buy right now with my credit card or paypal " for my protection " not some pre order please show me where or send me message if you want. Thanks for the answer in advance

[XBTec]

SALE.
1000$ per Pacific 1250.
Physical stock
MOQ: 5 units

[bradli]

http://youtu.be/y9IM5jfQC-o

what about this hw ? isnt too much

[Biffa]

http://youtu.be/y9IM5jfQC-o

what about this hw ? isnt too much

Anything under 1% is pretty darn good for an ASIC

[tzortz]

Right, I think we have to call the bet a no contest (draw). Depending on temperature conditions, I can make the unit do whatever outcome you want.

I can put it in 25C ambient and it will do 1.30TH @ 1250W at the wall.
I can put it in 37C ambient and it will do 1.23TH @ 1370W at the wall.
I can then put fans in turbo mode at any time and give it another 30W penalty.

tldr, it can achieve <1W/Gh, but it can also be made to go way above 1W/GH within its operating range. I don't think we're going to be able to conclude fairly on this one.

I'm fine with a draw or a win (tzortz can decide). Even though it is technically capable of below 1w/gh, it's only by a hair and doesn't really prove my point that these chips are capable of more. Although v2 may turn out to be more impressive at 0.8w/gh, I'm not going to wait X weeks to find out.

Shall we call it a tie and both donate 0.05 each to SO?

Sorry for my late reply but I am off for a few days on vacations.

Sure we can both donate at Sean's , I will do it on Monday when I get back.

Although , that rate is so far from the Op's initial statements.
This is not 0.7w/Ghs Jimmy.

[c2m]

Hi,
did someone here - apart from Doggie's review - actually bought their PACIFIC 1250 ? If so, what is your experience so far ? Do you consider these miners a good buy @1k/miner ?
And what about their PACIFIC V2 (1.57 Ths) - did someone pre-order ? Thank you.

@dogie
Hi dogie, have you got PACIFIC V2 (1.57 Ths) from XBTec for review yet ? Thank you.

Thanks guys for your reply.

[dogie]

Hi,
did someone here - apart from Doggie's review - actually bought their PACIFIC 1250 ? If so, what is your experience so far ? Do you consider these miners a good buy @1k/miner ?
And what about their PACIFIC V2 (1.57 Ths) - did someone pre-order ? Thank you.

@dogie
Hi dogie, have you got PACIFIC V2 (1.57 Ths) from XBTec for review yet ? Thank you.

Thanks guys for your reply.

I'm sure people did buy the 1250s as the price was sensible, but no one seems to have posted. No, I've not done the V2 - I'm not sure its ready?

[DARKANGEL6415]

i myself am waiting to see what is going on with the cloud hashing aspect as well and also the 2th unit that i had seen before but cant find on web anymore

[Collider]

My guess is the available pacifics were bought by a bigger customer, hence not much chatter on here about it.

Might be mistaken though.

[DARKANGEL6415]

i really do hope that you are wrong about a " bigger customer " buying up all the miner hardware without a little fish like me not even getting 1 unit. Nothing like big fish getting the new hardware as difficulty goes up and the little fish like me get stuck with old hardware.

[XBTec]

i really do hope that you are wrong about a " bigger customer " buying up all the miner hardware without a little fish like me not even getting 1 unit. Nothing like big fish getting the new hardware as difficulty goes up and the little fish like me get stuck with old hardware.

We do not separate customers to "small-pocket" and "big-pocket". When new device will be outputted it will be opened for sale to all community.

[Collider]

In a game of who pays first, gets units first, exactly that happens.

They had hardware to sell and people bought it. Who bought it? We can only speculate.

[dogie]

In a game of who pays first, gets units first, exactly that happens.

They had hardware to sell and people bought it. Who bought it? We can only speculate.

Nono, they're saying WHEN they have hardware to sell then they won't differentiate. They haven't properly launched sales yet it seems?

[Collider]

In a game of who pays first, gets units first, exactly that happens.

They had hardware to sell and people bought it. Who bought it? We can only speculate.

Nono, they're saying WHEN they have hardware to sell then they won't differentiate. They haven't properly launched sales yet it seems?

You might have misunderstood. The only thing I referred to is he who pays first, gets units first (which is a fair system in my opinion).

The statement "exactly that happens" only referred to what was stated before the comma in that particular sentence, not the previous post.

They previously sold some 1.25TH miners.

[Betty-XBTec]

... so why use the AM chips?

Could it be that if they used the Minion their claim to be a "New" ASIC manufacturer wouldn't fly. Also, if they're using Mr friedcat's ASICs what ASIC are they manufacturing?

Hi,
Chipset: AM BE200

We manufactured two versions:
old version:PACIFIC 1250 (1.25 T)
new version:PACIFIC V2(1.57T).

Pacific V2 is improved version of Pacific 1250. 0.8W/GH.

Both Versions use AM BE200 chip.

Betty
Phone:86-137 6015 2780
Betty@XBTec.io
bettyxbtec@163.com
http://www.xbtec.io/

[Betty-XBTec]

Ah it's a great thing seeing this bet finally settled! I think it's a nice thing if you both agree to donate the bet to Seans Outpost! It really seems like a draw, given the measurements by Dogie.
A bit disappointing that the miner is indeed not achieving 0.8w/GH/s, but it's still good to see they're delivering!

Hi, We are improving our first version Pacific 1250. For new version- Pacific V2 . the power consumption will be reach less than 0.8 W/ Ghash/S. We redesigned cooling heat sink and case considering miners' power consumption and customers' shipping fee.We aim to finish the sample this week. Now welcome customers to place orders with us.

Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact us.

Betty

Phone:86-137 6015 2780
Betty@XBTec.io
bettyxbtec@163.com
http://www.xbtec.io/

[Betty-XBTec]

i myself am waiting to see what is going on with the cloud hashing aspect as well and also the 2th unit that i had seen before but cant find on web anymore

Hi,
For cloud hashing, we are trying to find cheaper electricity datacenter in other cities in China, therefore, we can help our customers to earn more profit. The electricity fee in Shenzhen is quite expensive. For our new version(Pacific V2), we will update its news soon once we finished the test.

Betty
Phone:86-137 6015 2780
Betty@XBTec.io
bettyxbtec@163.com
http://www.xbtec.io/



 

[DARKANGEL6415]

thank you for the above reply. so does that mean that the data center is not even being built yet? What are the pictures on the website of then if not the datacenter? Please keep us updated as we all know time is money when it comes to bitcoin farming and difficulty raises. 

[Betty-XBTec]

thank you for the above reply. so does that mean that the data center is not even being built yet? What are the pictures on the website of then if not the datacenter? Please keep us updated as we all know time is money when it comes to bitcoin farming and difficulty raises. 

Hi, Sorry for the misunderstanding. We did build a datasenter in Shenzhen China, all the pictures are real and all the customers are welcome to visit our factory in Shenzhen. As i said, we are trying to find another cheaper electricity data center, therefore, our customer can get more profit in the future. Hope it clears.

400 pcs PACIFIC 1250 (1.25T) are availble for selling, customers can buy from our stock.


Betty
Phone:86-137 6015 2780
Betty@XBTec.io
bettyxbtec@163.com
http://www.xbtec.io/

[RoadStress]

fuck SCAM

Elaborate please. Have you sent money?

not me, others were sent and nothing has been received so far, neither compensation nor devices
https://forum.btcsec.com/index.php?/topic/7732-2-ths-na-baze-chipov-asicminer-gen3/page-5#entry192814

sorry my english, google-translate

tzortz did you pay your bet for this scammers?

[Pentax]

Hello Xbtec

I am looking for your company registration in Hong Kong, but cannot find it.

Can you provide links to the proper documents.

Thank You.

[DARKANGEL6415]

so did this turn out to be a scam or something? I thought someone had received unit from here t otest out and all a trusted source was i wrong in assuming that? In the event they was a scam atleast had credit card protection so that atleast would be good.

[dogie]

so did this turn out to be a scam or something? I thought someone had received unit from here t otest out and all a trusted source was i wrong in assuming that? In the event they was a scam atleast had credit card protection so that atleast would be good.

Not that I know of. The russian forum someone posted to, a few had delayed orders so they received 2x the V2 orders instead (3TH). I don't see anyone with problem orders.

[DARKANGEL6415]

so did this turn out to be a scam or something? I thought someone had received unit from here t otest out and all a trusted source was i wrong in assuming that? In the event they was a scam atleast had credit card protection so that atleast would be good.

Not that I know of. The russian forum someone posted to, a few had delayed orders so they received 2x the V2 orders instead (3TH). I don't see anyone with problem orders.

Ok making sure as you can see last couple of posts above people some people are pretty much saying scam unless i read it wrong or they worded it wrong lol

[Pentax]

has anyone been able to find the registration information for this company?

what country?  who is in charge, etc.

basically an annual report or similar document.

I've asked for it from Xbtec and get nothing.

[DARKANGEL6415]

No i have not seen one but then again i am in the USA. Also i would be lying if i said i have been looking for any documents from them lol. I rarely look up anything unless it is alot of money and by alot i mean like something outside of the scope of my credit card protection from fraud lol

[Pentax]

No i have not seen one but then again i am in the USA. Also i would be lying if i said i have been looking for any documents from them lol. I rarely look up anything unless it is alot of money and by alot i mean like something outside of the scope of my credit card protection from fraud lol

Oh, I hear ya, although the CC companies can make it difficult to reverse.  All a company has to do is provide some rebuttal for a claim and the reversal can be reversed.  The process takes months and is a PITA.

I'm just curious.  This operation has no known front person, no known registration.  Nothing.  I was thinking about buying from these people, but I can't figure out why, if they are totally legit, none of this basic information is publicly available.

I've seen this before and it doesn't normally turn out well, so I'm staying away from these people.

[DARKANGEL6415]

thats is so true but as annoying as it is or long the process it is still better than sending btc and being raped in the end. Im not saying thats the case here but just saying.

[Pentax]

thats is so true but as annoying as it is or long the process it is still better than sending btc and being raped in the end. Im not saying thats the case here but just saying.

for sure.  cover your ass if at all possible.

[XBTec]

Hello Xbtec

I am looking for your company registration in Hong Kong, but cannot find it.

Can you provide links to the proper documents.

Thank You.

Let me know your email, I'll send to you scan-copies of registration documents.

[XBTec]

has anyone been able to find the registration information for this company?

what country?  who is in charge, etc.

basically an annual report or similar document.

I've asked for it from Xbtec and get nothing.

How did you tried to find our company information? It is quite difficult task to find this information
I'll give to you  the prompt:  check footer of our website or first post of this thread

Registered address: Company name: MICRO ASIA COMPANY LIMITED
Company Address: ROOM 1103, HANG SENG MONGKOK BUILDING, 677 NATHAN ROAD,
MONGKOK, KOWLOON HONGKONG

[Pentax]

has anyone been able to find the registration information for this company?

what country?  who is in charge, etc.

basically an annual report or similar document.

I've asked for it from Xbtec and get nothing.

How did you tried to find our company information? It is quite difficult task to find this information
I'll give to you  the prompt:  check footer of our website or first post of this thread

Registered address: Company name: MICRO ASIA COMPANY LIMITED
Company Address: ROOM 1103, HANG SENG MONGKOK BUILDING, 677 NATHAN ROAD,
MONGKOK, KOWLOON HONGKONG

Yes, I tried using XBtec.  I did find Micro Asia Company Ltc eventually, but nothing on who the directors are.

Thank you.

[dogie]

This company's rating has been updated in the Manufacturer Trustworthiness thread.

[This message won't be monitored, discuss your concerns in the thread.]

[DARKANGEL6415]

if this company is real and all i wonder if i would even be able to get anything i am in the usa and with sanctions on russia not sure if it would apply to this product

[Collider]

if this company is real and all i wonder if i would even be able to get anything i am in the usa and with sanctions on russia not sure if it would apply to this product

Please tell me how sanctions on a completely different country hinder you from buying anything from China....

[dogie]

if this company is real and all i wonder if i would even be able to get anything i am in the usa and with sanctions on russia not sure if it would apply to this product

Please tell me how sanctions on a completely different country hinder you from buying anything from China....

Its a Russian team working from CN, he thought they were in Russia. Even if they were, the sanctions are only on food products and state oil for now.

[DARKANGEL6415]

if this company is real and all i wonder if i would even be able to get anything i am in the usa and with sanctions on russia not sure if it would apply to this product

Please tell me how sanctions on a completely different country hinder you from buying anything from China....

Its a Russian team working from CN, he thought they were in Russia. Even if they were, the sanctions are only on food products and state oil for now.

Thank you doggie for understanding my question and answering

[Biffa]

Has anyone except dogie recieved one of these?

[DARKANGEL6415]

I have not seen anyone mention sale or receiving this units other than doggie and what he got i do think was a prototype unit to test out and show that it is real for people here in the forum. Last i knew he got unit  but had to wait for some software or controller dont recall. If anyone else does have experience with this company please post but not like a new created account please for obious reasons lol 

[whalezy]

Good to see you finally made it!

[Biffa]

Good to see you finally made it!

Good to see who finally made what?

[DARKANGEL6415]

i was wondering the same thing he is not quating anyone and is just kind of a plain statement so please feel free to tell us what you mean or who or what you talking about thanks

[aclass]

from the post in the russian forum one can tell that these are quite late. like 2-3 months late already.
the consensus from now is to wain until 10th of Oct and act accordingly

[dogie]

from the post in the russian forum one can tell that these are quite late. like 2-3 months late already.
the consensus from now is to wain until 10th of Oct and act accordingly

If you bothered to read all the posts in that forum, you'll see that they WERE quite late. And those customers were also compensated with double their ordered hash rate and were happy.

[aclass]

I did ... All the way to the 12th page

B oбщeм я тaк дyмaю, чтo ecли 10-oгo чиcлa вce пoвтopитcя - тo вce, чтo oни гoвopили пo тeлeфoнy - тe пpeдлoжeния, кoтopыe oни пpeдлaгaют зaвeдoмo знaя, чтo нa ниx пoкyпaшкa нe пoдпишeтcя. B oбщeм y мeня вoт тaкoe двoякoe чyвcтвo cлoжилocь. - кyчa вapиaнтoв, нo caмый paциoнaльный - ждaть 10-oгo, ocтaльныe вapиaнты oзвyчивaлиcь зaвeдoмo пoнимaя, чтo oни никoмy нe нyжны. 10-e чиcлo пoкaжeт. - мacлo мacляннoe. нo, дyмaю - cмыcл был пoнят

Bce вpeмя гoвopили ecли нaдo вoвзpaт пpишлитe нaм oтcкaниpoвaннoe зaявлeниe, пpиcлaл, cpaзy нaпиcaли  нaxep нaм  вaшe oтcкaниpoвaннoe, дaвaйтe нaм пиcьмeнный opигинaл oпять дypят нaм гoлoвы :-))

These two clearly state that they are NOT happy with the current situation. One will wait till 10th and the other, besides the fact that he already wrote to the russian FTC, tried to request a refund and got send to beat the bush a bit.

I understand that you are trying to defend the company, but the current situation is this... The company is late with delivery and postponed numerous times. All this from russians, who bought from the russian company and not directly from China.

from the post in the russian forum one can tell that these are quite late. like 2-3 months late already.
the consensus from now is to wain until 10th of Oct and act accordingly

If you bothered to read all the posts in that forum, you'll see that they WERE quite late. And those customers were also compensated with double their ordered hash rate and were happy.

[notbatman]

from the post in the russian forum one can tell that these are quite late. like 2-3 months late already.
the consensus from now is to wain until 10th of Oct and act accordingly

If you bothered to read all the posts in that forum, you'll see that they WERE quite late. And those customers were also compensated with double their ordered hash rate and were happy.

Black Arrow who are/were affiliated with this company (and I have spam in my inbox to prove it) used promised compensation to string customers along.

Have they actually delivered the consumer version of their miner to anybody or are they just populating their data centre using customer funds?

Also what's Alexey Andreev's relationship with XBTec?

[chitolsp]

this is SCAM right?

[btmtb]

this is SCAM right?

I'm still waiting for a satisfactory explanation from the data-theft situation at the start of this thing.

[dogie]

This company's rating has been updated in the Manufacturer Trustworthiness thread.

[This message won't be monitored, discuss your concerns in the thread.]

[Gologuzan]

one upon a time....
but this is not a fairytale.
i had couple btc extra and decided to try this company. especially bitmain started with shipping fees. 
so i have contacted this company  here, and we moved to skype. after all aspects of deal were clear and known to each other, i have sent btc directly to a company. i know that that is not a brightest thing to do ( yours truly was one of avalonshenzen customers), but i have sent btc anyway. and after couple days i have got trasking number and after that unit came in my possession.

let me remind you that this is 20 kilos of mining equipment. watch your back.
when i have took package from UPS, i noticed some sounds of loosen parts inside. so i decided first to open up unit and check everything.
i have opened package and notices that someone (UPS) dropped my miner on one corner. force was so intense that one of the corners was almost  totally bent.

there was no any bigger dmg on the outside of a miner. so i started with unscrewing the top lid to see what  happened in the inside.
under the lid there is specially designed metal bar that holds hashing boards in place. but even with that and top lid that is been held with 12 screws, some boards popped out from place.

and rPi got disconnected from backplane. and some capacitors were ripped from hash boards.
reconnected rPi and took out those damaged boards. there were 2in total.

so finally i was getting ready to fire up pacific 1250 for a first time.

when i connected it to a power grid, it started running. there is no on/off switch. those 3 switches that you have at PSU unit are just for fans speed. when  they are at 0 position, fans are working on half speed. and on I position they are on full speed.

so now i had to set up miner.

setting up things from browser was easy, but that was not enough. i managed to change pool. and that is it.
so after that i went to putty and changed informations there. after 10 mins of putty i have managed to make V1 to start hashing.
mostly because i have no prior knowledge of linux.

after fixing those hash boards, miner is working on average on 1.35tera.

miner as it is, is solid build and it is working.

i have first went to browser and added my pool,and after that deleted prev one.
next
vent to putty and there checked if my pool is active, then checked miner network configuration, and checked gateway.

putty files that you need to CHECK are
http://prntscr.com/50p4up but once again all of them you need to check, and some you need to change.

but the best part of purchase is tech support.

one of techs was with me all the time while i was opening it,
and before that hey were online almost 24/7 to help me with  customs duties and papers.

so for me one good company with good quality products.

anyway i am ordering 2xV2 units now. and i will send my money in front again.

i am not telling that you should do that with your money.
i am just telling that if you wana buy some good quality gear with some quality support, this company is good spot.

like bitmain before shipping fiasco,
and best tech support there is. they have to sleep, but they have not missed to replay even one of my messages. instantly or when they get online.

and for me good support is equally important as good product.

i am here for any questions that you might have.

[dogie]

under the lid there is specially designed metal bar that holds hashing boards in place. but even with that and top lid that is been held with 12 screws, some boards popped out from place.

Its a known problem and was fixed in V2, when I sent my V1 out I had to put foam wedges either side of the modules to make sure they couldn't shift laterally in their slots and break through the end of the plastic slot.

[XBTec]

It was a painful experience.
Now, to protect equipment from the damage during shipping we put the protective foamed film.
Our friend's factory made customized cartoon boxes with protective soft material inside.

Its measures will definitely prevent shipments from the damages

[notbatman]

So XBTec shipped product in a reasonable time frame as per the agreed upon price?

I would tend to believe that Black Arrow did in fact sell my e-mail as a potential future mining hardware buyer to XBTec. Good work on distancing yourself from that scam company and actually delivering hardware guys.

This of course assumes that you guys aren't secretly BA trying to re-build a reputable company to pull off their next big scam. I'll give you the benifit of the doubt however. 

[bradli]

For me they are correct. If I have any questions and problems they always respond and help.

[Pentax]

So XBTec shipped product in a reasonable time frame as per the agreed upon price?

I would tend to believe that Black Arrow did in fact sell my e-mail as a potential future mining hardware buyer to XBTec. Good work on distancing yourself from that scam company and actually delivering hardware guys.

This of course assumes that you guys aren't secretly BA trying to re-build a reputable company to pull off their next big scam. I'll give you the benifit of the doubt however. 

The could post who the officers and investors of this company are.

I've asked for that info and nada.

something is odd about that whole data theft, transfer or whatever people want to call it.

somehow it seems they got their hands on BA's customer database.

Black Arrow says it was stolen.   

what does Xbtec have to say about how they acquired that information?

[dogie]

Black Arrow says it was stolen.   

what does Xbtec have to say about how they acquired that information?

XBTec says Blackarrow sold it, which I believe seeing as there has been zero legal action and Blackarrow was in dire need of money. IIRC minersource said it was stolen, not Blackarrow?

[Pentax]

Black Arrow says it was stolen.   

what does Xbtec have to say about how they acquired that information?

XBTec says Blackarrow sold it, which I believe seeing as there has been zero legal action and Blackarrow was in dire need of money. IIRC minersource said it was stolen, not Blackarrow?

nope.  Blackarrow claims to have filed a police report. 


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197.msg8731367#msg8731367

"We have reported them to Shenzhen police. We did not had time to go to Hong Kong to report them yet, but we will."


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197.msg8731830#msg8731830

this ^^^ post purports to show an online complaint being filed with the Hong Kong police.




seeing as I believe nothing Black Arrow says at this point I'd like to know what Xbtec's version of this is. 

[notbatman]

Seeing that they actually deliver product spam from XBTec is the least of my worries.

As for Black Arrow I would like to see a refund or, my miner delivered ($5k worth) or, the company shuttered. It's unacceptable that they remain in business after committing fraud on such a large scale.

[Pentax]

Seeing that they actually deliver product spam from XBTec is the least of my worries.

As for Black Arrow I would like to see a refund or, my miner delivered ($5k worth) or, the company shuttered. It's unacceptable that they remain in business after committing fraud on such a large scale.

One is supposedly accusing the other of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

The other is supposedly being accused of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

I find that more than a little strange on both ends of that equation.

[dogie]

Seeing that they actually deliver product spam from XBTec is the least of my worries.

As for Black Arrow I would like to see a refund or, my miner delivered ($5k worth) or, the company shuttered. It's unacceptable that they remain in business after committing fraud on such a large scale.

One is supposedly accusing the other of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

The other is supposedly being accused of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

I find that more than a little strange on both ends of that equation.

XBTec wholeheartedly denied it at the time, said they bought it etc etc. It might be in this or the scam accusation thread but I don't have time to dig.

[DebitMe]

Seeing that they actually deliver product spam from XBTec is the least of my worries.

As for Black Arrow I would like to see a refund or, my miner delivered ($5k worth) or, the company shuttered. It's unacceptable that they remain in business after committing fraud on such a large scale.

One is supposedly accusing the other of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

The other is supposedly being accused of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

I find that more than a little strange on both ends of that equation.

This whole email list theft/sale seems really fishy to me.  Not sure what the answer is, but I find it a little to convenient that these "separate" companies are so close to each other geographically.  I am more of the belief that they are the same company and BA is the branch that attempts to create a chip and miners (miserably) and XBtec is the branch that uses other chips and makes miners.

Actually the more I think about it, BA claims theft, and that this company is just a few blocks away.  Forget the police, walk your ass over there and confront them BA, the fact that they didn't even do that is astounding and eye opening.

[dogie]

Seeing that they actually deliver product spam from XBTec is the least of my worries.

As for Black Arrow I would like to see a refund or, my miner delivered ($5k worth) or, the company shuttered. It's unacceptable that they remain in business after committing fraud on such a large scale.

One is supposedly accusing the other of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

The other is supposedly being accused of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

I find that more than a little strange on both ends of that equation.

This whole email list theft/sale seems really fishy to me.  Not sure what the answer is, but I find it a little to convenient that these "separate" companies are so close to each other geographically.  I am more of the belief that they are the same company and BA is the branch that attempts to create a chip and miners (miserably) and XBtec is the branch that uses other chips and makes miners.

Actually the more I think about it, BA claims theft, and that this company is just a few blocks away.  Forget the police, walk your ass over there and confront them BA, the fact that they didn't even do that is astounding and eye opening.

Definitely not the same company, at all. I've talked with both and one set is part Russian on origin and one isn't. I'm sure if you plotted all the ASIC companies on the map, SZ would be glowing like crazy. Its like a silicon valley for manufacturing over there.

[Pentax]

Seeing that they actually deliver product spam from XBTec is the least of my worries.

As for Black Arrow I would like to see a refund or, my miner delivered ($5k worth) or, the company shuttered. It's unacceptable that they remain in business after committing fraud on such a large scale.

One is supposedly accusing the other of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

The other is supposedly being accused of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

I find that more than a little strange on both ends of that equation.

This whole email list theft/sale seems really fishy to me.  Not sure what the answer is, but I find it a little to convenient that these "separate" companies are so close to each other geographically.  I am more of the belief that they are the same company and BA is the branch that attempts to create a chip and miners (miserably) and XBtec is the branch that uses other chips and makes miners.

Actually the more I think about it, BA claims theft, and that this company is just a few blocks away.  Forget the police, walk your ass over there and confront them BA, the fact that they didn't even do that is astounding and eye opening.

yep.  it's seemingly clear that XBTec has the info.   Nobody disputes that.

they're competitors, supposedly.  

where is the civil suit if it was stolen.   if they need money so badly there it is.  

XBTec says they bought it.  Dogie says they said so in this thread, although I'm not digging through it either to verify that.  you'd think they'd be pretty pissed about being accused of theft if they paid good money for something.  Whether or not it was legal to sell or buy is another matter.

There is something very fishy about the whole thing.  Someone has the clear upper hand.  It is easily provable and they know it, yet they are not acting, if for no other reason than to stick a dagger in a supposed competitor.  It does not make sense.

[Pentax]

Seeing that they actually deliver product spam from XBTec is the least of my worries.

As for Black Arrow I would like to see a refund or, my miner delivered ($5k worth) or, the company shuttered. It's unacceptable that they remain in business after committing fraud on such a large scale.

One is supposedly accusing the other of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

The other is supposedly being accused of theft, but doesn't seem all that concerned about it, really.

I find that more than a little strange on both ends of that equation.

This whole email list theft/sale seems really fishy to me.  Not sure what the answer is, but I find it a little to convenient that these "separate" companies are so close to each other geographically.  I am more of the belief that they are the same company and BA is the branch that attempts to create a chip and miners (miserably) and XBtec is the branch that uses other chips and makes miners.

Actually the more I think about it, BA claims theft, and that this company is just a few blocks away.  Forget the police, walk your ass over there and confront them BA, the fact that they didn't even do that is astounding and eye opening.

Definitely not the same company, at all. I've talked with both and one set is part Russian on origin and one isn't. I'm sure if you plotted all the ASIC companies on the map, SZ would be glowing like crazy. Its like a silicon valley for manufacturing over there.

BA has people in Russia also. One of their forum mods is an engineer and based in Moscow also.   

[XBTec]

I'm so tired with explanation about BA data base.
Why ask ours so many times to disclosure details of the deal??
We clearly said few times - we won't disclose any information.

We still awaiting police and rummage at our office
If somebody doesn't satisfied - welcome to court.

[DebitMe]

I'm so tired with explanation about BA data base.
Why ask ours so many times to disclosure details of the deal??
We clearly said few times - we won't disclose any information.

We still awaiting police and rummage at our office
If somebody doesn't satisfied - welcome to court.

You can be as tired as you want about it.  They have said you stole it and are calling you liars, that doesn't seem to phase you a whole lot which is pretty damn suspicious for both parties.  They have also allegedly opened  a police case against you and you still refuse to provide any proof that what you say is true.

I have no idea who is telling the truth, which means, both of you are currently suspicious and can be assumed are doing some nefarious.

[dogie]

They have said you stole it and are calling you liars...

Do remember though that there's a pretty significant interest for BA in that. If BA did sell it then they're in breach of their own privacy policy and will get sued / fined to hell. By accusing a theft they muddy the waters and potentially anyone going after them. While retaining the cash / benefit of the transaction.

[DebitMe]

They have said you stole it and are calling you liars...

Do remember though that there's a pretty significant interest for BA in that. If BA did sell it then they're in breach of their own privacy policy and will get sued / fined to hell. By accusing a theft they muddy the waters and potentially anyone going after them. While retaining the cash / benefit of the transaction.

That's very true, and your correct there Dogie, but what is XbTec's reasoning for hiding all evidence to the contrary?  XBtec knows they are a competitor, so unless they are in bed together, putting a competitor out of business is a very smart choice.

[notbatman]

They have said you stole it and are calling you liars...

Do remember though that there's a pretty significant interest for BA in that. If BA did sell it then they're in breach of their own privacy policy and will get sued / fined to hell. By accusing a theft they muddy the waters and potentially anyone going after them. While retaining the cash / benefit of the transaction.

I'm not sure how exactly one goes about suing them. There's an office/factory in China Shenzhen run by Russian Engineer Alexey Andreev (goes by handle Nemesidis on their forum), office/bank in China HK, CFO in UK "City of London" Daniel Andronic, CEO/office(Destro)/bank in UK Reading Alexandru Sovu (user blackarrow also goes by Alex Berk), reseller Logic Ethos somewhere in the UK run by a guy named Stuart (user flappysocks) and, an office(Merlion) in the Virgin Islands. Add in a girl named Silvia who answers the phone & reads the e-mails, some kid named David (user david105396) in the Netherlands who serves coffee, a US reseller in Colorado named Minersource run by Matt Carson (user Bobsag3) and Dan Murtha and has since changed its company name to Miner Hosting. Alex S. and Dan A. are Romanian and are probably constructing a Gypsy palace there right now with my money.

[Pentax]

I'm so tired with explanation about BA data base.
Why ask ours so many times to disclosure details of the deal??
We clearly said few times - we won't disclose any information.

We still awaiting police and rummage at our office
If somebody doesn't satisfied - welcome to court.

If you're so sick of this why won't you disclose information?  Proof will stop this for you.

Will you make a statement to the police that you did buy it and provide the evidence to the police then to support that?

[Gologuzan]

I'm so tired with explanation about BA data base.
Why ask ours so many times to disclosure details of the deal??
We clearly said few times - we won't disclose any information.

We still awaiting police and rummage at our office
If somebody doesn't satisfied - welcome to court.

If you're so sick of this why won't you disclose information?  Proof will stop this for you.

Will you make a statement to the police that you did buy it and provide the evidence to the police then to support that?

i am looking on that from another point. if I have not stole anything, and someone accuse me, i would not give a 5 dimes on his accusation.
but
if i have not stole anything and he raise a charge in court, then i would take everything he has since he has false accused me.
and
if i did stole something, i would run as hell, just not to be cough with hot potato in hands.

so as long as other party member is having more important job then to report case to police, i think that there is no case.

[notbatman]

Just for the record I don't really care about the spam; it seems xbtec was just looking sell actual hardware to people who've paid for hardware in the past. They actually delivered hardware in a reasonable time-frame and are not just scammers pocketing customer money like BA.

Look at what BA has done and said to date and I'll believe this companies word over BA any day if turns out there's no relationship between the two companies anymore.

[bradli]

Wnen i purchase mashine i recieved on time . They were correct.

[Pentax]

I'm so tired with explanation about BA data base.
Why ask ours so many times to disclosure details of the deal??
We clearly said few times - we won't disclose any information.

We still awaiting police and rummage at our office
If somebody doesn't satisfied - welcome to court.

If you're so sick of this why won't you disclose information?  Proof will stop this for you.

Will you make a statement to the police that you did buy it and provide the evidence to the police then to support that?

i am looking on that from another point. if I have not stole anything, and someone accuse me, i would not give a 5 dimes on his accusation.
but
if i have not stole anything and he raise a charge in court, then i would take everything he has since he has false accused me.
and
if i did stole something, i would run as hell, just not to be cough with hot potato in hands.

so as long as other party member is having more important job then to report case to police, i think that there is no case.

True.  Black Arrow says they have filed a police report.  This of course could be a lie.

They have publicly accused XBTec of possessing a stolen database.  If this is untrue they could easily be sued for libel/slander or who knows what else. 

either case is easy to prove.  someone should be suing someone unless they are cooperating in some way.

[dogie]

If this is untrue they could easily be sued for libel/slander or who knows what else. Either case is easy to prove.  someone should be suing someone unless they are cooperating in some way.

You don't sue if there is no chance of collection, and/or the damages don't exceed the costs of bringing action.

[Bicknellski]

If this is untrue they could easily be sued for libel/slander or who knows what else. Either case is easy to prove.  someone should be suing someone unless they are cooperating in some way.

You don't sue if there is no chance of collection, and/or the damages don't exceed the costs of bringing action.

You sue or report to the authorities to stop fraud. That is what the system is for. Best way to RECOUP you cash?

READ BEFORE YOU BUY. Any hint of fraud... run. There are well known sellers that have items in stock. Buy there if at all.

[Pentax]

If this is untrue they could easily be sued for libel/slander or who knows what else. Either case is easy to prove.  someone should be suing someone unless they are cooperating in some way.

You don't sue if there is no chance of collection, and/or the damages don't exceed the costs of bringing action.

Sure you do.  If they are a competitor that has sold you something and is now accusing you of theft of what they sold you the first thing you do is pick up your phone and call your attorney.

Besides, who says there is no chance of collection.   BA claims to be broke, but it also claims to be hiring people, developing new chips and running around sponsoring conferences.  They cry poor, but it's likely nothing more than bullshit so they can screw people out of the refunds they promised them would be sent in May, but are now being denied.  If you look at the project they had a problem with the chip and had to go back for that and have had numerous problems since, although it hasn't added up to a ton more cost for them as they are not even doing the assembly themselves, so it's not like they have a factory full of people that they've been paying for all of this time and it is not as if they had to have components built 2 or 3 times.  Probably should have, as their stuff is still burning up, but that's another matter. 

Bringing an action would be fairly low in terms of cost, and if BA is in the wrong they would without doubt settle out of court for some amount plus costs, if for no other reason than to prevent their own bills from pumping up in an indefensible situation, so we're looking at a few thousand dollars to get a formal action started and very likely coming out ahead.   I don't know what the laws are there, but in the US this would very likely be subject to a punitive and/or triple damages award, as if this claim of theft is false, they did it knowing it was untrue, and thus it rises beyond negligence to willful violation of the law, which is then subject to damages beyond simple compensatory damages.

And it costs nothing to file a police report.  You can do it online in Hong Kong for nothing.  BA claims to have done exactly that with respect to what they claim is a theft.

[XBTec]

XBTec Pacific V3

Hashrate: 3.2Th/s
Power consumption from the wall: 2500 Watt, 0,79 Watt/Gh
Chipset: AM BE 200
2 customized PSUs
Controller board
Ethernet connection
Working stand-alone
Dimensions: 4U rack mountable aluminum case
Weight: 18kg

~30 units in stock

[kingboban]

Hello
Guys i need help
I need a download a image of operatin system for XBTEC Pacific 1250,my SD card is dead
Please help

[dogie]

This company's rating has been updated in the Manufacturer Trustworthiness thread.

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